Jumping off of LiveStrong's sinking ship!

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  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    No, he was nice and thoughtful for those 9 months :)
  • shellyhef1
    shellyhef1 Posts: 33
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    Cancer doesn't mean a person is any different. Cancer is a sickness, as is high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. I think you are missing my point all the way around. In my opinion, Lance has sacrificed a lot of his personal time to help the people in the world who have been diagnosed with cancer. That has nothing to do with cycling. I am not concerned with his cycling. But I do think other things he has done, aside from his sport, has been very good and motivating.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    Cancer doesn't mean a person is any different. Cancer is a sickness, as is high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. I think you are missing my point all the way around. In my opinion, Lance has sacrificed a lot of his personal time to help the people in the world who have been diagnosed with cancer. That has nothing to do with cycling. I am not concerned with his cycling. But I do think other things he has done, aside from his sport, has been very good and motivating.

    No, i get your point. You're saying that no matter how bad of a person you are and no matter how self-serving your motivation for doing something nice might be, it doesn’t undo the nice gesture. In way yes, you are right. But I don’t want to eat a piece of cake make by a chef that only wishes to make money or notoriety for himself. I want to eat the cake made by a chef that cooks for the love of cooking and the love of his audience. Do you get what I'm saying now?

    And I dont think you have at all grasped the depth of his disgusting behavior. This is a man that HIRED PEOPLE to talk nice about him and get him alligned w/ obama. And why? Do pad his wallet. You are really picking the wrong person to fight for here. Yes he did something things for cancer research and raising money for cancer...whatever...i'll give you that. But to say that his actions have been MOTIVATING? Nothing could be furhter for the truth. There is NOTHING motivating about doing nice things simply to elevate yourself or make yourself money.
  • shellyhef1
    shellyhef1 Posts: 33
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    Oh wait, you forgot..I am not here to fight. This is a message board. Not a fight board. I was just simply stating my opinion about something. (Which most people here are okay with, without saying things like "you don't know who you're picking a fight with").

    Good luck on your weight loss journey, and welcome to MFP!
  • future_rockstar
    future_rockstar Posts: 711 Member
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    Lance may have cheated in cycling but he got this Livestrong thing right. It's a shame it will probably die off.

    I agree with you completely on this. Funny though how there's nobody in the sport to give his titles to.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    "you don't know who you're picking a fight with"

    Who said that?

    I didnt say that. I said you are picking the wrong person to fight FOR (armstrong), not WITH (me)
  • SopranogirlCa
    SopranogirlCa Posts: 188 Member
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    So peolpe are saying that it is possible he got cancer because he used drugs. Not sure where they get that. Perhaps it is because several athletes have died in the last couple of years (track, football, hockey....) they are wondering if there is link. Either way, it's a nasty story, this Lance business. It's a shame
  • gazelleintraining
    gazelleintraining Posts: 107
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    I dig what ur sayin Gazelle. If everyone is cheating, the playing field is by default leveled. But still...I personally couldnt sleep at night if i knew i was cheating...even if everyone else was. It would feel way more proud beating a bunch of cheaters, not stooping to their level.

    I know, it kind of sucks for everyone else, doesn't it? Believe it or not, I see this same argument in a slightly different way in the tech circles I roll in: If you could artificially enhance your mind with technology to make yourself more intelligent and competitive (which is the eventual goal of AI developers), would you? Scary thought, but same principle. To stay competitive, would you "cheat" or enhance nature? My initial knee-jerk reaction is no way, but you know, if everyone else was and I was left behind and couldn't get a professional job to make the kind of money I require to be happy...you know, maybe I would.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    Cute puppy Sopranogirl :) Are you a musician?
  • Roanokejoe2
    Roanokejoe2 Posts: 14
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    Everyone in the Olympics is on juice? You're a total dumbass.
    Hi there! I decided I wasnt going down w/ the LS ship! So far I like this site better. Started off at 225-230. Made it all the way down to 190 and back up to 199. My goal is 175

    Started back on my diet this week and decided it was time for a change!

