Stop the Low-Cal Insanity!
Replies
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That's a fabulous new way of looking at it, thanks for putting in the time to elucidate the nutrition needs some of us may be falling short on.0
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Very good and thoughtful post. Thanks!!!
I think the main problem is with people's expectations that are not realistic. Yes, it is possible to lose weight super quick, but at what cost? Both physiologically and psychologically! And if weight loss is really the only thing that concerns people (and it should not be, the focus should be on health and fitness!!!), then maybe the argument of sustainability will make them thinking. Easy come easy go, or in case of weight loss, it is the other way round: quickly go, easy and quickly come back. This leads to a cycle of yo-yo dieting and never-ending battle against your body.
I want to stress over and over again, that a person will be much more successful when they get their emotional and psychological issues around food and body-image and self-esteem sorted before they embark on this journey. Some may benefit from serious and honest reflection, some may need professional help. Whatever works for anyone. The concept of 'I will feel good about myself and all my problems will go away once I weigh xx pounds' is a very very shaky one.
Best of luck to EVERYONE on the healthy and fun journey to become healthier and fitter!!! :flowerforyou:0 -
I wish MFP friends would understand this too, they automaticaly go for 1200 as that it what they have read or been told.
You have to feed yourself to lose weight.0 -
I’ve simplified this quite a bit, and done an end run around computing TDEE and going from there, but you get the point. Anyone eating 700 or 900 calories can’t possibly be getting enough fuel unless you’re 3 feet tall and weigh 75 pounds or something.
Ha! I just posted a similar guestimate for the wee folk in another thread!
Unfortunately, it's not going to help. You think by posting something sensible, people will listen to you. But, all the already-sensible people who know 800 cals is not enough will say "right on!". Anyone on a 800 cal diet is going to think they know best and ignore you. Or respond to you negatively because they think you are criticising them.
It's an un-winnable war, but you've got to make the attempt, so kudos for that!0 -
Very interesting, thanks for posting. I started on the 1200 as per mfp and lost 7lb in 2 weeks and was tired and drained. I have increased up to 1700 and happy to say I'm still losing 1-2lb a week. I have now started lifting and looking to increase the cals again.0
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I think that high calorie diets are a brilliant way to lose weight if you can stick them out, but for me personally, I can't actually fit that much in. If I was to eat 1200, I would be too stuffed to move.
I simply cannot cope with the sheer volume of food.0 -
Perhaps linking to some research backing up the suggestion that 1200 is an absolute minimum would help?
If a 300lb person can do ok on 1800, then I can see a small-framed 130lber wondering why they need to eat 2/3rds of that.
The '1200 minimum' seems rather arbitrary to me.
They will people approach such threads tends to be pretty rude to my mind.
Imagine you asked a question you believed was pretty reasonable and the response suggested you were mentally ill, but with no real backup to that?
Doesn't really help to my mind.
Me, at the moment I'm trying to stick to -1000kc, but tend to be eating over 2000kc still.
However, when I started I was aiming for eating a total of 1300kc with me at around 225lb. At the time I was doing heavy work 9-14 hours a day, 7 days a week. Easily burning a few thousand I'd have thought.
Worked fine for me.
Moosycakes:
Eat two extra flapjacks a day.
Easily bump you over, I'm sure.
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I think that high calorie diets are a brilliant way to lose weight if you can stick them out, but for me personally, I can't actually fit that much in. If I was to eat 1200, I would be too stuffed to move.
I simply cannot cope with the sheer volume of food.
You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.0 -
You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.
If I'm spontaneously eating, I would probably be at around 1000-1100 cals Maybe 1200 if I had a really big eating day.
That kept me stable at around 61 (134lbs) kgs for several years.
I just enjoy eating lower calsMoosycakes:
Eat two extra flapjacks a day.
Easily bump you over, I'm sure.
What's a flapjack?0 -
Need to show this to the gf - she has finally succumbed to my telling her to eat more (and include protein with each meal) but it will be cool just to show her I'm not making this stuff up!0
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What's a flapjack?
