Weight training regularity?
Replies
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Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?0 -
Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Thats complete BS. Where are you pulling this garbage from? The body requires rest either if its adequate sleep or just a damn day off. Kind of funny coming from someone with no photo while the rest of us show physique. So, who's this 20+ years you've got? An internet blog?
First, I never said that no one should ever take a day off. I said that he should do as much as he feels that he is capable of, and if that happens to be twice a day, seven days per week, so be it. Reading comprehension ftw.
Second, as to where I am pulling this garbage from: feel free to check out this article http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/04/accessories-to-murder-2-greats-get-dead.html Keep in mind that only two of the lifters mentioned there has been in the last 20 years, and Magnusson and Konstantin get massive respect from me for being the most recent strength monsters of our time.
Third, I'll post pictures when they are worth looking at, as I will be the first person to admit that I am still a total ****ing fatass after years of allowing myself to suck at everything except for work (which consists of me being in a truck for 12 hours at a time) and video games (which obviously don't do much to up the physique either).
You're all talk mate. You're one of those people who does 'two months' of weight lifting and then thinks he knows it all, coming out with sound bites about how far to push yourself or KNOW NO LIMITS. Come back when you've done it for a year, two years, five years, twenty years.0 -
First, nothing I have noted is directly from his blog, except for the articles which I have linked, which if you care to look at my history, you will see it's been quite a few. Some I didn't specifically link, but I instructed them on how to find what they were looking for. This was usually the case with his Predator diet stuff, as there are so damned many individual articles, that it would be obnoxious to post all of them at one time.
Second, I agree completely with what you were saying about the work ethic and capacity. However, the OP of this thread is actually obviously very motivated, and appears to have the physical ability to keep pushing himself. The last thing he needs is a bunch of MFPers telling him that he's doing too much, and to take it easy. That's how seeds of doubt get planted, and the next thing you know, he'll be one of those people blaming a ****ty day of lifting on 'overtraining', and it's all downhill from there.
I didn't start getting ****ish in this thread until people started coming up with a bunch of horse**** backed by nothing other than speculation and some badly sourced crap from whatever lifting site they may subscribe to.
You'll note in my post I actually suggested upping the intensity of the workout, but in a smart, incremental way. You can't know what physical ability someone has from one post, or the 7 other posts made on this site. You didn't ask ANY of the pertinent questions, you just pushed your own perspective without regard for how it might work for others (which, by the way, is speculation from whatever lifting site you might subscribe to). THAT is why I raised contention with your credentials.
At two months of training you've also likely never dealt with a lifting injury (or multiple injuries) and if you have certainly haven't had to work around it for months at a time.
What do you lift?0 -
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
♥0 -
Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
Let's see: the fact that I have already pulled more in two months than many people do in their first six, when following Rip and Wendler's programs. The fact that I have been constantly dropping weight WHILE making said leaps and bounds in lifts. The fact that everyone that I have managed to convince to stop being a total wuss has seen more increases in their gains in the two months of working along side me than they had with their previous experience, which of course varies between the individuals. I'll see if I can convince a couple of the guys from the gym to get on here to validate the last claim, but I actually caught a bunch of **** from them about being on here in the first place, so it's unlikely. Worth a shot though.
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.0 -
Haha!!! You sound like my trainer!!!! His favorite line is "there's no such thing as overtraining, just under eating." LolThanks, if I'm honest I was hoping for a reply along those lines although I was genuinely concerned about inadvertantly burning out my body. Back to the gym this arvo then!
My response and advice comes with a condition: every time someone says the word 'overtraining' to you, I need you to punch them in the mouth, and tell them to stop sucking at life.
Enjoy your workout.