    Lance Armstrong stinks! Cheaters never win, or at least they win at first, but then have their titles stripped years later. but close enough

    You do realise not one person in the olimpics is not on juice?
  • gazelleintraining
    gazelleintraining Posts: 107
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    I think it's too bad that it's going down the way it is. If you level the field so that no one was doping, he'd still kick everyone's *kitten*

    I think so, too.
    And, when people are after a person for this long with this much vengeance, it makes me wonder what is wrong with them?

    They're French nationalists who would never admit that their teams dope, either. And let's face it, the U.S. is known for playing dirty across many sectors in politics, business, foreign affairs, etc., so it's kind of a slap in the face. If anything, I'd say Lance was made an example out of 1) punish-the-U.S. and 2) regain-our-French-nationalism-in-our-home-sport sentiments.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    Everyone in the Olympics is on juice? You're a total dumbass.
    Hi there! I decided I wasnt going down w/ the LS ship! So far I like this site better. Started off at 225-230. Made it all the way down to 190 and back up to 199. My goal is 175

    Started back on my diet this week and decided it was time for a change!

    Lance Armstrong stinks! Cheaters never win, or at least they win at first, but then have their titles stripped years later. but close enough

    You do realise not one person in the olimpics is not on juice?


    Who are you calling a dumb *kitten*? I wasnt the one that said every one in the "olimpics" --mispelled btw, is on juice...however, i would bet that many if not most are on some sort of suppliments of some kind.

    So far every one here has kept the debate on a high level cept for the dumb *kitten* that started calling people dumb *kitten* cuz they feel safe behind their key board.

    They are doing wonderful things in the world of hair growth now btw.
  • gazelleintraining
    gazelleintraining Posts: 107
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    One more point, and then I'm out of here before it gets too crazy negative... :)

    What Lance has done for cancer fundraising drives and research changed the face of how fundraising was conducted and how everyday people engaged with the topic. Remember those yellow bracelets? That changed the way that people thought about it, and made a very frightening subject accessible to so many different types of people. Now we're all about Kickstarter causes and consumer-level donations and marathons for change, etc., but prior to LS, it seemed only for folks who were directly affected through self, family, or friends.

    LiveStrong can take this opportunity to realign priorities and be a leader, or it can sink. I'd personally like to see the former, given what it's done and what it still can do for those who need it the most.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    One more point, and then I'm out of here before it gets too crazy negative... :)

    What Lance has done for cancer fundraising drives and research changed the face of how fundraising was conducted and how everyday people engaged with the topic. Remember those yellow bracelets? That changed the way that people thought about it, and made a very frightening subject accessible to so many different types of people. Now we're all about Kickstarter causes and consumer-level donations and marathons for change, etc., but prior to LS, it seemed only for folks who were directly affected through self, family, or friends.

    LiveStrong can take this opportunity to realign priorities and be a leader, or it can sink. I'd personally like to see the former, given what it's done and what it still can do for those who need it the most.

    God bless those who attempt to have the last word :)
  • LondonEliza
    LondonEliza Posts: 456 Member
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    I was one of the ones who spoke out saying he had to be innocent. It looks like I was wrong and I feel bad about that. I wish the rumors were all lies. I also think that trying to blame the whole crumbling house of cards on one man (he's only one man, remember) smacks of a lot of other people who were involved trying to make LS a scrapecoat for their wrongdoing.

    Armstrong has also stepped down as the livestrong chairman so anyone that wants to can go on using the site without fear of being affiliated with him:
    http://news.yahoo.com/armstrong-stepping-down-livestrong-chairman-120157920--spt.html

    However, onwards and upwards - where can I get some of this stuff for the school Mum's day race!!? (I jest)


    From: http://www.businessinsider.com/nike-fired-lance-armstrong-evidence-2012-10

    Here's The 'Insurmountable Evidence' That Made Nike Cut Ties With Lance Armstrong

    Nike has severed ties with Lance Armstrong a week after the USADA released a damning report alleging that he doped his way through seven Tour de France victories.

    The report called the doping operation — which involved blood doping, EPO use, and testosterone use — the most sophisticated in the history of the sport. In addition, it painted Armstrong as the driving force behind the program.

