is low fat dieting that good for you...

Sarauk2sf

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Why don't you first explain to me your definition of ketosis. Thanks.

Stop deflecting

taem

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

LoveMyLife_NYC

Man... some people know how to suck all the fun out of eating. Fueling your body should never be this complicated...:noway:

Sarauk2sf

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Elleinnz

NO - my fat macro is between 35 & 40% - and I lost 120lbs........

My skin looks great, my hair and nails are great, and my cholesterol has not changed one little bit since I upped my fats....

The key is eating healthy fats - I avoid trans fats like the plague, avoid all margarine, canola ans sunflower oils....

What I do eat

Avocado oil
Coconut oil
Extra virgin olive oil
BUTTER
Salmon
Avocado
Nuts, and Nut butters
Olives
Coconut milk & Coconut cream

= Happy & Healthy girl!

taem

Man... some people know how to suck all the fun out of eating. Fueling your body should never be this complicated...:noway:

Well she started cherry picking my posts.

taem

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

Sarauk2sf

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

I read every single one. I am not sure how it got from low fat is the bee's knees to you can eat as much as you want as long as you are in ketosis, other than you not believing my macros and thinking that because I strength train I am somehow different and it makes a difference to low fat v moderate fat. It seemed that you could not understand that I can lose weight on over 1,800 calories and first it was my imaginary excessive exercise and then it was my strength training that was the culprit.

AntWrig

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Actually that's entirely not true. When gaining mass, the priority is carbohydrates. Hell even in a cutting cycle, carbohydrates play a more vital role than protein. That is why they say carbs is muscle sparing.

Many consume higher protein amounts for being satiated and I personally believe that is over blown.

mmapags

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

If eating low fat causes the convoluted and circular thinking you display, bring on the fat!!

Capt_Apollo

it's eating... not science.

AntWrig

Man... some people know how to suck all the fun out of eating. Fueling your body should never be this complicated...:noway:

Problem is that isn't. I don't have a problem with being knowledgable, I have a problem with people being close minded. Saying that low fat dieting is good for you is false, cause millions of people are healthy consuming higher fat intakes. I know people who are at 150g a day.

It's all up to the person and that must be found out through trial and error.

drmerc

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

I have no idea what ketosis is, can you explain it to me? Thanks

LaurenAOK

I'm still confused as to why being vegetarian means it's harder to get fats? I was a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for a year and had no trouble getting fats - in fact, I went over my goal some days.

As others have mentioned, nuts, avocados, cheese, eggs and the like are great for providing fats to vegetarians. I also use almond milk instead of regular milk, so I get fats that way too since it's made from nuts.

Oh and to answer the original question, I think low-fat is silly. I think low-anything is silly, actually, unless it's because of a medical condition.

Sarauk2sf

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Actually that's entirely not true. When gaining mass, the priority is carbohydrates. Hell even in a cutting cycle, carbohydrates play a more vital role than protein. That is why they say carbs is muscle sparing.

Protein is only good be satiated, and I personally believe that is over blown.

I get that carbs are extremely important with regard to energy levels, but protein is also essential for muscle growth. That is what I meant by my statement. Unless there is something else at play that I am missing.

AntWrig

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

I have no idea what ketosis is, can you explain it to me? Thanks

Ketosis is when you body uses stored fatty acids as fuel, instead of relying on carbohydrates or glucose.

jackpotclown

\m/

kimosabe1

heck yeah, or you would have high cholesterol like I do. I have 15 more pounds to lose before I can stop taking that pill every am.

AntWrig

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Actually that's entirely not true. When gaining mass, the priority is carbohydrates. Hell even in a cutting cycle, carbohydrates play a more vital role than protein. That is why they say carbs is muscle sparing.

Protein is only good be satiated, and I personally believe that is over blown.

I get that carbs are extremely important with regard to energy levels, but protein is also essential for muscle growth. That is what I meant by my statement. Unless there is something else at play that I am missing.

Calories are king. Which one is easier to do? Consuming 500g of protein or 500g of carbs, go for 500g of fat? That is why bulking on a higher fat diet is a fail. It's just damn hard to do.

AntWrig

heck yeah, or you would have high cholesterol like I do. I have 15 more pounds to lose before I can stop taking that pill every am.

High cholesterol has been largely linked to genetics and not your diet.

taem

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

Since I believe you are just here to cause trouble, I will explain. Dieting, to lose weight (not gain muscle or to become a body builder) is to lose excessive amounts of fat around your body.

This is accomplished a number of ways, but calorie restriction is primarily used in myfitnesspal. I think we can all agree on these two statements thus far.

If myfitnesspal says to limit your calories, you do it, regardless of macro percentages. After all a calorie is a calorie.
However, there are two types of weight loss diets that come up quite frequently which is a low carb and low fat camps.

