Someone PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS FOR ME!!

runnermomo4

Since getting my body media I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows
calories burned: 2128
Calories Consumed: 1632
Calorie Balance: 496 deficit
Average Daily Activity 2:02
Average Number of Steps 7615
Average Sleep: 7:54
I wear the bodymedia 22.2 hours a day

My food calories I eat are accurate I have logged with myfitness pal for 3 years and I keep a very accurate Log. I did take a break from logging the last month or so because everything is making me crazy but my habits didn't change. Also my measurements have gone up so I haven't gained muscle.

I don't understand how having a 496 daily deficit average I can be gaining weight.

Chief_Rocka

maybe the BMF isn't accurate

joannathechef

I think your TDEE may be wrong so you are not deficit.

Sorry - There is no other reason Calories In - Calories Out

3,500 deficit per pound you want to lose

girlonabikedc

How long have you been using the BMF?

californiagirl2012

Since getting my body media I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows
calories burned: 2128
Calories Consumed: 1632
Calorie Balance: 496 deficit
Average Daily Activity 2:02
Average Number of Steps 7615
Average Sleep: 7:54
I wear the bodymedia 22.2 hours a day

My food calories I eat are accurate I have logged with myfitness pal for 3 years and I keep a very accurate Log. I did take a break from logging the last month or so because everything is making me crazy but my habits didn't change. Also my measurements have gone up so I haven't gained muscle.

I don't understand how having a 496 daily deficit average I can be gaining weight.

Your body is the end game, not the online calorie tools which are just estimates to start with. Your BMR could be lower than you think. You could go to a lab and have this tested. It's the only way to know for sure. Most people have a BMR lower than they think.

For any of us to tell you to eat more is wrong.

For any of us to tell you to eat less is wrong.

If in doubt check with your doctor. We can't tell you.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

All that matters is calories. A healthy balanced diet within a calorie budget for a deficit that is right for YOU is all that matters for weight loss. Don't make it complicated.

Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).

If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.

Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.


Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.

What is the exact number of calories for you?

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.

The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.

At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].

-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)

AllonsYtotheTardis

The programmer in me tends to look to what are the changed variables - that's the BMF. It's likely something to do with that.

chayleah

If you took a break from logging the last month or so, where did the calories consumed number come from? If you aren't logging is it possible that number is off? What kind of exercise have you been doing?

Sailatsorf

Keep your sodium intake in check. It's a silent killer.

christy419

unexplained weight gain could be something medical. How have you been feeling other wise. any other symptoms? stress and lack of sleep also cuases it. I had an under active thyroid that kept me from losing weight. medications help with it.

marathonmom72

Since getting my body media I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows
calories burned: 2128
Calories Consumed: 1632
Calorie Balance: 496 deficit
Average Daily Activity 2:02
Average Number of Steps 7615
Average Sleep: 7:54
I wear the bodymedia 22.2 hours a day

My food calories I eat are accurate I have logged with myfitness pal for 3 years and I keep a very accurate Log. I did take a break from logging the last month or so because everything is making me crazy but my habits didn't change. Also my measurements have gone up so I haven't gained muscle.

I don't understand how having a 496 daily deficit average I can be gaining weight.

Your body is the end game, not the online calorie tools which are just estimates to start with. Your BMR could be lower than you think. You could go to a lab and have this tested. It's the only way to know for sure. Most people have a BMR lower than they think.

For any of us to tell you to eat more is wrong.

For any of us to tell you to eat less is wrong.

If in doubt check with your doctor. We can't tell you.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

All that matters is calories. A healthy balanced diet within a calorie budget for a deficit that is right for YOU is all that matters for weight loss. Don't make it complicated.

Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).

If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.

Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.


Too many changes at once can be hard on some people. I've always eaten healthy so it easy for me to simply eat less. Eating at a calorie deficit is hard on people; even a small deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones and such. Everyone is different. Some people can handle a deeper calorie deficit than others, this is not right or wrong, it just is. Stress in your life affects your hunger hormones; lack of sleep, fatigue, job stress, family stress, financial stress, etc. Add in emotional eating issues and it gets even more complicated. Most people can only handle so much change/stress at once, they try to do too much and fail. Sometimes it might be a better strategy to eat at maintenance and make some small changes first, it really depends on how much stress you are taking in at the moment.