A very nice food, made of oats, sometimes fruit/honey.
There's a good recipe here: http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1205637/flapjack0 -
If I put my numbers into your calculation I get 948cals, before deducting the 20% (unless i am calculating it wrong, so please correct me if i am)
I have 88lbs of lbm. Target weight of 110 and typically eat around 50grams of carbs daily. (athough occasionally raise this to 80)
Even still it doesn't come close to 1200!!
Go figure... no wonder us petite people get such a hard time!!0 -
Thanks for the links, I will have to read Steve's blog, though I have no idea who Steve is.... More info is good.
PS. I thought flapjacks were simply pancakes.0 -
You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.
If I'm spontaneously eating, I would probably be at around 1000-1100 cals Maybe 1200 if I had a really big eating day.
That kept me stable at around 61 (134lbs) kgs for several years.
I just enjoy eating lower cals
Bizarre how our bodies work - I stayed level between 53-55 kgs for many years eating like a horse. Over the last 2 years I have gained weight up to 61kgs and I look at how my portions have increased and I estimate I must have been consistently eating over 3000 cal a day to get there. I have been eating at 1330 cal a day since the start of October and I have lost 4kg steadily but I know I could probably go up to around 1800 to 2000 and maintain the weight I am now if I wanted. I would prefer to be a bit lower to what I know is a comfortable weight.
If I ate at 1000-1100 I would be eating my own arms off out of sheer starvation, and eyeing off my children as dessert.0 -
If I put my numbers into your calculation I get 948cals, before deducting the 20% (unless i am calculating it wrong, so please correct me if i am)
I have 88lbs of lbm. Target weight of 110 and typically eat around 50grams of carbs daily. (athough occasionally raise this to 80)
Even still it doesn't come close to 1200!!
Go figure... no wonder us petite people get such a hard time!!
Sorry to be presumptuous, but I just plugged your numbers into a BMR calculator and setting your activity level to sedentary I came up with 1250ish for your TDEE. That means if you do any form of exercise then you will need to add to this. If you were considered "active" your TDEE would be around 1700-1800, so at a sensible deficit you would need to net 1300-1550 calories per day. Although, if you don't exercise, then you'll obviously need to eat less. But then if you don't exercise then weightloss will come from muscle and bone density and things you probably need.....0 -
You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.
If I'm spontaneously eating, I would probably be at around 1000-1100 cals Maybe 1200 if I had a really big eating day.
That kept me stable at around 61 (134lbs) kgs for several years.
I just enjoy eating lower cals
Bizarre how our bodies work - I stayed level between 53-55 kgs for many years eating like a horse. Over the last 2 years I have gained weight up to 61kgs and I look at how my portions have increased and I estimate I must have been consistently eating over 3000 cal a day to get there. I have been eating at 1330 cal a day since the start of October and I have lost 4kg steadily but I know I could probably go up to around 1800 to 2000 and maintain the weight I am now if I wanted. I would prefer to be a bit lower to what I know is a comfortable weight.
If I ate at 1000-1100 I would be eating my own arms off out of sheer starvation, and eyeing off my children as dessert.
To be fair, my BMI at 61 is 20.7, so I've never been overweight
It is funny how different people work! 0 -
I read on here that some people drink alchol me i would rather have something to eat alchol is just wasted calories0
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You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.
If I'm spontaneously eating, I would probably be at around 1000-1100 cals Maybe 1200 if I had a really big eating day.
That kept me stable at around 61 (134lbs) kgs for several years.
I just enjoy eating lower calsMoosycakes:
Eat two extra flapjacks a day.
Easily bump you over, I'm sure.
What's a flapjack?
I just have to say it. You are 18 years old and admittedly eating under 1000 calories a day. Particularly at your age you need to eat more. Add in half an avocado, or a whole one. Eat half a cup of nuts. You might "enjoy eating lower cals," but you are not giving your body what it needs.0 -
I just have to say it. You are 18 years old and admittedly eating under 1000 calories a day. Particularly at your age you need to eat more. Add in half an avocado, or a whole one. Eat half a cup of nuts. You might "enjoy eating lower cals," but you are not giving your body what it needs.