    Nike is typically loyal to its athletes, but it called this USADA evidence "seemingly insurmountable" in a statement this morning.

    Below is a year-by-year breakdown of the USADA's report against Armstrong. Along with general doping allegations, the witnesses in the report allege that Armstrong lied his way out of a failed test at the 1999 Tour de France, pressured his teammate to engage in more intense blood doping in 2002, and had a long-standing relationship with an Italian doctor who has since been banned from the sport for life.

    1998

    The report starts with a 1998 race in Spain where Armstrong's teammate Jonathan Vaughters alleges that Armstrong injected himself with EPO (a type of performance-enhancing drug) in front of him and was open about his performance enhancing drug use.

    In all, seven witnesses testified about performance-enhancing drug use on Armstrong's US Postal Service team, including four riders and a team employee admitting to using EPO, testosterone, human growth hormone and cortisone.

    1999

    In 1999, the report alleges that Armstrong's US Postal Service team ousted the team doctor Pedro Celaya because he "had not been aggressive enough for Armstrong in providing banned products." That year, Armstrong allegedly "got serious" with Italian doping doctor Michele Ferrari.

    In one instance, the wife of USPS rider Frankie Andreau says she, Armstrong, and Armstrong's wife met Ferrari on the side of the road outside Milan, and Armstrong met with Ferrari alone for an hour.

    Tyler Hamilton, Armstrong's training partner in 1999, told the USADA that Ferrari injected him with EPO that year.

    During the 1999 Tour de France, Armstrong tested positive for a cortisone that he didn't have medical authorization to use. A cover-up allegedly ensued:

    "Emma O’Reilly was in the room giving Armstrong a massage when Armstrong and team officials fabricated a story to cover the positive test. Armstrong and the team officials agreed to have Dr. del Moral backdate a prescription for cortisone cream for Armstrong which they would claim had been prescribed in advance of the Tour to treat a saddle sore. O’Reilly understood from Armstrong, however, that the positive had not come from a topical cream but had really come about from a cortisone injection Armstrong received around the time of the Route du Sud a few weeks earlier. After the meeting between Armstrong and the team officials concluded, Armstrong told O’Reilly, 'Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down.'"

    The report alleges that the team was delivered EPO during the 1999 Tour by a skilled, drug-smuggling motorcyclist that they called "Motoman." Tyler Hamilton says riders took testosterone via a olive-oil based solution that was sprayed in their mouths in 1999 as well.

    2000

    When they started testing for EPO in 2000, the team moved on to blood doping, Hamilton alleges. He says he, Armstrong, and Livingston went to Valencia, Spain and had blood extracted and later re-infused to boost their performance.

    Armstrong's teammate George Hincapie alleges that Armstrong also used testosterone in 2000, and dropped out of an unnamed race in Spain after Hincapie warned him that there would be drug testing.

    Hamilton says the riders were re-infused with blood during the 2000 Tour at a hotel room, and they joked about whose body was absorbing the blood the fastest.

    2001

    Michele Ferrari visited the USPS camp at the beginning of 2001, and his services were offered to any rider who wanted them for $15,000, says rider George Hincapie.

    Also in 2001, Vaughters went out on a bike ride with Armstrong where Lance "demonstrated a detailed knowledge of the EPO test" and told him how to skirt a positive test. He added that he had sources in the testing world who told him how it works.

    At the 2001 Tour du Suisse, Armstrong allegedly told his teammates that he had tested positive for EPO, but Armstrong had a conversation with UCI and told his teammates "everything was going to be okay."

    Floyd Landis alleges that Armstrong told him he made a "financial agreement" with UCI to keep the test hidden.

    2002

    In 2002, the report says Armstrong become good friends and training partners with Floyd Landis. Landis alleges that they both shared doping advice and drugs.

    "Armstrong also describes how much he enjoyed Landis’ boyish antics, gregarious personality and love for the American rock band ZZ Top."

    Landis had keys to his apartment.

    The USADA says it has evidence that $150,000 went from Armstrong to Ferrari during 2002, even though Ferrari was under investigation for doping.

