Experience with the "whoosh"?
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I can see how some people could see this as BS, but it does happen.
All week I've stayed around the same weight, losing and gaining a pound, all over the place. My stomach was all squishy and really pushed out, and I just assumed it was monthly bloating, but this morning I was suddenly down 4.2 pounds.
I also did my measurements yesterday and they were pretty much the same as they were 2 weeks ago, half an inch here or there. After reading this was post I was curious so I did them again...Lost 2.5 around my navel, 1 on my hips and 1.5 on my waist. Since yesterday.
If that wasn't a "whoosh", it was magic. Haha.1 -
Thoughts I'm working through...
Why would water go into the fat cell in the first place? The cell is shrinking as the fat is going away. For water to enter the cell, the cell would have to be hypertonic (higher solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. Not sure why that would occur. And then what would trigger the water release? The cell would then have to become hypotonic (having a lower solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. But how does the solute concentration of the surrounding fluids change based off weight loss? Hmmm…0 -
As someone who ALWAYS loses with a whoosh, I can tell you that it's true for me. My fat loss cycle is 2 weeks to 2 months, and is almost always preceded by jiggly fat areas. Literally, the fat feels less firm and more squishy to the touch. Also, the scale may not show a loss at all, but the tape measure will tell me differently once the cells are emptied (as does how my clothes fit).
I can tell you that it is very frustrating to me, personally. The length of time I go without a loss has caused me to give up more than once.
Still here though. Still chugging along!0 -
From what I have read, as adults, we have already created all the fat cells we are going to have. Some of them will die, but the body will typically regenerate new cells to replace the ones that die.^yeah, it's kind of confusing. I'm just asking about this whole fat cells filling with water, getting squishy, and releasing it business. Also, on another note, I've read another of articles on livestrong.com that cited journal articles, but when I read the original research, it didn't support what livestrong was saying at all. So always good to read it yourself
I've read about dieter's edema--I believe it, subscribe to it, but I'm not losing nor do I weigh myself frequently enough to notice a whoosh. I think your tone is a bit accusatory though.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound accusatory. I know it doesn't come off completely evenly, but at the same time, it's not concentrated in one place. This whole concept of water retention and release is just a completely new concept to me. As a Nutrition Science major, I'm asking for journal articles so I can understand how it would work. Not because I'm on a personal vendetta. Sorry if it came across that way
I think your gut reaction is right. Physiologically, it doesn't make sense. First, we know you create fat cells if you have extra energy to store, but your body maintains empty fat cells in case you have excess energy in the future. Hence the reason it's easy to gain back to your "heaviest", but you hit a plateau at that point when trying to gain more. As far as the water topic, one of the reasons we store energy in fat instead of glycogen is because Fat storage requires 1/6th of the water than glycogen storage. It would defeat the purpose to store water in place of the fat globule in these cells. It also has no function in keeping these cells alive or at a more "ready state" for the fat globule to store more energy.
How and whether they are used is a different matter. I read studies that suggest we gain our fat cells as children which I thought was really interesting and said something about instilling better health values in our younger generations.
This is probably a whole other post in itself, but I thought you might find it interesting.
Here is a link to one of the articles I read about it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/health/research/05fat.html?_r=00 -
Thoughts I'm working through...
Why would water go into the fat cell in the first place? The cell is shrinking as the fat is going away. For water to enter the cell, the cell would have to be hypertonic (higher solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. Not sure why that would occur. And then what would trigger the water release? The cell would then have to become hypotonic (having a lower solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. But how does the solute concentration of the surrounding fluids change based off weight loss? Hmmm…
The human body is weird and I can't find much on the topic--maybe it's not actually water retention in the FAT CELLS but in other body cells. WE do know that stress causes water retention due to increased cortisol levels--perhaps it is a reduction in cortisol that is responsible for the whoosh. I'm not sure where the water is stored during these periods and I'm not claiming that it IS fat cells but I do believe that water retention is often increased as a side effect of dieting.0 -
Amen.....it's why a lot of people give up. Your fat loss cycle runs about the same as mine and with the same symptoms.As someone who ALWAYS loses with a whoosh, I can tell you that it's true for me. My fat loss cycle is 2 weeks to 2 months, and is almost always preceded by jiggly fat areas. Literally, the fat feels less firm and more squishy to the touch. Also, the scale may not show a loss at all, but the tape measure will tell me differently once the cells are emptied (as does how my clothes fit).
I can tell you that it is very frustrating to me, personally. The length of time I go without a loss has caused me to give up more than once.
Still here though. Still chugging along!0 -
Also, someone up there mentions that fat comes off from all over? Not necessarily true. Fat loss comes first from the last place to store it, but not evenly all over. Sometimes, the fat lost is from around the internal organs and won't show at all to the eye, but it shows on the scale.
