I'm starting a tea fast soon, anyone want to join me?

nguk123

While im totally not in for this fast (im not even going to pretend that i could do it), it isn't unsafe. Too many people think that if they dare to eat under 1500 calories a day, "starvation mode" (which eating disorders completely disbunk btw) will set in. Do some research beyond nutrition books.
I've done fasting, and once i was over the hump, it felt great. I just cant do it now because I'm on my feet a lot, and i like food too much.

I wonder what you think "starvation mode" refers to? and how you think eating disorders 'debunk' it ?

Dave198lbs

question...can i add milk to my tea.... n sugar?

if serious, answer is no

a true fast is zero calories to give the body a total break from digestion

24 hours is plenty

srp2011

Current scientific literature seems to support short term fasting. All studies either point to fasting being beneficial, or to having no effect whatsoever.

The oh-my-gawd-starvation-mode-you're-gonna-die bullsh*t is complete bro-science and wives tales.

Correct! Fasting is now scientifically proven to heal the body & extend life! Unless you are underweight , near goal weight or have a medical condition such as diabetes or heart failure a 3 day fast will do more good than harm. Modern culture and big bucks in the food industry would have us believe we need 3 square meals a day every day to thrive. We don't, we all, me included eat far far too much!
I would join you myself but I already have a 5:3 ratio restricted calorie (0-500max) day lifestyle..which my GP approves off and am happily losing weight on...and with improving health!!!

How about producing the references for your scientific studies proving an overall survival benefit for fasting - I for one would really like to evaluate the study design and results of these trials, as well as the publication source. I'm sure others would like to have this information also.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110403090259.htm

http://www.healthpromoting.com/water-fasting/fasting-research

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fasting-might-boost-chemo

http://europepmc.org/search/?page=1&query=KW:"Fasting"

http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/18/fasting-protect-brain-diseases-scientists

....
.
I'd find more but

i got bored.

Thanks, some of the articles do actually refer to legitimate peer reviewed articles in humans and may be interesting for further reading, but I don't consider someone's unreferenced blog (link 3) to be a legit source of scientific information, nor do I consider a random list of PubMed articles including the word fasting to be supportive (all that shows is that research is being done, it doesn't support or disprove any given point, the articles are probably going to be a mixed bag of positive and negative studies). And the scientific american link refers to an article about a mouse study and chemotherapy - we have been curing mice of cancer for decades, and we have not been able to translate that level of success to humans yet, suggesting they are in fact different beasts - the mouse study is hypothesis-generating only, it does not prove anything for a human population, just suggests an avenue for further research - many, many results in mice do not pan out when tested in humans. Thank you for demonstrating that you know how to use Google, but I have yet to see anything yet that substantiates the poster's claim that fasting increases overall survival in humans, which was my original question.

red_road

@Phaendra2013 I do this because I love fasting, and it is a great thing for your body, as long as you don't do it for long periods of time. It is a great cleanse for your body as the green tea contains many antioxidants, and it helps boost your metabolism

There is zero scientific evidence to support your claims. Actually not eating slows the digestive system to a crawl, which actually PREVENTS your body eliminating waste! And if you don't eat your metabolism drops, the body cannot tell the difference between a famine and a fast or highly restrictive diet. Even standardised green tea extract (massively richer in polyphenols than homemade tea) is only associated with an ~80 calorie a day metabolism boost in the literature. Fasting can be dangerous by triggering electrolyte imbalances and dehydration, it's not really something you should be encouraging others to do when you know absolutely nothing about their health status.

4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".


Truth

Efficient adaptation to famine was important for survival during rough times in our evolution. Lowering metabolic rate during starvation allowed us to live longer, increasing the possibility that we might come across something to eat. Starvation literally means starvation. It doesn't mean skipping a meal not eating for 24 hours. Or not eating for three days even. The belief that meal skipping or short-term fasting causes "starvation mode" is so completely ridiculous and absurd that it makes me want to jump out the window.

the earliest evidence for lowered metabolic rate in response to fasting occurred after 60 hours (-8% in resting metabolic rate). Other studies show metabolic rate is not impacted until 72-96 hours have passed (George Cahill has contributed a lot on this topic).

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

red_road

It is funny how people chime in with the starvation mode concern and the unhealthiness of fasting. I think being obese or overweight on a daily basis exceeds the risk of periodic daily fasting. In addition, I can imagine a lot of people are against this periodic fasting due to the actual inability and lack of self control to do a challenge like this. In addition, I am not a doctor but I don't think 96 hours of fasting is going to be tragic to ones metabolism or their long term health. At least they are staying hydrated.

THANK YOU! So many ignorant people on here. But then it is a public forum. I think you would have better luck joining a group on here that supports occasional fasting rather than posting it as a topic. I just would love to see the food diary's of the people on here blindly bashing fasting. But on here people are more supportive of someone eating 3000 calories a day of take out then 1100 of healthy food. Either way i think this is the last time im going to feed the trolls.

but but but

if we don't feed them

how will we keep them fat?!

they'll go into starvation mode!!!!! and die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flowerforyou: :laugh:

Firefox7275

4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".


