Fat-Shaming May Curb Obesity?
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I think a much more effective idea is to make it harder to get health care/welfare if you are obese.
Oh yeah. That's a GREAT idea.
Please tell me this was sarcasm. If not, then you have to draw the line at all sorts of other behaviors. What about people who drink, smoke, and engage in other reckless behaviors? Many people do all kinds of things that directly affect their health. You're riding a slippery slope there.0 -
Yeah, this is a "great" idea - hear the sarcasm? I'm sorry, but I grew up my whole life bullied, tormented, abused and psychically harmed because I was big.
If i heard one day that they decided to "shame the fat away" as a younger person... sadly I would have to say I wouldn't be sitting here typing this out for everyone to read. Life was living hell and if they suddenly gave them permission to continue because it was "to better me" I wouldn't have been able to survive that.
Yes the world has become to PC in many things, but this is one of the stupidest ideas anyone tried to justify.0 -
I don't believe in the concept of "bioethicists." Sounds like a job someone made up because they didn't want to get a real job.
But beyond that, shaming is effective in a lot of cultures at preventing various types of social disorder. East Asian countries, for example, don't spend much on welfare because the cultural shaming of people who don't work has been such an effective method of keeping them employed. Until fairly recently in the US, fathering children out of wedlock, a woman becoming pregnant outside of marriage, and even living together before marriage were such shameful behaviors that people went to great lengths to prevent them (or to keep them a secret when they happened). These days, society as a whole doesn't bat an eye at those sorts of things, and many studies have been conducted regarding the social problems that have resulted from the abundance of fatherless children, teenage pregnancies, an ever increasing divorce rate, etc.
If the primary objection to fat shaming is that it hurts people's feelings, what I want to know is why are the feelings of one obese person more important than the feelings of all the people who will be affected by that person's obesity? I'm not advocating being cruel for the sake of cruelty. I'm suggesting that maybe we aren't doing obese people or ourselves any favors by tip-toeing around their obesity and pretending it's okay. It is not okay. And if you google "fat acceptance," you will see just how twisted a perception of their bodies a lot of obese people have. You can call it self-esteem; I'll call it willful ignorance.0 -
How about instead of wasting time fat-shaming people, we make more efforts to make JUNK FOOD and FAST FOOD cost more than fresh fruits & veggies. It's expensive to lose weight and if you don't have the spare income to afford the healthier stuff, then it becomes harder to lose weight and keep the weight off, without trying some fad-diet idea. OR make weight loss programs cheaper--like Weight Watchers and Quick Weight Loss Ctrs... Or even gym memberships (I had to give up mine after 5 years bc I don't have the spare income, but I still make due with home videos & the small gym in my apt complex). I think people probably need more EDUCATION versus shamming people.0
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Yeah, this is a "great" idea - hear the sarcasm? I'm sorry, but I grew up my whole life bullied, tormented, abused and psychically harmed because I was big.
If i heard one day that they decided to "shame the fat away" as a younger person... sadly I would have to say I wouldn't be sitting here typing this out for everyone to read. Life was living hell and if they suddenly gave them permission to continue because it was "to better me" I wouldn't have been able to survive that.
Yes the world has become to PC in many things, but this is one of the stupidest ideas anyone tried to justify.
I feel your pain I was close to not being here many times because I didn't want to go to school and deal with the everyday torture that a lot of people just don't understand, they don't know what that does to a person physically and mentally for the rest of there life0 -
I'd like to see Jillian Michael's kick his sanctimonius butt to the curb. THAT would be the type of shaming I could agree with. Convincing people that they are fantastic, strong individuals who deserve to be the best they can be is what works. That is why this site works.0
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How about instead of wasting time fat-shaming people, we make more efforts to make JUNK FOOD and FAST FOOD cost more than fresh fruits & veggies. It's expensive to lose weight and if you don't have the spare income to afford the healthier stuff, then it becomes harder to lose weight and keep the weight off, without trying some fad-diet idea. OR make weight loss programs cheaper--like Weight Watchers and Quick Weight Loss Ctrs... Or even gym memberships (I had to give up mine after 5 years bc I don't have the spare income, but I still make due with home videos & the small gym in my apt complex). I think people probably need more EDUCATION versus shamming people.
TOTALLY AGREE THIS WOULD BE A WONDERFUL THING FOR SOOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE0 -
Fat shaming would be preferable to the nonsense that is the fat acceptance movement0
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If the primary objection to fat shaming is that it hurts people's feelings, what I want to know is why are the feelings of one obese person more important than the feelings of all the people who will be affected by that person's obesity?
My friends' obesity doesn't affect my feelings one bit, so I'm not sure what you mean by this? (Not attacking, just curious.) Do you mean something more like my boyfriend being worried about my health and that I should take his concern into consideration? Something like that? I'm just trying to follow what you're saying.0 -
WELL SAID!!! A MUST READ!!I don't believe in the concept of "bioethicists." Sounds like a job someone made up because they didn't want to get a real job.
