feud with the gym teacher

jimmmer

It sounds pretty damn sketchy to me as far as the physiological reasoning, but even then you're talking about a technique for athletes intended to improve an already fit swimmer's cardiovascular system to an even greater level of fitness. Not something you tell an out of breath 4th grader.

Well, I don't know if it works for trained athletes or untrained 4th graders, and that's the point I suspect. It's been a bit controversial in it's natural home (i.e. swimming coaching) so I don't doubt it's even more controversial for running coaching. I had two observations:

1) Why couldn't a school coach be a fitness expert? I mean they could be a useless tool for all I know.... but they could really know their stuff also. Not enough information has been supplied to make a determination at this point. Dan Johns is/was a school coach and he's pretty awesome. This guy is probably no Dan Johns though.....

2) Just because something sounds "weird" doesn't mean it has no merit in coaching athletes......

I've not coached many world class runners, so I'm going to hold off on whether this technique actually works for that demographic or not. I suspect it's one of those things where your coach believes in it, you believe in your coach and it enables you to dig deep and find something extra. In that regard it's probably more psychological than physiological. In this particular case, with this particular 4th grader, it seems to have had no physiological benefits and seems to have had bad psychological effects. Time for coach to go back to his bag of tricks and find something that works for this 4th grade athlete!

meg7399

Whoa, whoa, whoa here. Exercise physiologists? Asthma testing? Physical violence to the teacher? Guys, we have a kid that isn't used to running, and he got out of breath doing it. This is normal. The teacher gave (poor in my opinion, though the child may have misunderstood as someone else points out) advice. Talk to the teacher, tell him you think the breath holding thing is bad, and help the child by showing him the correct way to improve. If after a legitimate attempt to improve there is still a breathing issue, then start thinking about talking to a doctor. Jumping to asthma at this point is like assuming that every time you have the sniffles you should get a meningitis test.

Nearly everyone gets out of breath when they first start trying to run any distance, this is becasue nearly everyone tries to run too fast. The speed at which you should start distance training is always slower than seems reasonable.

voice of reason. He is a 4th grader he was sprinting and is now winded. Also, let me say again he is a 4th grader, who knows what the teacher told him! My kid comes home saying that her teacher said the darnedest things, and as I teacher I know thats not true for a teacher to say! Kids misunderstand lots of what gets said to them...especially while trying to run a 9 minute mile.

nancycaregiver

When my son was in the 4th grade, he came home telling me he ran the mile in 9:03, missing getting his shirt by 3 seconds. Since he was so close, they let him try again the next day. So I gave him some advice. I told him that he did not need to start off running as fast as he can. I told him to take it easy at the start, keep a steady pace, then kick it on on the last corner of the soccer field his last time around. Pretty sound advice, right?
So he comes home the next day and I asked how it went. His time was 12:58. WHAT? He said, I did exactly what you said! I walked until my last turn of the field then I started running. Sometimes 4th graders hear advice differently that it is actually said. I'm hoping this is the case with your son. Tell him the correct way to deal with it and if it continues, go talk to the teacher. If you are not satisfied, THEN go talk to the principal. You don't have to beat anybody up till you get all the facts. Then if the guy turns out to be as big an idiot as your son says, beat him to a pulp!

orapronobis

First, realize that your son may not have understood the instruction. When you approach this, watch out how you come off to the teacher. When my daughter was little, my goal was to never have the teacher looking at my innocent little girl and seeing my angry face. Approach him as if you want his advice. Explain that "maybe my son didn't understand...." Be sure not to get him on the defensive. You want him to feel that you are working together for the child's benefit, and you should be doing that. Teachers can make life MISERABLE or WONDERFUL for your child when you are not there. So, get him on your side, and on your child's side. I'll never forget my very first parent/teacher meeting with my daughter's kindergarten teacher (15 years ago). She said to me, "I wish I had scheduled you last so that my day would end nicely." She appreciated my respect for her and always treated my daughter like the child of a good friend. It's a model I followed throughout my daughter's school years and I never met a teacher or administrator who didn't bend over backward to listen and help when needed.

Azdak

So I am not a marathon runner, but I have always been taught that while running, you should aim to breathe in a natural, steady, rhythmic pattern with your footfalls....in through the nose, out through the mouth.

So...

My son came home from school the other day complaining about running in gym class. Mind you, he is not a runner and gets winded pretty quickly, but he tries. He stopped to catch his breath and his gym teacher told him that when he is struggling to breathe while running, he should hold his breath as long as he can and push through it. My son says that he feels like he's going to pass out when he does this but the teacher insists.