It's not as simple or clear cut as some people think.0 -
I think it's BS. I've taken a dramatic drop in weight (i consider 1 pound in 1 day dramatic) and spent no more time peeing than I normally do. I dropped 1 pound for two days strait a week ago and had no increased peeing habits. I actually find that I will loose more weight when I have bowel movements in the morning than urination.
If you're retaining enough excess water to affect your weight, you need to see a doctor. Other than that, your hydrated and that weight is just going to be there.0 -
Thoughts I'm working through...
Why would water go into the fat cell in the first place? The cell is shrinking as the fat is going away. For water to enter the cell, the cell would have to be hypertonic (higher solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. Not sure why that would occur. And then what would trigger the water release? The cell would then have to become hypotonic (having a lower solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. But how does the solute concentration of the surrounding fluids change based off weight loss? Hmmm…
I agree that water most likely is not being stored in the fat cells. From a scientific point of view, I'm guessing it has to do with people converting fat to glucose (which would use water from the body) and then breaking down the glucose which would release it from the body. It is usually triggered by low blood sugar which can come from low carb diets or exercise if heavy enough to deplete more readily available energy stores like glycogen. (Your brain doesn't like drops in blood sugar since it can't store energy) Look up gluconeogenesis in your textbook if you want a little more detail and see if you agree. Again, this is just a guess. BTW, I taught A&P and the college level for many years (albeit it that was many years ago now).0 -
^Very interesting thought!! Makes sense.The human body is weird and I can't find much on the topic--maybe it's not actually water retention in the FAT CELLS but in other body cells. WE do know that stress causes water retention due to increased cortisol levels--perhaps it is a reduction in cortisol that is responsible for the whoosh. I'm not sure where the water is stored during these periods and I'm not claiming that it IS fat cells but I do believe that water retention is often increased as a side effect of dieting.
It does make more sense to me that water retention would be in other cells, especially since fat is hydrophobic and repels water. Interesting thought about stress levels. That could factor in to water retention, and I can see how dieters would have increased levels of stress. Most other side effects from dieting seem like they would actually decrease water retention (increased protein, decreased sodium, more exercise, low B vitamins, ect.)0 -
OMG I swear I thought I was crazy! I call it shrinky-dink week! A week (actually about 4 or 5 days) where I lose RAPID, the next couple followed by the "Gain train" where I will change nothing in my diet or routine and yet gain half the loss back... the next two weeks I steadily lose again. Month to month I always average about a 10lb loss so I wasn't worried, but I thought I was going bat *kitten* nuts. I found another post recently and thought maybe it revolved around my TOM (which it really does as far as the "Cycle" of it goes) but if guys experince this, then I doubt that is all the science of it...1
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I think it's BS. I've taken a dramatic drop in weight (i consider 1 pound in 1 day dramatic) and spent no more time peeing than I normally do. I dropped 1 pound for two days strait a week ago and had no increased peeing habits. I actually find that I will loose more weight when I have bowel movements in the morning than urination.
If you're retaining enough excess water to affect your weight, you need to see a doctor. Other than that, your hydrated and that weight is just going to be there.
Fat metabolism releases water that is eliminated with the urine and sweat plus other metabolites like carbon dioxide that are eliminated in the breath.0 -
Actually bodyrecomposition.com is a very credible source. It is Lyle McDonald's website. It's full of scientifically accurate information. (I have not visited the other sites.)
I've never heard of this guy, but when I looked him up, I couldn't find any information about his degrees. Also, when I read articles from .com sites, I generally look at the sources cited, and if there are journal articles, I'll go read them and if they're in line with what the site says, then I consider it credible.
So far, everything I have seen on that site is backed by scientific research, which is pretty rare for a website.0 -
What happens is as your body begins to empty fat cells, it replaces the lost fat in the cells with water, in anticipation of replenishing your fat supply. Because building new tissue is hard work for the body (even fat cells, believe it or not) it will attempt to keep the cells as long as possible by filling them with water.
At this point is when people notice their fat feels "squishy" or "chunky" or "dimpled" or....you get the picture.
As we stay consistent on our routines, our body has no choice but to relinquish the water and fat cells eventually and when it does, we experience the "whoosh" effect.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like BS to me. I haven't heard anything like this in my major classes and wasn't able to find any credible information about it online. Do you have any good links I could take a look at?
I just don't understand how fat could feel "squishy" from some parts of the body if it comes off from all over. I mean, when you lose a couple pounds, it's not concentrated in one place, so it's hard for me to imagine that any change it's "squishyness" it would be noticeable.
Fat doesn't come off evenly actually--it comes off disproportionately considering there are more fat cells in certain areas. Given this fact, if you have more fat cells in your abdomen it's conceivable that you'd look squishy here and not in your thighs (for example) if that area has relatively fewer fat cells.
I've read about dieter's edema--I believe it, subscribe to it, but I'm not losing nor do I weigh myself frequently enough to notice a whoosh. I think your tone is a bit accusatory though.
