Fat-Shaming May Curb Obesity?

Acg67

Yes, if they didn't do so much crack it might not be so bad, the body can recover can't it?. But I'm pretty sure crack does not work that way and you don't have a choice.
Totally a troll-thought. Unrelated. Lol.

hah! Thanks, that was funny. And makes the point I'm trying to get at. Many (probably most) obese people are dealing with an addiction to starchy carbs.

And to the OP who keeps suggesting that all you need is a cal deficit and some cardio, here's a really quick primer on how insulin, carbs and fat actually work in your body. Body turns the carbs into glucose immediately, converts the fats into tri-glycerides and immediately deposits them in fat cells to use later. When your glucose drops, your body decides its hungry and demands energy. It begins producing insulin, anticipating the carbs you are going to put in your body and the need to process the glucose and store the fat. As you eat, it produces more insulin. Your blood sugar spikes, you feel good and full. The fat is stored as tri-glycerides, very difficult to get back out of your fat cells and use later on. Your blood sugar crashes as the glucose is burned up. Your body realizes your brain may be deprived of energy, signals hunger, cycle starts again.

Over time, your body becomes resistant to insulin. It takes more insulin to achieve the same thing as described above. Your glucose spike/crash happens faster because your body has to produce more and more insulin to achieve the same metabolic outcome. More and more fat is stored as tri-glycerides. This happens even as you are eating at a deficit. The only solution is to reduce the carbs/sugars. Since almost all packaged food available in the store is processed with sugars, this just makes the situation worse.

Low fat foods are made tasty by adding .... sugar and carbs. What do doctors advise us to eat to lose weight? The very foods that will cause our glucose spike and crash.

This is very similar to the way that cocaine works in the brain and causes addiction. A crack addict cannot simply cut back on the crack a little and get better. Nor can an obese, insulin resistant person simply cut back on the food a little and get better.

Start here for the evidence: http://www.garytaubes.com/

Hmmm Taubes, not sure if srs

stumblinthrulife

Really not a victim
"Here, eat this, it tastes great. I promise it's not bad for you."
"Oh ok. Hey you're right, this is great." <eats badly for years and gets obese>
"You *kitten*! You never told me it would make me like this. Hand me another piece of pie." <Continues to eat badly. Dies>

Overeating makes you fat, not some individual food

I've edited the post, just for you.

weird_me2

How about more nutritional education in our schools, so children grow up learning that food is for feeding their bodies not thier moods.
Negative reinforcement does not work. I see the appeal though. It is the easy way to deal with a problem. It is much harder to be empathetic, a good listener and truely encouraging.
Let's not be lazy. Sincere interest in people is worth the effort.

I agree with you and actually think that the author of the original article in question thinks along the same lines as you. Everyone just needs to read the dang article that inspired the attention grabbing headline of the article mentioned. This whole debate started because a news article decided to go for attention grabbing instead of unbiased presenting of the paper in question. Instead of people having a good debate about how great it would be to gently nudge our society to empower people who believe themselves to be victims, most people are going on and on about the "victims" and helping maintain the victim mentality and defending the idea of remaining ignorant of reality.

bcattoes

How about more nutritional education in our schools, so children grow up learning that food is for feeding their bodies not thier moods.
Negative reinforcement does not work. I see the appeal though. It is the easy way to deal with a problem. It is much harder to be empathetic, a good listener and truely encouraging.
Let's not be lazy. Sincere interest in people is worth the effort.

Education in school is a tricky thing these days. In American public schools they'd teach the USDA food plate. Would every parent be okay with that?

cathrynfay

I think that "fat shaming" makes people feel worthless and hated. I think that weight loss can happen successfully when people feel valued and have self-worth. Teaching healthy habits from a young age is effective, but insulting those who are already overweight is just rude and hurtful.

serenapitala

Seems unlikely to me. People who are obese (myself included) often eat their feelings. So, shame would make them eat more. In addition, if I were working as hard as I have been to lose weight and constantly felt shamed about my weight, in my early stages I probably would have given up. Lots of people already publicly shame obese people. Rude comments and looks in public are not uncommon for the obese.
I've heard this argument before. I don't know how it would affect everyone, but more shame on top of the current norm would not have helped me.
Just my opinion

cubbies77

And in my case, I have insulin resistance. I was always hungry, as in stomach growling in pain levels of hunger, no matter how much I ate.

