Organic foods debunked

Heidi64

I copied this...

We are bombarded by the current adage that Organic fruits and vegetables are far superior in nutrition and safety than non-organic and that justifies the much higher prices. Well, from the results of this Stanford research study, maybe we should rethink that one:

"Any shopper can tell that organic fruits and vegetables are expensive. Now a peer-reviewed academic study tells us that they’re no more healthful than conventional products.

Researchers at Stanford University’s Center for Health Policy analyzed 237 studies in the scientific literature for evidence that organic foods are safer or healthier. They found that fruits and vegetables that met the criteria for “organic” are on average neither more nutritious than their far cheaper conventional counterparts nor less likely to be contaminated by pathogenic bacteria like E. coli or Salmonella."

But, Organic doesn't allow pesticides, especially synthetics! Wrong again.

"Ironically, the designation “organic” is itself a synthetic bureaucratic construct that makes little sense. It prohibits the use of synthetic chemical pesticides — except for a long list of exceptions detailed in the Organic Foods Production Act.

Moreover, the definition permits most “natural” pesticides (and also OKs the use of pathogen-laden animal excreta as fertilizer).

These permitted pesticides can be toxic."

Organic growing methods also worse for the environment due to 20% - 50% lower production yields per acre. Bottom line?

"Save your money. It’s more cost-effective, environmentally responsible and humane to buy conventional food than the high-priced organic stuff."

Of course, it is YOUR money, so spend it however you wish. Maybe next they need to study the placebo effect of just thinking you are eating healthier...

Lots more info here: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/don_eat_your_organic_veggies_lmKSN9VIJGE3HjG7kRhsiO

Heidi64

bumping cuz this got pushed off of the recent post page real quick.

neverstray

I thought everyone knew this. Organic is meaningless completely in the USA.

faireplay

What I don't understand is why people want so badly to "debunk" organics. If I choose to buy organic on the chance that there is indeed some truth to the concept then why do others care? It's my money and I opt to spend a little more even if it is only eliminating a portion of the normally consumed pesticides. No one is forcing anyone to buy organic but those who don't seem almost cranky about the whole thing.
I don't buy blindly into every fad that comes along. I do my research and for every article posted that claims to debunk organics I can post one that refutes it. At least no one is knocking on your door or bombarding your email trying to convince you to spend money on organic, unlike those promoting the magic health and weight loss properties of Shakeology or Herbal Life.

neverstray

What I don't understand is why people want so badly to "debunk" organics. If I choose to buy organic on the chance that there is indeed some truth to the concept then why do others care? It's my money and I opt to spend a little more even if it is only eliminating a portion of the normally consumed pesticides. No one is forcing anyone to buy organic but those who don't seem almost cranky about the whole thing.
I don't buy blindly into every fad that comes along. I do my research and for every article posted that claims to debunk organics I can post one that refutes it. At least no one is knocking on your door or bombarding your email trying to convince you to spend money on organic, unlike those promoting the magic health and weight loss properties of Shakeology or Herbal Life.

Information is power. Once organics became a thing, the corporations lobbied and invented ways around the laws. It's just total bs. I don't care what anyone does, I just think its important to understand what it is.

The sad part of this is that there are actually true organic farmers out there. But, how do you know which is which. It's like giving money to a homeless person. You don't know if they're really homeless or not, so I just don't give any money to any of them.

darthjen

My concern with food is the amount of pesticides in it, I don't have irrational preconceived notions that a food item can be grown on a large scale with some pesticides. I've read various recent studies on what benefits organic food offers. The general consensus is that while organic food of course still has pesticides, it has far less. For example, eating organic strawberries (very "dirty" fruit) over non-organic.

quirkytizzy

About the only thing I could see buying organic for would be support local growers (always a cool thing to do) and to stick it to the man (also a pretty cool thing to do.)

I do really like the taste of organic milk. But that could just be that my taste buds are lazy.

entropy83

I second never stray to an extent. Organics meant a lot more before the USDA stepped in. Most giant box store grocers are able to dodge or simply pay the fines of contaminated "organics". Before the USDA took over there was Oregon Tilth and CAI which were smaller orgs that were serious about organics. Also, manure has pathogens and probiotics. However, I disagree that I won't support them. I would rather support something that at least attempts to apply environmental principals than continue supporting Monsanto and Co. Also, organic is also lumped in with local agriculture which also is a great way to get to know your food better. However, I am more concerned with pesticide and hormone use so organics tend to address these issues.

toddis

I was going to join a CSA (community supported agriculture) but then I found out they washed their produce in their pond. Eww!