We're not talking about track & field or cross country here...we are talking about 4th graders.

Am I right to be upset or is there a benefit to holding your breath while running???

Unless your son misheard (always possible), there is no sound physiological basis for the gym teachers' instructions.

Breathing rates are closely synched with the metabolic demands of activity. If someone is struggling to breathe, it's because the demands of the activity are greater than their fitness ability (exceptions listed below). Trying to stop breathing at that point is absurd and potentially unhealthy--like shutting off the gas line to a car to make it run faster.

Now, there are a couple of instances where excessive shortness of breath might be caused be something other than metabolic demand. One is tension/stress/anxiety, which certainly is not going to be helped by subjecting the child to an unpleasant activity like trying to hold his breath. The other is an asthma-like reaction.

The response to almost all of those possibilities is a more gradual warm up, or to engage in a gradual interval-like program (not high-intensity intervals, but just alternating work and recovery) to build up stamina and gain confidence.

BTW, the whole "breathe in through the nose and out the mouth" thing is misguided as well. As intensity of effort increases, you need to be able to ventilate as much air as possible and restricting that by nose-breathing is like putting a plastic bag over your head.

Using a rhythmic breathing pattern to reduce body tension or dissociate from exercise effort can be a helpful technique, but the actual breathing still has to match the metabolic needs of the effort---and ultimately those needs will override everything else.

Rays_Wife

First, realize that your son may not have understood the instruction. When you approach this, watch out how you come off to the teacher. When my daughter was little, my goal was to never have the teacher looking at my innocent little girl and seeing my angry face. Approach him as if you want his advice. Explain that "maybe my son didn't understand...." Be sure not to get him on the defensive. You want him to feel that you are working together for the child's benefit, and you should be doing that. Teachers can make life MISERABLE or WONDERFUL for your child when you are not there. So, get him on your side, and on your child's side. I'll never forget my very first parent/teacher meeting with my daughter's kindergarten teacher (15 years ago). She said to me, "I wish I had scheduled you last so that my day would end nicely." She appreciated my respect for her and always treated my daughter like the child of a good friend. It's a model I followed throughout my daughter's school years and I never met a teacher or administrator who didn't bend over backward to listen and help when needed.

Words of wisdom right here. I'm going to remember this!

cubbies77

Whoa, whoa, whoa here. Exercise physiologists? Asthma testing? Physical violence to the teacher? Guys, we have a kid that isn't used to running, and he got out of breath doing it. This is normal. The teacher gave (poor in my opinion, though the child may have misunderstood as someone else points out) advice. Talk to the teacher, tell him you think the breath holding thing is bad, and help the child by showing him the correct way to improve. If after a legitimate attempt to improve there is still a breathing issue, then start thinking about talking to a doctor. Jumping to asthma at this point is like assuming that every time you have the sniffles you should get a meningitis test.

Nearly everyone gets out of breath when they first start trying to run any distance, this is becasue nearly everyone tries to run too fast. The speed at which you should start distance training is always slower than seems reasonable.

This.

Also, the Presidential Fitness Test is just something that's done every year. Our PE teacher marked down our results, and that was that. If you got an award, cool. If not, no biggie. It's not a standardized test like the ACT. It's just criteria to show which kids are fit and which kids might need some help. I always failed rope climbing.

To those who said, "It's just a gym teacher, not someone with training," there are some gym teachers who studied PhysEd in college. A friend of mine did that program. It was under the education department, like secondary ed, and her major involved lots of sports, how to teach sports, nutrition classes, etc. I thought it was just "let's go play kickball and get our degree" and kind of teased her at first (not meanly, just two friends drinking wine and bantering), and then she showed me her class requirements.

ijavagypsy

That makes sense.

ijavagypsy

So I am not a marathon runner, but I have always been taught that while running, you should aim to breathe in a natural, steady, rhythmic pattern with your footfalls....in through the nose, out through the mouth.

So...

My son came home from school the other day complaining about running in gym class. Mind you, he is not a runner and gets winded pretty quickly, but he tries. He stopped to catch his breath and his gym teacher told him that when he is struggling to breathe while running, he should hold his breath as long as he can and push through it. My son says that he feels like he's going to pass out when he does this but the teacher insists.

We're not talking about track & field or cross country here...we are talking about 4th graders.

Am I right to be upset or is there a benefit to holding your breath while running???

