carb/fat/protein ratio

finding_sammi

thanks to OP for this Q!!!! This is EXACTLY where I am on the journey, so will read all the replies with interest!

Minki1990

I have mine set at:

Protein - 40%
Carbs - 30%
Fat - 30%

Oishii

To lose body fat, yet maintain what muscle I have --- I eat 50% protein/30% carbs/20% fat.

Once I am settled where I would like to be, I plan to go with a more balanced approach. Maybe 40/40/20 or 40/30/30.

Yes, to maintain muscle, you should aim for 1g protein per lb bodyweight. For myself, it ends around 50%, and I was at 20% carbs, 30% fat since 100g carbs per day is kind of a magic number to keep your glycogen supplies up for daily activities, yet deplete them from exercise, forcing your body to convert fat for glycogen. If that isn't there, it WILL convert protein for it but it generally does that as a last resort. With my split, I ended up feeling a little too run down though after a hard day at work, so I moved it to a 45% protein 25% carb 30% fat split. I have more energy now through the day.

I think you'll find fat doesn't convert to glycogen, it's protein that does that.

You are right, I should have said energy not glycogen. What I wanted to add came from this article:

"The first thing the body burns is protein, mainly because protein cannot be stored in the body. Proteins from alcohol are burned first followed by other proteins. These nutrients are dispersed in the bloodstream and any excess is channeled towards the excretory system to be removed from the body. Thus, you can rarely complain that your body has too much protein. Next, the body burns carbohydrates, both simple and complex, with glycogen being its main form. Glycogen is sugar stored mostly in the liver and controls blood sugar levels as well as providing most of the energy the body needs. Once glycogen has been used up, the body then burns up fat, breaking it down into smaller units to be absorbed in the blood stream. Muscle comes last. Thus, the answer to the question ‘does the body burn fat or muscle first’ is fat.

The idea that the body burns muscle first before fat may come from the fact that glycogen is also stored in muscle tissues. However, it is the glycogen in them and not the tissues themselves that get burned."

What is the source of that article?

dazza_098

i try going between 50 and 100g carbs, 1g protein per pound of body weight minus body fat weight which in my case is between 150g and 160g then the rest is fat
between 50 and 100 grams of carbs is a primal fat loss sweet spot and 100 - 150 is normally maintenance for most people

fat cant be converted to glucose but if your body doesnt get enough glucose then it will convert protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis but will mainly power as much of your body as it can with ketones through a body state called ketosis.

jayche

How can you say that when you do not know how many calories they are on?

Not sure what you're getting at here, I'm simply giving my OP an opinion based on the information given... is it liable to change in light of new information? Absolutely.

Also, I've seen recommendations ranging from 1.2-1.7g per KG of bodyweight for athletes with the higher end for strength athletes and the lower end for endurance (Alan Aragon + Eric Helms mention this in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA, dig around and you'll find other credible sources saying the same thing). This would roughly equate to ~0.55-0.80g (I'm guesstimating here, forgive me if my math is a little off) of protein per unit of bodyweight in pounds. This does not mean you will not make gains off of 1g per 1 pound of bodyweight, it simply means you won't stop making gains if you happened to have a lower protein intake.

pixietoes

To lose body fat, yet maintain what muscle I have --- I eat 50% protein/30% carbs/20% fat.

That's what I do, and the carbs I choose do not include any starch or sugar. It has made ALL the difference for me. My fat loss has been dramatically different than the last time I lost weight successfully, I was using South Beach guidelines at the time. Continuing to eat even healthy starches was harder on my body, it doesn't work that way for everyone but you have to figure out what works for you.

When I reach my goal I will bring whole grains and beans and fruits back in and figure out which ones work well with my body. I'm also looking forward to being able to enjoy a glass of wine, LOL

Sarauk2sf

How does 50% carbs, 20% protein, 30% fat sound?
Is that too little protein?

This is the macro split I try to follow, 20% protein is more than in enough

How can you say that when you do not know how many calories they are on?

Not sure what you're getting at here, I'm simply giving my OP an opinion based on the information given... is it liable to change in light of new information? Absolutely.

Also, I've seen recommendations ranging from 1.2-1.7g per KG of bodyweight for athletes with the higher end for strength athletes and the lower end for endurance (Alan Aragon + Eric Helms mention this in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA, dig around and you'll find other credible sources saying the same thing). This would roughly equate to ~0.55-0.80g (I'm guesstimating here, forgive me if my math is a little off) of protein per unit of bodyweight in pounds. This does not mean you will not make gains off of 1g per 1 pound of bodyweight, it simply means you won't stop making gains if you happened to have a lower protein intake.

I am aware of these recommendations and have watched Aragon's roundtable's. My point was - and I have added back the quotes you missed off, how can you say 20% is fine when you do not know what that equates to in g or in g as a % of either LBM or body weight - the OP gave neither. If she is on a 1,200 calorie intake, that equals 240 calories which equals 60g, This is not that much higher than the RDA which in studies, which if you follow Aragon and Helms you will know, has been shown to be sub-optimal, especially for people in a deficit and who are strength training.

