1200, VLCD, and EM2WL

mustgetmuscles1

In my own defense I am an all or nothing kind of person, I have to press ALL the buttons! and try everything I can to see results. But the end of the minnesota semi-starvation study about how to refeed starving people in war torn europe clearly shows how to return to maintenance. I've only been cutting calories since September, and I only have 20 pounds left to go.

You really should not be bringing up the Minnesota starvation study to be justifying VLCDs. The side effects included:

- They became obsessed with food and weight
- They smoked more, some non-smokers became smokers.
- Their testosterone decreased to castrate levels
- Psychological tests confirmed that their hypochondria, hysteria, and depression had all increased markedly.
- Their metabolisms dropped
- They had may other physical issues

Thats all just bro hype.

ironanimal

Rather than swallowing supplements by the bucketload (multivits 3 times a day :huh: ), why not eat some more food?

Siege_Tank

Rather than swallowing supplements by the bucketload (multivits 3 times a day :huh: ), why not eat some more food?

Because of those nagging *kitten* carbs and fats that they are attached to, and I DO eat real food, I had eggs, ground turkey, and a double meat subway today. It's 3 am and I'm still half assed full from dinner at 7pm. /shrug

But aside from getting a haircut and driving to the subway, I moved zilch today. Cept my fingers

ETA: which I'm not complaining about, but you can kinda see why I'm not hungry, I haven't worked out in a while. when I DO lift I get ravenous as hell, and eat ALL the meats.

So for people who sit more than they move, maybe an active calorie level isn't what they need to maintain 1 lb/week

Junken_Diraffe

Also, not to point out the obvious, but you are not a war starved individual. You should not have to worry about how to "refeed" when you've met your weight loss goal. That is a ridiculous comparison.

Faye_Anderson

Boohoo, "I tried it for a month and it didn't work" Time to put your big girl panties on! I think it's laughable that you still think you can lose at 1350 then start eating at 2300 when you get to goal. Don't you realise that when you up your calories at goal week you're going to see a gain on the scales, panic and go back onto your restrictive calories again? Either that or gain back all you've lost when your body desperately clings to the nutrition you are giving it!
After being here 14 months I'm still learning but I see SO MANY people decide that overly low calorie diets are the way to go, I'd rather listen to someone who's fit and healthy who's worked for their body than someone who dithers around 1300 calories.
BTW I'm a 33 yr old 184lb female who's biggest movement yesterday was picking up the laptop and I'm eating 1800 cals. Recorded a loss this morning, I'm an ordinary person who's feeding her body and losing weight, go figure! :flowerforyou:

Sarauk2sf

5'5". 27 years old. I love working out, but aside from that, total desk jockey. I loathe my job (the pay is great, and the mental stimulation is exceptional, but no movement)

I take a multivitamin 3 times a day on cut days like this, have creatine, BCAA shakes, whey protein (which I will switch over to casein as soon as I run out of this whey stuff) and I usually add a dash (1/4 scoop) of preworkout to my BCAA and creatine shakes, just to get the extra aminos and creatine nitrates. The other creatine powder I use is mono.

ETA: I did not bring up the minnesota study to highlight the VLCD component of the study, but rather the main goal of the study, which was to find the best way to refeed a starving war torn population, like europe after WWII, and they did it sucessfully.

I would not really call it successful:

As soon as they were allowed to eat more, they gorged and slept most of the time they were not eating, as their bodies rejuvenated. They still had behavioral issues. They rapidly gained body fat and quickly exceeded their original weights by 10%. Eventually their body weight stabilized after about 9 months.

BCAA's really are not necessary imo.

I am 5 6", 45 years old, am 20lb lighter than you and have a desk job. I would lose 1lb a week on about 1,700 calories (I lose on 2,000 but at a slower rate). I do no cardio and strength train. I am not seeing how your numbers add up tbh. You should be able to lose on 2,000.

HeidiMightyRawr

You put in that you'd plan to exercise 6 days a week, but are sedentary. Therefore those 1300 calories are NET calories (you eat back exercise calories to maintain the correct deficit)

Helloitsdan's calculation was probably total calories, inclusive of all your activity. If you worked out 6x a week, and still ate just 1300 that would be far too little!

MFP says I would maintain on around 2000 net. I can actually lose on that.
For my cut, I eat a TOTAL (inclusive of exercise) of 2500 a day and lose fairly easily. This was trial and error.

ladyraven68

OP - you remind me a lot of Watboy.

he was always defending those on 1200 diets, and refused to accept there was another way, until finally, he gave in, followed Dan's numbers and training advice and is now far happier, and stronger than he ever was.

I'm sure if you had PM'd Dan rather than stated this thread he would have given you help.

mambagirl

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

myofibril

Oh good grief.

Do you need to be mindful about the context of the individual when giving advice? Yes. This includes their current body composition, their goals but also their previous dieting history. Can people with abundant fat stores handle steeper calorie deficits even if under their BMR? Yes. Is it an efficient routine for them? Yes. Will this change once they get leaner? Yes. Is fat loss different to weight loss? Yes.

I agree with the OP in one way though. There are too many people spitting out bland platitudes (such as I did above without bearing in mind the individual's pyshiological and psychological needs. This comes from both sides of the "to eat or not to eat" argument.

I would say in general though, that unless the person is obese, it is a better idea to eat more.

Oh, and Lyle does a good job on the issue here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/setting-the-deficit-small-moderate-or-large.html

mambagirl

You put in that you'd plan to exercise 6 days a week, but are sedentary. Therefore those 1300 calories are NET calories (you eat back exercise calories to maintain the correct deficit)

Helloitsdan's calculation was probably total calories, inclusive of all your activity. If you worked out 6x a week, and still ate just 1300 that would be far too little!

