bullies...

artickb22

Hell yes! Use it as motivation or humor...I've gotten many a kicks out of "negative" responses.

ihad

Very thoughtful and well put.

BinaryPulsar

When I went to college to become a dancer I had an observation.

A lot of people were over confident and showed up thinking they were advanced dancers and already knew everything, that they were so good they could change the whole dance department to be exactly like them. They didn't like getting put in the "beginner" class because all freshman got put in the beginner class. When they showed their choreography the teachers were harsh and would knock them down a few pegs and people would say that the toughest teachers just didn't like any of the dance the students did. And the students that were able to make it through the dance department eventually ended up being thankful that the teachers had been so tough on them (others transferred out to a school they preferred or they didn't major in dance).

I was coming from a very different place. I did not have a lot of confidence (I knew I had talent and passion, but I also knew that I needed to learn to utilize it in the best ways). I did see myself as a beginner. And I knew I had a lot to learn and I wanted to learn. The beginner label didn't bother me, it was the normal starting place. The teachers never knocked me down because I was open to feedback and learning. I didn't need to waste my time with that process. I showed my choreography, I got feedback, then I went back and worked on it some more. I asked questions. The teachers wanted to work with me and I enjoyed working with them and gained a lot from it. And the "toughest" teacher said something that always stuck with me she told me that as a dancer I should always "check people's references" before giving any value to their opinion on my dancing. Don't give any weight to the opinion of any random person that is uneducated and inexperienced and has no success as a dancer or an artist (or a person that just likes to drag others down because they are not happy or successful or people that are afraid to be creative and try new things). Don't ever let people like that influence the choices I make in my dancing or how I feel about my own work. Instead listen to the people who have good references to back their opinions up.

I'm not sure I relate to the need for motivation from other people because I don't need other people to motivate me. My motivation is my own and always has been. I'm not sure if this story related to any of this, but I guess it's just an observation about people and how different people work. Some people don't benefit from people being tough with them, but I guess those people don't behave in a way that makes toughness be what is given because they are already tough on themselves and are open to learning and growing. This isn't to say I haven't had life experiences that caused me to stumble along the way. I have. But, I have always taken responsibility for myself and never expected anyone to give me something that I didn't earn.

LorinaLynn

And the "toughest" teacher said something that always stuck with me she told me that as a dancer I should always "check people's references" before giving any value to their opinion on my dancing.

That's brilliant, and reminds me of how my Mom used to always say, "Consider the source." I was picked on in school because I was skinny, nerdy, poor, dressed funny and had thick glasses and crooked teeth. But the people who picked on me were mean and nasty. Why should I care what a mean, nasty person thinks? I didn't want to be friends with someone like that.

Someone says something you think is mean? So what? Why do you care what a random stranger on the internet says? Why value their opinion?

Rum_Runner

I guess maybe it depends on the person? a person who is looking to have someone hold their hand would be offended if they got "motivational bullying" from someone who told them to suck it up. Someone who is looking for some tough love would find that if they got advice from someone who is a personal cheerleader, it might be a waste of time. Maybe if it were tailored? based on the persons personality it might not seem as though they are being bullied?

Thats the purpose of getting like minded friends. Your friends should have similar goals and have similar attitude. My FL is kick *kitten* bunch of girls/guys who know me well enough to cheer me up on a bad day or tell me to suck it up when I'm being whiney. They push me and challenge me beyond what I *think* I can do.

But if you're going to post in the open forum be ready for all types of motivational responses. Many may not be what the OP wants to hear - but that is the risk one takes by posting for all to see!! If you don't want that type of response....keep your issues to your wall and let your friends coddle you.

Jim1960

To the OP people come from all sorts of different places and their goals are different too. What may motivate one person may totally destroy another. One person may want that hard body, another just wants to be more healthy. The only thing I would suggest is to answer in kind with the nature of the post you're replying to. For myself, the rare kick-in-the-pants from a friend might be useful. But generally not. I'm not trying to win or take it to the next level. That whole paradigm is wrong for me. For me I need to change my entire attitude about food, change my habits and so forth.

I was a bit of an athlete when I was younger, and I totally get the nature of pushing yourself to get over the hurdles. Of taking things to the next level. But that really doesn't apply in my case with regards to my diet. It really doesn't. And because of that, the harsh - "stop your whining and get up and do it" approach just doesn't do anything for me except make me want to ignore you. My determination comes from a different place. My success, such as there is, isn't coming from overcoming obstacles as much as it is being consistent. Now, if you were with me and I was drooling over that bit of chocolate cake and complaining about how "I can't ever eat that again" - then sure; tell me to quit my whining and skip the cake. But otherwise, for me, please don't.

sissiluv

I think there's a difference between calling someone a "fatass whale who can't do anything right much less get their life under control", and telling someone to "get off their *kitten* and finish their daily exercise goal for the day, it doesn't matter if you feel like you're going to hurl you can effing do it now DO IT".