Helloitsdan

.70-1g protein per pound of LBM.
.40-.70g fat per pound of LBM.

Ignore the carb cutting others push unless you are allergic to certain carbs.

Sarauk2sf

.70-1g protein per pound of LBM.
.40-.70g fat per pound of LBM.

Ignore the carb cutting others push unless you are allergic to certain carbs.

Where are you getting the fat rations from Dan? I have always seen them expressed as g per body weight, not LBM.

neanderthin

How can you say that when you do not know how many calories they are on?

Not sure what you're getting at here, I'm simply giving my OP an opinion based on the information given... is it liable to change in light of new information? Absolutely.

Also, I've seen recommendations ranging from 1.2-1.7g per KG of bodyweight for athletes with the higher end for strength athletes and the lower end for endurance (Alan Aragon + Eric Helms mention this in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA, dig around and you'll find other credible sources saying the same thing). This would roughly equate to ~0.55-0.80g (I'm guesstimating here, forgive me if my math is a little off) of protein per unit of bodyweight in pounds. This does not mean you will not make gains off of 1g per 1 pound of bodyweight, it simply means you won't stop making gains if you happened to have a lower protein intake.

I think what sara means is, for example. 20% of 1200 calories 60 g's and if you take lean mass for intake fo example and someone with 30% body fat that weighs 150 lbs would probably be too low, or at least not the amount they would consume if they went by the 1g/b/lbm. While protein intake for building muscle can vary quite a bit imo, but when dieting, especially if soeone picks a low intake, protein intake can suffer, again im.

katevarner

I have mine set at 45/30/25 (c/f/p), but I usually eat more protein than that. My LBM is 88 lbs. and 25% of my usually 2200 calories is kinda high for that (almost 1.5), so I try not to go crazy high, but sometimes end up eat 2xLBM and still staying around 25 or 30%. Other days I go way over on carbs, tho, so I feel like it evens out, and I'm maintaining over the last almost 3 months, so it's working--just try to make sure to lose you eat at a deficit and you will be fine unless as Dan says you are particularly sensitive to carbs.

jayche

I am aware of these recommendations and have watched Aragon's roundtable's. My point was - and I have added back the quotes you missed off, how can you say 20% is fine when you do not know what that equates to in g or in g as a % of either LBM or body weight - the OP gave neither. If she is on a 1,200 calorie intake, that equals 240 calories which equals 60g, This is not that much higher than the RDA which in studies, which if you follow Aragon and Helms you will know, has been shown to be sub-optimal, especially for people in a deficit and who are strength training.

I section off the quotes to avoid giant quote boxes, I don't mean to take anything you say out of context. As for your comment on optimization... doing strength training while on a 1,200 calorie diet is sub-optimal period. And that is IF she is in a 1,200 calorie diet, but since we're playing the "'if' game"... suppose it's the other way around and she is on a 2000+ calorie diet, would your argument against my statement still stand?

Sarauk2sf

I am aware of these recommendations and have watched Aragon's roundtable's. My point was - and I have added back the quotes you missed off, how can you say 20% is fine when you do not know what that equates to in g or in g as a % of either LBM or body weight - the OP gave neither. If she is on a 1,200 calorie intake, that equals 240 calories which equals 60g, This is not that much higher than the RDA which in studies, which if you follow Aragon and Helms you will know, has been shown to be sub-optimal, especially for people in a deficit and who are strength training.

I section off the quotes to avoid giant quote boxes, I don't mean to take anything you say out of context. As for your comment on optimization... doing strength training while on a 1,200 calorie diet is sub-optimal period. And that is IF she is in a 1,200 calorie diet, but since we're playing the "'if' game"... suppose it's the other way around and she is on a 2000+ calorie diet, would your argument against my statement still stand?

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

I am not playing the guessing game and that is exactly what I am trying to get at.

jayche

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

How can you say otherwise without knowing her calories or weight?

Sarauk2sf

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

How can you say otherwise without knowing her calories or weight?

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal. Where did I say it was not?

jayche

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal.

And there are more than a myriad of possibilities where it is... where are we getting with this?
There are a myriad of possibilities of everything (as in every macro split) not being optimal, which is why I also stated (first page of this thread).

Everyone needs to play with their numbers a little bit and see what works for them!

contingencyplan

Different persons have tried different things and had it work for them. How you train is also a factor, whether your preferred training methods are short-duration/high intensity, or long-duration/moderate intensity. Personally I'm doing 35%c/35%p/30%f and it's working for me.

Sarauk2sf

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal.

And there are more than a myriad of possibilities where it is... where are we getting with this?
There are a myriad of possibilities of everything (as in every macro split) not being optimal, which is why I also stated (first page of this thread).

