Experienced body builders. Need advice please

ChrisC_77

I am looking to gain about 10 or so lbs of muscle. I am 5'6" and 145 currently. My body fat is in the normal range. I have the most in the belly area. I have started using our fitness center at work. I am in the process of developing my routine. Here is the thing. I know your muscles need rest to grow and develop. How often should I lift. etc? I plan on doing cardio every other day. My current plan is to lift 3 days in a row. day off then 3 days on one off. I have been doing push ups everyday. I just started using the ab chair machine with 25 lbs today. Will it be effective to do this everyday or what is the ideal way to approach this? I know there are many different views and thoughts so I am welcome to all. Thanks!

mustgetmuscles1

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

ncahill77

Personally I start with circuit lifting to build a steady base before I start lifting heavy whrn I have taken significant time off. About a month of that 3 days a week then switch to a 4x10 or 5x5. I have always heard you can do abs every day.

ChrisC_77

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

I watched some youtube videos of the 5x5. It looks like total body insanity! Which is good! Like how the program is gradual. I will continue doing what I am doing for now, while I research. Starting Strength seemed a bit more convoluted. I think by using the 5x5, I would be shredded in no time. Do you do your cardio on off weight traning days or does it really matter? Going to download the 5x5 spreadsheet!

ChelseaM18

You need to follow a hypertrophy program to build muscle, this will be 1-6 sets of 8-12 repetitions between 60-80% of your one rep max. If you don't know your one rep max, just go by the weight where you feel fatigued at about the eighth to ninth rep. You can mix compound and isolation exercises, but base your workouts on the compound lifts such as bench, squat and deadlift etc then add in some isolation movements such as tricep extension or bicep curl.

You could follow a push/ pull program where you alternate days via pushing exercises and pulling exercises, however, given you have three days a rest day then three days, perhaps alternating upper body and lower body exrercises would be more convenient to you. The weight gain should be gradual, about a pound a month to be brutally honest, gaining anymore than that after the first couple months just means you eating too much of a surplus. 300-400 cals extra is my guesstimation for the average person

Ab exercises can be done everyday, but if you're looking for more prominent bodybuilder like abs that are thick, training them roughly twice a week intensely and for a longer period than would as you would if you trained them everyday i.e 20 minutes with little rest.

Good luck with the muscle building

dave4d

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

I watched some youtube videos of the 5x5. It looks like total body insanity! Which is good! Like how the program is gradual. I will continue doing what I am doing for now, while I research. Starting Strength seemed a bit more convoluted. I think by using the 5x5, I would be shredded in no time. Do you do your cardio on off weight traning days or does it really matter? Going to download the 5x5 spreadsheet!

It's my understanding that cardio should be avoided when trying to gain muscle. If you want to do it, anyway, make sure you are getting enough calories, still to put you in a caloric surplus. Muscle is gained while your body is resting. Don't overdo it.

dave4d

I'm planning on starting a bulk after I do my weigh out for work at the end of the month. I'm still debating doing starting strength, or this:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933

Starting strength sounds like it would be better for strength gains, but this sounds like it might work better for putting on muscle.

mustgetmuscles1

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

I watched some youtube videos of the 5x5. It looks like total body insanity! Which is good! Like how the program is gradual. I will continue doing what I am doing for now, while I research. Starting Strength seemed a bit more convoluted. I think by using the 5x5, I would be shredded in no time. Do you do your cardio on off weight traning days or does it really matter? Going to download the 5x5 spreadsheet!

I do about 10-15 minutes of intense cardio as a warm up before lifting and thats it. I do a lot of hiking and biking on weekends though. Cardio in the gym bores me and is optional.

Getting shredded would be more to do with eating in calorie deficit to lose body fat while do a strength program to maintain muscle.

If you want to add muscle you need to eat in a surplus. A beginner strength program (like starting strength or 5x5) with some hypertrophy accessories will add muscle for quite a while.

Trying to both at the same time is not very realistic.

whiteheaddg

I'm planning on starting a bulk after I do my weigh out for work at the end of the month. I'm still debating doing starting strength, or this:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933

Starting strength sounds like it would be better for strength gains, but this sounds like it might work better for putting on muscle.