Unless your son misheard (always possible), there is no sound physiological basis for the gym teachers' instructions.

Breathing rates are closely synched with the metabolic demands of activity. If someone is struggling to breathe, it's because the demands of the activity are greater than their fitness ability (exceptions listed below). Trying to stop breathing at that point is absurd and potentially unhealthy--like shutting off the gas line to a car to make it run faster.

Now, there are a couple of instances where excessive shortness of breath might be caused be something other than metabolic demand. One is tension/stress/anxiety, which certainly is not going to be helped by subjecting the child to an unpleasant activity like trying to hold his breath. The other is an asthma-like reaction.

The response to almost all of those possibilities is a more gradual warm up, or to engage in a gradual interval-like program (not high-intensity intervals, but just alternating work and recovery) to build up stamina and gain confidence.

BTW, the whole "breathe in through the nose and out the mouth" thing is misguided as well. As intensity of effort increases, you need to be able to ventilate as much air as possible and restricting that by nose-breathing is like putting a plastic bag over your head.

Using a rhythmic breathing pattern to reduce body tension or dissociate from exercise effort can be a helpful technique, but the actual breathing still has to match the metabolic needs of the effort---and ultimately those needs will override everything else.

That makes sense.

NicoleHernandezz

So I am not a marathon runner, but I have always been taught that while running, you should aim to breathe in a natural, steady, rhythmic pattern with your footfalls....in through the nose, out through the mouth.

So...

My son came home from school the other day complaining about running in gym class. Mind you, he is not a runner and gets winded pretty quickly, but he tries. He stopped to catch his breath and his gym teacher told him that when he is struggling to breathe while running, he should hold his breath as long as he can and push through it. My son says that he feels like he's going to pass out when he does this but the teacher insists.

We're not talking about track & field or cross country here...we are talking about 4th graders.

Am I right to be upset or is there a benefit to holding your breath while running???

I would be heated and the "teacher" and I would have a serious encounter!

drgndancer

BTW, the whole "breathe in through the nose and out the mouth" thing is misguided as well. As intensity of effort increases, you need to be able to ventilate as much air as possible and restricting that by nose-breathing is like putting a plastic bag over your head.

Yes and no. If you're doing something that leaves you gasping, like a HIIT workout, by all means match your breathing with intensity in whatever way you can. If you have to mouth breath to get enough oxygen, go for it. You shouldn't be gasping during a distance run. It's a steady state aerobic activity. When you're doing a steady state aerobic activity your breathing should be heavier than normal, but not gasping. In this case, barring sinus issues or something preventing normal breathing, you should breath in through the nose and out through the mouth. We're built to breathe through our noses, and the sinus cavities clean a lot of impurities out of the air we breath when the nose is used.

RGv2

So I am not a marathon runner, but I have always been taught that while running, you should aim to breathe in a natural, steady, rhythmic pattern with your footfalls....in through the nose, out through the mouth.

So...

My son came home from school the other day complaining about running in gym class. Mind you, he is not a runner and gets winded pretty quickly, but he tries. He stopped to catch his breath and his gym teacher told him that when he is struggling to breathe while running, he should hold his breath as long as he can and push through it. My son says that he feels like he's going to pass out when he does this but the teacher insists.

We're not talking about track & field or cross country here...we are talking about 4th graders.

Am I right to be upset or is there a benefit to holding your breath while running???

I would be heated and the "teacher" and I would have a serious encounter!

Why?

mizzie1980

I'm not a runner, not a PE teacher and not a doctor. But my, admittedly limited, knowledge of exercise, muscles and air says that's a BAD idea. Your body needs air. The faster our hearts pump, the faster the blood flows and therefore the faster we need to breathe to supply the air for the blood. It's actually not healthy to push yourself to the point of passing out, that's your body's way of telling you to slow down a bit. It's one thing if you are in training, quiet another when we are talking about children in PE.

So, I'd like to hear that teacher explain, to my satisfaction, how holding your breath in this situation is supposed to help!?! You would be denying your body what it needs, when it needs it the most.

JennaM222

sorry I LOL-ed at this

really? Hold your breath while running?

blisster96

It's a school gym coach...they're not fitness experts!

I'm not sure a school coach couldn't be an expert.

It was apparently a technique in vogue with swimming coaches once - meant to increase conditioning faster. Does it work? Does it work for running? Of that, I have no idea......