Cubbies, that's awesome that you got it figured out. It is likely that most obese people are insulin resistant. Not only do we get hungry every couple of hours, but we crave the foods that contribute to insulin resistance, obesity, blood sugar spikes and crashes, etc. It is a horrific addiction that people who've never experienced it cannot understand. Shaming makes you depressed and unhappy, which contributes to the addictive behavior.

Side note, the increase of clinical obesity in this country coincides with the rise of the idea that salt and fat and beef/pork/etc is bad for you and wheat and corn are good for you. You can map the lines on a chart and see it clear as day. just saying.

I don't know that I agree that most obese people are probably insulin resistant, and if they are, then I don't agree that it caused the obesity. We (the obese and not obese) tend to crave junk when we put junk in. Poor eating habits and a habit of eating for reasons other than hunger tends to lead to obesity. Eating highly processed junk foods with no real staying power can cause you to feel hungry often, which means you eat more than you need to, which can lead to weight gain as well as insulin control issues.

As for the side note, the rise of clinical obesity in this country coincides with many things, but the coincidence does not mean it caused it. I honestly think that the rise of entitlement and the decline of personal responsibility has coincided greatly with the rise of obesity and the economic problems in America, but most people don't want to hear that.

In my case, the insulin resistance was a side effect of PCOS. I went to my doctor with symptoms when I was 19. I still weighed about 165 pounds. He put me on high-estrogen BCP to "fix it", and bam - I started gaining about 30 pounds per MONTH. Uggggh. Every time I went to a new doctor, they just assumed I was some random fatty who survived on Cheetos and Sprite. I was actually still eating around 2000 calories per day and walking all the time.

My current doctor said the BCP with high estrogen was the worst thing that doctor could have done for me. When he explained what IR is, it all made sense. I was eating 2000 calories of the wrong foods and making it even worse. I just wish we'd figured it out then instead of now. I could have been happy during my 20s and early 30s instead of suicidal.

Oh well.

Anyway, IR can sometimes form on its own, but in some cases, it's a by-product (not the right word - co-morbidity maybe? side effect? something...) of PCOS.

blues4miles

Everyone else has already said quite well why shaming doesn't work (and is in fact counter-productive). Does shaming make it EASIER for people to be healthier? No. What would make it easier that society could actually do?

-Stop subsidizing corn and milk as much, start subsidizing fruits and vegetables a little more (or you know, subsidize nothing)
-Provide more public parks where people live and work. More outdoor spaces where people can play/run/walk workout and be SAFE. A lot of us have limited access to safe places to be outside.
-More gym/indoor exercise availability for more people. I am lucky that I work at a big company that has several gyms and lockers/showers. More places should do and provide this, maybe communities can provide to their communities etc. (church gyms? I don't know, just a thought)
-Better education in schools and for the public in general as to what is "healthy". Old cereal commercials when I was a kid used to say "part of a healthy breakfast" i notice they don't say that anymore. But a lot of crazy high calorie foods still call themselves "healthy" these days and that doesn't help.
-Healthier foods for kids in school
-Bring back longer physical education in school. They are cutting this and recess in so many places, kids need MORE time to play, not less. We adults on here learned this the hard way. As soon as you start to "schedule" in gym time, it's something you want to keep doing. So we need to schedule in play time for kids.
-More access to sports for kids. Kids and parents are overscheduled, anything we can do to make it easier is great. Even if the kid isn't good enough to make the basketball team, maybe there's still a casual basketball thing the kid can do instead.
-Teachers/counselors need to encourage kids to be healthy not shame them. I was not overweight in high school, but I sure thought I was fat. And I couldn't run worth a darn and was the slowest kid (who didn't have a legit health problem). P.E. teachers just shamed me and chewed me out. What if one of them had taken me aside and taught me how to run? Someone the other day just posted a link to the Henry Rollins article The Iron (http://baye.com/the-iron-by-henry-rollins/) where a high school counselor taught him how to lift. We all know if you want to deadlift your own weight or 2x your own weight or whatever you don't just start at that weight and keep failing. You need to get there via progression. Same is true for running. Same is true for being healthy. Imagine if PE teachers took aside fat kids, built some confidence in them, and taught them little by little how to get stronger, be faster, etc.