To say "there's no such thing as over-training" is to tell a big, fat lie! :laugh:
To the OP, 2-3 days a week is perfect in my opinion. The author of NROL suggests a lifting routine of 3 days a week as optimal and two days a week as "enough." Cardio 3 times a week is also optimal for most people. But do listen to your body and be sure that your doctor is aware of your routine. :flowerforyou:0 -
Second, I agree completely with what you were saying about the work ethic and capacity. However, the OP of this thread is actually obviously very motivated, and appears to have the physical ability to keep pushing himself. The last thing he needs is a bunch of MFPers telling him that he's doing too much, and to take it easy. That's how seeds of doubt get planted, and the next thing you know, he'll be one of those people blaming a ****ty day of lifting on 'overtraining', and it's all downhill from there.
I think you will find that the OP is a SHE ; )0 -
Second, I agree completely with what you were saying about the work ethic and capacity. However, the OP of this thread is actually obviously very motivated, and appears to have the physical ability to keep pushing himself. The last thing he needs is a bunch of MFPers telling him that he's doing too much, and to take it easy. That's how seeds of doubt get planted, and the next thing you know, he'll be one of those people blaming a ****ty day of lifting on 'overtraining', and it's all downhill from there.
I think you will find that the OP is a SHE ; )
Oops, sorry about that. Hehe. I haven't looked at the OP since I was at work, and that was on my phone, so of course the pictures are so damned small, that I can't make much of anything out, other than the shape of a head, if one is present.0 -
Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
Let's see: the fact that I have already pulled more in two months than many people do in their first six, when following Rip and Wendler's programs. The fact that I have been constantly dropping weight WHILE making said leaps and bounds in lifts. The fact that everyone that I have managed to convince to stop being a total wuss has seen more increases in their gains in the two months of working along side me than they had with their previous experience, which of course varies between the individuals. I'll see if I can convince a couple of the guys from the gym to get on here to validate the last claim, but I actually caught a bunch of **** from them about being on here in the first place, so it's unlikely. Worth a shot though.
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Those increases being what exactly?
And anyone can get good results gaining strength and losing fat in the first 2 months. Someone could probably get results just shaking *kitten* on a stick at that point.0 -
Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
Let's see: the fact that I have already pulled more in two months than many people do in their first six, when following Rip and Wendler's programs. The fact that I have been constantly dropping weight WHILE making said leaps and bounds in lifts. The fact that everyone that I have managed to convince to stop being a total wuss has seen more increases in their gains in the two months of working along side me than they had with their previous experience, which of course varies between the individuals. I'll see if I can convince a couple of the guys from the gym to get on here to validate the last claim, but I actually caught a bunch of **** from them about being on here in the first place, so it's unlikely. Worth a shot though.
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Those increases being what exactly?
When I first started, I was barely able to squat 115, plus the weight of my fat *kitten*. Currently, I can 3 rep at right around 285 before I start getting wobbly on my descent.
Deadlift was 135, currently pulling for one at 395. Deadlift is the lift out of the primaries that I am working most however, so that would explain it's vast improvement over the others. That said, I also have DL this afternoon, so I'll be interested to see how hard I can push it.
Bench was 75 at start, currently can five rep 195. Haven't tried for a new 1RM yet though, as I have little desire to end up pinned to the bench with no spotter like an idiot. Though, I probably should. Could just roll the bar to my lap and stand up with it.
Overhead press was the most pathetic at 75, and is currently at a 4 rep for 155.
Shrug (though obviously not a major lift) was 135 for 4, and now sits at 405 for 3. Obviously shrugs can get ridiculously heavy really fast anyway due to the short range of motion being pulled by a relatively huge muscle, much like calf raises.
ETA: the **** on a stick honestly gave me a good laugh, thanks for that. It's also entirely accurate. I am fully aware that I am still well under the noob gains phase. I'll just make sure to keep my progress honest. If I completely wreck myself doing this ****, I'll admit that I was wrong. However, if it goes the way I plan, I will thoroughly enjoy rubbing some faces in it.0 -
Hi all,
I was wondering whether it is ok to do 2-3 days of combined cardio and weight training in a row? I have scoliosis so I use the machines instead of free weights to maintain my posture and form, and do chest presses, shoulder presses, lat pull downs, seated rows, leg press, quad and hamstring curls, as well as 40 mins of cardio 4 - 5 times a week. The weights are in 3 sets of 10 reps, so the weight is not particularly high, just enough that I am struglling to press out the last couple of each set. I don't feel too sore or like I can't complete the workout, but I have heard it's good to have a rest in between "weights days". I love using the weights, it has made me feel so much stronger, but I don't want to cause any damage.