    After the 2002 Tour de France, Christan Vande Velde alleges that Armstrong threatened to kick him off the team if he didn't step up his doping program:

    "Armstrong told Vande Velde that if he wanted to continue to ride for the Postal Service team he 'would have to use what Dr. Ferrari had been telling [Vande Velde] to use and would have to follow Dr. Ferrari’s program to the letter.'

    "Vande Velde said, '[T]he conversation left me with no question that I was in the doghouse and that the only way forward with Armstrong’s team was to get fully on Dr. Ferrari’s doping program.'"

    Vande Velde obliged.

    2003

    Armstrong paid Ferrari $475,000 in 2003, according to records.

    Landis was hurt during 2003, but when Armstrong went out of town he asked him to stay at his apartment and keep an eye on his blood-doping equipment. "Landis agreed to babysit the blood," the report says.

    Both Landis and Hincapie say Armstrong blood-doped in 2003, and every other Tour de France from 2001 to 2005.

    Landis says Armstrong gave him a box of six pre-measured syringes of EPO after he got two liters of blood taken out in 2003.

    2004

    Armstrong allegedly continued to work with Ferrari, and on the day before the 2004 Tour de France he wired him $100,000, according to records.

    Landis alleges that he saw Armstrong on a massage table with a testosterone patch on his shoulder.

    During the 2004 Tour, both Landis and Hincapie allege that the entire team got blood transfusions after a stage of the race on the team bus.

    In late 2004, Dr. Ferrari was convicted of sporting fraud for advising a group of Italian riders about EPO and other drugs. Armstrong publicly broke off his relationship with him.

    2005

    More of the same. Hincapie alleges that Armstrong gave him EPO following his seventh-straight Tour de France win.

    Also in 2005, the USADA says Armstrong's supposedly-finished relationship with Dr. Ferrari was "business as usual." The two met in Italy, and Armstrong wired him $100,000 according to records.

    2009

    The USADA says Armstrong retained a professional relationship with Ferrari by soliciting advise from him through his son Stefano. Here's an example of an e-mail exchange ("Schumi" is Ferrari):

    On November 4, 2009, Stefano inquires, “Schumi asks if you’d like [t]o continue the cooperation for next year too – if so, then it [w]ould be good to start thinking about some specifics already (gym + ome bike).”

    On November 15, 2009, Armstrong is looking ahead to the next year’s Tour, and he writes: “Yes, let’s continue . . . what we have started. I’m curious to know what Schumi [t]hinks for 2010 and what we need to do differently in terms of training. . .”

    Stefano responds, “Great! Schumi says it’s obviously a [T]our for light climbers.. . .”

    The USADA says the chances that Armstrong's blood levels during the 2009 Tour occurred naturally were "less than one in a million."

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nike-fired-lance-armstrong-evidence-2012-10#ixzz2AFWMBm9O
  • gazelleintraining
    gazelleintraining Posts: 107
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    God bless those who attempt to have the last word :)

    In my best Southern belle accent, "Why, whatever do you mean?" (bats lashes) j/k
    (lol)
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    God bless those who attempt to have the last word :)

    In my best Southern belle accent, "Why, whatever do you mean?" (bats lashes) j/k
    (lol)

    You couldnt help but look could you :) I'm the same way. I love a great debate. I also love that I can silence people that name call with my brains or brauns :)
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
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    Lance is still my hero. He has done so much for cancer.

    If he doped or not, eh... I hate to be a cynic, but I think everyone in sports does. I just feel like this whole thing was a witch hunt.
  • Dunkelheit666
    Dunkelheit666 Posts: 223 Member
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    Lance is still my hero. He has done so much for cancer.

    If he doped or not, eh... I hate to be a cynic, but I think everyone in sports does. I just feel like this whole thing was a witch hunt.

    You should read the witch hunt column by dan berstein i posted on the first page of this.

    It is a witch hunt...burn lance burn!
  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    What does Lance Armstrong have to do with anything?

    Hi! Welcome to MFP. We're crazy but it's okay because we want to help YOU reach your fitness goals.

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