But beyond that, shaming is effective in a lot of cultures at preventing various types of social disorder. East Asian countries, for example, don't spend much on welfare because the cultural shaming of people who don't work has been such an effective method of keeping them employed. Until fairly recently in the US, fathering children out of wedlock, a woman becoming pregnant outside of marriage, and even living together before marriage were such shameful behaviors that people went to great lengths to prevent them (or to keep them a secret when they happened). These days, society as a whole doesn't bat an eye at those sorts of things, and many studies have been conducted regarding the social problems that have resulted from the abundance of fatherless children, teenage pregnancies, an ever increasing divorce rate, etc.
If the primary objection to fat shaming is that it hurts people's feelings, what I want to know is why are the feelings of one obese person more important than the feelings of all the people who will be affected by that person's obesity? I'm not advocating being cruel for the sake of cruelty. I'm suggesting that maybe we aren't doing obese people or ourselves any favors by tip-toeing around their obesity and pretending it's okay. It is not okay. And if you google "fat acceptance," you will see just how twisted a perception of their bodies a lot of obese people have. You can call it self-esteem; I'll call it willful ignorance.0 -
So I let my initial emotional reaction pass and read the actual paper in the Hastings Report. Daniel Callahan, IMO, cares deeply about the obesity epidemic, especially with regard to children, and change is not happening fast enough for him. He went into social scientist panic mode and wrote it down.
He...should probably lay low for a while.
You were right after I my initial visceral remark I had to go back and read the article. He does say that smoking stigmatization helped decrease the rate of smokers, and mentions that smoking is not seen as a character flaw.
Where obesity is seen as a character flaw, and who can abstain from eating? He mentions that these stigmatizations might be more effective:
•If you are overweight or obese, are you pleased with the way you look?
•Are you happy that your added weight has made many ordinary activities, such as walking up a long fight of stairs, harder?
•Would you prefer to lessen your risk of heart disease and diabetes?
•Are you aware that, once you gain a signifcant amount of weight, your chances of taking that weight back off and keeping it off are poor?
•Are you pleased when your obese children are called “fatty” or otherwise teased at school?
•Fair or not, do you know that many people look down upon those excessively overweight or obese, often in fact discriminating against them and making fun of them or calling them lazy and lacking in self-control?
The problem with this is humans are stupid they dont know that this is a behavioral technique and should only be practiced by trained professionals. Look at the title of the original article of this post: Fat-Shaming may cure obesity.
Now if I'm one of those big bullies floating that around that tells me I have carte blanche to tell every heavy person I see what a disgusting piece of pig doodoo they are and it gives me an out to say why I'm helping that fat person.
This is counterproductive. I hate the way news twists things.
Read the original article it is long...scroll down to the stigmatization part if you dont have time. I still dont agree with him, but now understand where the rationaliztion of the article was developed.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.114/full0 -
You cannot make someone lose weight no matter how hard you try. My friends and family tried to get me to lose weight for years and I never did. I had to make the choice myself to get off my butt and do something about my weight. It has to come from within or it will not happen. Once you take the step to become healthier then it becomes a matter of preference as to what will help motivate you to keep going. Some people like rewards and some people like tough love, but every person is different. Shaming is NOT the answer though and will only lead to more obesity IMO.
Well said.0 -
Yes, cuz we don't have enough of bullying, hatred, meanness, spite, disrespect in the world yet...........0
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oh ya lets bully people into loosing weight.. that will solve everything... I mean look at how good it works in schools.
Exactly! Nuff Said0 -
Fat shaming would be preferable to the nonsense that is the fat acceptance movement
Read the article dont fall into the bully mentality0 -
Considering there are more factors that contribute to obesity than just pure eating too much and being sedentary (though these are obviously huge contributing factors), shame is pointless and counterproductive. Awareness and education are far more productive. We shouldn't placate the obese either. We should not deny that being obese is unhealthy but it can be addressed in a much more compassionate way. Organizations like the Obesity Action Coalition and great examples of this mentality. I was technically "super morbidly obese" at my heaviest weight and those who were honest yet compassionate with me were the ones who made the most impact in my decision to finally get help and lose the weight. Now when I see obese people all I want to do is run up to them and tell them I know how they feel and there is a way out, it's not easy but there is a way.0
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A bioethicist thinks that since being nice to obese people isn't helping, maybe a bit of shaming might do the trick. (That's a very concise summary, though)
This makes me want to egg his house and TP his yard. :huh:0 -
The world is way too sensitive these days.
AGREED!!! You have to be nice, politically correct, blah blah blah -- world is VERY sensitive!
There is difference between that and being mean, this would fall under the mean category.0 -
I understand the THEORY..
Aside from that, NO! ridiculing someone to make them feel WORSE about themselves is not going to help anything. Like those whomention bullying... this concept encourages bullying and that is completely wrong.
I was tipping severly obese when I started my change, I was as low emotionally as I had ever been. Someone telling me how fat I was and riduculing me to make me feel worse would probably have made me feel suicidal.