Sorry for the long post, any information or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
I have scoliosis too and I've had 2 spinal fusion surgeries. I don't limit myself at all in terms of exercise.0 -
Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
Let's see: the fact that I have already pulled more in two months than many people do in their first six, when following Rip and Wendler's programs. The fact that I have been constantly dropping weight WHILE making said leaps and bounds in lifts. The fact that everyone that I have managed to convince to stop being a total wuss has seen more increases in their gains in the two months of working along side me than they had with their previous experience, which of course varies between the individuals. I'll see if I can convince a couple of the guys from the gym to get on here to validate the last claim, but I actually caught a bunch of **** from them about being on here in the first place, so it's unlikely. Worth a shot though.
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Those increases being what exactly?
When I first started, I was barely able to squat 115, plus the weight of my fat *kitten*. Currently, I can 3 rep at right around 285 before I start getting wobbly on my descent.
Deadlift was 135, currently pulling for one at 395. Deadlift is the lift out of the primaries that I am working most however, so that would explain it's vast improvement over the others. That said, I also have DL this afternoon, so I'll be interested to see how hard I can push it.
Bench was 75 at start, currently can five rep 195. Haven't tried for a new 1RM yet though, as I have little desire to end up pinned to the bench with no spotter like an idiot. Though, I probably should. Could just roll the bar to my lap and stand up with it.
Overhead press was the most pathetic at 75, and is currently at a 4 rep for 155.
Shrug (though obviously not a major lift) was 135 for 4, and now sits at 405 for 3. Obviously shrugs can get ridiculously heavy really fast anyway due to the short range of motion being pulled by a relatively huge muscle, much like calf raises.
For 5 rep work sets Starting Strength would have you add 120lbs or more to squats and deadlifts in the first two months and 60lbs or more to bench and ohp in the first 2 months. Most likely when you started you were strong enough to lift a bit more than you were. I don't think you have really had way higher increases than an untrained person would on SS, Stronglifts, or any similar beginner strength routine.0 -
For 5 rep work sets Starting Strength would have you add 120lbs or more to squats and deadlifts in the first two months and 60lbs or more to bench and ohp in the first 2 months. Most likely when you started you were strong enough to lift a bit more than you were. I don't think you have really had way higher increases than an untrained person would on SS, Stronglifts, or any similar beginner strength routine.
That's entirely possible, given that I have had the "luxury" of carrying around a good bit of *kitten* for years, part of which while being in a manual labor job. That said, I have been in the 'physically idle for 24 hours per day' bracket for the last six years, when I was moved into my current driving position at the company I work for. Pair that with the fact that I literally did nothing after work but shower, eat (relatively little) and play video games, and I am amazed I wasn't an atrophied ball of mush when I first started. Hell, my first day in, I about blew chunks just from squatting that little bit of weight for two sets of five reps.0 -
I bet you are using a smith machine.Complete rubbish. There is a reason top lifters, fitness models and athletes talk about how important rest is. If your body has no time to recover, it will not progress.
I apologise in advance for feeding the troll.
There's also a reason that top lifters today are total crap compared to what they were a century ago, with VERY few exceptions. Care to explain that one?
Then why don't you follow your own advice and crush them?
I'm working on it. Only been under the iron for two months, but I've been fortunate enough to have the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience (and the most recent powerlifting record holder in the 181 class) to guide me past the early rookie mistakes. Yeah, I generally just come here passing along his philosophy to try to do the same thing for other people...but ya know...I can tell that the MFP collective (which to my knowledge contains zero record holders in anything) knows more than my 'mentor'.
So, let me get this right, when you say 'the guidance of someone with 20+ years of lifting experience" and that they are your 'mentor', what you really mean is that you have been following your interpretation of the blogs and articles of Jamie Lewis - not that he is actually your trainer?