I think so long as you're being constructive and you're not hurling insults, you're A-OK in my book.

BinaryPulsar

And the "toughest" teacher said something that always stuck with me she told me that as a dancer I should always "check people's references" before giving any value to their opinion on my dancing.

That's brilliant, and reminds me of how my Mom used to always say, "Consider the source." I was picked on in school because I was skinny, nerdy, poor, dressed funny and had thick glasses and crooked teeth. But the people who picked on me were mean and nasty. Why should I care what a mean, nasty person thinks? I didn't want to be friends with someone like that.

Someone says something you think is mean? So what? Why do you care what a random stranger on the internet says? Why value their opinion?

gingerveg

When I went to college to become a dancer I had an observation.

A lot of people were over confident and showed up thinking they were advanced dancers and already knew everything, that they were so good they could change the whole dance department to be exactly like them. They didn't like getting put in the "beginner" class because all freshman got put in the beginner class. When they showed their choreography the teachers were harsh and would knock them down a few pegs and people would say that the toughest teachers just didn't like any of the dance the students did. And the students that were able to make it through the dance department eventually ended up being thankful that the teachers had been so tough on them (others transferred out to a school they preferred or they didn't major in dance).

I was coming from a very different place. I did not have a lot of confidence (I knew I had talent and passion, but I also knew that I needed to learn to utilize it in the best ways). I did see myself as a beginner. And I knew I had a lot to learn and I wanted to learn. The beginner label didn't bother me, it was the normal starting place. The teachers never knocked me down because I was open to feedback and learning. I didn't need to waste my time with that process. I showed my choreography, I got feedback, then I went back and worked on it some more. I asked questions. The teachers wanted to work with me and I enjoyed working with them and gained a lot from it. And the "toughest" teacher said something that always stuck with me she told me that as a dancer I should always "check people's references" before giving any value to their opinion on my dancing. Don't give any weight to the opinion of any random person that is uneducated and inexperienced and has no success as a dancer or an artist (or a person that just likes to drag others down because they are not happy or successful or people that are afraid to be creative and try new things). Don't ever let people like that influence the choices I make in my dancing or how I feel about my own work. Instead listen to the people who have good references to back their opinions up.

I'm not sure I relate to the need for motivation from other people because I don't need other people to motivate me. My motivation is my own and always has been. I'm not sure if this story related to any of this, but I guess it's just an observation about people and how different people work. Some people don't benefit from people being tough with them, but I guess those people don't behave in a way that makes toughness be what is given because they are already tough on themselves and are open to learning and growing. This isn't to say I haven't had life experiences that caused me to stumble along the way. I have. But, I have always taken responsibility for myself and never expected anyone to give me something that I didn't earn.

Bravo darling!

Rum_Runner

I love this post! Yes, many of us have been there time and time again. If we keep saying "I can't do it", we won't...but tell yourself "I CAN DO THIS", and see what happens. Sometimes you can even be impressed by your own awesomeness! :drinker:

"If you think you can or you think you can not....you're right" ~Henry Ford

tross0924

Encouragement is the best tact.

Being frank leads some to be ashamed they can't measure up to thers and quit.

If you're going to quit because someone says something you don't like, you're going to quit because a fly landed on your protein bar so you HAD to eat the donut. In other words you're looking for an excuse.

Stand up. Be strong. Do what's hard. And be what you want to be instead of what you believe that you have to be.

PikaKnight

Just recently I was whining about how I hadn't gotten in a workout that I had wanted to do and an MFP buddy said, "Then do it already!!"

That could have been taken as "being mean" but I took it as motivation and BAM! I got it done because I realized I was just looking for an excuse not to do it and to be okay with not doing it.

There are some things that are fine to say "Great job" and "Don't worry, you'll do better tomorrow." But if I am whining about something that I have control over and can actually remedy...then I would prefer someone say, "Shut up and get moving!!! The longer you whine, the longer it is going to take for you to get it done."

To me - things like this are motivating or/and the truth I NEED to hear...not the sympathy I think I "want" to hear.

nfrewin

Just recently I was whining about how I hadn't gotten in a workout that I had wanted to do and an MFP buddy said, "Then do it already!!"

That could have been taken as "being mean" but I took it as motivation and BAM! I got it done because I realized I was just looking for an excuse not to do it and to be okay with not doing it.

There are some things that are fine to say "Great job" and "Don't worry, you'll do better tomorrow." But if I am whining about something that I have control over and can actually remedy...then I would prefer someone say, "Shut up and get moving!!! The longer you whine, the longer it is going to take for you to get it done."

