A Sad Realization.
Replies
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Thanks for posting. I started MFP in August, lost well for three or four months but then plateau'd. Also returned to strength training in November (mostly pecs, lats and delts). Maybe I shouldn't be so concerned that the scale hasn't moved much lately.0
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This means that, by being a f*cking moron, I went from having 117lbs of lean mass to having just 90. I lost 27 pounds of muscle being an idiot.
Well, that sucks...
Having said, you don't really know how much muscle you have actually lost. You've lost 27 lbs of lean body mass of course but that includes a lot of things including water, glycogen, bone, tissue etc.
Hopefully once you have a decent routine in place the improvement in the way you look may be prove to be quicker than you imagine. Having said that you are bound to put on a bit of fat meaning you will have to diet back down again (sensibly this time
You would have reached your goals a lot sooner if you had dieted down slowly in the first place (ironic I know) but your previous dieting history doesn't stop you from reaching them in the future.0 -
oh and 23% body fat is fine for a woman.
But losing 27 pounds of lean mass is not. That's why an athlete and a model can have the same bf%, but look very different. I look frail and sickly, not strong, and that's what I'm upset about.
percentage wise, your are in better shape now than you were at 180 pounds. this logic doesn't make any sense. your body fat percentage went down. it didn't stay the same or go up. it went down. i'm assuming when you gained weight, you gained some lean mass as well as fat, just like when you lose weight, you lose lean mass as well as fat. if you kept all the lean mass and was still 117 pounds, you would be 0% body fat. that is impossible.
when you were 180 pounds, you were not an athelete or model. if you were, you would not have been 35% body fat.
I am with you on this one. As a long time body builder, I will always tell women to lift weight for all kinds of reasons BUT you haven't done yourself any lasting damage, you've lost more fat than muscle (which you will have lost anyway because of how the body creates fuel during cardio) and you will find training easier now because you weigh less.
Stop beating yourself up and get the kettlbells out!0 -
Now you get to have newbie progress again
:drinker:
I like the way you think.0 -
Lmao at previous post
Sorry... its just... there's so many words and no conclusion
Maybe he is not finished...many more questions to ask? :huh:
I think you can answer the questions for yourself. Don't you think so?
Conclusions are for the weak-minded that can't think for themselves.0 -
It is definitely tough to gain back, but personally.. I think if you had enough determination and grit to go from 180lbs all the way to 117lbs the cardio/light eating way, you most certainly can get some muscle put back on!
I agree.0 -
fine, then work out and build muscle now.
You may be missing a major point here - do you realized how long it will take to rebuild the lost muscle?
I don't really believe that it would have been easier to keep it than it would be to rebuild it since she wasn't particularly muscular to begin with. she's also not exactly underweight now.0 -
As said before, what's past is past, but definitely thank you for sharing to try and inform others. I'm just beginning my weightloss journey, and thanks to threads like these, I've started up strength training (started StrongLifts yesterday).
On the positive side. Look at how much you get to eat now when trying to bulk!!!0 -
fine, then work out and build muscle now.
You may be missing a major point here - do you realized how long it will take to rebuild the lost muscle?
I don't really believe that it would have been easier to keep it than it would be to rebuild it since she wasn't particularly muscular to begin with. she's also not exactly underweight now.
There was a previous post that explained this. Losing the weight and muscle will make this about a 5 year journey for her whereas if she had preserved as much muscle as possible it may have only been about a 2 year journey.
It isn't all about the scales. Many women have posted before and after pictures and stories where they have gained weight but are a smaller size because they gained muscle. Not everyone wants to be muscular, but I assume a lot of women are not a fan of pudge. You can be 110 lbs and still look pudgy due to your bf%. Preserving muscle mass leads to less pudge even at higher weights.
Some women want to be rail thin with knobby knees. I would think most don't.0 -
Good thread, and those of us who understand the concept of preserving lean body mass while losing fat (and how much more difficult it is to put it back on once you've lost it!) get where you're coming from. Ignore the ones who don't - maybe they'll figure it out eventually...or not. It's a shame that you had to learn the hard way, but the point is that you learned and now you know what to do about it to reach your goal. It's good that you put the information out there for others to see - some will understand and learn from it.