Dave - AllPro's Simple Beginner's Routine is what I've been using since this past August and I'm a big fan. I'm mid-way through cycle 4 and starting to bog down on some of the exercises, but from Cycle 1 until now I saw steady gains in strength. I've also been eating a lot during this period (with a focus on protein and fat intake) to encourage the muscle growth. I'm not sure if I would have seen the gains if I wasn't in a "bulk."

I'll probably switch to a calorie deficit sometime next month so I can shed some of the added fat that goes along with a bulk. I'll stick with the AllPro routine during this time, but won't expect many advances in weight/reps until I turn on the calories again.

In my mind I had figured that I would be about 20lbs heavier now with most of that being muscle. In reality, I've gained about ten and will be happy if I gained at a 50/50 rate.

Good luck! --- Dave W

dave4d

I'm planning on starting a bulk after I do my weigh out for work at the end of the month. I'm still debating doing starting strength, or this:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933

Starting strength sounds like it would be better for strength gains, but this sounds like it might work better for putting on muscle.

Dave - AllPro's Simple Beginner's Routine is what I've been using since this past August and I'm a big fan. I'm mid-way through cycle 4 and starting to bog down on some of the exercises, but from Cycle 1 until now I saw steady gains in strength. I've also been eating a lot during this period (with a focus on protein and fat intake) to encourage the muscle growth. I'm not sure if I would have seen the gains if I wasn't in a "bulk."

I'll probably switch to a calorie deficit sometime next month so I can shed some of the added fat that goes along with a bulk. I'll stick with the AllPro routine during this time, but won't expect many advances in weight/reps until I turn on the calories again.

In my mind I had figured that I would be about 20lbs heavier now with most of that being muscle. In reality, I've gained about ten and will be happy if I gained at a 50/50 rate.

Good luck! --- Dave W

Thanks for the info. That's why I'm waiting for February to make that change. I have started reading Starting Strength. It has some pretty good information for improving my form, but I think I want a good Hypertrophy program to pack on size. I figure I will give myself about 15 or 20 lbs to gain before I cut, again.

FullOfWin

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/686963-large-collection-of-info-for-beginners

username_misso

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

I watched some youtube videos of the 5x5. It looks like total body insanity! Which is good! Like how the program is gradual. I will continue doing what I am doing for now, while I research. Starting Strength seemed a bit more convoluted. I think by using the 5x5, I would be shredded in no time. Do you do your cardio on off weight traning days or does it really matter? Going to download the 5x5 spreadsheet!

It's my understanding that cardio should be avoided when trying to gain muscle. If you want to do it, anyway, make sure you are getting enough calories, still to put you in a caloric surplus. Muscle is gained while your body is resting. Don't overdo it.

yeah youre not going to see much "cardio" factored into many programs.
short sprints or just plain old walking would be better than say running if youre desperate to do something.

jayche

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

FullOfWin

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

unless it is so intense that it hinders muscle recovery

DavPul

Pick one of the plans these guys suggested...as long as it doesn't have you lifting 3 days in a row. 2 days and rest day or every other day will let your body recuperate.

And i strongly recommend against doing any cardio at all if you're trying to gain muscle and your body fat is in a normal range. Cardio is going to work in opposition to your current goals.

And ditch any and all plans that involve that ab chair. Dead serious

DavPul

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

dave4d

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

10 minute Warmup?

Vonwarr

You can and probably will gain a fair bit of muscle as a beginner doing Starting Strength or Stronglifts. For the first while the adaptive stress is so high - especially as your CNS adapts more - that it generates muscle.

My current goal is to reach a solid base of strength first over the first 6 months and reach some strength standards (I've posted on my profile), and then worry about training direction after that.

There are 4 main directions you can take your training:
1. You can continue to train for pure strength
2. Power if you are athletic, interested in olympic lifting, or just want to add some burst
3. Hypertrophy for aesthetics/bodybuilding,
4. Conditioning for endurance sports or general badassery.

It's easiest to focus on one of those "paths" at a time. Explore several to reach a higher potential.