To me - things like this are motivating or/and the truth I NEED to hear...not the sympathy I think I "want" to hear.

EXACTLY!! I don't want friends who will say 'you can do better tomorrow' - I want friends that'll say 'do better NOW' lol

baddbob

I haven't seen much bullying on MFP. I have seen some intolerance for others' views. I've seen some people jump on others. Jumping on others and being intolerant of others' opinions is something I've never had patience for. I always respect others' opinions no matter how far off their logic is. Sometimes I will give my opinion back, but never disrespecting their opinion. Now....having said that, if pushed, I can tear people to shreds in any argument, but I choose not to do that. The good thing about these "blog" type forums, is that you can choose to ignore the people who hide behind harsh words on the Internet.

It's okay to give encouragement and but you can really only give the "tough love" to someone once you have earned the right to do so through building a relationship. Another thing people need to keep in mind is that if you have "thin skin," you probably should only keep your remarks within your close circle of friends. You venture out into Blogland and you have better toughen up some. Never ask for an opinion in the "Blogoshere" unless you are prepared to hear things you don't want to hear.

ladytinkerbell99

Personally, I find that being kind and supportive "You can do this! Go for it!" far more motivating than "Quit your whining and just do it!" But maybe that's just me.

^ I like this.:flowerforyou:

ladytinkerbell99

I haven't seen much bullying on MFP. I have seen some intolerance for others' views. I've seen some people jump on others. Jumping on others and being intolerant of others' opinions is something I've never had patience for. I always respect others' opinions no matter how far off their logic is. Sometimes I will give my opinion back, but never disrespecting their opinion. Now....having said that, if pushed, I can tear people to shreds in any argument, but I choose not to do that. The good thing about these "blog" type forums, is that you can choose to ignore the people who hide behind harsh words on the Internet.

It's okay to give encouragement and but you can really only give the "tough love" to someone once you have earned the right to do so through building a relationship. Another thing people need to keep in mind is that if you have "thin skin," you probably should only keep your remarks within your close circle of friends. You venture out into Blogland and you have better toughen up some. Never ask for an opinion in the "Blogoshere" unless you are prepared to hear things you don't want to hear.

^ Thank you, BB. This is so true. Also, something to remember in "real life". :flowerforyou:

Molly_Maguire

Well said, great post!

RhineDHP

Personally, I find that being kind and supportive "You can do this! Go for it!" far more motivating than "Quit your whining and just do it!" But maybe that's just me.

^ I like this.:flowerforyou:

I like this too..

AlsDonkBoxSquat

So tell me... what is the pay-off for the pain? I don't like pain and so far I have not found the benefit to the suffering. I just am in pain. I have strength and stamina but pain means injury for me. Why should I keep doing what hurts?

There's a difference between the pain caused by injury and the discomfort brought on by pushing your believed limits and crushing through that mental wall. One you need to see a doctor to help you manage, the other one you need to take 2 Advil, ice it, then suck it up and do it all over again. If you are exercising and you are comfortable you're probably not doing it right and listening to the I can't in your head will set you back while pushing your perceived boundaries will push you forward. Pushing through actually physical pain can take you out of the game for month in end if you're not using your doctors advice.

MireyGal76

Thank you to everyone for your responses and insights! Loved them All!!!

Personally, I've always tried to be the type to respond using the "sandwich method": point out a strength, offer suggestion for growth or improvement, and then end with another strength point. It makes the growth opportunity easier to handle.

The point of my post was not to advocate for people to be mean, but rather to offer a perspective on the sometimes tough love that is dished.

The child walking analogy wasn't developed enough in my original post. I think we (as a community) sometimes forget that even though we are all adults, some of us are still fitness babies. Some people are testing out the fitness waters for the first time, and they are tentative and wary, and barely even able to crawl. Those people may require extra affirmation and "coddling" than those who've been around and are just defiantly set in their ways. If those people get yelled at, they may turtle, run away, and lick their wounds until they're miserable with themselves enough to try again.

It takes a keen eye to read (based on a post) what stage a person is at, and respond accordingly. But this is how I see it play out often on the MFP threads...

Person posts with a bit of "why isn't my life changing, I need help, woe is me, I can't do it, it's too hard, it's not my fault, etc".

Some responses:
- "YAY yes you can, Rah Rah Rah"
- "you can, but it's gonna take work, are you up to the challenge"
- "suck it up, it's tough but doable, see, I did it"
- and yes, some will say "don't be a stupid whiny assed baby" -- those responses are not often in the first round


The response of the OP to the initial responses, is often what clues people into the stage they're in. If they feel out for more info, thank the responders for the guidance, and maybe respond a little hurt to the tougher love, then they're often in the newbie baby stage.

