Being overweight is good? Wait, what?

jenifr818

I heard on the radio that apparently a study had come out saying overweight people live longer. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/01/02/168437030/research-a-little-extra-fat-may-help-you-live-longer

I've also been seeing quite a few people on facebook posting things like "Don't tell me I'm fat, that's "fat shaming" me!" and things like "if size 2 is beautiful, my size 22 must be divine!" and guys saying they will only date overweight and obese women.

I'm not saying that everyone has to be skinny. I understand some people have higher BMI than is considered "normal" due to being muscular. I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to FAT overweight. When did it become a good thing to be at a higher risk of all sorts of diseases, including diabetes and fun stuff like that? Is this a sign of the whole "special snowflake" generation that refuses to be told they are wrong about anything? Is it that our perception of what is healthy is changing?

I don't know about you, but I know there was a point when I finally said "omg enough is enough". I'm nowhere close to where I need to be, but I'm miles ahead of where I was. I try not to judge, and I'm all for being full of self-esteem and liking your body, but should self-esteem come at a price of health when your body is just genuinely too big?

If this post made any sense, let me know your thoughts. If I just rambled nonsensically, well, still let me know your thoughts!

nsblue

i can only speak from once a super morbidly obese perspective...... IMO when people say obese/overweight is fine...it is a settling of ones mind because of failed attempts....so u convince yourself u will remain healthy where u are at....did it myself...its a crock a chit...lies u tell yourself.

jenifr818

In other words "I don't think I can do it, so I give up and will just say I'm awesome as I am, and anyone who argues with me is just being hateful"

Yeah ... sad statement, but makes sense

Btw ... wow ... that's some amazing weight loss! Congrats!

concordancia

The report specifically says that this does not apply to severely obese people.

The news report also includes the fact that studies usually don't account for people who are at low weight due to illness.

It is just saying that we need to be more flexible interpreting health in relation to BMI.

62texan

That may be what the report says, but several obese people i know have used it to justify their obesity.

victoriannsays

"If you fall and you fall on vulnerable bone, like the hip, having a little extra fat there might protect you from hip fracture," Hymsfield says.


^ is this guy for real...

-_-

EatClean_WashUrNuts

If you read everything and believe it, you apparently never read about the Mayan Calendar.

quirkytizzy

I've also been seeing quite a few people on facebook posting things like "Don't tell me I'm fat, that's "fat shaming" me!" and things like "if size 2 is beautiful, my size 22 must be divine!" and guys saying they will only date overweight and obese women.

I don't call people fat - it's rude. Don't care what I'm trying to do with MY body, it's rude to negatively comment on someone else's. Don't give a rat's *kitten* if someone says they feel prettier if they are overweight or that they prefer overweight partners. Their body, their preferences - ain't none of my business.

BByer

Having a little extra body fat is okay, but being 30%+ body fat isn't healthy. You are going to have markers of metabolic syndrome, such as insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is correlated with many common diseases and conditions.

emcdonie

I typed the below in response to a a friend posting a link about the proverbial "fat shaming". Forgivme me I am copying so I don't have to retype....


"I think shaming would do little good and likely make it worse. I do think the problem should not be coddled or ignored. I don't think forcing any new regulations on the industries will do anything. They are just responding to demand. More regulations will help NOTHING. They give us what we ask for. What will help is being truthful about ourselves. Admitting when we have a problem. Not blaming it on our body, metabolism, environment, friends, etc.....but realizing we each have a purposeful and willful choice to make. Only by changing our choices will we really make a difference. WE have to do that. No one can do it for us. If WE change, then that is the best motivation for others. Leading by positive example will win more folks over than anything else will."


http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says?lite

I added the link to the article we had been discussing....so you know what I was talking about. I think it applies to what you are saying.

Ebilfairylight

I've also been seeing quite a few people on facebook posting things like "Don't tell me I'm fat, that's "fat shaming" me!" and things like "if size 2 is beautiful, my size 22 must be divine!" and guys saying they will only date overweight and obese women.

I don't call people fat - it's rude. Don't care what I'm trying to do with MY body, it's rude to negatively comment on someone else's. Don't give a rat's *kitten* if someone says they feel prettier if they are overweight or that they prefer overweight partners. Their body, their preferences - ain't none of my business.

I think the voice of reason just stepped into the world...

andyisandy

I've also been seeing quite a few people on facebook posting things like "Don't tell me I'm fat, that's "fat shaming" me!" and things like "if size 2 is beautiful, my size 22 must be divine!" and guys saying they will only date overweight and obese women.