Taking this advice here. I'm not obligated to explain myself any further to those who just want to argue for the hell of it.0 -
Lmao at previous post
Sorry... its just... there's so many words and no conclusion
Maybe he is not finished...many more questions to ask? :huh:
I think you can answer the questions for yourself. Don't you think so?
Conclusions are for the weak-minded that can't think for themselves.
youre a fortune cookie0 -
I really feel for you here, the same thing has happened to me. Due to a change in circumstances I'm no longer able to get to the gym (kiddies to look after now) and my weight training has become non-existent. On the scales I've lost weight, but I've lost muscle mass and gained fat, therefore look worse than I did when I was heavier - its insane the amount of muscle wastage I've had in a matter of 2 months! Free weights at home are my goal for this year to regain the muscle that I've lost.0
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fine, then work out and build muscle now.
You may be missing a major point here - do you realized how long it will take to rebuild the lost muscle?
I don't really believe that it would have been easier to keep it than it would be to rebuild it since she wasn't particularly muscular to begin with. she's also not exactly underweight now.
There was a previous post that explained this. Losing the weight and muscle will make this about a 5 year journey for her whereas if she had preserved as much muscle as possible it may have only been about a 2 year journey.
It isn't all about the scales. Many women have posted before and after pictures and stories where they have gained weight but are a smaller size because they gained muscle. Not everyone wants to be muscular, but I assume a lot of women are not a fan of pudge. You can be 110 lbs and still look pudgy due to your bf%. Preserving muscle mass leads to less pudge even at higher weights.
Some women want to be rail thin with knobby knees. I would think most don't.
so you're saying that when she was obese at 180 pounds with an obese body fat percentage of 35%, she was at a better starting point than being a normal weight of 117 and normal body fat percentage of 23%?0 -
fine, then work out and build muscle now.
You may be missing a major point here - do you realized how long it will take to rebuild the lost muscle?
I don't really believe that it would have been easier to keep it than it would be to rebuild it since she wasn't particularly muscular to begin with. she's also not exactly underweight now.
Your logic escapes me. It is irrelevant whether she had a lot in the first place - she lost LBM. also, if your assumption is true and she wasn't very muscular in the first place then wouldn't it be even more important to keep what she had?0 -
fine, then work out and build muscle now.
You may be missing a major point here - do you realized how long it will take to rebuild the lost muscle?
I don't really believe that it would have been easier to keep it than it would be to rebuild it since she wasn't particularly muscular to begin with. she's also not exactly underweight now.
Your logic escapes me. It is irrelevant whether she had a lot in the first place - she lost LBM. also, if your assumption is true and she wasn't very muscular in the first place then wouldn't it be even more important to keep what she had?
I think the disconnect here is that the previous poster is thinking of bodyfat% alone as the important number here, and not the actual lean mass as separate consideration from bf%
Basically:
High bf%=bad
High lean mass=good
Low bf%=good
Low lean mass=bad.
Just as BMI alone is not an accurate measure of health or fitness, bf% alone is not an accurate measure of health or fitness. I know some women whose bf% is 15. They have a high lean mass and are very fit and healthy. Then there are the girls I know from ED inpatient whose bf% is 15, who have a low lean mass and are weak and ill. Guess which one I want to be?0 -
so you're saying that when she was obese at 180 pounds with an obese body fat percentage of 35%, she was at a better starting point than being a normal weight of 117 and normal body fat percentage of 23%?
I know this wasn't directed at me but to achieve her ultimate goals as she has stated them then yes, she was at a better starting position at 180lbs and 35% bf then she is now given her loss of LBM.
That's because it is much more difficult to trigger physical adaptations, particularly to build new muscle tissue, then it is to maintain pre existing ones. It requires more work to go through the supercompensation cycle multiple times then it is to keep them at a plateau.0 -
I really feel for you here, the same thing has happened to me. Due to a change in circumstances I'm no longer able to get to the gym (kiddies to look after now) and my weight training has become non-existent. On the scales I've lost weight, but I've lost muscle mass and gained fat, therefore look worse than I did when I was heavier - its insane the amount of muscle wastage I've had in a matter of 2 months! Free weights at home are my goal for this year to regain the muscle that I've lost.