If they lash out and call everyone stupid who doesn't agree with them, THATs when it gets nasty, because they're taking on the 'teenager stage'... the "I can walk if I set my mind to it, but damn you for telling me to walk and I'll walk when I'm darn good and ready". Egos flare up, the tough love starts flying, the sarcasm flares up, the memes get posted and the thread gets locked.

If they respond with "hell yeah, you're right, I am being lazy... but I STILL NEED HELP!"... then they're well on their way, and would do well friending the tough lovers, because they thrive on that too.

The forums can be a tough body of water to swim in, but in all, there really aren't that many sharks.

Again, I'd just encourage people to be gentle but firm with each other, and not be so quick to assume a person is mean because they're challenging you.

:-D

AlsDonkBoxSquat

Personally, I find that being kind and supportive "You can do this! Go for it!" far more motivating than "Quit your whining and just do it!" But maybe that's just me.

^ I like this.:flowerforyou:

I like this too..

Personally I prefer the accountability of "why are you so focused on what they're doing? Own your **** and let them own theirs." Actually,I prefer any approach thy reminds me that I am accountable for myself and my actions and my excuses. My results are the direct result of my decisions, and I think it's so easy to lose sight of that. Not saying that I don't have some great "woohoo" guys and girls in my corner cheering me as I push, and not to say that I don't do the same for them. We all have bad days and need a little pick me up, but on the good days and the bad days I'm the only one reaching in panty drawer and deciding if I'm wearing the thong or the pull up.

RhineDHP

Personally, I find that being kind and supportive "You can do this! Go for it!" far more motivating than "Quit your whining and just do it!" But maybe that's just me.

^ I like this.:flowerforyou:

I like this too..

but on the good days and the bad days I'm the only one reaching in panty drawer and deciding if I'm wearing the thong or the pull up.

I like that analogy, haha

g0hard0rg0h0me00

You are in amazing shape and I know it took work to get there. You're completely right and I agree with your example that telling a kid to shut up and quit whining when they are learning to wall isn't appropriate, but people do need encouragement and a kick in the butt. It's not easy to accomplish goals.

LorinaLynn

Sometimes, too, I think people don't realize just how many people use this site, and that a bunch of people expressing the same opinion isn't some kind of hive mentality, but a group of individuals who are voicing their opinions. Then the OP gets defensive, thinking their getting ganged up on, rather than logically thinking, "Hey, if this many people are saying this, maybe there's some truth to it. Maybe this is something I should look into."

Plus, I think a lot of times, the people who get offended by the responses aren't looking for advice or opinions, but validation. They don't want to hear that they have free will and don't have to eat the Christmas cookies at work, or that they can order something healthier than a Big Mac or plate of nachos no matter where they go out with friends or family, they want to hear that their coworkers or friends or family are insensitive, jealous saboteurs for even offering a cookie or going out to eat.

And back to the kid learning to walk analogy... Kids seem to understand that they're going to fall down when they're learning to walk or ride a bike. They might need their boo-boos kissed, but they never quit. The get back up and try again, even knowing they're going to fall again.

That's something we need to remember as adults, that "failure" is part of the process. It's perfectly normal to sometimes eat too much, to sometimes gain a few pounds, to sometimes not be able to complete a workout that we know damn well we should be able to complete, to have a day we just want to stay in bed, to get sidelined by an injury. None of that makes us failures. The only thing that makes us failures is quitting.

MireyGal76

Sometimes, too, I think people don't realize just how many people use this site, and that a bunch of people expressing the same opinion isn't some kind of hive mentality, but a group of individuals who are voicing their opinions. Then the OP gets defensive, thinking their getting ganged up on, rather than logically thinking, "Hey, if this many people are saying this, maybe there's some truth to it. Maybe this is something I should look into."

Plus, I think a lot of times, the people who get offended by the responses aren't looking for advice or opinions, but validation. They don't want to hear that they have free will and don't have to eat the Christmas cookies at work, or that they can order something healthier than a Big Mac or plate of nachos no matter where they go out with friends or family, they want to hear that their coworkers or friends or family are insensitive, jealous saboteurs for even offering a cookie or going out to eat.

And back to the kid learning to walk analogy... Kids seem to understand that they're going to fall down when they're learning to walk or ride a bike. They might need their boo-boos kissed, but they never quit. The get back up and try again, even knowing they're going to fall again.

That's something we need to remember as adults, that "failure" is part of the process. It's perfectly normal to sometimes eat too much, to sometimes gain a few pounds, to sometimes not be able to complete a workout that we know damn well we should be able to complete, to have a day we just want to stay in bed, to get sidelined by an injury. None of that makes us failures. The only thing that makes us failures is quitting.

A M E N Sister!!!