Weights vs. Cardio for fat loss...

hmadrone

But should I start weights in the beginning to gain muscle when I still need to lose the fat? I feel like I should start to lose first then add in weights. Idk though, I am kind of new to this and just wondering.

if you are eating in a deficit you are not going to gain muscle weight lifting -- you will build strength and burn body fat

If you eat enough protein and lift heavy, you can gain muscle even with a calorie deficit. My bicep measurement sometimes goes up when the rest of my measurements are going down and the weight is coming off.

Sarauk2sf

But should I start weights in the beginning to gain muscle when I still need to lose the fat? I feel like I should start to lose first then add in weights. Idk though, I am kind of new to this and just wondering.

if you are eating in a deficit you are not going to gain muscle weight lifting -- you will build strength and burn body fat

If you eat enough protein and lift heavy, you can gain muscle even with a calorie deficit. My bicep measurement sometimes goes up when the rest of my measurements are going down and the weight is coming off.

Generally that is due to glycogen/water retention. There are only a few situations when you can gain muscle on a deficit - 'newbie' gains which are only 1 - 2lb. When you add the fact that someone is significantly overweight to this - the amount can increase- the amount by which depends on age, sex, training intensity, size of the deficit etc

scottb81

Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.

Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.

Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.

http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full

"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time."

So if you eat less than 800 cal a day you will lose LBM without resistance training. That is not the same as what was being said earlier in this thread, that fat loss will always be accompanied by muscle loss. Personally, no matter what the study says I have a hard time believing anyone is going to add lean body mass on 800 cal a day which is what would be required to maintain RMR while losing fat.

For example a person might lose 100 lbs of fat on a 800 cal a day diet.  In order to maintain RMR that person would at the same time have to gain 40 lbs of muscle.  Is that possible on a 800 cal a day diet?  No.

I was posting it as an example - please see my comment explaining it - the fact that they are obese also is a factor that would lead to less loss of LBM. Also, where exactly did I say or insinuate that they gained LBM? The resistance trained folks maintained - the cardio group lost - that is the point

The study said they maintained resting metabolic rate (RMR). In the presence of fat loss they would have had to gain LBM to maintain RMR. Note that they were not doing any heavy lifting either. They were doing light weights, high volume. The exact opposite of what is normally recommended on this forum.

Sarauk2sf

Why does everyone seem to think cardio is not also muscle building? My legs are solid muscle from running, any weight bearing excercise is also building your muscles, strengthening your bones, AND improving your heart. Yes, you need to do something for the top half also, but just wanted to state cardio and muscle building are not necessarily 2 different things.

Mostly because of the studies that show a loss of lean body mass with a caloric deficit and cardio only. If you are not in a calorie deficit, running or other forms of cardio may add some muscle. The initial growth will probably slow way down after a very short time.

Here is one of the many studies. The subjects were on a VLCD which is not ideal for FFM preservation but were obese, which makes FFM preservation at a VLCD less problematic. They were untrained individuals and so would have got some 'newbie gains' as well.

http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.full

"In summary, the addition of high volume aggressive resistance training to a VLCD was associated with a significant weight loss while preserving LBW and RMR. The preservation of LBW and RMR during the consumption of a VLCD did not occur with a standard treatment control aerobic training program. These results indicate that high volume resistance training may be beneficial for patients who use a VLCD to lose large amounts of weight at least for periods up to 12 weeks. Future clinical studies need to determine its efficacy in long term weight loss programs and the maintenance of this weight loss for extended periods of time."

So if you eat less than 800 cal a day you will lose LBM without resistance training. That is not the same as what was being said earlier in this thread, that fat loss will always be accompanied by muscle loss. Personally, no matter what the study says I have a hard time believing anyone is going to add lean body mass on 800 cal a day which is what would be required to maintain RMR while losing fat.

For example a person might lose 100 lbs of fat on a 800 cal a day diet.  In order to maintain RMR that person would at the same time have to gain 40 lbs of muscle.  Is that possible on a 800 cal a day diet?  No.

I was posting it as an example - please see my comment explaining it - the fact that they are obese also is a factor that would lead to less loss of LBM. Also, where exactly did I say or insinuate that they gained LBM? The resistance trained folks maintained - the cardio group lost - that is the point

The study said they maintained resting metabolic rate (RMR). In the presence of fat loss they would have had to gain LBM to maintain RMR. Note that they were not doing any heavy lifting either. They were doing light weights, high volume. The exact opposite of what is normally recommended on this forum.