Focus should be on promoting healthy behaviors. Not shaming.

If we want to shame people I vote we shame...
-The a-hole drivers who look perturbed that they actually have to come to a complete stop at the stop sign so I can run by them at the intersection (sorry I ruined your day)
-The a-hole drivers who speed up when they see me running, or see someone else cycling

Nataliaho

The focus should be in encouraging healthy behaviours in all people... not just the people who look fat. This particularly applies to educating young people. Not all fat adults were fat kids... I have read a million threads on here of people who didn't get fat until they were in the 20s or older. ALL of those kids need to learn good behaviours.

RonnieLodge

Well, one of the arguments was that public shaming of smokers worked to get people to quit smoking.

Some people are genetically predisposed to obesity. Medical issues. Hormonal problems. No one is predisposed to smoking.

Not that that is an excuse to be obese, but it's also very easy for a slender person to make this assumption.

Well, that AND various governments in the UK, Europe, NZ and other places bringing in legislation banning it from almost everywhere and raising the taxes on it.

I often wonder once they have got all of these places smoke free, what will the nanny state attack next?
What will be the leading cause of death and strain on the health systems that the public must be encouraged to stop doing?

It will be the obese. In some countries obesity is already the leading cause of early death - ahead of smoking.

As for some people being genetically predisposed to obesity - the REAL number of those people globally is very, very small - for most it is just an excuse to eat too much and move too little.

dmh0204

Well, one of the arguments was that public shaming of smokers worked to get people to quit smoking.

Some people are genetically predisposed to obesity. Medical issues. Hormonal problems. No one is predisposed to smoking.

Not that that is an excuse to be obese, but it's also very easy for a slender person to make this assumption.

Actually, I think you can be predisposed to smoking. It's like any other addiction. Some people are more likely to have addictions (to anything--food, alcohol, smoking) than others. And it runs in families.

I wonder if shaming shamers would work.

mfpcopine

It is an interesting theory. I grew up in the 60's and 70's. Fat people were shamed much more than today back then. There were far fewer fat people. But I'm not sure that shaming was the reason. But the author is correct that shaming smokers did cause a dramatic drop in the number of smokers.

And for those talking of bullying, shaming and bullying are the same thing.

I think shaming was part of the reason, along with the ordinary person being more active.

Negative reinforcement works. Why does it have to cross over the line to shaming? And what is controversial about the idea that if people are too self-accepting they won't change? Who really believes that everything can be in balance and people can have 100% self-esteem?

Discomfort is part of life and often an unavoidable aspect of attaining a goal.

mfpcopine

Well, one of the arguments was that public shaming of smokers worked to get people to quit smoking.

Some people are genetically predisposed to obesity. Medical issues. Hormonal problems. No one is predisposed to smoking.

Not that that is an excuse to be obese, but it's also very easy for a slender person to make this assumption.

Actually, I think you can be predisposed to smoking. It's like any other addiction. Some people are more likely to have addictions (to anything--food, alcohol, smoking) than others. And it runs in families.

I wonder if shaming shamers would work.

What do you if you have any sense if a predisposition runs in your family? You don't smoke.

Your reaction if your family has a history of alcoholism? You don't drink, or you monitor yourself very carefully.


If you actually have a predisposition to weight gain you have to do whatever it takes to stay a normal weight. It's harder than giving up smoking because we have to eat, but it can be done.

I've seen morbidly obese parents with their morbidly obese children (all of them, grossly overweight, not just one chubby kid). I judge the parents. They have an obligation to teach their kids better.

BinaryPulsar

I don't see how fat shaming would work or be a good thing.