Low carbers utilize ketosis, that's when the body uses fat as it's primary fuel source after about 3 days of not eating or going on a low carb intake, Atkin's calls it the induction phase. Once a low carb dieter is in a ketogenic state, they can consume fat without the fear of calories. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. Ketosis, remember, switches your body's primary fuel source only until you eat enough carbs for the body to then switch back, then those fat calories will really take affect on your body's calorie count.

low fat dieters don't use ketois and instead, calorie counts by eating foods such as veggies and fruits and limit their fat to lose weight. They will eat higher percentages of fat to maintain their weight after their dieting is over.

But the OP asked if low fat dieting that good for you...

I replied it is a great way to lose weight. I also said there are certain types of fats that are not so good and some that just plain stink. But I did acknowledge that low fat is necessary.

Dr. Atkins and Dr. McDougall both promote an all you can eat diet, but I believe there is some form of calorie restriction (I mean you can't eat 8000 calories of veggies at once, it would take too long and you can't eat tons of meat either, your stomach will be way too full). Both diets follow some type of restriction.

You can listen to their debate for free: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Thanks for the discussion.

Bakkasan

Getting to a healthy weight is good for you. The path you take is a personal choice. IT doesn't matter if you low carb low fat high carb twinkies etc etc. Just follow a sustainable path for you.

It's the assclowns on the internet, myself included, who muddy the water and confuse people.

Sarauk2sf

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Actually that's entirely not true. When gaining mass, the priority is carbohydrates. Hell even in a cutting cycle, carbohydrates play a more vital role than protein. That is why they say carbs is muscle sparing.

Protein is only good be satiated, and I personally believe that is over blown.

I get that carbs are extremely important with regard to energy levels, but protein is also essential for muscle growth. That is what I meant by my statement. Unless there is something else at play that I am missing.

Calories are king. Which one is easier to do? Consuming 500g of protein or 500g of carbs, go for 500g of fat? That is why bulking on a higher fat diet is a fail. It's just damn hard to do.

I totally get that its calories, but you need a certain amount of protein and fat - the rest can come from wherever is easiest and what gives you more energy - which I agree is generally carbs.

Sarauk2sf

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

Since I believe you are just here to cause trouble, I will explain. Dieting, to lose weight (not gain muscle or to become a body builder) is to lose excessive amounts of fat around your body.

This is accomplished a number of ways, but calorie restriction is primarily used in myfitnesspal. I think we can all agree on these two statements thus far.

If myfitnesspal says to limit your calories, you do it, regardless of macro percentages. After all a calorie is a calorie.
However, there are two types of weight loss diets that come up quite frequently which is a low carb and low fat camps.

Low carbers utilize ketosis, that's when the body uses fat as it's primary fuel source after about 3 days of not eating or going on a low carb intake, Atkin's calls it the induction phase. Once a low carb dieter is in a ketogenic state, they can consume fat without the fear of calories. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. Ketosis, remember, switches your body's primary fuel source only until you eat enough carbs for the body to then switch back, then those fat calories will really take affect on your body's calorie count.

low fat dieters don't use ketois and instead, calorie counts by eating foods such as veggies and fruits and limit their fat to lose weight. They will eat higher percentages of fat to maintain their weight after their dieting is over.

But the OP asked if low fat dieting that good for you...

I replied it is a great way to lose weight. I also said there are certain types of fats that are not so good and some that just plain stink. But I did acknowledge that low fat is necessary.

Dr. Atkins and Dr. McDougall both promote an all you can eat diet, but I believe there is some form of calorie restriction (I mean you can't eat 8000 calories of veggies at once, it would take too long and you can't eat tons of meat either, your stomach will be way too full). Both diets follow some type of restriction.

You can listen to their debate for free: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Thanks for the discussion.

I am just here to cause trouble? You make claims and when asked for support you accuse someone of only being here to cause trouble - you are a very rude and defensive man.

And your last full paragraph explains how it works - basically it is a way to restrict calories. Long term, there is not evidence that low carb is better for fat loss than a basic low calorie diet.

Also, you say you acknowledge low fat is necessary. How/when? I would ask the paleo folks about that.

And if you are such a fan, why are you not doing it?

Sarauk2sf

OP: sorry your thread got derailed and in the interests of not derailing it further I am out of here as they say. At the end of the day moderate fat diets are fine - just try to get your fats from a mix of different sources.

taem

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

Since I believe you are just here to cause trouble, I will explain. Dieting, to lose weight (not gain muscle or to become a body builder) is to lose excessive amounts of fat around your body.

This is accomplished a number of ways, but calorie restriction is primarily used in myfitnesspal. I think we can all agree on these two statements thus far.

If myfitnesspal says to limit your calories, you do it, regardless of macro percentages. After all a calorie is a calorie.
However, there are two types of weight loss diets that come up quite frequently which is a low carb and low fat camps.