FullOfWin

I have run SS myself. I'm not sure I gained that much muscle on it, but strength went up by a good bit, and I already looked like I do in my ticker photo for what that is worth.

fitguy31

The first thing I recommend is establishing a short term goal. Once, that has been established you will gear your workout program around that goal. So you need to ask yourself what's more important losing belly fat or adding muscle? That 's not to say you can't do both at the same time however, focusing on both at the same time can hinder your results. At the end of the day in order to build muscle you should focus on muscle hypertrophy (8-12 reps) and create a meal plan that will allow your body to grow. If your not feeding your body, and it's not in the positive when it comes to your macro's (Carbs, fats and proteins) It will be extremely hard to add muscle. So to sum things up cardio burns calories, if your burning calories you must replace these calories to ensure a positive caloric intake. If you insist on doing cardio keep it light 20-30 mins of low intensity 2 days a week. This will allow you to burn fat without burning a ton of calories.

AntWrig

I recommend you do Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength and follow the program schedule they set up. They will work for a long time.

I watched some youtube videos of the 5x5. It looks like total body insanity! Which is good! Like how the program is gradual. I will continue doing what I am doing for now, while I research. Starting Strength seemed a bit more convoluted. I think by using the 5x5, I would be shredded in no time. Do you do your cardio on off weight traning days or does it really matter? Going to download the 5x5 spreadsheet!

Your understanding is wrong. While cardio is used during the "cutting" process to further create a calorie deficit it does have it uses during the "bulking" or offseason.

It's my understanding that cardio should be avoided when trying to gain muscle. If you want to do it, anyway, make sure you are getting enough calories, still to put you in a caloric surplus. Muscle is gained while your body is resting. Don't overdo it.

AntWrig

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

How is walking taxing the the CNS? Hell, even one session of ketllebell swings won't tax the CNS.

jayche

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

Benefit would be a stronger cardiovascular system to increase workout intensity on lifting days. Moderate/Low intensity cardio has been shown to improve recovery, not impede it.

ninerbuff

I started out almost 30 years ago at 124lbs. and was given just a starting program of pullups, squats and bench for 3 solid months. I did 4 sets of 6-12 reps 3 times a week. This help start a good base for me.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

AntWrig

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

Benefit would be a stronger cardiovascular system to increase workout intensity on lifting days. Moderate/Low intensity cardio has been shown to improve recovery, not impede it.

Well said.

thatwrestler

Definitley switch the muscle groups you work from day to day, I would do something more like this (by days) cardio, legs; cardio, upper; cardio; cardio, core; cardio; legs; cardio, upper. But really you can do everything those machines are giving you by yourself, if you can just get in a matted room and do some combination of running, pushups, planks, v ups, mountain climbers, high knees, and other high intensity drills you'll be working more muscle groups with less isolation. That way your muscle is general (unless you're going for a specific spot but that generally comes later). Good luck! P.S. Find a spotter!!

auroranflash

3 or 4x a week alternating muscle groups is plenty -- feed your body nutritious food with emphasis on quality protein and don't go crazy on the cardio, if any. Make sure you're lifting heavy and aim to increase the weight while paying attention to form so you work the muscles you're trying to work and don't injure yourself in the process. If you're starting out, watch plenty of videos -- try to be as self-aware as possible, have a spotter, trainer, or a knowledgeable friend on hand to help. Stick with a program and track your progress regularly. And listen to some of the knowledgeable folks on this forum, they definitely know what they're talking about. It's not about going to extremes, it's about sticking to a plan. Best of luck.

SideSteel

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

Benefit would be a stronger cardiovascular system to increase workout intensity on lifting days. Moderate/Low intensity cardio has been shown to improve recovery, not impede it.

Well said.

I don't do any cardio simply because I hate it, but regarding potential benefits: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html

Just linking that for whoever is interested, it's a good read.

auroranflash

p.s. make sure you incorporate a good stretching routine, it will help reduce risk of injury.

AntWrig

Cardio during a bulk will do nothing but benefit you as long as you eat more calories to compensate.

So eat back the calories and net zero, all the while taxing his recovery system? Where's the benefit? Pass

Benefit would be a stronger cardiovascular system to increase workout intensity on lifting days. Moderate/Low intensity cardio has been shown to improve recovery, not impede it.

Well said.

I don't do any cardio simply because I hate it, but regarding potential benefits: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html

Just linking that for whoever is interested, it's a good read.

I feel the same way. I deplore it.

Lift_hard_eat_big

Lift heavy weights, eat lots of food, get plenty of rest, you'll be living the good life.