AshleyNicolexo_

I don't buy all organic.. just ones with the highest levels of pesticides on them.

reklawn

To each their own. I personally prefer organic when I can. Maybe it means nothing, but I will pay a little extra for the insurance, especially with all of the GMOS creeping in. I don't buy everything organic, but I certainly stick to the dirty dozen and grains. Plus, it really isn't that much expensive if you are vegetarian/vegan.

Mokey41

I work in the food industry and organic produce is a joke. Eat if if you want but you aren't getting what you think you're paying the extra money for.

reklawn

I work in the food industry and organic produce is a joke. Eat if if you want but you aren't getting what you think you're paying the extra money for.

Proof?

dayone987

I work in the food industry and organic produce is a joke. Eat if if you want but you aren't getting what you think you're paying the extra money for.

Proof?

The study cited in the OP?

Mokey41

There is virtually no regulation on the whole industry and large corporations will pay the fines if they get caught in order to still be able to keep their big mark ups. It's not all sunshine and roses on an organic farm. If you want to be more educated check out the chemicals and additives that are allowed by the organic industry.

AEFidgets

First my question would be who financed the study? And then I would say that even if organic apples have only 1/10 of the pesticide as conventional ones that's still a much better deal. Am I asking everyone to buy it? Hell no, but I do and I will continue to do so.

AEFidgets

The review yielded scant evidence that conventional foods posed greater health risks than organic products. While researchers found that organic produce had a 30 percent lower risk of pesticide contamination than conventional fruits and vegetables, organic foods are not necessarily 100 percent free of pesticides. What’s more, as the researchers noted, the pesticide levels of all foods generally fell within the allowable safety limits. Two studies of children consuming organic and conventional diets did find lower levels of pesticide residues in the urine of children on organic diets, though the significance of these findings on child health is unclear. Additionally, organic chicken and pork appeared to reduce exposure to antibiotic-resistant bacteria, but the clinical significance of this is also unclear.

Lower levels of pesticides found in the urine of children......... hmmm might be a reason to keep eating orgainc and local when ever possible.


As for what the findings mean for consumers, the researchers said their aim is to educate people, not to discourage them from making organic purchases. “If you look beyond health effects, there are plenty of other reasons to buy organic instead of conventional,” noted Bravata. She listed taste preferences and concerns about the effects of conventional farming practices on the environment and animal welfare as some of the reasons people choose organic products.


“Our goal was to shed light on what the evidence is,” said Smith-Spangler. “This is information that people can use to make their own decisions based on their level of concern about pesticides, their budget and other considerations.”

She also said that people should aim for healthier diets overall. She emphasized the importance of eating of fruits and vegetables, “however they are grown,” noting that most Americans don’t consume the recommended amount.

In discussing limitations of their work, the researchers noted the heterogeneity of the studies they reviewed due to differences in testing methods; physical factors affecting the food, such as weather and soil type; and great variation among organic farming methods. With regard to the latter, there may be specific organic practices (for example, the way that manure fertilizer, a risk for bacterial contamination, is used and handled) that could yield a safer product of higher nutritional quality.

“What I learned is there’s a lot of variation between farming practices,” said Smith-Spangler. “It appears there are a lot of different factors that are important in predicting nutritional quality and harms.”

Other Stanford co-authors are Margaret Brandeau, PhD, the Coleman F. Fung Professor in the School of Engineering; medical students Grace Hunter, J. Clay Bavinger and Maren Pearson; research assistant Paul Eschbach; Vandana Sundaram, MPH, assistant director for research at CHP/PCOR; Hau Liu, MD, MBA, clinical assistant professor of medicine at Stanford and senior director at Castlight Health; Patricia Schirmer, MD, infectious disease physician with the Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System; medical librarian Christopher Stave, MLS; and Ingram Olkin, PhD, professor emeritus of statistics and of education. The authors received no external funding for this study. <<<< Great but who financed the original studies??

dayone987

First my question would be who financed the study? And then I would say that even if organic apples have only 1/10 of the pesticide as conventional ones that's still a much better deal. Am I asking everyone to buy it? Hell no, but I do and I will continue to do so.