I don't call people fat - it's rude. Don't care what I'm trying to do with MY body, it's rude to negatively comment on someone else's. Don't give a rat's *kitten* if someone says they feel prettier if they are overweight or that they prefer overweight partners. Their body, their preferences - ain't none of my business.

oh hell if they feel pretty at a large weight let them! some people are like that! and yes it is none of our business

wendybird5

I've also been seeing quite a few people on facebook posting things like "Don't tell me I'm fat, that's "fat shaming" me!" and things like "if size 2 is beautiful, my size 22 must be divine!" and guys saying they will only date overweight and obese women.

I don't call people fat - it's rude. Don't care what I'm trying to do with MY body, it's rude to negatively comment on someone else's. Don't give a rat's *kitten* if someone says they feel prettier if they are overweight or that they prefer overweight partners. Their body, their preferences - ain't none of my business.

I think the voice of reason just stepped into the world...

This!!

hexrei

Having read the abstract, I'd like to point out that this refers to "all-cause mortality". This means ALL deaths, no matter the cause. While it does look like they adjusted for age, sex, and smoking, there are lifestyle differences that they did not account for, at least not according to the abstract.

Know what obese people don't do much of? Dangerous outdoorsy stuff like: rockclimbing, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, base jumping, cave diving, frankly lots of sports and outdoor activitives- because either they wouldn't be able to do these things while obese, or they would quickly not be obese if they did them often. Deaths due to these activities are not taken into account in the study. In other words, living a safe life in doors and sedentary might lend a significant hand in living longer cause you won't break your neck going down a mountain face or drowning in the ocean.

Then we can look at lifestyles of drug abuse. If you're a regular partier and consumer of coke or meth or E or other appetite suppressants, you're probably going to be on average skinnier, yet you may be shortening your lifespan due to these activities. Same for people with eating disorders. Starving oneself to stay thin is not beneficial.

I have a tough time believing that simply having extra fat on ones' body alone would increase lifespan, there have to be other factors at work here.

RoadsterGirlie

People are full of excuses... :eyeroll:

CrazyTrackLady

I typed the below in response to a a friend posting a link about the proverbial "fat shaming". Forgivme me I am copying so I don't have to retype....


"I think shaming would do little good and likely make it worse. I do think the problem should not be coddled or ignored. I don't think forcing any new regulations on the industries will do anything. They are just responding to demand. More regulations will help NOTHING. They give us what we ask for. What will help is being truthful about ourselves. Admitting when we have a problem. Not blaming it on our body, metabolism, environment, friends, etc.....but realizing we each have a purposeful and willful choice to make. Only by changing our choices will we really make a difference. WE have to do that. No one can do it for us. If WE change, then that is the best motivation for others. Leading by positive example will win more folks over than anything else will."


http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says?lite

I added the link to the article we had been discussing....so you know what I was talking about. I think it applies to what you are saying.

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food. In fact, I've begun working it into my science lectures about cell structures and the importance of eating right and being healthy and how it plays in the role of cell stability, energy and reproduction.

I think we have become less concerned with the issue of obesity, and more complacent with children who are overweight. I find it unsettling that pediatricians are not really pursuing the issue. Yes, it's uncomfortable to tell a parent their child is obese, but I think there are ways we can do this that doesn't offend the parents. IT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED AND ADDRESSED.

We've become a nation of fatties, and it's getting harder and harder to change our country's situation, mostly because nobody is willing to admit that what we are a nation of junk food junkies (well, a lot of us are)/

I'm not referencing anyone in particular here, but the nation as a collective.

SanteMulberry

I agree with all of you--that's why we're logging our food and exercising---'cause we want to get healthier. I was at 50% BF (morbidly obese) when I started my journey two years ago and have lost 50 pounds (only 15 of them since I joined MFP), 8 inches off my waist and am down to 32% BF. That's still technically "obese" but I'm determined to get out of that category over the next six months. I want to get to 25% in a year or so but I will be patient. Even at 25%, I will likely be a little plump but I think that is likely what the doctors were talking about when they said those who are "overweight" live longer. Someone who is a little plump is probably better nourished that those who are excessively thin through following crazy diets or some such. Just talked to a woman who lost her best friend to cancer. She said that she always knew that the friend would die young because she was always following some weird diet and that she was super thin anyway.

JanaCanada

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

AMS44067

If we would agree with that study we wouldn't be here trying to lose weight, right?

Everybody has the right to be fat, skinny or whateverr they chose to be.
I just know that I feel uncomfortable when I sit in my recliner and my stomach feels like it is in my way, so I know eactly when I hit the point when I have to lose that weight that makes me uncomfortable.