The large amounts of estrogen that is put into the bloodstream during child-bearing and lactation is a muscle-killer as well (plus, prolactin--the lactating hormone put out by the pituitary, tends to reduce the burning of fat for energy). :frown: The consumption of sugar and simple carbs makes the problem worse because estrogen already increases blood sugar levels anyway. Gestational diabetes is very common these days because of our lack of exercise---which tends to lower blood sugar--and our poor diet that is sugar and carb heavy. Our ancestors ate little if any sugar and did a lot of manual labor. They ate a lot of vegetables because they were cheap and easily available.0 -
If you tell me how you got compulsive on the cardio maybe it will help us both.
I got compulsive on the cardio by swimming, I love it.0 -
I have to friends who are doing 500 cal a day for 21 days then off for 21 days..I kept telling them that it was not a healthy way to loose. Sure, one lost 17lbs and another lost 12lb and let me tell you they were the most miserable people to talk with and deal with during those days..So on their off time was Christmas, and guess what the 1st one gained back 6 of the lbs and the other says 4 but I think it is more like 10 lol...
You made a serious milestone by relizing that you are better off taking it slow, cutting all junk and weights and cardio not just cardio...KUDDOS to you!!!! You can do it!!!!!0 -
Thanks for putting this out there for those that are asking what the big deal is. I'm in recovery from an eating disorder, and telling me there's nothing wrong with how I did things is very triggering. It's a huge help to have affirmation that I did, in fact, screw up, and need to do this the right way now.
Thought so, and bravo at the turnaround...you will get there with this attitude, I know you will, best of luck and a great cautionary tale, pity a certain someone is not taking it on board ; )0 -
Thank you for posting about your journey, I have learned a lot from this thread.
I commend you for the self-discipline you clearly have to lose that amount of weight in the first place! This tells me that you can definitely get to where you want to be. Start with the lifting, and keep the long goal in mind: a long, healthy life. You can do it!0 -
I really feel for you here, the same thing has happened to me. Due to a change in circumstances I'm no longer able to get to the gym (kiddies to look after now) and my weight training has become non-existent. On the scales I've lost weight, but I've lost muscle mass and gained fat, therefore look worse than I did when I was heavier - its insane the amount of muscle wastage I've had in a matter of 2 months! Free weights at home are my goal for this year to regain the muscle that I've lost.
The large amounts of estrogen that is put into the bloodstream during child-bearing and lactation is a muscle-killer as well (plus, prolactin--the lactating hormone put out by the pituitary, tends to reduce the burning of fat for energy). :frown: The consumption of sugar and simple carbs makes the problem worse because estrogen already increases blood sugar levels anyway. Gestational diabetes is very common these days because of our lack of exercise---which tends to lower blood sugar--and our poor diet that is sugar and carb heavy. Our ancestors ate little if any sugar and did a lot of manual labor. They ate a lot of vegetables because they were cheap and easily available.
Oh no, I have absolutely no excuses there, I am merely a step-mum, never given birth so have no excuses when it comes to that.
Couldn't agree more about the sugar though - I am a firm believer that sugar is worse than fat when it comes to being healthy. I try my best to avoid it at all costs. 0 -
I have to friends who are doing 500 cal a day for 21 days then off for 21 days..I kept telling them that it was not a healthy way to loose. Sure, one lost 17lbs and another lost 12lb and let me tell you they were the most miserable people to talk with and deal with during those days..So on their off time was Christmas, and guess what the 1st one gained back 6 of the lbs and the other says 4 but I think it is more like 10 lol...
You made a serious milestone by relizing that you are better off taking it slow, cutting all junk and weights and cardio not just cardio...KUDDOS to you!!!! You can do it!!!!!
Yes---it's all about HEALTH. We should reject anything that takes us away from our goal of increasing our health during the slow process of taking off body fat! And eating 500 calories a day for 21 days is NOT healthy. In fact, docs have known for ages that getting a patient to put on fat was as easy as making them fast for a day and then plying them with high fat and sugar diets (think Christmas time goodies). People do the stupidest stuff with their health (and I was no exception) but you eventually PAY big time for every bit of abuse you heap on your body. (And I know this from sad experience---but I'm getting healthier now!)
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Thanks for putting this out there for those that are asking what the big deal is. I'm in recovery from an eating disorder, and telling me there's nothing wrong with how I did things is very triggering. It's a huge help to have affirmation that I did, in fact, screw up, and need to do this the right way now.