Everyone needs to play with their numbers a little bit and see what works for them!

I am not trying to get anywhere - just to point out that it is better to find out more information that to say something like 20% is ok. I am not sure why that is such a hard concept or why it requires such debate,

SideSteel

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

How can you say otherwise without knowing her calories or weight?

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal. Where did I say it was not?

This ^

Example: when I near the end of my cut, I'm at 2100 calories. 20% of this would be 420 calories which would be about 105g protein. This is insufficient.

However when bulking, I consume ~3200 or so. 20% is 640 calories or 160g protein. This is much closer to being a reasonable intake.

This is an example of how protein values change as calories change when you recommend a percentage instead of a target in grams per lb.

I believe this was Sara's point and she is correct to raise the question, IMO.

jayche

I am not trying to get anywhere - just to point out that it is better to find out more information that to say something like 20% is ok. I am not sure why that is such a hard concept or why it requires such debate,

Not sure why you continued the discussion/debate after I mentioned this then...

...I'm simply giving my OP an opinion based on the information given... is it liable to change in light of new information? Absolutely.

Edit: By my own admission I said my recommendation would change if new information was the surface that would put protein intake at a sub-optimal standard, but my opinion still stands that 50c/20p/30f would still work for the majority of caloric intake levels (at least more than any other % based formula).

Crankstr

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

How can you say otherwise without knowing her calories or weight?

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal. Where did I say it was not?

This ^

Example: when I near the end of my cut, I'm at 2100 calories. 20% of this would be 420 calories which would be about 105g protein. This is insufficient.

However when bulking, I consume ~3200 or so. 20% is 640 calories or 160g protein. This is much closer to being a reasonable intake.

This is an example of how protein values change as calories change when you recommend a percentage instead of a target in grams per lb.

I believe this was Sara's point and she is correct to raise the question, IMO.

Yep

Sarauk2sf

nvmd - head/wall

jayche

nvmd - head/wall

Comments such as these don't contribute to the OP's question at all, don't see the reasoning behind posting this.

Example: when I near the end of my cut, I'm at 2100 calories. 20% of this would be 420 calories which would be about 105g protein. This is insufficient.

The OP is seeking to maintain her weight, not enter a cutting phase/lose weight, there is no need for her to be in a deficit. I would argue that 105g of protein would be enough but again do what works for you, I'm simply working off of my own experiences and research.

Quote from the original post:

...I'm keen to maintain and possibly slightly build muscle and just lose fat/get leaner

SideSteel

nvmd - head/wall

Comments such as these don't contribute to the OP's question at all, don't see the reasoning behind posting this.

Example: when I near the end of my cut, I'm at 2100 calories. 20% of this would be 420 calories which would be about 105g protein. This is insufficient.

The OP is seeking to maintain her weight, not enter a cutting phase/lose weight, there is no need for her to be in a deficit. I would argue that 105g of protein would be enough but again do what works for you, I'm working off of my own experiences and research.

...I'm keen to maintain and possibly slightly build muscle and just lose fat/get leaner

The point of my post was strictly to explain how protein values change as calories change, when using a percentage recommendation. This is why recommending a percentage may be inaccurate, unless you know the persons bodyweight, goals, and caloric intake.

jayche

The point of my post was strictly to explain how protein values change as calories change, when using a percentage recommendation. This is why recommending a percentage may be inaccurate, unless you know the persons bodyweight, goals, and caloric intake.

And I whole-heartedly agree with you...

I'm simply giving my OP an opinion based on the information given... is it liable to change in light of new information? Absolutely.

Sarauk2sf

*

jayche

Did I quote you? No!

Was this then targeted at the OP or anyone else in the thread?

SideSteel

You are still not seeming to get my point. My comment was..how can you say that 20% is OK without knowing her calories or weight....simple as that.

How can you say otherwise without knowing her calories or weight?

You did not ask so you cannot know. That is all I was saying. There are a myriad of possibilities where 20% is not optimal. Where did I say it was not?

This ^

Example: when I near the end of my cut, I'm at 2100 calories. 20% of this would be 420 calories which would be about 105g protein. This is insufficient.

However when bulking, I consume ~3200 or so. 20% is 640 calories or 160g protein. This is much closer to being a reasonable intake.

This is an example of how protein values change as calories change when you recommend a percentage instead of a target in grams per lb.

I believe this was Sara's point and she is correct to raise the question, IMO.

How do you know it's insufficient, have you tried it?

I trust the multiple studies showing lbm losses in a caloric deficit at lower protein intakes. Protein Roundtable cover this thoroughly.

XXXMinnieXXX

35% protein
35% carbs
30% fat

That's working well for me. Gets me losing weight, feeling full and I think it will be good ratios for strength training.

Zara x

nexangelus

I am maintaining on 35/35/30. I play around with the percentages until what I eat feels right and fits with my training programme, right now these percentages are pretty good...you need to experiment yourself and see what works.