And to be honest, don' we all know that not being overweight is healthier for our joints, heart, blood pressure etc. etc.?

chelseabuns88

If people are happy, so be it.

I'm here because I don't want to get fatter.. but I don't particularly give a crap about BMI either.. As long as I FEEL healthy and happy, I could not care less.

Some people are perfectly happy being overweight, I wish everyone would just get over it.. It's none of your business, just because it's easier to label someone fat doesn't mean they are any more unhealthy or anymore at risk of illness, injury or death than people who do not carry around their bad habits with them constantly.

CrazyTrackLady

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

Thanks for the heads up. No, I make it a point to say "This is what your age group requires daily in the following groups: X calories, X fat grams, X sodium mg, X sugars, etc." I also teach them how to read a food label, calculate the number of servings per whatever it is they are eating, the importance of the nutrients IN the food (all part of what they learn during the cell unit - since nutrients end up in the cells), and the importance of exercise. (Last year, we even ended up doing a Zumba flash mob for the rest of the school at the talent show -- it was a blast!)

We do a lot of math and I put the focus on eating RIGHT, not eating LESS. Oh my, I think what that teacher did was wrong. I certainly do not want any student taking it to the extreme, but I appreciate the reminder that teachers can have a powerful influence over children, even in unharmful ways!

Oh, one other thing. One of the worst things a teacher can bring into their classroom is their own personal opinions about whatever it is they're teaching. Even though I am a big believer in healthy eating choices, I am GF and love to exercise, I do NOT make it a point to preach to my students. They know I love to exercise, they know how I feel about eating right, because they see me "walking the walking". And they know I'm GF because I politely refuse all the birthday cookies and treats they bring in and offer me. But, I don't shove my opinions down their throats, either.

SanteMulberry

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

I cannot imagine why that dietary myth persists! Fat is not "bad"---our ancestors ate a LOT of fat and yet were quite thin. The fact that anyone would be doling this "information" out to children is nearly criminal. It is SO aggravating and leads to situations like your daughter's. I have never made any attempt to limit fat and I have lost 50 pounds of it off my body (but I do not eat any sugar at all). I saw several pediatric weight loss sites that recommended a HIGH FAT/ no sugar diet (including eliminating fruit juice) for children who were getting too fat. Most or all of the subjects in several studies returned to a normal body fat level within a year.

JanaCanada

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

Thanks for the heads up. No, I make it a point to say "This is what your age group requires daily in the following groups: X calories, X fat grams, X sodium mg, X sugars, etc." I also teach them how to read a food label, calculate the number of servings per whatever it is they are eating, the importance of the nutrients IN the food (all part of what they learn during the cell unit - since nutrients end up in the cells), and the importance of exercise. (Last year, we even ended up doing a Zumba flash mob for the rest of the school at the talent show -- it was a blast!)

We do a lot of math and I put the focus on eating RIGHT, not eating LESS. Oh my, I think what that teacher did was wrong. I certainly do not want any student taking it to the extreme, but I appreciate the reminder that teachers can have a powerful influence over children, even in unharmful ways!

Oh, one other thing. One of the worst things a teacher can bring into their classroom is their own personal opinions about whatever it is they're teaching. Even though I am a big believer in healthy eating choices, I am GF and love to exercise, I do NOT make it a point to preach to my students. They know I love to exercise, they know how I feel about eating right, because they see me "walking the walking". And they know I'm GF because I politely refuse all the birthday cookies and treats they bring in and offer me. But, I don't shove my opinions down their throats, either.

We need more teachers like you. :flowerforyou:

gororules

If your blood pressure, sugar, fiber, calcium, cholesterol and sodium levels are normal and you don't have mobility issues, your weight is meaningless, and just is a self-image thing. BMI is not significant by itself at all.

hexrei

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

Thanks for the heads up. No, I make it a point to say "This is what your age group requires daily in the following groups: X calories, X fat grams, X sodium mg, X sugars, etc." I also teach them how to read a food label, calculate the number of servings per whatever it is they are eating, the importance of the nutrients IN the food (all part of what they learn during the cell unit - since nutrients end up in the cells), and the importance of exercise. (Last year, we even ended up doing a Zumba flash mob for the rest of the school at the talent show -- it was a blast!)

We do a lot of math and I put the focus on eating RIGHT, not eating LESS. Oh my, I think what that teacher did was wrong. I certainly do not want any student taking it to the extreme, but I appreciate the reminder that teachers can have a powerful influence over children, even in unharmful ways!