If you fat shame, then you will also end up with skinny teenagers that are afraid of being fat and think they are fat. When they hear the fat shaming, they apply it to themselves because they think their thighs are too big (and their thighs are 19 inches and they have six pack abs).

Fat shaming could lead to other kinds of back lash. When one group is shamed there can also be some reactions of shaming someone else (in terms of body shaming). How is that productive to an overall healthy society? Just to note that if we become aware that we have also done this ourselves we can choose to change it if we want.

And think about it this way...What if a child is being abused at home and they are also overweight, do you think fat shaming them is going to help them? It's way too simplistic and does not take the full spectrum of reality into consideration.

What about people that are extremely ill, and take a medication and they blow up with swelling and people just assume they are fat and eat a lot. Yes, it happens. As do many other circumstances. A women that just had a baby is another.

The list is endless, but these are just a few examples.

Sometimes there is an oddball bio-ethicist that says weird things and gets the media to write an article about it. When it is obvious the bio-ethicist is racist it gets rejected a lot sooner, for example.

We can use our brains to think it through with logic about how reality actually works and how people actually work. Sure there is a middle ground somewhere, but it does not involve shaming people's bodies.

I have never been overweight, so I can't comment on that experience. It has never been my personal experience.

Trechechus

I can't stand bullying, especially watching someone be bullied. I'd be rampaging on other peoples' behalves.

dmh0204

Well, one of the arguments was that public shaming of smokers worked to get people to quit smoking.

Some people are genetically predisposed to obesity. Medical issues. Hormonal problems. No one is predisposed to smoking.

Not that that is an excuse to be obese, but it's also very easy for a slender person to make this assumption.

Actually, I think you can be predisposed to smoking. It's like any other addiction. Some people are more likely to have addictions (to anything--food, alcohol, smoking) than others. And it runs in families.

I wonder if shaming shamers would work.

What do you if you have any sense if a predisposition runs in your family? You don't smoke.

Your reaction if your family has a history of alcoholism. You don't drink, or you monitor yourself very carefully.


If you actually have a predisposition to weight gain you have to do whatever it takes to stay a normal weight. It's harder than giving up smoking because we have to eat, but it can be done.

I've seen morbidly obese parents with their morbidly obese children (all of them, grossly overweight, not just one chubby kid). I judge the parents. They have an obligation to teach their kids better.

I think people who have families who smoke are a lot like people whose families are overweight. You are accustomed to smoking/overeating before you know what's good for you. And unless you can get away from your family, you are around smoking and smokers all the time, just like overeaters are around food all the time. I don't think it's impossible not to smoke or over eat in those situations. But by the time you should know better than to do what you are doing, it's already a habit because it's what you grew up with.

lachesissss

I can't stand bullying, especially watching someone be bullied. I'd be rampaging on other peoples' behalves.

This. And truthfully fat shaming won't cure obesity, I find this an absurd notion. I think that social ostracism is never an answer.

mfpcopine

Fat shaming would lead to other kinds of back lash. Whenever one person is shamed they tend to react by shaming someone else.

I don't know why you think that. If someone is, say, discriminated against, another bad behavior, it doesn't follow that they will discriminate against other people. In fact, they may be more sensitive about the problem of discrimination.

babyskunkles

Whether its considered a disease or a choice, it's not the general public's business to be shaming anyone. People that smoke, drink and do drugs can hide their issues, not really a choice for fat people. We actually "wear" shame. Our fat bodies are just like drug addicts or alcoholics wearing t-****s everyday that point out their issue.

BinaryPulsar

Fat shaming would lead to other kinds of back lash. Whenever one person is shamed they tend to react by shaming someone else.

I don't know why you think that. If someone is, say, discriminated against, another bad behavior, it doesn't follow that they will discriminate against other people. In fact, they may be more sensitive about the problem of discrimination.

You are right about that. I didn't mean on an individual level. Just that some people would (not everyone). I've seen it in the forums a lot since joining. And I also try to be aware if I do it without realizing it. But, absolutely most people will respond by being more aware and empathic. I see how what I said implied something different then what I meant to say. I just tried editing it to be more what I meant. And I only meant this about body shaming.