I do eat avocado sometimes, I am actually rather fond of them! Plus they're in season at the moment
I'm not a fan of nuts. I like sunflower seeds xD0 -
You do know that 1200 cal is not a high calorie diet, right?
It is a real bare minimum at best. Under that then you can cause yourself problems, and, no offense, if you are here to lose weight then you must have been able to eat over that at some point in your recent past.
If I'm spontaneously eating, I would probably be at around 1000-1100 cals Maybe 1200 if I had a really big eating day.
That kept me stable at around 61 (134lbs) kgs for several years.
I just enjoy eating lower cals
Bizarre how our bodies work - I stayed level between 53-55 kgs for many years eating like a horse. Over the last 2 years I have gained weight up to 61kgs and I look at how my portions have increased and I estimate I must have been consistently eating over 3000 cal a day to get there. I have been eating at 1330 cal a day since the start of October and I have lost 4kg steadily but I know I could probably go up to around 1800 to 2000 and maintain the weight I am now if I wanted. I would prefer to be a bit lower to what I know is a comfortable weight.
If I ate at 1000-1100 I would be eating my own arms off out of sheer starvation, and eyeing off my children as dessert.
To be fair, my BMI at 61 is 20.7, so I've never been overweight
It is funny how different people work!
my BMI at my heaviest was 21. I don't put much stock in the BMI because at 61 kg and despite being 5 foot 7 I was overweight for my slight frame. I look proportional and right at 54-55kg which is a BMI of between 18-19.0 -
If I put my numbers into your calculation I get 948cals, before deducting the 20% (unless i am calculating it wrong, so please correct me if i am)
I have 88lbs of lbm. Target weight of 110 and typically eat around 50grams of carbs daily. (athough occasionally raise this to 80)
Even still it doesn't come close to 1200!!
Go figure... no wonder us petite people get such a hard time!!
^^EXACTLY! I so wish people like the OP would quit lumping everyone into the same category and stop acting like they are the Guru who knows everything about weight loss. Get over yourselves, really!
And if the 200 pound woman in the example was an average height of 5'4", she would NOT be only 30% BF. Try closer to 50%. Your very skewed calculations would put her in a healthy BMI around 180 pounds! Unless she is an Olympic powerlifter, that is down right crazy!
Try redoing your math with her having 100 lbs of LBM and see what you get. Putting her at a healthy 20% BF would mean she needs to lose 80 pounds. No way will she lose that much eating 2000 calories per day.
Oh, I forgot. She is supposed to spend 5 hours a day in the gym lifting heavy weights every day like they do on The Biggest Loser.
Again, get over yourself!0 -
If I put my numbers into your calculation I get 948cals, before deducting the 20% (unless i am calculating it wrong, so please correct me if i am)
I have 88lbs of lbm. Target weight of 110 and typically eat around 50grams of carbs daily. (athough occasionally raise this to 80)
Even still it doesn't come close to 1200!!
Go figure... no wonder us petite people get such a hard time!!
By the OP's calculation, you shouldn't deduct the 20% or enter exercise--it's based on BMR, not TDEE. You are otherwise correct, tho. You have about the same amount of LBM as me and I actually weigh 110 (in maintenance). I would not suggest that you drop to 948, tho, or even 1200, unless you are particularly sedentary. BMR is what you need to survive. I ate 1650 a day when I was working out 3-5 days a week and upped it to 1850 when I started working out 6 days a week and still lost about .8 lbs. per week from February to August. Oh, and I'm 47 and 5'3" and in menopause. It's not that hard if you put in some effort to move.
Good luck!0 -
Why would you take 20% off this calculated number of calories? TDEE was not calculated, was it? Just by breathing and being awake and alive, the person's required calories is probably more than 1400.0
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and I find it annoying how ppl eating 2000 and losing come and try to ¨teach¨ people like if they were a fitness guru.