Truth

Efficient adaptation to famine was important for survival during rough times in our evolution. Lowering metabolic rate during starvation allowed us to live longer, increasing the possibility that we might come across something to eat. Starvation literally means starvation. It doesn't mean skipping a meal not eating for 24 hours. Or not eating for three days even. The belief that meal skipping or short-term fasting causes "starvation mode" is so completely ridiculous and absurd that it makes me want to jump out the window.

the earliest evidence for lowered metabolic rate in response to fasting occurred after 60 hours (-8% in resting metabolic rate). Other studies show metabolic rate is not impacted until 72-96 hours have passed (George Cahill has contributed a lot on this topic).

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

If you do not reference your sources it is plagiarism, an automatic fail at degree level. Can't assess the quality of your research if you copy and paste without a reference. Please don't quote me again if you are going to post nonsense, I did not use the phrase starvation mode.

My understanding of the situation comes from having studied nutrition as part of my last degree, including reading too many textbooks and papers published in respected peer reviewed journals. However I can always do with updating so if you have any references to quality published meta analyses or longitudinal population please post them. That article is not properly referenced, first author alone is meaningless.

bionicrooster

If our bodies went into "starvation mode" after 3 or 4 days, our species would have been extinct a long time ago.

Dave198lbs

If our bodies went into "starvation mode" after 3 or 4 days, our species would have been extinct a long time ago.

not really...you can go into starvation "mode" and not die...you just screw your body up

julimonster

I'm in. As long as "tea fast" means - drinking a tea fast before I eat all my meals. That's it, right?

Lol, that ^^!!!

nguk123

If our bodies went into "starvation mode" after 3 or 4 days, our species would have been extinct a long time ago.

100% wrong.

If our bodies didn't have a conserving approach to extended periods of extreme caloric defecit, (i.e. a 'starvation mode') we would exhaust our existing fat stores (our energy reserves), and die off in the lean times.

stephross88

This^^

chervil6

do u just drink tea ?

juicy_cat

I'll have mine with two sugars, milk and a packet of nice biscuits...thanks

Troll

No.

Firefox7275

4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".

<snip>

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

OK found the two studies referenced, one from 13 years ago one from 23 years ago

"Enhanced thermogenic response to epinephrine after 48-h starvation in humans.
Mansell PI, Fellows IW, Macdonald IA. (1990)

The effects of 48-h starvation on the physiological responses to a 30-min infusion of epinephrine at 25 ng.min-1.kg body wt-1 were studied in 11 normal-weight healthy young subjects. Starvation led to considerable alterations in basal metabolism including a significant (mean 3.6%) increase in resting metabolic rate. During the infusions, plasma epinephrine concentration rose less in the starved state (+1.47 nmol/l) than in the normally fed state (+1.73 nmol/l) (SE 0.06 nmol/l; P less than 0.05). The maximum increments (mean +/- SE) in heart rate induced by epinephrine were 11.9 +/- 1.3 beats/min in the normally fed state and 20.1 +/- 2.0 beats/min in the starved state (P less than 0.001); the corresponding mean increments in blood glycerol concentration were 0.07 and 0.14 mmol/l (SE 0.01 mmol/l; P less than 0.01). The increase in the metabolic rate above base line during the final 10 min of the epinephrine infusion was 0.58 +/- 0.18 kJ/min in the normally fed state and 0.78 +/- 0.14 kJ/min in the starved state (P less than 0.01). The chronotropic, lipolytic, and thermogenic effects of infused epinephrine were therefore enhanced by prior starvation, despite the lower plasma epinephrine levels."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717


"Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine.
Zauner C, Schneeweiss B, Kranz A, Madl C, Ratheiser K, Kramer L, Roth E, Schneider B, Lenz K. (2000)

The effects of food restriction on energy metabolism have been under investigation for more than a century. Data obtained are conflicting and research has failed to provide conclusive results.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this study was to test the hypothesis that in lean subjects under normal living conditions, short-term starvation leads to an increase in serum concentrations of catecholamines and thus to an increase in resting energy expenditure.
DESIGN:
Resting energy expenditure, measured by indirect calorimetry, and hormone and substrate concentrations were measured in 11 healthy, lean subjects on days 1, 2, 3, and 4 of an 84-h starvation period.
RESULTS:
Resting energy expenditure increased significantly from 3.97 +/- 0.9 kJ/min on day 1 to 4.53 +/- 0.9 kJ/min on day 3 (P < 0.05). The increase in resting energy expenditure was associated with an increase in the norepinephrine concentration from 1716. +/- 574 pmol/L on day 1 to 3728 +/- 1636 pmol/L on day 4 (P < 0.05). Serum glucose decreased from 4.9 +/- 0.5 to 3.5 +/- 0.5 mmol/L (P < 0.05), whereas insulin did not change significantly.
CONCLUSIONS:
Resting energy expenditure increases in early starvation, accompanied by an increase in plasma norepinephrine. This increase in norepinephrine seems to be due to a decline in serum glucose and may be the initial signal for metabolic changes in early starvation."
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1511.long


Note the tiny number of participants, the description of the same (lean, healthy, young etc), and the references to stress hormones. Haven't stated it explicitly on this thread but have in many others on fasting/ famines/ very low calorie diets/ detoxes - these put the body into a state of stress which few would claim is healthier than the body not being in a state of stress. I could spend more time being sarky about drawing firm conclusions from such limited research but I don't actually think that is necessary.