And then you lay into people for using their knowledge from following the programming of other well regarded people in the industry such as Rippetoe (who according to you is an idiot) and Wendler (who you disagree with the deload weeks but are OK with generally - which is inconsistent with your philosophy as he only recommends up to a 4 day training week btw).
How exactly does that make you, who actually only has 2 months of lifting experience, any different than anyone else giving advice? Well, except for the fact that you have less actual lifting experience than most?
Let's see: the fact that I have already pulled more in two months than many people do in their first six, when following Rip and Wendler's programs. The fact that I have been constantly dropping weight WHILE making said leaps and bounds in lifts. The fact that everyone that I have managed to convince to stop being a total wuss has seen more increases in their gains in the two months of working along side me than they had with their previous experience, which of course varies between the individuals. I'll see if I can convince a couple of the guys from the gym to get on here to validate the last claim, but I actually caught a bunch of **** from them about being on here in the first place, so it's unlikely. Worth a shot though.
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Those increases being what exactly?
When I first started, I was barely able to squat 115, plus the weight of my fat *kitten*. Currently, I can 3 rep at right around 285 before I start getting wobbly on my descent.
Deadlift was 135, currently pulling for one at 395. Deadlift is the lift out of the primaries that I am working most however, so that would explain it's vast improvement over the others. That said, I also have DL this afternoon, so I'll be interested to see how hard I can push it.
Bench was 75 at start, currently can five rep 195. Haven't tried for a new 1RM yet though, as I have little desire to end up pinned to the bench with no spotter like an idiot. Though, I probably should. Could just roll the bar to my lap and stand up with it.
Overhead press was the most pathetic at 75, and is currently at a 4 rep for 155.
Shrug (though obviously not a major lift) was 135 for 4, and now sits at 405 for 3. Obviously shrugs can get ridiculously heavy really fast anyway due to the short range of motion being pulled by a relatively huge muscle, much like calf raises.
ETA: the **** on a stick honestly gave me a good laugh, thanks for that. It's also entirely accurate. I am fully aware that I am still well under the noob gains phase. I'll just make sure to keep my progress honest. If I completely wreck myself doing this ****, I'll admit that I was wrong. However, if it goes the way I plan, I will thoroughly enjoy rubbing some faces in it.0 -
I bet you are using a smith machine.
That was actually insulting. I wouldn't be caught dead under one of those things...besides, how the hell could you do a proper squat or deadlift using a Smith? I've never seen anyone who went in a perfectly straight line on either lift. The bench and OHP, yeah, I could get away with it, but no, that's not happening...ever.0 -
I bet you are using a smith machine.
Funny joke but unlikely0 -
I don't even know why I bother.
Those programs that are for weak folks who don't try hard enough? All designed by guys who are a lot stronger than you.
Hell, I'm stronger than you and I have more experience lifting than you do, but I still have the good sense to keep an open mind about other paradigms.
I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. A 395 pull (assuming good form, in your post on it you said it was 'sloppy' so hopefully that doesn't mean dry humping the bar up to your waist) in two months is impressive (your squat sucks though, it should be higher). I actually like some of what Jamie has to say (I don't follow his training paradigms because of my work schedule but I got a lot from his Predator diet). You have to recognize that what you're doing won't work for everybody though.
Saying "do as much as he feels that he is capable of" is fine. I respect that. But you need to temper that advice with a dose of realism.
What's wrong with starting on a 5x5 or a SS type program? Hell what's wrong with starting at 3 days a week with rest days between doing whatever and seeing how you feel? Nothing. The point is you start small and build from there. IF that workload is easy enough, THEN add more.
You talk about fast gains. You're a beginner. Gains are going to be fast no matter what. You're not breaking any records right now, and your progress will slow eventually. What are you going to do if you stop seeing results from JL's guidelines? What are your plans for when you get injured? According to JL if you aren't hurt in some way then you're either weak or aren't training hard enough. Do you have a plan for what to do when an injury does come? What will you do if your lifestyle changes and work or whatever gets in the way of lifting or sleeping the way you should for the program? Are you going to compete? What are you going to do when you show up to a meet and get dominated by some 'weak' cat who's been following 5-3-1 or whatever?