Thought so, and bravo at the turnaround...you will get there with this attitude, I know you will, best of luck and a great cautionary tale, pity a certain someone is not taking it on board ; )
save your pity. i'm doing just fine. thanks.0 -
Even if I'm not great at math, I see the problem here, and it's definitely convinced me that I've perhaps made the right choice upping my calories above my BMR (who knew MFP was so wrong), and to start doing more strength training.
Keeping in mind BF is pretty important. I'm pretty overweight now, but my Body Fat is in a normal range, though I'd like to bring it down, obviously. Which means not losing the muscle that I have.0 -
The first time I weighed myself at my heaviest, I was 180lbs, 35%bf.
I lost the weight, but I did it the stupid way - cardio, cardio, cardio, more cardio, and eating - total, not net - between 500 and 1500 calories per day, depending on how idiotic I was being at the time.
Current stats - 117 pounds, 23%bf.
This means I went from having 117lbs of lean mass to having just 90. I lost 27 pounds of muscle being an idiot.
Now I have the difficult task ahead of putting muscle back on, when it probably would have been 1000 times easier to preserve what I had and lose the fat more slowly and sensibly.
Take this as a cautionary tale. If you lose weight stupidly, it doesn't matter how much you lose, you won't look good naked, you won't be strong, and you'll have a hell of a lot more work ahead of you after reaching your goal weight once you realize that you are a pathetic pile of skinny-fat squish.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I am going to try and be as honest as I can with you. You have no clue what 27# of muscle can lift. You would have been squatting and dead lifting in the high 300's with that easy. You didn't lose that muscle because you never had it to start with. I also hate to tell you but lifting heavy wont make your lose skin go away (it will make it look better but it wont go away.) You can see my pic and I have at most 20# more muscle then the average guy my height. Learn to love your lose skin, get over yourself, and start lifting.
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The first time I weighed myself at my heaviest, I was 180lbs, 35%bf.
I lost the weight, but I did it the stupid way - cardio, cardio, cardio, more cardio, and eating - total, not net - between 500 and 1500 calories per day, depending on how idiotic I was being at the time.
Current stats - 117 pounds, 23%bf.
This means that, by being a f*cking moron, I went from having 117lbs of lean mass to having just 90. I lost 27 pounds of muscle being an idiot.
Now I have the difficult task ahead of putting muscle back on, when it probably would have been 1000 times easier to preserve what I had and lose the fat more slowly and sensibly.
Take this as a cautionary tale. If you lose weight stupidly, it doesn't matter how much you lose, you won't look good naked, you won't be strong, and you'll have a hell of a lot more work ahead of you after reaching your goal weight once you realize that you are a pathetic pile of skinny-fat squish.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I am going to try and be as honest as I can with you. You have no clue what 27# of muscle can lift. You would have been squatting and dead lifting in the high 300's with that easy. You didn't lose that muscle because you never had it to start with. I also hate to tell you but lifting heavy wont make your lose skin go away (it will make it look better but it wont go away.) You can see my pic and I have at most 20# more muscle then the average guy my height. Learn to love your lose skin, get over yourself, and start lifting.
Where did she say she had loose skin? How do you know she did not have muscle? And also, where are you getting that she would be lifting in the high 300s? That is just not correct even if she had that amount.0 -
I really feel for you here, the same thing has happened to me. Due to a change in circumstances I'm no longer able to get to the gym (kiddies to look after now) and my weight training has become non-existent. On the scales I've lost weight, but I've lost muscle mass and gained fat, therefore look worse than I did when I was heavier - its insane the amount of muscle wastage I've had in a matter of 2 months! Free weights at home are my goal for this year to regain the muscle that I've lost.
Look into exercise that uses you body weight for resistance, at least until you acquire free weights for use at home. My understanding is that it can be quite effective. I've added walking lunges to what I do at the gym, and I can see and feel my thighs getting firmer in the two weeks that I have been doing them (I'm talking about a small change, but a change none the less).0 -
I dont know maybe the part where she said you wont look good naked and would be a squishy lump.0
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That does not usually mean skin - that means a lack of LBM. If she meant skin she probably would have said it and not discussed LBM the whole time.I dont know maybe the part where she said you wont look good naked and would be a squishy lump.0
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