HOWEVER, I CAN say beyond a doubt that my former Dr. congratulated me: "Congratulations! In two years time you have managed to gain 25 lbs, throw your bloodwork completely out of whack, managed to become borderline diabetic and racing to being diabetic, and you are likely to win the race you have going to have a heart attack. Don't you feel fabulous?" NOW you see why the term FORMER was used to refer to him. When I left his office I wanted to drive into the nearest McDonald's and order whatever was required to put myself in a food induced coma.
7 days later I had photos taken with my kids for their Jr. Prom... THOSE made me feel terrible about how I looked and made me realize that my doctor was an *kitten* BUT I needed to change. On the 8th day I did not rest... instead I went to the Gym and kicked my own *kitten*... been going strong since.
Perspective is what it boils down to.0 -
If the primary objection to fat shaming is that it hurts people's feelings, what I want to know is why are the feelings of one obese person more important than the feelings of all the people who will be affected by that person's obesity? I'm not advocating being cruel for the sake of cruelty. I'm suggesting that maybe we aren't doing obese people or ourselves any favors by tip-toeing around their obesity and pretending it's okay. It is not okay. And if you google "fat acceptance," you will see just how twisted a perception of their bodies a lot of obese people have. You can call it self-esteem; I'll call it willful ignorance.
Then according to your logic, the loss of one is better for the whole... apparently you never truly suffered at the hands of others because you were overweight?
Plus not every "fat" person acceptes their size - i HATED it. I LOATHED it. I did try my hardest as a CHILD to not be big, tried no eating, tried playing more, every diet my mother & doctors told me to try (then had to go home and suffer through what my mother thought it meant) ....I did everything I could because I didn't like the daily beatings at school, the kids stealing my bagged lunch because "I was fat enough, you can stand to not eat", to walking home from school because no one would let the fattie sit next to them on the bus (7-10 miles one way).
Of having my clothing destroyed at school, of having my glasses broken, of going home and bandaging myself before my parents got home so they wouldn't see the bruises and blood they left on me.
Yes, some to give in and accept what they are.... but some of us struggled and barely survived to adulthood and hated every damn second of it. I wanted to DIE for years as a child because nothing I did helped and EVERYONE thought I was fair game to abuse.
So yes, sacrifice the one for the good of the many.... just hope it's not your child, sibling, parent, spouse, etc...0 -
Did shaming really work on smokers as suggested, do we not have people still standing outside to smoke? Alienating an entire group of people because their lifestyle is viewed as wrong or unhealthy is not the way to go. What sub group of the population is next?0
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When people comment on my weight it only makes me want to rage-eat. This wouldn't help me at all.
^^ This!0 -
What an *kitten*-h-le!!!0
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When people comment on my weight it only makes me want to rage-eat. This wouldn't help me at all.
^ this! I was body shamed starting at a young age before i was even over weight. It made me feel worthless and i found myself binge eating in response.
Edited to say, the last time i was body shamed was in a gym working my *kitten* off. My brother in law was the one shaming me. I didnt step foot in a gym for a whole year after that.
Educational research shows that using shame as a motivator for changes in student behavior is counter-productive. Rather than decreasing the behavior that produced the shame, people form a fixed mindset, decide they're unable to change, and engage in that behavior more. This has proven true from early childhood through graduate school. I can't imagine things suddenly changing when the cause for the shame suddenly becomes weight.
That's not to say accommodating obesity is necessarily helpful either. But if you want to actually change people's behaviors, shame isn't going to help.0 -
Isn't this a bit like bullying smokers? People still smoke... :huh:0
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Seems like a great way of drumming up business.
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Weight Loss Therapists
AKA the bioethicist is a pillock. What next? Tell the clinically depressed that they are pathetic and should pull themselves together/man the **** up?0 -
Are they not criticized enough already, particularly women?0
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I think a much more effective idea is to make it harder to get health care/welfare if you are obese.
Oh yeah. That's a GREAT idea.
Please tell me this was sarcasm. If not, then you have to draw the line at all sorts of other behaviors. What about people who drink, smoke, and engage in other reckless behaviors? Many people do all kinds of things that directly affect their health. You're riding a slippery slope there.
Well, it'll never happen, so yeah it was sarcasm but If we're talking free public health care though, I would support restrictions on all types of "reckless behaviors".0 -
without having actually read the article... Uh... people have been fat shaming for YEARS and yet... the obesity epidemic has been on the rise...0
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I'm not even reading it. I can just imagine. It is putting blame in the individual and no one else is taking any blame. Look at the high processed foods that grow up eating. What about people on welfare who can only afford cans of soup, kraft dinner, etc. I think as a society we should all be looking to curb obesity. People gain weight for all kinds of reasons: depression, child birth, medications, poor diet, physical limitations. I am not trying to make excuses for people, but shaming is not a good way to go about anything. Encouragement and support? Sure. People need to feel self-determined and motivated. People need to want this change for themselves, not because they are bullied into it.
And as someone who has studied psychology, statistics, and research methodology... I bet I could rip that article/study apart in minutes. I just cannot be bothered.
Let's keep this a supportive place and leave senseless crap out of it.0
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