Different paradigms work for different people. That's what I respect most about Jamie Lewis, he states that right up front. You have to find what works for you.
You did say that, but then went on to talk down about differing styles of training used by others. Since you obviously haven't tried them yourself, that tells me that you're a sub-par lifter. JL has earned the right to be a bit of a dbag (that's debatable, but at least he calls himself as much) but that's part of his schtick and, as you said, he has 20 years of experience lifting and researching to back him up. You don't. You have two months of time lifting and a couple articles from a website.
I'd be more opinion to your thoughts if:
A) You had more respect for others who've been doing this a lot longer
or
You actually had a reasonable amount of time under your belt 0 -
Just make sure you feed your body what it needs. A lot of people getting into weight training forget that. They don't cool down, or let their muscles rest. They forget to feed their muscles. Avoid dairy, its so hard to digest after a workout- and all that blood needed to oxygenate your muscles after a work out, it's taking effort away. Plenty of dairy-free workout recovery shakes options (which is recommended to do a recovery shake within the hour of completing the workout). I typically SIP mine after a good shower and just meditate, and bask in the glory of my completed workout.0
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I don't even know why I bother.
Those programs that are for weak folks who don't try hard enough? All designed by guys who are a lot stronger than you.
Hell, I'm stronger than you and I have more experience lifting than you do, but I still have the good sense to keep an open mind about other paradigms.
I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. A 395 pull (assuming good form, in your post on it you said it was 'sloppy' so hopefully that doesn't mean dry humping the bar up to your waist) in two months is impressive (your squat sucks though, it should be higher). I actually like some of what Jamie has to say (I don't follow his training paradigms because of my work schedule but I got a lot from his Predator diet). You have to recognize that what you're doing won't work for everybody though.
Saying "do as much as he feels that he is capable of" is fine. I respect that. But you need to temper that advice with a dose of realism.
What's wrong with starting on a 5x5 or a SS type program? Hell what's wrong with starting at 3 days a week with rest days between doing whatever and seeing how you feel? Nothing. The point is you start small and build from there. IF that workload is easy enough, THEN add more.
You talk about fast gains. You're a beginner. Gains are going to be fast no matter what. You're not breaking any records right now, and your progress will slow eventually. What are you going to do if you stop seeing results from JL's guidelines? What are your plans for when you get injured? According to JL if you aren't hurt in some way then you're either weak or aren't training hard enough. Do you have a plan for what to do when an injury does come? What will you do if your lifestyle changes and work or whatever gets in the way of lifting or sleeping the way you should for the program? Are you going to compete? What are you going to do when you show up to a meet and get dominated by some 'weak' cat who's been following 5-3-1 or whatever?
Different paradigms work for different people. That's what I respect most about Jamie Lewis, he states that right up front. You have to find what works for you.
You did say that, but then went on to talk down about differing styles of training used by others. Since you obviously haven't tried them yourself, that tells me that you're a sub-par lifter. JL has earned the right to be a bit of a dbag (that's debatable, but at least he calls himself as much) but that's part of his schtick and, as you said, he has 20 years of experience lifting and researching to back him up. You don't. You have two months of time lifting and a couple articles from a website.
I'd be more opinion to your thoughts if:
A) You had more respect for others who've been doing this a lot longer
or You actually had a reasonable amount of time under your belt
First: by the deadlift being ugly, I meant it was a strain to pull it. It didn't go up as clean as I'd have liked, and I started stalling a bit about four inches from lockout, and my grip started to falter some. Nothing detrimental, as I was even able to walk it back to the pins, but it still wasn't the 'clean' pull I got used to.
Second: If the 'guidelines' start to fail, it means that I am not pushing hard enough, or I am not eating enough.
Third: When (not if) I get injured, I will have to find a way to work around that injury. Obviously, what I will have to do about that is dictated by which body part the injury occurs in.
