"Starvation mode" a myth?

aelunyu

I've been trying to figure this out as well. Every day when I log in my food to myfitnesspal, I get the red warning that I need to eat more calories. It just doesn't feel right to increase my intake when I'm content where I am at. When I talked to my husband about it, we wondered if starvation mode was some kind of a myth because when people get bariatric surgery, it restricts calories and they lose weight...? Looking forward to some well informed responses.

starvation mode does not apply if you are morbidly obese, obese, or normal weight and trying to lose weight. it it's a long term phenomenon for people with low BF% who are severely deprived of their caloric needs.

whatever idiot trainer who first started talking about starvation mode with his/her weight loss clients really deserves a swift kick to the you-know-whats for ever bringing it up and muddying the waters of good weight loss information.

this is what I meant to quote..still new here..

now that starvation mode is out of the way, there does seem to be such a thing as metabolic slowdown due to dieting. that's what happens with people who spend years on yo-yo low calorie diets. they aren't depriving themselves to the point where there organs begin to be consumed, but they do deprive themselves enough to slow down their overall metabolism. it's uncertain just how much of a slow down occurs though.

so you don't want to try and live off of 800 calories a day even if you're 100 lbs overweight because after a number of months, you could affect your metabolism. i think part of that will be due to loss of LBM, but part of it also probably just your body adapting to the low calorie intake. once you go back to eating normal, the metabolism stays lower and you then put on weight more quickly. this alone is a good reason to avoid VLCD and yo-yo dieting.

other people have covered the subject in much more detail than i can.

so the executive summary is:

a) starvation mode? no, virtually nobody on MFP would ever have to worry about that.
b) metabolic slowdown? yes, this can happen if you have bad dieting habits, but we don't know how much that slowdown would be. avoid this if you can.

Just skimmed, but this guy is the TRUTH. for 95% of dieters that are not bodybuilders looking to get to 6% bodyfat. you will NEVER have to worry about "starvation mode" which is basically a hormonal (leptin) based response to extended cal deficit, coupled with not enough fat to sustain reasonable activity. So if you have fat stores, this is generally not going to happen to you.

Metabolic "slowdown" happens to most people. If you are sensible on your diet, and as you lose weight, you will have to eat less and less to continue to lose weight. That's just common sense. If you start at 300lb, and you're now 150, the amount you were eating to lose the first 10 lbs will probably not work to help you lose anymore.

Metabolice "syndrome" happens to many female fitness models or bikini models. They are so cardio focused and they have to diet so long that eventually their body essentially becomes super efficient on very very little caloric intake. Some girls cannot shed weight eating 900 calories a day and doing 3-4 hours of low intensity cardio. This is also not 95% of MFP'ers. This damage occurs over years of dieting, then adding weight, and dieting again, so their bodies no longer respond to dieting.

SHBoss1673

Google the minnesota starvation study. I've read the whole thing. Basically they were on limited diet of about 2200 calories per day and were asked to walk alot during the week 10-15 miles seems about right. Anyway their metabolisms didn't slow down until they were about 5% body fat.

This is absolutely false. I also read the whole 1300 plus page study (along with many other research studies and peer reviewed papers). BMR was reduced by 15% during the initial phase of the study and went as high as 40% lower during subsequent periods during the starvation section of the study, well before participants reached their low of BF% (approximately 5% on average). there were also documented reductions in the burning of body fat, muscle wasting (extreme catabolism), psychological issues, malnutrition, and a decrease in activity level and brain function as direct results of the reduction in calories. For the record, they were not given 2200 calories per day, it was about 1500 calories per day during the semi-starvation period and differing amounts depending on which re-feeding group they were in for the second period, the third period was unrestricted but monitored calories.

As a definition: starvation mode is described as the period where glycogen reserves are depleted without the body having the ability to replenish them, when we don't take in enough food to replenish glycogen reserves it takes anywhere from 24 to 72 hours to deplete glycogen stores. when this happens the body begins altering hormone levels in order to better take advantage of the fasting state. I won't go into details about what hormones change and what this does. But essentially the body recognizes the lack of fuel and begins storing fat at a higher rate and using dormant or little used muscle mass as a source of energy. It also alters and reduces the amount of energy used by the basal metabolic processes (the processes in the body that are autonomic and not governed by our conscious brain, I.E. breathing, digestion, organ function...etc) by slowing these processes to some degree (the degree depends on the extremity of the deficit, the work being done, and the individual)

I WILL say that people's perception of starvation mode is pretty messed up. It doesn't make you gain weight (not in the classic sense at least), it will change your body's priority for fuel burning, and it can take weeks and even months depending on the circumstances for these effects to become evident. As a side note it can do some serious damage to the human psyche as well.
Starvation mode IS real, it DOES happen, and it doesn't wait until 5% body fat to occur. For the record, 5% body fat for a woman is essentially someone who's already dangerously low, men can deal with it (although it's pretty rare outside of body competitions and almost never for periods extending over a month or two), but women start exhibiting warning signs at well above 5%.

cicisiam

"Google!"