I'm on a swim team and one of the things we do is breath control but I have never heard of doing that for running.

scottb81

I've read a lot of running training books written by Olympians and Olympic level coaches and I have never heard of the idea of running while holding your breath.

Physiologically it doesn't make any sense.

mommyskis

I can't believe how many people want to go bash the teacher right off based on the words of a fourth grader. I am a teacher - how would you like it if we believed everything your kids told us about you? It could just be a misunderstanding, which you can't know unless you chat with that teacher. Kids sometimes have a different perspective on situations and they aren't being dishonest, they just saw things differently perhaps because of emotions or just because they are KIDS. You can talk quietly with a kid about a poor choice they made and they can go home and tell their parents you yelled at them. Getting angry at a teacher without any discussion with him or her is not going to make the situation any better.

Doodlewhopper

I can't believe how many people want to go bash the teacher right off based on the words of a fourth grader. I am a teacher - how would you like it if we believed everything your kids told us about you? It could just be a misunderstanding, which you can't know unless you chat with that teacher. Kids sometimes have a different perspective on situations and they aren't being dishonest, they just saw things differently perhaps because of emotions or just because they are KIDS. You can talk quietly with a kid about a poor choice they made and they can go home and tell their parents you yelled at them. Getting angry at a teacher without any discussion with him or her is not going to make the situation any better.

^^^^Good practice for all of life's situations. Knowledge before action.

A teacher friend had a student tell her that he walked into his parents bedroom one night and found his daddy "wearing lady clothes". After a few weeks we discovered that the kid spoke the truth....dad was merely helping mom sew a dress and the funny thing is, mom was leading the kids in teasing daddy for "wearing lady clothes! After 4 years the dad still pays the price at the golf course ! lol "lady clothes your out"

jimmmer

I've read a lot of running training books written by Olympians and Olympic level coaches and I have never heard of the idea of running while holding your breath.

Physiologically it doesn't make any sense.

Mary Decker's coach. Guy was a Brazilian. He also coached a fellow countryman to gold over shorter distances. Here's some info:

http://www.viewzone.com/breathing.html

not sure I've ever heard of any other coaches using the technique in training runners. Again, if the athlete believes in their coach that's probably more important than any "technique" when you're close to your genetic potential anyway. It's the mind that gets you that extra of couple of percentage points and separates the greats from the also rans.

cubbies77

I can't believe how many people want to go bash the teacher right off based on the words of a fourth grader. I am a teacher - how would you like it if we believed everything your kids told us about you? It could just be a misunderstanding, which you can't know unless you chat with that teacher. Kids sometimes have a different perspective on situations and they aren't being dishonest, they just saw things differently perhaps because of emotions or just because they are KIDS. You can talk quietly with a kid about a poor choice they made and they can go home and tell their parents you yelled at them. Getting angry at a teacher without any discussion with him or her is not going to make the situation any better.

Bingo!

upgetupgetup

I can't believe how many people want to go bash the teacher right off based on the words of a fourth grader. I am a teacher - how would you like it if we believed everything your kids told us about you? It could just be a misunderstanding, which you can't know unless you chat with that teacher. Kids sometimes have a different perspective on situations and they aren't being dishonest, they just saw things differently perhaps because of emotions or just because they are KIDS. You can talk quietly with a kid about a poor choice they made and they can go home and tell their parents you yelled at them. Getting angry at a teacher without any discussion with him or her is not going to make the situation any better.

Of course, discuss, clarify any possible confusion. Key point though: kid = not happy about gym class. 'Emotions' or 'being kids' are all real experiences.

Whatever misunderstanding took place, if that's what it was, that kid left probably more than one class feeling distressed and this teacher's efforts to remedy that, if it's even been noticed, have sucked so far (or at least been insensitive, which is not unheard of in teachers, sorry).

More flies caught with honey than vinegar, so yes tread carefully, be positive, etc.

devastation77

So I am not a marathon runner, but I have always been taught that while running, you should aim to breathe in a natural, steady, rhythmic pattern with your footfalls....in through the nose, out through the mouth.

So...

My son came home from school the other day complaining about running in gym class. Mind you, he is not a runner and gets winded pretty quickly, but he tries. He stopped to catch his breath and his gym teacher told him that when he is struggling to breathe while running, he should hold his breath as long as he can and push through it. My son says that he feels like he's going to pass out when he does this but the teacher insists.

We're not talking about track & field or cross country here...we are talking about 4th graders.

Am I right to be upset or is there a benefit to holding your breath while running???