Fourth: I have already addressed the work issue. It was a bit ****ish, but luckily, I can get away with it, because I am the first and only person to have had my particular job at my company, and every time I mention to them that I may leave, they bribe me into staying. So, basically I told my boss that the first time I miss a lift due to their stupidity, I am walking. Luckily, I can think of five companies within fifteen miles of me that would give me a same day hire (and have actually talked to three of them already).
Fifth: Yeah, I am all about people having different goals, that's fine. Like I said before, I didn't start acting like an *kitten* until people suddenly came in here talking about something that I have yet to see any real proof of existing. I think I pretty well explained why this was annoying, given the drive the OP obviously has. All I have to go on is personal experience, what I can learn from others who share my mentality, and those who I lift with. For ****'s sake, I have seen people on here tell people they were overtraining themselves after two weeks. It's ****ing sad that people actually believe that no one short of some roided up athlete can hit a hard lifting schedule.
Sixth: I would sure as hell hope you are stronger than I am, even though obviously diminishing returns means that I will eventually close the gap, while slowing down in progress myself.
Last: I don't expect to see fast gains forever. In fact, I am already starting to hit the stage where it's requiring a LOT more effort to get similar PRs every couple of weeks. The only difference is that I am not dropping my expectations for myself. Instead, I am increasing my workload. It's working thus far, and to be quite honest, until I tear something, I probably won't stop doing so. That goes back to the personal experience thing. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else will never know what I am capable of unless I push myself to the breaking point.0 -
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Im sorry, but you are telling her to do as much as she can instead of following the advice of people on the internet, yet you are one of those people on the internet right now... Doesn't make much sense. You also say " But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done."- yet that is exactly what you have been doing. You are ripping into people that have a different philosophy than you and saying they are completely wrong. If you want people to agree with you, back your information up with scientific studies and facts, and not just one person's blog. Don't forget, everything you read on the internet is not true, so just because one person says they do things a certain way and it works for them, doesn't necessarily mean they are telling the truth or the whole story. Its fine to tell people about something that works for you, but that doesn't mean it is right or true for everyone else.
To the OP, you know your own body better than anyone else. I lift every other day and have noticed major changes in just a few sessions. I like to take a break between heavy lifting sessions, but I will still do lighter stuff, such as squats etc. with body weight only. Good luck with your training!0 -
The point is you start small and build from there. IF that workload is easy enough, THEN add more.
^^^^ THIS!! Exactly this!0 -
That said, it still comes down to being a matter of what I said to the OP. Do as much as you feel like you can, instead of following the advice of people on the internet. Most of them suck compared to what they could be if they'd actually push themselves harder, instead of buying into crap. Some people are okay with being relatively weak as piss, and that's fine. But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done.
Im sorry, but you are telling her to do as much as she can instead of following the advice of people on the internet, yet you are one of those people on the internet right now... Doesn't make much sense. You also say " But those people shouldn't discourage those who actually want to improve, just because the method doesn't fit into how THEY think it should be done."- yet that is exactly what you have been doing. You are ripping into people that have a different philosophy than you and saying they are completely wrong. If you want people to agree with you, back your information up with scientific studies and facts, and not just one person's blog. Don't forget, everything you read on the internet is not true, so just because one person says they do things a certain way and it works for them, doesn't necessarily mean they are telling the truth or the whole story. Its fine to tell people about something that works for you, but that doesn't mean it is right or true for everyone else.
To the OP, you know your own body better than anyone else. I lift every other day and have noticed major changes in just a few sessions. I like to take a break between heavy lifting sessions, but I will still do lighter stuff, such as squats etc. with body weight only. Good luck with your training!
The difference is that what I said was actually in agreement with what the OP feels from their body, whereas the people I ripped into were not. My personal experience tells me that you can always push harder than you thought you could. This doesn't just apply to weight training, but most things in life. If some people are content with 'average', that's fine, but don't try to discourage someone who wants to do the best they possibly can, just because you are happy with the aforementioned things.