PrimalSiren

IMO starvation mode is b.s. I have a lot of reasons why I think this, but I'll just post a few links and you can come up with your own conclusion.

http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

These threads are good to read as well, read the entire thread to get the most out of them.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread11050.html
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread53765.html

WinnerVictorious

Metabolic "slowdown" happens to most people. If you are sensible on your diet, and as you lose weight, you will have to eat less and less to continue to lose weight. That's just common sense. If you start at 300lb, and you're now 150, the amount you were eating to lose the first 10 lbs will probably not work to help you lose anymore.

Metabolice "syndrome" happens to many female fitness models or bikini models. They are so cardio focused and they have to diet so long that eventually their body essentially becomes super efficient on very very little caloric intake. Some girls cannot shed weight eating 900 calories a day and doing 3-4 hours of low intensity cardio. This is also not 95% of MFP'ers. This damage occurs over years of dieting, then adding weight, and dieting again, so their bodies no longer respond to dieting.

yes, this is what i meant. even when you lose weight the slow, healthy way, you're going to slow down your metabolism as your overall body mass decreases.

i was referring to something beyond that, what you call "metabolic syndrome".

FredDoyle

Google "Adaptive thermogenesis"

ryanb80

Starvation mode is a food marketing ploy IMO, make sure you eat plenty of our food so you don't go into starvation mode. This world is built on a million lies.

SHBoss1673

as someone stated above, Google adaptive thermogenesis which describes the starvation mode concept

for those that know how to read research, see:

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v31/n2/full/0803523a.html

you'll notice a number of links near the section titled
Determinant factors associated with adaptive thermogenesis

which point to other studies which have documented and analyzed this concept quite extensively. it's not new, I don't understand why people don't "believe" in it.

It's not a myth, it's not a marketing ploy, it's not a gimmick thought up by personal trainers to trick their clients.

It's widely misunderstood, but it that doesn't mean it's not true. Like anything, the facts surrounding it can be warped and misconstrued. But that doesn't make the concept of starvation mode false, it just means people aren't taking the time to do the research on it or are unable to correctly interpret the results already given by dozens of studies performed.

Happyme2009

I am a big eater. I eat all the time. Pretty much healthy natural foods, but lots and lots. I couldn't go in starvation more if I wanted to.

But this is me. Take my mother for example, and for her, the entire 5 small meals a day is garbage. She can only lose weight if she doesn't eat. Period. A couple of fruits and veggies. No sweets, fried stuff, refined carbs, sugar, meat. Maybe 2 meals a day for her, small. And then she loses weight. She tried the 5 small meals a day and it never works for her. Never, no matter how healthy she eats.
So I truly believe that everybody's metabolism is different. And starvation mode is a myth for at least 90 percent of people who live in today's day and age.
Starvation more was the body's mechanism of survival back in the time when humans were gatherers and hunters. When the body knew food was scarce and unpredictable. But those genes have long been modified. So yes, maybe a handful of people still have that problem... but mostly, it's not true. Unless you are doing the hunger strike.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

Read about some of the emotional and mental health effects of the Minnesota Starvation Study. One guy cut some of his own fingers off.

That one will stay with you.

Not eating enough is bad any way you slice it.

Ooops, tell me I didn't just go there?

This. I've never understood how the main takeaway from the Minnesota Starvation Study was the metabolic slowdown. I was way more interested in the psychological effects.

SHBoss1673

I am a big eater. I eat all the time. Pretty much healthy natural foods, but lots and lots. I couldn't go in starvation more if I wanted to.

But this is me. Take my mother for example, and for her, the entire 5 small meals a day is garbage. She can only lose weight if she doesn't eat. Period. A couple of fruits and veggies. No sweets, fried stuff, refined carbs, sugar, meat. Maybe 2 meals a day for her, small. And then she loses weight. She tried the 5 small meals a day and it never works for her. Never, no matter how healthy she eats.
So I truly believe that everybody's metabolism is different. And starvation mode is a myth for at least 90 percent of people who live in today's day and age.
Starvation more was the body's mechanism of survival back in the time when humans were gatherers and hunters. When the body knew food was scarce and unpredictable. But those genes have long been modified. So yes, maybe a handful of people still have that problem... but mostly, it's not true. Unless you are doing the hunger strike.

this is what I'm talking about, none of this is based in truth, it's all supposition, and opinion, therefore it isn't accurate.
How does how many meals you eat factor in? (Answer, it has nothing to do with starvation mode).
If you read the studies I pointed to, you'll see that the size of the person, or how obese they are has very little to do with how much metabolic slow down occurs, and in fact what this poster is saying is actually PROOF of starvation mode, not any kind of argument against it.
The other thing is, where would you come up with that 90% number? pulled right out of thin air is my guess. No bearing in fact, but you know what? Someone, a year from now, is going to look for proof for their own statement, find that 90% number and use it as proof. Thus fiction begets fiction. That is how myths happen.