No one is telling you not to buy or accusing you of trying to coerce others to buy.
The article is providing information (from a reputable source) so others can make the best choice for themselves.

athenawho

I work in an organic grocery store and I took the classes and training to learn about organics and the procedure we must take when handling organics and although yes they are more expensive and yes they many not be any better than non-organic products. I still feel better buying them.

I'm lucky because I get an employee discount so I can afford it but I know a lot of people don't want to dish out the extra cash for apples and broccoli.

In the end, if you want to lose weight and need motivation to eat your fruits and veggies then buy organic.



Why?

Because they have no preservatives in them so you need to eat them quickly before they go bad

AEFidgets

I agree that your aren't telling me to stop buying but the NY paper is saying not to waste one's money on organic. When clearly if we actually read the paper put out by Stanford they don't say that organics are a waste of money. They say that if you look at them for more then the health reasons they are a good deal. Not to mention the finding of less pesticides in children's urine, seems like a good health benefit to me. I think that the article as posted by the paper cherry picked the bits that would make "good copy" and didn't present a fair presentation of all the facts. And since it's a "respected source" people don't look further into it. And that my friends pisses me off.

n0ob

The fight between organic vs. non is such a miniscule health risk/benefit vs. overly processed and nutrient poor diets.

Eat whole foods, and feel good about it, organic or not.

BrettPGH

yes they are more expensive and yes they many not be any better than non-organic products. I still feel better buying them.

The only honest reason people buy organic foods. They feel all warm and fuzzy doing it. You can post all the logic that you want that they are no healthier, aren't even pesiticide free, and in fact in many ways can be more likely to cause sickness or disease than their non-organically labelled counterparts.

Doesn't matter. To some people organic will always be better. Because.. chemicals.

amanda_catherine

but organic peppers taste better.. .as do bananas they are creamier and yummier... other than that.. umm ya i just buy local... i bought organic lettuce once and it was covered with dozens and dozens of little green worms that were moving around....

underwater77

I personally have always thought it better to buy locally than organically. That's just me.

I do still buy organic milk, eggs, and meat when I can.

jenilla1

Once organics became a thing, the corporations lobbied and invented ways around the laws...The sad part of this is that there are actually true organic farmers out there. But, how do you know which is which. It's like giving money to a homeless person. You don't know if they're really homeless or not, so I just don't give any money to any of them.

So sad but true. Everything pure gets perverted by greed.
If you know the source (even better if it's local and you can personally fact check it) it's easier to trust the claims, but food labeling is so unreliable and dishonest, for the most part it's just a guessing game.

EvgeniZyntx

The op Ed is very biased about a research paper that is rather neutral, or lightly pro-organic in its conclusions. I'm not pro organic but let's not make a research paper say what it does not.

leopardjunkie

what my organic oreo cookies are not healthier and safer?!?! say it isn"t so (snicker)

DesireeLovesOrganic

Then don't buy it. More for us! LOL We haven't had colds in a year, I will stick with what's working for us. No GMOs and here organic produce is cheap (California) and easy to get locally. It does taste better too.

foleyshirley

I personally have always thought it better to buy locally than organically. That's just me.

I do still buy organic milk, eggs, and meat when I can.

This is the real answer. Organic is now big business, and suffers from the same problems that plague all big business. There are now huge farms involved, leading to shipping issues. Nutritionally, it is not any better for you. Local is the way to go. They can wait until things ripen more naturally because the aren't shipping it nationally.

foleyshirley

Then don't buy it. More for us! LOL We haven't had colds in a year, I will stick with what's working for us. No GMOs and here organic produce is cheap (California) and easy to get locally. It does taste better too.

GMOs have nothing to do with colds.

missyfarr

The fight between organic vs. non is such a miniscule health risk/benefit vs. overly processed and nutrient poor diets.

Eat whole foods, and feel good about it, organic or not.

Pretty much agree with this post. I buy local as much as I can and even if the local stuff isn't certified "organic", a lot of times, it is organic. I know my farmers and have visited their farms. I also try to buy the dirty dozen organic whenever I can. We also buy organic milk (our kids eat a lot of cereal for breakfast).