Yes I eat 1200 cal a day, yes im a shorty, and no i wont eat more than that cause I stop losing thank u.
If you eat 2000 and you lose, GREAT for you :drinker: , if I eat 1200 and lose, GREAT for me :drinker: . What works for you doesnt work for me and viceversa. To each their own, do your thing and stop worrying/complaining about what other people do.
Quite.
This!0 -
and I find it annoying how ppl eating 2000 and losing come and try to ¨teach¨ people like if they were a fitness guru.
Yes I eat 1200 cal a day, yes im a shorty, and no i wont eat more than that cause I stop losing thank u.
If you eat 2000 and you lose, GREAT for you :drinker: , if I eat 1200 and lose, GREAT for me :drinker: . What works for you doesnt work for me and viceversa. To each their own, do your thing and stop worrying/complaining about what other people do.
If 1200 works for you, that's great. I'm definitely not a guru by any means. My only concern is that when some people eat 1200, and it stops working, they may decrease past the minimum, If you're eating at 2000 (or 1800, or 1600..) and it stops working, you can drop down 200 calories for a few weeks and see how that works.0 -
BUMP.
I am finding this all very interesting as I have been thinking of increasing my calorie consumption. I have had great success with 1200 calories/day (eating back most of my exercise calories when I can) and I haven't felt deprived, am definitely building muscle (I have biceps coming in, yay!) and actually feel the best I ever have. However, I feel like I would probably benefit from upping my calories now that I'm lifting heavier and exercising much more aggressively.0 -
If I put my numbers into your calculation I get 948cals, before deducting the 20% (unless i am calculating it wrong, so please correct me if i am)
I have 88lbs of lbm. Target weight of 110 and typically eat around 50grams of carbs daily. (athough occasionally raise this to 80)
Even still it doesn't come close to 1200!!
Go figure... no wonder us petite people get such a hard time!!
By the OP's calculation, you shouldn't deduct the 20% or enter exercise--it's based on BMR, not TDEE. You are otherwise correct, tho. You have about the same amount of LBM as me and I actually weigh 110 (in maintenance). I would not suggest that you drop to 948, tho, or even 1200, unless you are particularly sedentary. BMR is what you need to survive. I ate 1650 a day when I was working out 3-5 days a week and upped it to 1850 when I started working out 6 days a week and still lost about .8 lbs. per week from February to August. Oh, and I'm 47 and 5'3" and in menopause. It's not that hard if you put in some effort to move.
Good luck!
I have my daily goal set to 1400 before exercise. However I was merely making a point that the calculation is not accurate especially for people on the lower end of short! 0 -
Here is the danger of all the Eat More people telling everyone what they should do.
There are numerous people struggling to lose weight on here. They are told that their BMR is like 1800 and their TDEE is like 2500 so they should be eating like 2200 per day.
Other people tell them that they MUST eat back their exercise calories.
So they ride their stationary bike for an hour and MFP tells them they burned 700 calories. Yippee! They now have 2900 calories they can eat per day! They think that sounds like way too many calories, so they only eat 2400 calories per day. That should give them an extra 1 pound loss per week, right??
After the first week or 2 of extra water weight they lose, they stop losing and even start gaining. People tell them they need to add weight training, so they go to the gym a couple days a week and lift a few weights. Ok, now when they gain weight, people can tell them that it isn't fat they are gaining, it is muscle. That is a good thing.
Other people tell them that since they are 'exercising' so much, that they now need to eat even more. So they do. And they continue to gain 'muscle'. Meanwhile, 3 months have passed and they have not lost 1 pound of the 80 pounds of fat they needed to lose.
They now get discouraged and decide that 'diets don't work for them' and quit altogether.
But hey, they have at least taught themselves how to eat 3000 calories per day so they won't go into 'starvation mode' and lose all their LBM!
Good job Gurus, good job!