Sarauk2sf

Putting the fasting argument aside, it seems like it would dehydrate you. Tea can have a lot of caffeine in it.

This is also true. Another reason why if i were to fast, it wouldnt be a caffeine-based one...that's really the only true unhealthy aspect to it.

The dehydrating effects of caffeine is negligible.

Sarauk2sf

@Phaendra2013 I do this because I love fasting, and it is a great thing for your body, as long as you don't do it for long periods of time. It is a great cleanse for your body as the green tea contains many antioxidants, and it helps boost your metabolism

It does not cleanse anything - there is nothing to cleanse

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/821828-detoxes-and-cleanses

azalea617

Here's my say: http://www.radicalrawlife.com/Fasting/Fasting Main Page.html

Yeah, a lot of people disagree. And I don't know that I will ever fast (my SIL made that site). But it does work for a lot of people, for what reasons they have. What I didn't really see people saying on this post was that after your fast, you ease back into eating, you don't just have a huge meal right away. That is how it doesn't mess up your metabolism. You eat very little or nothing (aside from water) for a few days, then you slowly add foods back into your diet.

This is also often how people are tested for allergies and intolerances to certain foods. It's not uncommon, but it's not for everyone. So, just because you think you'd never do it or think it's a terrible idea because you know nothing about it, trust that the many, many people who choose to do it are aware of how to execute it properly (hopefully).

Contrarian

Fasting gives people bad breath.

Dave198lbs

Fasting gives people bad breath.

obviously that is all the toxins leaving the body through the mouth

duh

Lodipatsy

I am willing to try have never done one before we will see if I can stick too it

Dave198lbs

I am willing to try have never done one before we will see if I can stick too it

just amazing

My0WNinspiration

:yawn:

Contrarian

Fasting gives people bad breath.

obviously that is all the toxins leaving the body through the mouth

duh

Now that you have pointed it out, it IS obvious.

foleyshirley

It is funny how people chime in with the starvation mode concern and the unhealthyness of fasting. I think being obese or overweight on a daily basis exceeds the risk of periodic daily fasting. In addition, I can imagine a lot of people are against this periodic fasting due to the actual inability and lack of self control to do a challenge like this. In addition, I am not a doctor but I don't think 96 hours of fasting is going to be tradgic to ones metabolism or their long term health. At least they are staying hydrated.

Current scientific literature seems to support short term fasting. All studies either point to fasting being beneficial, or to having no effect whatsoever.

The oh-my-gawd-starvation-mode-you're-gonna-die bullsh*t is complete bro-science and wives tales.

Correct! Fasting is now scientifically proven to heal the body & extend life! Unless you are underweight , near goal weight or have a medical condition such as diabetes or heart failure a 3 day fast will do more good than harm. Modern culture and big bucks in the food industry would have us believe we need 3 square meals a day every day to thrive. We don't, we all, me included eat far far too much!
I would join you myself but I already have a 5:3 ratio restricted calorie (0-500max) day lifestyle..which my GP approves off and am happily losing weight on...and with improving health!!!

Fasting has not been scientifically proven to extend life in humans. It is being studied, but there is no definitive proof it works in humans. Unless you have a journal article from a reputable source.

Doodlewhopper

Fasting is controversial and several here are totally delusional and looking for the "pie in the sky", their arguments are rhetorical based with little or no real facts.

The below quotes are from the Mayo Clinic.

<<<Skipping meals or fasting is safe on occasion, but it could undermine weight-management efforts.>>> --http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fasting-and-food/MY02157

<<<there's little evidence that detox diets actually remove toxins from the body. Indeed, the kidneys and liver effectively filter and eliminate most ingested toxins. The benefits from a detox diet may actually come from avoiding highly processed foods that have solid fats and added sugar.>>> --http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/detox-diets/AN01334

<<<Also for dieters, "the news is not as good as you might think" on fasting, said Dr. Raymond Gibbons of the Mayo Clinic, a former heart association president.
"Fasting resets the metabolic rate," slowing it down to adjust to less food and forcing the body to store calories as soon as people resume eating, Gibbons said. That is true for total fasting, but fasts of one two two days can increase metabolism and general health as well as long as enough calories are consumed during the period.>>>
--http://healthtopical.com/general-discussion-3/general-3-1864.html

runningwild00

Is it safe to fast for 4 days? That seems like a long time!!

denisefortner

How does it work? I am definately in!

Veganniee

If I could be the kind of person that could fast for 3-4 days, I wouldn't have got to the point where I need to diet at all. I just wonder why people want to do it. If you have that amount of willpower then just stick to a certain amount of calories each day and you'll lose weight.

juicy_cat

Fasting gives people bad breath.

obviously that is all the toxins leaving the body through the mouth

duh

think you just made that up Dave...