Very true! My body parts take turns when it comes to shedding fat. In some places it comes off quickly, but not so quickly in others. If I lose in my waist, then I can expect to not lose in my thighs, etc.0 -
I can see how some people could see this as BS, but it does happen.
All week I've stayed around the same weight, losing and gaining a pound, all over the place. My stomach was all squishy and really pushed out, and I just assumed it was monthly bloating, but this morning I was suddenly down 4.2 pounds.
I also did my measurements yesterday and they were pretty much the same as they were 2 weeks ago, half an inch here or there. After reading this was post I was curious so I did them again...Lost 2.5 around my navel, 1 on my hips and 1.5 on my waist. Since yesterday.
If that wasn't a "whoosh", it was magic. Haha.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Not recently, but in 2008 when I got up to 165 (then my heaviest) and decided it was time to get in shape, it happened to me.
I changed my eating from 60 healthy/40 junk to 80 healthy/20 junk, started exercising regularly, and weighed myself weekly. I started in July and though I lost 5 pounds the first month, my weight loss then stalled. I figured that I just need to keep at it and the weight had to come off eventually. Then, around the second or third week of October, I hopped on the scale for my weekly weigh in and found that I had dropped and additional 10 pounds. I think I got on and off the scale three or four times because I didn't believe it. I tried on my jeans, which I hadn't worn since before my prior weigh in and they were substantially looser. I didn't feel the "whoosh". I was completely unawared of any change until I weighed myself.
Whenever I get frustrated now because my progress is not as fast as I want it to be, I think back on that on that time. It *will* pay off eventually
Edited to add: I noticed the fat breakdown thing as well. Shortly before the whoosh happened, my belly fat got lumpy and disconnected looking and felt very much like fluid when I would pinch it.0 -
Thoughts I'm working through...
Why would water go into the fat cell in the first place? The cell is shrinking as the fat is going away. For water to enter the cell, the cell would have to be hypertonic (higher solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. Not sure why that would occur. And then what would trigger the water release? The cell would then have to become hypotonic (having a lower solute concentration) compared to the surrounding fluids. But how does the solute concentration of the surrounding fluids change based off weight loss? Hmmm…
You're on the right train of thought. Water retention is the result of electrolyte imbalance and hormonal causes. It doesn't make sense that water enters a hydrophobic fat cell without some sort of 'pump channel' forcing it into the fat cell. But studies have shown that water retention occurs post rigorous exercise. Most likely not into fat cells entirely themselves since fat cells can be composed of anywhere from 8-20% water, but surrounding areas such as subcutaneously and between other tissues as well.0 -
I think it's BS. I've taken a dramatic drop in weight (i consider 1 pound in 1 day dramatic) and spent no more time peeing than I normally do. I dropped 1 pound for two days strait a week ago and had no increased peeing habits. I actually find that I will loose more weight when I have bowel movements in the morning than urination.
If you're retaining enough excess water to affect your weight, you need to see a doctor. Other than that, your hydrated and that weight is just going to be there.
I don't think that one pound is dramatic at all.0 -
From what I have read, as adults, we have already created all the fat cells we are going to have. Some of them will die, but the body will typically regenerate new cells to replace the ones that die.
How and whether they are used is a different matter. I read studies that suggest we gain our fat cells as children which I thought was really interesting and said something about instilling better health values in our younger generations.
This is probably a whole other post in itself, but I thought you might find it interesting.
Here is a link to one of the articles I read about it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/health/research/05fat.html?_r=0
Though it is true that we produce fat cells throughout childhood and adolescence (rapid growth), we also produce/create fat cells during periods of rapid growth- like rapid weight gain and pregnancy (grumble). We are capable of producing fat cells throughout our lives. *sad panda*0 -
There's been a few threads on it the past few days, but yeah. It is actually called dieter's edema and it's pretty common and the reason weight loss is non-linear. I personally only show a loss about every three weeks to a month where I will drop 2 or 3 pounds at once.
What happens is as your body begins to empty fat cells, it replaces the lost fat in the cells with water, in anticipation of replenishing your fat supply. Because building new tissue is hard work for the body (even fat cells, believe it or not) it will attempt to keep the cells as long as possible by filling them with water.
At this point is when people notice their fat feels "squishy" or "chunky" or "dimpled" or....you get the picture.
As we stay consistent on our routines, our body has no choice but to relinquish the water and fat cells eventually and when it does, we experience the "whoosh" effect.
This can take a widely varied amount of time from person to person. My "whoosh clock" (for lack of a better term) runs 3 weeks to a month before resetting. It has run as long as 6 weeks depending on what type of exercise I do. If I am heavy lifting, it tends to run longer. I believe this is due to my sore muscles hoarding water as well!
When we take diet into consideration, things like sodium intake can cause variations in the Whoosh Clock as well.
I have read online that you can actually force the whoosh effect with certain types of exercise and diet, but I haven't tried it.
tehehehehe "whoosh clock" made me giggle out loud! 0
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