MFP says I would maintain on around 2000 net. I can actually lose on that.
For my cut, I eat a TOTAL (inclusive of exercise) of 2500 a day and lose fairly easily. This was trial and error.

You CAN still be sedentary if you workout 6 days a week.I'm just going to use the example that I have with my Fitbit.I set MFP to sedentary and its linked to Fitbit. My numbers here will STAY sedentary until I walk about 2 miles during the day..or around 5,500 steps(it adds exercise calories after that).If I worked from home and my ONLY activity was walking 30 minutes I would still be considered sedentary because I did not move often enough during my day except for the 30 minutes...If that 30 minutes was vigorous,then it might be different..I'm not sure.I had the same experience when I wore the Body Media armband.

ladyraven68

You are not different . (apart from the special snowflakes obviously)

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

SugarBoomBoom

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.

The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.

All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.

Qskim

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.

The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.

All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.

Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.

macaya5

omg this thread made me hungry. gonna go eat breakfast.

jesz124

To add - I find it odd that you said you told Helloitsdan about you wanting to lose 1.5lbs...because he doesn't go by weekly loss..he goes by the information provided on the tool calculations - which you can do yourself. He gives you the links to the tool and a walk through. Did you figure out the #s with this tool? No, because if you did, you'd see that it gives you your TDEE based on eating below your BMR, but under your TDEE at the appropriate activity level.

ETA: One more thing - did you even try this at all or did you just get your numbers and decide to throw a tantrum because you don't like change? Or maybe it offended you that maybe you were doing something incorrectly?

I looked at your diary..aside from today, you last logged around 12/27. And a few days from what I saw before 12/27 ranged from 872-1600 calories.

Are you even reading what I am posting? I tried it his way for a month. He didn't say a 1.5 lb/wk loss, that was MY goal, he told me to eat around 2100, and I gained about ten pounds before I tossed it overboard. By thanksgiving I was back to -30 lbs from where I started.

I didn't log because I wanted to take a break from it while I was sick and eating nothing for a few days, then eating sporadically because of how I felt, and today I logged what I ate because I wanted to.

And yeah, on average I was eating anywhere between those two numbers. 1600 were days where I would lift heavy and get ravenous afterwards. 1000 were days where I felt exceptionally motivated to lose.

Have you ever considered that the reason you gained weight when you upped your calories is because you have basically been under feeding your body for an extended period and when it was fed properly it thought 'Yay food, I'm hanging onto every calorie now in case he starves me like before!!'.

Thus being the problem with very low cals, when you try eating 'normally' again you have no where to go.

jesz124

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.

The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.

All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.

Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.

Be sure to shut the door when you leave please....

RosscoBoscko

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.

The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.

All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.

Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.

Whilst I agree about some of the posts recently, I don't see why it should make either of you leave mfp whatever the content of the posts are. Just don't go on the message boards. No point sabotaging yourself by quitting mfp completely.

MrsSWW

Well, that made for interesting reading! Nothing like berating someone else's methods before trying to shove your own down our throats.

I've done 1,200 calories and lost weight, but now I'm on 2,000-2,500 calories and still losing weight. Which is the right way?

All I can say is that on 1,200 I lost some sanity too, now I think research into THAT would be useful... OP, do you have any links for the loss of weight AND sanity on 1,200?? :huh:

SugarBoomBoom

Thanks OP,I often wondered why so many on MFP were basically saying that MFP sucks and to follow Scooby or whomever.I believe that we are all different and no one thing will work for everyone.MY body is carb sensitive,so as much as I'd like to think and WISH that I can eat 200 grams of carbs a day..my scale says No NO!

That other plan may work for some,but I really don't understand why they are on THIS site basically promoting something else.Some of us are new to learning about Diets and exercise so I can see how it could get frustrating and Confusing for folks.

I eat from 1100-2000 calories per day..It just depends on how I feel,but I DO listen to my body.I'm Not going to eat more just to meet a certain number,and my body has 'food' in my fat reserves,i wont be going into 'starvation mode' anytime soon.

Best of luck to you!!!!

I agree. Everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. What works for some, might not work for all. I am carb sensitive too. If I eat too much I will get fat. I have set my calories to a maximum of 1500 and am trying to eat less carb. I have a STRONG family history of Type 2 diabetes and PCOS. I am also a dietary vegan and have been for nearly 28 years. Yet I am still fat - because of carbs. I don't care if people disagree with how many calories I am eating or my dietary preferences.

The OP has a right to disagree with helloitsdan. I think I take issue with his approach though - a PM to helloitsdan might have been more appropriate. Doing it in the way he has done will only provoke anger from followers of EM2LW and helloitsdan.

All of this vitriol is very unpleasant and part of the reason why I am again considering leaving MFP. Why not just live and let live guys? This is supposed to be fun. Jheeeze.

Absolutely agree..the site has gone to s*it because of a few..for the first time since I've been on here I'm considering dumping it altogether. Feel sorry for those who start. Even respected posters don't bother anymore.

Whilst I agree about some of the posts recently, I don't see why it should make either of you leave mfp whatever the content of the posts are. Just don't go on the message boards. No point sabotaging yourself by quitting mfp completely.

(Sigh) .......Because it is so nasty and depressing. Trying to lose weight is a struggle as it is. I do try to avoid the message boards, but sometimes something catches your eye, and you think it might be something interesting and insightful, you click on it and hey presto yet another slanging match ...... :frown:

People use the anonymity of the internet to say things that they would probably never dream of saying to each other face to face. One would hope that a weight loss forum would be to offer acceptance and support. All of this ^^^^^^^^ just does not help.