This sounds like it would work really well....in making a person pass out.

Granada88

Whoa, whoa, whoa here. Exercise physiologists? Asthma testing? Physical violence to the teacher? Guys, we have a kid that isn't used to running, and he got out of breath doing it. This is normal. The teacher gave (poor in my opinion, though the child may have misunderstood as someone else points out) advice. Talk to the teacher, tell him you think the breath holding thing is bad, and help the child by showing him the correct way to improve. If after a legitimate attempt to improve there is still a breathing issue, then start thinking about talking to a doctor. Jumping to asthma at this point is like assuming that every time you have the sniffles you should get a meningitis test.

Nearly everyone gets out of breath when they first start trying to run any distance, this is because nearly everyone tries to run too fast. The speed at which you should start distance training is always slower than seems reasonable.

I agree with this statement here. Training your breathing is as important as training to perform the task at hand. Controlled breathing is obviously very important in whatever sport we pursue. It's hard to imagine why a PE teacher would push this sort of thing on to a child. But, again the child may have misunderstood what the teacher was saying. But, if the child is CORRECT about what the teacher was telling him to do?? That teacher has no business teaching PE class. Because he hasn't a freaking CLUE what he's doing. But, that and a $1.50 can get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere.

cubbies77

Have you spoken with his teacher yet? How did it turn out?

EatClean_WashUrNuts

Common sense says ...

LoveMyLife_NYC

I can't believe how many people want to go bash the teacher right off based on the words of a fourth grader. I am a teacher - how would you like it if we believed everything your kids told us about you? It could just be a misunderstanding, which you can't know unless you chat with that teacher. Kids sometimes have a different perspective on situations and they aren't being dishonest, they just saw things differently perhaps because of emotions or just because they are KIDS. You can talk quietly with a kid about a poor choice they made and they can go home and tell their parents you yelled at them. Getting angry at a teacher without any discussion with him or her is not going to make the situation any better.

THANK you! As a fellow teacher, the bashing here was making me really angry! ALL of your children's teachers need to be highly qualified in order to be in charge of the students, including art, music, and PE. This means, they would have had to go to school to study the subject, earn a degree (in some states a master's as well), pass the state tests, and get hired by the school district.

I've had some unhappy kids in my music class, and that mostly happens when the kid is either too shy to speak up about a problem or they cannot articulate what is wrong -- even when I know there's a problem and start a dialogue. That could be what's happening here. All it takes is a civil conversation with the teacher and some teamwork to make the situation positive. The teacher isn't being malicious. He made a suggestion. And if it's causing stress for your son, I'm sure he wants to speak with you about it. His goal as a PE teacher is to make sure the children are active and find joy and confidence while exercising. It is most definitely NOT to make your fourth grade son miserable all year.

chubbygirl253

I run 2-4 miles a day, 5 or more days a week and I dont hold my breath. That sounds ridiculous to me.

Just playing devil's advocate, could your son have confused the message? You may want to hear it straight from the teacher before you get your mama bear claws out. Or is it possible your child hates running enough that he is giving the teacher excuses when breathing trouble isnt really the problem? Kids do that. You ask them to clean their room and they have a jillion excuses, drag their feet, and make it much harder than it needed to be because they just didnt want to. Just get the teachers side before you make a judgement on the subject. I'm not saying your child is lying, but it could be a misunderstanding. I agree with being an advocate for children. But they are human, not perfect. It's hard to see your kids in the wrong, to be objective. This week it's been on our local news that a mentally challenged middle-schooler was kicked off a school bus miles from home when the bus driver realized she wasnt supposed to be on that bus. The school investigated and they didn't even have a bus that went in the route she was found. It later came out that the girl lied because she was scared she would get in trouble for dawdling and missing her bus. But first that mom was all over the news talking about what a horrible human being the bus driver is.

Do talk to the teacher. If he is in fact trying to make your kid hold his breath to run, go to the principal and raise all hell. But get all the info first. Hear both sides. Make sure the 4th grader is fully understanding the teacher. Make sure your kid isnt being obstinent, like kids often do.

avababy05

You should speak to the teacher directly.I run and I do have asthma and when I have difficulty breathing AFTER a run I do breath in through my nose and then slowing out of my mouth.A lot of times I find if I start THINKING too much about my breathing and the possibilty of having an asthma attack,I am more likely to have an asthma attack.More of an anxiety reaction.But for I child I would take no chances and get to the root of what you were told by your son.