Low carbers utilize ketosis, that's when the body uses fat as it's primary fuel source after about 3 days of not eating or going on a low carb intake, Atkin's calls it the induction phase. Once a low carb dieter is in a ketogenic state, they can consume fat without the fear of calories. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. Ketosis, remember, switches your body's primary fuel source only until you eat enough carbs for the body to then switch back, then those fat calories will really take affect on your body's calorie count.

low fat dieters don't use ketois and instead, calorie counts by eating foods such as veggies and fruits and limit their fat to lose weight. They will eat higher percentages of fat to maintain their weight after their dieting is over.

But the OP asked if low fat dieting that good for you...

I replied it is a great way to lose weight. I also said there are certain types of fats that are not so good and some that just plain stink. But I did acknowledge that low fat is necessary.

Dr. Atkins and Dr. McDougall both promote an all you can eat diet, but I believe there is some form of calorie restriction (I mean you can't eat 8000 calories of veggies at once, it would take too long and you can't eat tons of meat either, your stomach will be way too full). Both diets follow some type of restriction.

You can listen to their debate for free: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Thanks for the discussion.

I am just here to cause trouble? You make claims and when asked for support you accuse someone of only being here to cause trouble - you are a very rude and defensive man.

And your last full paragraph explains how it works - basically it is a way to restrict calories. Long term, there is not evidence that low carb is better for fat loss than a basic low calorie diet.

Also, you say you acknowledge low fat is necessary. How/when? I would ask the paleo folks about that.

And if you are such a fan, why are you not doing it?

Again, you are not reading all my posts, which suggest you are cherry picking I did suggest why I am not using Paleo or Atkins. I am not rude nor defensive. I asked you many times to define ketosis which you did not and then I defined my position yet again. You do not actually take part of the conversation but you question my opinions without reading all of them, seems you are the instigator. Either way, have fun with your diet.

jackpotclown

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question

If you really want to discuss it, then you tell me your definition as I have explained it already.

That is not the way this works. You made a claim - it's up to you to support it. If you cannot, then your argument is invalid.

Until you can, I am done as this thread has been completely derailed by some rather delusional thinking.

Stop cherry picking and read my posts. That means all of it. Thank you.

Since I believe you are just here to cause trouble, I will explain. Dieting, to lose weight (not gain muscle or to become a body builder) is to lose excessive amounts of fat around your body.

This is accomplished a number of ways, but calorie restriction is primarily used in myfitnesspal. I think we can all agree on these two statements thus far.

If myfitnesspal says to limit your calories, you do it, regardless of macro percentages. After all a calorie is a calorie.
However, there are two types of weight loss diets that come up quite frequently which is a low carb and low fat camps.

Low carbers utilize ketosis, that's when the body uses fat as it's primary fuel source after about 3 days of not eating or going on a low carb intake, Atkin's calls it the induction phase. Once a low carb dieter is in a ketogenic state, they can consume fat without the fear of calories. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. Ketosis, remember, switches your body's primary fuel source only until you eat enough carbs for the body to then switch back, then those fat calories will really take affect on your body's calorie count.

low fat dieters don't use ketois and instead, calorie counts by eating foods such as veggies and fruits and limit their fat to lose weight. They will eat higher percentages of fat to maintain their weight after their dieting is over.

But the OP asked if low fat dieting that good for you...

I replied it is a great way to lose weight. I also said there are certain types of fats that are not so good and some that just plain stink. But I did acknowledge that low fat is necessary.

Dr. Atkins and Dr. McDougall both promote an all you can eat diet, but I believe there is some form of calorie restriction (I mean you can't eat 8000 calories of veggies at once, it would take too long and you can't eat tons of meat either, your stomach will be way too full). Both diets follow some type of restriction.

You can listen to their debate for free: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Thanks for the discussion.

I am just here to cause trouble? You make claims and when asked for support you accuse someone of only being here to cause trouble - you are a very rude and defensive man.

And your last full paragraph explains how it works - basically it is a way to restrict calories. Long term, there is not evidence that low carb is better for fat loss than a basic low calorie diet.

Also, you say you acknowledge low fat is necessary. How/when? I would ask the paleo folks about that.

And if you are such a fan, why are you not doing it?

Again, you are not reading all my posts, which suggest you are cherry picking I did suggest why I am not using Paleo or Atkins. I am not rude nor defensive. I asked you many times to define ketosis which you did not and then I defined my position yet again. You do not actually take part of the conversation but you question my opinions without reading all of them, seems you are the instigator. Either way, have fun with your diet.

\m/

jetscreaminagain

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I believe Atkins was wrong.

But that's the thing, for dieting, even the twinkies diet will help you to lose weight. If you want to gain muscle, that's a way different type of diet.

These types of diet bantering can be avoided if the OP mentions what his or her purpose is: lose weight, be a body builder.

You do not build muscle on a deficit and the main macro that people who want to maintain LBM or gain it while on a surplus are focused on is protein - so how does that fit into your equation?

Why don't you first explain to me your definition of ketosis. Thanks.

I feel the need to suggest that this poster works their diet and doesn't let their diet work them

The *most* important follow up is now, "what's your stance on tae bo? "

Cranktastic