What is the exact number of calories for you?

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

The good thing is you don't have to worry about the starvation mode myth if you are fat. Only skinny people have to worry about starvation mode. It does not mean you have the capability to eat at a large calorie deficit if you have emotional eating disorders or other issues going on, but at least you don't have to be afraid of it anymore.

The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.

At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].

-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)

VERY good post!

LaurenAOK

I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows

I did take a break from logging the last month or so

I see a huge possible correlation here. You stopped logging for a month, you gained weight in a month. I know you think your habits haven't changed but you really may not know how much your'e consuming without logging. The same thing happened to me. I stopped logging for a little while and started gaining, even though I kept track of calories in my head and could've sworn I was eating the same way I did when I logged. Then I started logging again and started losing weight again. I feel that you may be consuming more than you think.

EmilyOfTheSun

yo i spilled bong water in my car how the **** am i getting this stank out

LOL!!

TR0berts

Also my measurements have gone up so I haven't gained muscle.

That doesn't mean anything. If you lose fat, but gain muscle, you could very well have the same measurements. Muscle is considerably denser than fat. I'm not saying that that's what happened, but you can't discount it based solely on measurements.

LorinaLynn

I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows

I did take a break from logging the last month or so

I see a huge possible correlation here. You stopped logging for a month, you gained weight in a month. I know you think your habits haven't changed but you really may not know how much your'e consuming without logging. The same thing happened to me. I stopped logging for a little while and started gaining, even though I kept track of calories in my head and could've sworn I was eating the same way I did when I logged. Then I started logging again and started losing weight again. I feel that you may be consuming more than you think.

This.

Plus, on the days you did log, your sodium is all over the place. Sometimes pretty good, sometimes pretty high. If you happen to weigh after one of those high days, you can expect to see an increase on the scale. I've seen as much as an 8 pound gain from a particularly salty meal.

You're also pretty darn close to your goal weight, so a 250 calorie deficit might be a better daily goal for you than ~500 calories.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

I have gained 5lbs despite my average stats for a month being as follows

I did take a break from logging the last month or so

I see a huge possible correlation here. You stopped logging for a month, you gained weight in a month. I know you think your habits haven't changed but you really may not know how much your'e consuming without logging. The same thing happened to me. I stopped logging for a little while and started gaining, even though I kept track of calories in my head and could've sworn I was eating the same way I did when I logged. Then I started logging again and started losing weight again. I feel that you may be consuming more than you think.

Same here. I thought I'd been logging long enough to stop for awhile and be fine, but I crept up about 5 lbs and had to start up again.

Zangpakto

Because your eating close to 1700c and you might be eating too much?

Seriously...

Carbs aren't the best friend in the world for active people when trying to lose weight, they are a tool for loading when racing etc, but practically useless to us really...I mean like heavy carbs so excess of 100g max a day...

I think perhaps your carb intake might be higher than what it should be if your training... I used to get into that pitfall....

You need more protein to rebuild the muscle than glycogen to replenish muscle stores....

Also you say training for 2 hrs? Is that running at say half marathon pace or faster, or marathon/ultra pace? Because your burning of 2100 seems not quite right for that activity, I mean 1200 base + maybe 1200-1400 for running at mod pace for 2hrs means total of 2300-2500... Even if I went for a 2 hr run, the most I would eat total is 1600... Sure I would only "net" 2-400 calories, but I was fine with that as long as kept protein and fats up... carbs during run maybe sure, but didn't go over board as a nice juicy steak is better

So I think look at what your eating... For me basically my issue is carbs... Most peoples issue is carbs plain and simple, they have too many...

Hope I somewhat could be of help, even if a little

runnermomo4

No I haven't gained just while not logging. .. When I don't log I actually have stayed the same. I have been gaining for the last year or stalled weather I log or not. Lost 25lbs with mfp, got the bodymedia to lose the last 10 lbs and have continued to gain. I lift heavy 3 times a week run 15 kms a week and do yoga. People can assume I'm lying to myself about the number of calories I consume or burn but I don't believe that is helpful to my weight loss. That is why I got the body media to get the most accurate picture of what is going on.