Have you ever noticed that, lately in society in general, we have a lot of people who are 'okay at this', and 'alright at that', but far fewer who are great at anything? Yeah, that's what I am trying to avoid. I've been one of the very best at everything I have done thus far (if you don't believe me, I'd be more than happy to give you my employer's phone number), simply by learning and pushing. That is what I stand behind. Bust your *kitten*, think about things, and don't relent until something breaks.0 -
Third: When (not if) I get injured, I will have to find a way to work around that injury. Obviously, what I will have to do about that is dictated by which body part the injury occurs in.
A "plan" to get injured makes as much sense as claiming that you can't possibly over-train. Better to plan to be safe rather than sorry. 0 -
Third: When (not if) I get injured, I will have to find a way to work around that injury. Obviously, what I will have to do about that is dictated by which body part the injury occurs in.
A "plan" to get injured makes as much sense as claiming that you can't possibly over-train. Better to plan to be safe rather than sorry.
Injuries happen in lifting. If they don't, you aren't lifting hard enough...or you are the most physically awesome specimen to ever grace the Earth, and something tells me that I am not that last one. Hehe.
Taking it easy might work for some, but it pisses me off to no end. 0 -
Third: When (not if) I get injured, I will have to find a way to work around that injury. Obviously, what I will have to do about that is dictated by which body part the injury occurs in.
A "plan" to get injured makes as much sense as claiming that you can't possibly over-train. Better to plan to be safe rather than sorry.
Injuries happen in lifting. If they don't, you aren't lifting hard enough...or you are the most physically awesome specimen to ever grace the Earth, and something tells me that I am not that last one. Hehe.
Taking it easy might work for some, but it pisses me off to no end.
Bad form and over-training are likely to help you out in that regard. Lots of lifters have not been injured. It isn't a contact sport. It's all on you. Be careful and be safe. :flowerforyou:0 -
Third: When (not if) I get injured, I will have to find a way to work around that injury. Obviously, what I will have to do about that is dictated by which body part the injury occurs in.
A "plan" to get injured makes as much sense as claiming that you can't possibly over-train. Better to plan to be safe rather than sorry.
Injuries happen in lifting. If they don't, you aren't lifting hard enough...or you are the most physically awesome specimen to ever grace the Earth, and something tells me that I am not that last one. Hehe.
Taking it easy might work for some, but it pisses me off to no end.
Except you only had this not taking it easy epiphany two months ago. Prior to that you were a lazy sod (your words, not mine) so perhaps you should limit the preaching.0 -
Except you only had this not taking it easy epiphany two months ago. Prior to that you were a lazy sod (your words, not mine) so perhaps you should limit the preaching.
You are correct in respect to lifting. However, if you read my last couple of posts, it isn't just about lifting. I have always attacked everything with this vigor in life. Everything from work, to random arguments, to political debates, on down to video games. Keep in mind also, that I did something rather similar years ago when I took up the manual labor job that I previously mentioned. I felt like death for weeks, but eventually I pushed through it. I chipped bones around my ankle, I was backed over by a truck (obviously it wasn't fatal), I shattered my hand, and not once did I miss a single day from work. Could I have? Easily, and I could have gotten paid like hell for it all too. However, that isn't me. I don't take the easy route in anything. In fact, I generally tend to make things harder than they probably have to be, because life...is...easy, which is another thing I am sure people would love to cry foul about.
Sadly, after getting promoted, about the only real pushing I could do in the employment was the fuel pedal in my truck, and the switches for my spraybar.0 -
Fifth: Yeah, I am all about people having different goals, that's fine. Like I said before, I didn't start acting like an *kitten* until people suddenly came in here talking about something that I have yet to see any real proof of existing. I think I pretty well explained why this was annoying, given the drive the OP obviously has. All I have to go on is personal experience, what I can learn from others who share my mentality, and those who I lift with. For ****'s sake, I have seen people on here tell people they were overtraining themselves after two weeks. It's ****ing sad that people actually believe that no one short of some roided up athlete can hit a hard lifting schedule.