Check the study itself as well as the extract of the conclusion I posted - they maintained (actually a slight loss but within a reasonable error rate of saying they maintained) FFM. They were untrained - any lifting will be beneficial for LBM gains/maintenance. It has limitations which is why in general, heavy lifting is recommended. Also, remember 'heavy' lifting is generally more in the strength range as opposed to the hypertrophy range which is more mass focused.

berlys

I'm a big fan of weight training. But, both is the key...along with eating right. I have had an issue with my stomach...always... I find that my stomach is going away alot faster now that I've added weights to my program and eating healthier. Was just doing Insanity for awhile, but need to get in better shape by May.

groversa

The bottom line is that cardio people are going to recommend cardio, and the lifters are going to recommend strength training. Ultimately it's up to you who to believe (pssst, only 1 of them is right), but I'd go with the people who support their arguments the best. Especially if they include references.

Lol, I can guess which one by your profile picture. Thanks though, I think I'm going to do more strength training that I have been, I'll still do some cardio for my health, but won't let it take up most of my time.

Warchortle

I guess there are some people who don't know that your lean body mass doesn't stay the same at different weights. The LBM you have at 145 is not the same if you were at 200. I don't think people realize LBM includes everything in the body that isn't fat. It's not the same thing as muscle retention or strength retention.

FullOfWin

Good to see that I can look at this forum some random time for the first time in a couple weeks and still see one of these threads on page one

pkdarlin

Bump

Babeskeez

I have always been told that you should be doing both. I do weight lifting first then cardio.

My parents are personal trainers and former bodybuilders so my thinking is a little like theirs.

jmariscal3

Not sure if anyone has already said this or not but I just started a new weight training program called LiveFit with Jamie Eason. It is on Bodybuilding.com and it is a 12 week program. I was not into weight-lifting, did all cardio, and found that I wanted more. This program is three phases, in the first phase it is no cardio, just weights. It gives rest days and shows you each workout in videos. I am in week two now and LOVING it! Go to it, look at the phases she lays out, check out her recommended diet and supplements, and watch some of the first example vids. Even if you do not do the program you can try some new weight workouts from it to help you along. I am feeling great just after the first week in phase one. Phases two and three adds in cardio, too.

Confuzzled4ever

A combo of cardio, lifting and calisthenics works best for me!
Mix up the cardio to keep it fun
I'll take random classes at the gym, go on different machines there, roller skate use the wii fit go hiking, pull out my sons bicycle.
that's the best advice I've got for ya on that.
Always include weights though. Without weights you don't burn fat. :~)

Andrew_peter

30-45 min cardio - Monday, Wednesday, Fri
Weight training with 5 to 10 min cardio to warm up first - Tues, Thurs, Sat
Day Off - Sunday

Working for me and feeling like am million bucks too

Nataliaho

Calorie deficit for fat loss.

Weights for muscle retention. (We lose muscle when when diet. This is sad.)

Cardio for cardio fitness, and to help maintain calorie deficit while eating more.

This is the best answer here

One extra thing that I think is worth stressing, particularly to a newbie female. Weights will make you stronger, even at a deficit, even though you aren't building muscle. I think its really empowering for a young woman to feel strong, to simply be able to pick up and carry around heavy stuff...

fmouco

bump

Kissah

I still wonder about cardio/weights. I do both because i feel as I am loosing weight I need to tone my skin and muscles and I have noticed the muscle gain on my legs and butt. I feel stronger and more tone.. I am far from where I want to be but even my husband told me just last night my body felt tighter. That is a great motivator... I like doing both on my routine... good luck..

Kissah

Agree!!!!

lamby284

At my heighest weight when I first started exercising, I was only doing strength and resistance training. That didnt work well on its own (perhaps at the fault of my poor eating habits at the time too) I don't do much cardio with my asthma, but a little goes a long way. Anything that has you breathing hard...as in you are unable to say a sentence without pausing a few times is enough. I'd say now I do about 85% strength and 15% cardio. Thats just a guesstimate.

Sarauk2sf

Calorie deficit for fat loss.

Weights for muscle retention. (We lose muscle when when diet. This is sad.)

Cardio for cardio fitness, and to help maintain calorie deficit while eating more.

This is the best answer here

One extra thing that I think is worth stressing, particularly to a newbie female. Weights will make you stronger, even at a deficit, even though you aren't building muscle. I think its really empowering for a young woman to feel strong, to simply be able to pick up and carry around heavy stuff...

Quoting to re-stress the benefits outside muscle gain.