Zangpakto

No I haven't gained just while not logging. .. When I don't log I actually have stayed the same. I have been gaining for the last year or stalled weather I log or not. Lost 25lbs with mfp, got the bodymedia to lose the last 10 lbs and have continued to gain. I lift heavy 3 times a week run 15 kms a week and do yoga. People can assume I'm lying to myself about the number of calories I consume or burn but I don't believe that is helpful to my weight loss. That is why I got the body media to get the most accurate picture of what is going on.

I just checked your diary you seem to be going over your carbs almost consistently and same with going under on protein... I would suggest trying to focus on 50-80g carbs a day MAX and see how you feel and what happens, and up your protein intake....

Also 15km a week, is that in total? Or per session? Would be nice to know as if you are a runner I could change my advice slightly

I mean I currently am active everyday and get depressed if not, also run 3 times a week, cycle/weights 3 times a week and then surf 2 times a week lol... Active does really help I can lose quickly, but I'm on the oh lets get drunk and eat random crap ship on weekends at moment lol.. I still lose each week, but not as fast as can lol!

LaurenAOK

No I haven't gained just while not logging. .. When I don't log I actually have stayed the same. I have been gaining for the last year or stalled weather I log or not. Lost 25lbs with mfp, got the bodymedia to lose the last 10 lbs and have continued to gain. I lift heavy 3 times a week run 15 kms a week and do yoga. People can assume I'm lying to myself about the number of calories I consume or burn but I don't believe that is helpful to my weight loss. That is why I got the body media to get the most accurate picture of what is going on.

No one said you were lying. We just said it can be hard to get an accurate count of how much you eat without logging. It's happened to plenty of us before.

If you're sure that's not it, the BMF calculations may be wrong, or it could be a medical cause. I'd see a doctor just be sure.

DopeItUp

No I haven't gained just while not logging. .. When I don't log I actually have stayed the same. I have been gaining for the last year or stalled weather I log or not. Lost 25lbs with mfp, got the bodymedia to lose the last 10 lbs and have continued to gain. I lift heavy 3 times a week run 15 kms a week and do yoga. People can assume I'm lying to myself about the number of calories I consume or burn but I don't believe that is helpful to my weight loss. That is why I got the body media to get the most accurate picture of what is going on.

Let's use a little bit of logic and common sense here. You've been gaining weight or maintaining for the last year. What do you think this means? You are eating more than you are burning. Maybe you're overestimating your calories burned during exercise, or underestimating the food you intake. Or maybe your base metabolism is slower than it's calculated to be. Who knows, who cares? Either way, if you're gaining over a long period of time then you're in a surplus. You can't gain weight magically from nothing, especially over such a long period of time.

Having said that, you'd need to consume less, or burn more. Or a little of both.

DoingItNow2012

Call bodymedia to see if he device is possibly faulty. Have you been weighing all along or just at the end of the month? If at the end of the month could be water retention. Could anything be going on medically? I would rule out medical and equipment malfunction first, then look at everything else.

Sarauk2sf

Because your eating close to 1700c and you might be eating too much?

Seriously...

Carbs aren't the best friend in the world for active people when trying to lose weight, they are a tool for loading when racing etc, but practically useless to us really...I mean like heavy carbs so excess of 100g max a day...

I think perhaps your carb intake might be higher than what it should be if your training... I used to get into that pitfall....

You need more protein to rebuild the muscle than glycogen to replenish muscle stores....

Also you say training for 2 hrs? Is that running at say half marathon pace or faster, or marathon/ultra pace? Because your burning of 2100 seems not quite right for that activity, I mean 1200 base + maybe 1200-1400 for running at mod pace for 2hrs means total of 2300-2500... Even if I went for a 2 hr run, the most I would eat total is 1600... Sure I would only "net" 2-400 calories, but I was fine with that as long as kept protein and fats up... carbs during run maybe sure, but didn't go over board as a nice juicy steak is better

So I think look at what your eating... For me basically my issue is carbs... Most peoples issue is carbs plain and simple, they have too many...