This is my problem with what you're saying. You don't have experience!
And AGAIN: The OP has posted all of 10 times, how the hell do you know what drive/work capacity they're capable of???
You are right that some people jump to conclusions about things, or that a little bit of DOMS and it's 'omg I've fried my CNS and am going to have a heart attack from overtraining'. That doesn't mean that injuries can't occur from overtraining. It does happen. To think it doesn't is naive. Just because some folks suggested taking rest days doesn't mean they fall into that melodramatic category, either.
And lastly, and this is important: hitting a hard lifting schedul for 3 to 6 months is easy. Hitting it that way for 5-10 years is what separates the elite from everyone else. You think training balls out is what got Jamie his 1705? It's not. Training balls out CONSISTENTLY for decades is what did it. You talk about training hard like you're the only one who does it. Hate to break it to you, you aren't. You're 220 and you haven't even broken a grand yet. Come back to me at this time in 2020 (or hell, this time next year) and I'll give more weight to your comments. Come back when you're over 1600 and have actually had to struggle to increase weight on the bar.
You're talking like a tough guy but have nothing to show for it yet. You still haven't done anything special.0 -
It's simple, muscles need time to grow. Consider the fact that lifting weights, is tearing down your muscle fibers, and resting is rebuilding them to withstand a heavier workload next time. If you never rest, your muscles can never fully repair themselves, so all you're doing is tearing down your muscles and not rebuilding them.0
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Fifth: Yeah, I am all about people having different goals, that's fine. Like I said before, I didn't start acting like an *kitten* until people suddenly came in here talking about something that I have yet to see any real proof of existing. I think I pretty well explained why this was annoying, given the drive the OP obviously has. All I have to go on is personal experience, what I can learn from others who share my mentality, and those who I lift with. For ****'s sake, I have seen people on here tell people they were overtraining themselves after two weeks. It's ****ing sad that people actually believe that no one short of some roided up athlete can hit a hard lifting schedule.
This is my problem with what you're saying. You don't have experience!
And AGAIN: The OP has posted all of 10 times, how the hell do you know what drive/work capacity they're capable of???
You are right that some people jump to conclusions about things, or that a little bit of DOMS and it's 'omg I've fried my CNS and am going to have a heart attack from overtraining'. That doesn't mean that injuries can't occur from overtraining. It does happen. To think it doesn't is naive. Just because some folks suggested taking rest days doesn't mean they fall into that melodramatic category, either.
And lastly, and this is important: hitting a hard lifting schedul for 3 to 6 months is easy. Hitting it that way for 5-10 years is what separates the elite from everyone else. You think training balls out is what got Jamie his 1705? It's not. Training balls out CONSISTENTLY for decades is what did it. You talk about training hard like you're the only one who does it. Hate to break it to you, you aren't. You're 220 and you haven't even broken a grand yet. Come back to me at this time in 2020 (or hell, this time next year) and I'll give more weight to your comments. Come back when you're over 1600 and have actually had to struggle to increase weight on the bar.
You're talking like a tough guy but have nothing to show for it yet. You still haven't done anything special.
If I were the only one actually trying to see if I could break myself, I'd be disappointed beyond words.
As for my highlighted comments: they weren't meant to go hand in hand. I was actually referring to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15571428 with the 'proof of actually existing' part. 'Suggests' and 'definite' are two very important words to distinguish between. The personal experience part is admittedly very limited in this arena. As such, that's where the rest of that sentence comes in to play. I prefer to learn from those who have a '**** it, I am making this happen' mentality in every area of life as opposed to the 'nice and easy' crowd.
No, you're right, not only have I not done anything special, I am still downright ****ty for my weight, even after dropping 20+ pounds. I even acknowledged this in my very first PR post that I made. Am I okay with this? **** no! However, all I can do about it is to keep shoving and grinding for every extra push and pull I can manage. Taking it easy will not get me where I want to be, so it's a stupid mentality to get into early on, in my opinion. Will it hurt? Obviously. Will it kill me? Maybe. Is it worth it? Definitely.0
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