So perhaps that is a little bit of an exaggeration, but hopefully you see my point. Seriously, right now I am watching several women who are getting so discouraged because they are eating around 1700-1800 cals per day and not losing any weight at all. The BMR calculators give them way too high of a number to start with and are convinced they have a TDEE of 2500. Then the MFP exercise calculators give them a number two times the number of calories they are actually burning, so they can't understand why they aren't losing weight. Now they have people 20 years younger than they are, who spend hours a day in the gym, telling them that they just need to eat more, don't worry you are gaining muscle not fat, just wait, give it more time and you will start losing, etc.
I feel horrible for these people because I understand their frustration.
If someone has 50 pounds of fat to lose, losing at 1-2 pounds per week is completely safe and healthy. Whatever calorie level puts you losing at that amount, and you are getting the right amount of nutrients where you are not starving all day and have zero energy, then eat at that amount. There is no magic number. Whatever number is working for you, is the right number. If after the first 2 weeks you stop losing and don't lose for a month, then you are eating too many calories.
PLEASE note that I am not directing this towards someone already at a healthy weight. This is for those who have a lot to lose. I also do not condone calories lower than 800 per day for anyone, long term. The CDC states that 800 is the minimum calories for most women and 900 for most men, to get in the proper nutrients and lose weight safely. AGAIN, I am not saying that everyone should eat at that low of a level, but if an overweight person is eating that low for the purpose of treating obesity, then leave them alone and let them and their doctor worry about it.0 -
Here is the danger of all the Eat More people telling everyone what they should do.
There are numerous people struggling to lose weight on here. They are told that their BMR is like 1800 and their TDEE is like 2500 so they should be eating like 2200 per day.
Other people tell them that they MUST eat back their exercise calories.
So they ride their stationary bike for an hour and MFP tells them they burned 700 calories. Yippee! They now have 2900 calories they can eat per day! They think that sounds like way too many calories, so they only eat 2400 calories per day. That should give them an extra 1 pound loss per week, right??
After the first week or 2 of extra water weight they lose, they stop losing and even start gaining. People tell them they need to add weight training, so they go to the gym a couple days a week and lift a few weights. Ok, now when they gain weight, people can tell them that it isn't fat they are gaining, it is muscle. That is a good thing.
Other people tell them that since they are 'exercising' so much, that they now need to eat even more. So they do. And they continue to gain 'muscle'. Meanwhile, 3 months have passed and they have not lost 1 pound of the 80 pounds of fat they needed to lose.
They now get discouraged and decide that 'diets don't work for them' and quit altogether.
But hey, they have at least taught themselves how to eat 3000 calories per day so they won't go into 'starvation mode' and lose all their LBM!
Good job Gurus, good job!
LOL!! Like!! :flowerforyou:0 -
Here is the danger of all the Eat More people telling everyone what they should do.
There are numerous people struggling to lose weight on here. They are told that their BMR is like 1800 and their TDEE is like 2500 so they should be eating like 2200 per day.
Other people tell them that they MUST eat back their exercise calories.
So they ride their stationary bike for an hour and MFP tells them they burned 700 calories. Yippee! They now have 2900 calories they can eat per day! They think that sounds like way too many calories, so they only eat 2400 calories per day. That should give them an extra 1 pound loss per week, right??
After the first week or 2 of extra water weight they lose, they stop losing and even start gaining. People tell them they need to add weight training, so they go to the gym a couple days a week and lift a few weights. Ok, now when they gain weight, people can tell them that it isn't fat they are gaining, it is muscle. That is a good thing.
Other people tell them that since they are 'exercising' so much, that they now need to eat even more. So they do. And they continue to gain 'muscle'. Meanwhile, 3 months have passed and they have not lost 1 pound of the 80 pounds of fat they needed to lose.
They now get discouraged and decide that 'diets don't work for them' and quit altogether.
But hey, they have at least taught themselves how to eat 3000 calories per day so they won't go into 'starvation mode' and lose all their LBM!
Good job Gurus, good job!
To be fair, the original post was aimed at people eating 800-900 calories or less a day.0
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