Hope I somewhat could be of help, even if a little

You do not even know her size and you are saying that 1,700 is to much - I lose on 2,000 with no cardio. What does that say? Nothing without knowing either of our stats.

And carbs over 100g are absolutely fine as long as you are not in a calorie surplus because of them (or any macro for than matter) and it does not mean that you are not getting enough protein or healthy fats.

I have between 150g and 220g of carbs and I, a 45 year old female, has no problem losing weight.

Sarauk2sf

No I haven't gained just while not logging. .. When I don't log I actually have stayed the same. I have been gaining for the last year or stalled weather I log or not. Lost 25lbs with mfp, got the bodymedia to lose the last 10 lbs and have continued to gain. I lift heavy 3 times a week run 15 kms a week and do yoga. People can assume I'm lying to myself about the number of calories I consume or burn but I don't believe that is helpful to my weight loss. That is why I got the body media to get the most accurate picture of what is going on.

Let's use a little bit of logic and common sense here. You've been gaining weight or maintaining for the last year. What do you think this means? You are eating more than you are burning. Maybe you're overestimating your calories burned during exercise, or underestimating the food you intake. Or maybe your base metabolism is slower than it's calculated to be. Who knows, who cares? Either way, if you're gaining over a long period of time then you're in a surplus. You can't gain weight magically from nothing, especially over such a long period of time.

Having said that, you'd need to consume less, or burn more. Or a little of both.

This.

It seemed like you were losing before. Did you up your calories when you got the BMF?

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

i am really not inclined to believe that the OP gained over a pound a week eating 1632 calories--that would mean a maintenance calorie intake of 1132....just not realistic without some serious endocrine issues.

I would guess that it's one of the following: 1) a fluctuation due to water retention from sodium 2) a fluctuation due to water retention from sore muscles 3) improper calorie calculations 4) TOM 5) different scale/inconsistent scale/inconsistent weigh in conditions 6) constipation

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Because your eating close to 1700c and you might be eating too much?

Seriously...

Carbs aren't the best friend in the world for active people when trying to lose weight, they are a tool for loading when racing etc, but practically useless to us really...I mean like heavy carbs so excess of 100g max a day...

I think perhaps your carb intake might be higher than what it should be if your training... I used to get into that pitfall....

You need more protein to rebuild the muscle than glycogen to replenish muscle stores....

Also you say training for 2 hrs? Is that running at say half marathon pace or faster, or marathon/ultra pace? Because your burning of 2100 seems not quite right for that activity, I mean 1200 base + maybe 1200-1400 for running at mod pace for 2hrs means total of 2300-2500... Even if I went for a 2 hr run, the most I would eat total is 1600... Sure I would only "net" 2-400 calories, but I was fine with that as long as kept protein and fats up... carbs during run maybe sure, but didn't go over board as a nice juicy steak is better

So I think look at what your eating... For me basically my issue is carbs... Most peoples issue is carbs plain and simple, they have too many...

Hope I somewhat could be of help, even if a little

If I was the OP I'd say that this wasn't helpful AT ALL. Sorry. Carbs are not going to cause her to gain weight--and netting 2-400 calories is not sustainable or healthy, period.

runnermomo4

Thanks for the responses, I'm not sure what advice I was I was hoping to hear. I can't expect anyone to give advice based on the small amount of info I gave. It easy to simplify it and say I am simply eating more calories than I am burning. But personally I don't feel its that simple. I believe this is a case of how eating a low calorie diet works, but is not maintainable. Looking back at my history on mfp when I lost my first 25 lbs, I was netting 600 - 1000 calories a day. It got me down to 120 lbs but the only way to hit my goal I would have to lower my calories even more. The only thing I noticed when lowering my calories anymore was my running pace and distance suffered, the amount of weight I was able to lift suffered. I became Iron deficient, tired, cranky, started losing my hair and a number of other symptoms. (I was tested for thyroid etc. and everything came back normal with the dr.) Which tells me I was not getting the nutrients or amount of food I needed.
I am an athlete I enjoy training and in order to achieve my athletic goals I believe I need to fuel my body. I don't over eat, I know when I am full and after three years of logging my food on here I really am a creature of habit and really eat the same foods on average.