OliveRiver

it's not a myth, it's just that 95% of people around here and EVERY OTHER weight loss site use the term mistakenly.

starvation mode is what happens when you have a low BF% and deprive yourself for a long period of time of the necessary calories to maintain your body. you're body will start to consume itself to stay alive when you nearly run out of fat reserves and are not eating enough calories.

this is what happened in WWII concentration camps.

starvation mode DOES NOT happen if you fast for 3 days or go to bed without eating dinner. people who think that are so badly misinformed it's scary.

there are studies about the subject.

look up the Minnesota Study done in the 1940's or 1950's with soldier volunteers, IIRC.

^ That exactly ^

dbutorac

You are absolutely correct.

SHBoss1673

it's not a myth, it's just that 95% of people around here and EVERY OTHER weight loss site use the term mistakenly.

starvation mode is what happens when you have a low BF% and deprive yourself for a long period of time of the necessary calories to maintain your body. you're body will start to consume itself to stay alive when you nearly run out of fat reserves and are not eating enough calories.

this is what happened in WWII concentration camps.

starvation mode DOES NOT happen if you fast for 3 days or go to bed without eating dinner. people who think that are so badly misinformed it's scary.

there are studies about the subject.

look up the Minnesota Study done in the 1940's or 1950's with soldier volunteers, IIRC.

^ That exactly ^

The majority of this does not line up with fact. In fact the Minnesota study mentioned in the first quote actually contradicts the idea that you need low body fat in order to enter starvation mode. Most of the participants recorded BMR decreases of between 15% and 25% (please make a note that if all goes as planned, in a reduced calorie diet, you should optimally never reduce BMR) while still in the first period of the study, when their body fat % was still well within normal ranges. Another corruption of starvation mode. Also, starvation mode isn't what is being described, the first quote is describing starvation, a completely different concept, starvation mode is simply adaptive thermogenesis, I.E. the body's recognition of a large caloric deficit over a period long enough to deplete glycogen reserves, which results in the reduction in Basal functions in the body, which means less energy expended and thus what you THINK you should be eating to lose weight is usually higher than what you actually need to lose weight, the body also places a priority on fat storage and lean mass reduction (efficiency) in order to reduce (again) energy expenditure.

bathsheba_c

it's not a myth, it's just that 95% of people around here and EVERY OTHER weight loss site use the term mistakenly.

starvation mode is what happens when you have a low BF% and deprive yourself for a long period of time of the necessary calories to maintain your body. you're body will start to consume itself to stay alive when you nearly run out of fat reserves and are not eating enough calories.

this is what happened in WWII concentration camps.

starvation mode DOES NOT happen if you fast for 3 days or go to bed without eating dinner. people who think that are so badly misinformed it's scary.

there are studies about the subject.

look up the Minnesota Study done in the 1940's or 1950's with soldier volunteers, IIRC.

^ That exactly ^

The majority of this does not line up with fact. In fact the Minnesota study mentioned in the first quote actually contradicts the idea that you need low body fat in order to enter starvation mode. Most of the participants recorded BMR decreases of between 15% and 25% (please make a note that if all goes as planned, in a reduced calorie diet, you should optimally never reduce BMR) while still in the first period of the study, when their body fat % was still well within normal ranges. Another corruption of starvation mode. Also, starvation mode isn't what is being described, the first quote is describing starvation, a completely different concept, starvation mode is simply adaptive thermogenesis, I.E. the body's recognition of a large caloric deficit over a period long enough to deplete glycogen reserves, which results in the reduction in Basal functions in the body, which means less energy expended and thus what you THINK you should be eating to lose weight is usually higher than what you actually need to lose weight, the body also places a priority on fat storage and lean mass reduction (efficiency) in order to reduce (again) energy expenditure.

Yes, thank you for correcting the "it only happens a low body fat" myth. I had two friends with eating disorders who were both clearly overweight. They were both put on what they described as a "disgusting" amount of food, and they began to lose weight.

Think about fat as being your body's bank account. If you got fired from your job, would you start cutting expenses immediately, or would you wait until you were almost out of savings?