There are millions of people out there who don't log food, eat until they are full, make healthy choices and maintain a healthy weight. That is the balance I am trying to find. I don't believe that I have to net only 600 calories in order to be the weight I believe I should be.

I know someone will probably "call" me out as to having inconsistency in my numbers or eating a burger last week and blame failure on that, But I can't go down on my calorie consumption. If I continue cutting calories I eventually have to eat nothing to maintain....

I don't know maybe its time to seek a professional.

geekyjock76

What if your weight doesn't go down to the number you wish but your body composition improves?

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

runnermom04 -- I completely sympathize with you. MAYBE just MAYBE the weight you want to be isn't the healthiest weight for you. I understand that you shouldn't have to eat 600 net to be your desired weight but our body and our own desires/perspective on what's "ideal" is not always in line with one another. I suggest eating at your estimated TDEE--based on your BMF--risk more weight gain to restore your hormones and metabolic rate. That is truly your only hope at this point and if you really are more concerned about your performance and training then you wouldn't hesitate because I can guarantee you'll feel BETTER with proper fueling. Best of luck to you.

runnermomo4

Thanks for your response love4fitness. I appreciate the advice. I don't necessarily need to see a certain number on the scale. But it is very frustrating putting in the effort I have been and seeing my results go backwards. I find it very hard to eat at maintenance, which is why I stopped logging. I am afraid of losing everything I've worked so hard to get.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Fear is understandable but you're not currently getting anywhere with your approach. If you're going to gain weight you might as well restore your hormones and metabolic rate in the process. Right now your gaining is without any real benefits as its still a "deficit" and isn't allowing the necessary hormonal changes to occur.

Zangpakto

Because your eating close to 1700c and you might be eating too much?

Seriously...

Carbs aren't the best friend in the world for active people when trying to lose weight, they are a tool for loading when racing etc, but practically useless to us really...I mean like heavy carbs so excess of 100g max a day...

I think perhaps your carb intake might be higher than what it should be if your training... I used to get into that pitfall....

You need more protein to rebuild the muscle than glycogen to replenish muscle stores....

Also you say training for 2 hrs? Is that running at say half marathon pace or faster, or marathon/ultra pace? Because your burning of 2100 seems not quite right for that activity, I mean 1200 base + maybe 1200-1400 for running at mod pace for 2hrs means total of 2300-2500... Even if I went for a 2 hr run, the most I would eat total is 1600... Sure I would only "net" 2-400 calories, but I was fine with that as long as kept protein and fats up... carbs during run maybe sure, but didn't go over board as a nice juicy steak is better

So I think look at what your eating... For me basically my issue is carbs... Most peoples issue is carbs plain and simple, they have too many...

Hope I somewhat could be of help, even if a little

If I was the OP I'd say that this wasn't helpful AT ALL. Sorry. Carbs are not going to cause her to gain weight--and netting 2-400 calories is not sustainable or healthy, period.

If you train a lot it is very sustainable. Also weekly targets I aim for not daily.... Humans did not evolve eating by the clock..l scientific factor you right there.... Carbs? Sure but actually considering health experts and running coaches are finding in studies a high carb intake actually impedes weir loss and decreases performance... Why in the hell would I aim to eat more of something science has proven to be bad to what I believe in?

You say you do not even run or have run or cycled competitively... So our kind of thinking sets are different to start out.

Carbs? PSMF world wide works.... Again a scientific fact that has been proven.. That also is low cals, and no negative effects.

CRON? If done correct it yields the best health benefits of any eating that has ever been done according to blood and hormone markers and responses yet is under 1000 cals before training....

There is a world of scientific excessive that proves calories are a stupid and lame excuse for the not attentive individual. Nutrition is what our bodies require and even if hard to get everything on 6-800c a day, it is very possible and has proven medical benefits, but the normal person will not spend the time needed and that is why it is said to be unhealthy. On 1200+ you do not need to calculate as diligently however your body treats the excess calories badly and it affects your health, but if never tried to do low cal correctly or never read scientific journals or research meterial, then please do not give advice on stuff you actually have no scientific knowledge about.