Oh, one other thing. One of the worst things a teacher can bring into their classroom is their own personal opinions about whatever it is they're teaching. Even though I am a big believer in healthy eating choices, I am GF and love to exercise, I do NOT make it a point to preach to my students. They know I love to exercise, they know how I feel about eating right, because they see me "walking the walking". And they know I'm GF because I politely refuse all the birthday cookies and treats they bring in and offer me. But, I don't shove my opinions down their throats, either.

Fast food is not inherently "bad" either, I'm not sure why you'd emphasize that. The problem with fast food is the encouragement toward giant portions, supersizing, and overconsumption. At the end of the day, you can get unhealthily obese eating "healthy" meals prepared with love at home (or an expensive restaurant, for that matter) if you are eating too much, and stay in excellent shape eating a significant percentage of your diet from fast food if you make intelligent choices about what foods and portions you consume.

bearwith

If you are over a healthy BMI you are putting lots of stress on your heart, liver, kidneys, joints and your skin stretches.

If you are carrying around excess weight then you are having to work so much harder than if you were a good weight that suited your bones.

KenosFeoh

Overweight is not the same thing as obesity, which starts, I think, at about 31% body fat.

cncrafton

This is why I engage very little in the forums here and mostly use MFP for the tools. The rampant body shaming is just so disheartening.

The only body you need to worry about is yours. You have no right to an opinion about anyone else's. No, not even if you're just ~worried about their health, because let me tell you, you're really not. You're making a judgement about someone based on what you can see and what you have been taught is bad and unhealthy. I would suggest that you read up on healthism and medicalization, but I know that in general, the MFP forums are not big on progressive thought.

Being fat is not bad or good. A person's size and shape have absolutely no bearing on their morality. Obesity is not a problem for you to fight for others. It is not a virus to be eradicated. If you're worried about it for yourself, deal with it for yourself and then let it be. You don't need to worry that fat people are being coddled. Believe me, we really, really aren't. By all means, do not coddle fatties about their weight. But also, by all means, shut the **** up about it, period. It's not your business. Go live your own life. If someone only wants to date fat people, that is fine. If someone thinks their size 22 is divine, that is fine. If someone asks that you not call them fat, THAT IS MORE THAN FINE. That is a request for human decency. Accomodate it.

CrazyTrackLady

This is why I engage very little in the forums here and mostly use MFP for the tools. The rampant body shaming is just so disheartening.

The only body you need to worry about is yours. You have no right to an opinion about anyone else's. No, not even if you're just ~worried about their health, because let me tell you, you're really not. You're making a judgement about someone based on what you can see and what you have been taught is bad and unhealthy. I would suggest that you read up on healthism and medicalization, but I know that in general, the MFP forums are not big on progressive thought.

Being fat is not bad or good. A person's size and shape have absolutely no bearing on their morality. Obesity is not a problem for you to fight for others. It is not a virus to be eradicated. If you're worried about it for yourself, deal with it for yourself and then let it be. You don't need to worry that fat people are being coddled. Believe me, we really, really aren't. By all means, do not coddle fatties about their weight. But also, by all means, shut the **** up about it, period. It's not your business. Go live your own life. If someone only wants to date fat people, that is fine. If someone thinks their size 22 is divine, that is fine. If someone asks that you not call them fat, THAT IS MORE THAN FINE. That is a request for human decency. Accomodate it.

I agree with you when it comes to adults. I completely disagree with you when it comes to childhood obesity. That IS our issue - because our children are our country's future. When 8 year olds are diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, only because they are 50 lbs overweight for their age and height, then that IS a problem. And yes, as a health teacher, it is MY job to inform children of proper nutrition, because I am guided by the curriculum of the state and my diocese. So, I will continue to address it in my classrooms, and endorse it with my students, because it is my business. If I can get children to think about their futures, and what they are eating that can positively or negatively influence their health, darn right I'm going to tell them how to live long and be healthy. AND, the best way we can help our children is by becoming the role models they need to see.

CrazyTrackLady

Obesity begins in the home. That's where we need to begin the fight -- with childhood. I am a teacher, and I will be teaching health to 6th graders next quarter. The focus, for us, will be on nutrition. I make them do a full blown research project on all types of fast food, making them aware of what exactly they are putting into their bodies. I'm not telling them HOW or WHAT to eat, but I am letting them know how their bodies react to bad food.

Be verrry careful about what you define as "bad". My 11 year old daughter's teacher taught a nutrition curriculum, and told the class that any food with fat in it was "bad". My daughter, already a bit under weight, began an eating disorder, thanks to this. She would read labels constantly, and if they showed even a 1% fat content, she didn't eat it. She lost 20 lbs. in 3 months and we had to take her to a pediatric dietician to de-program her. It was every parent's nightmare.

Thanks for the heads up. No, I make it a point to say "This is what your age group requires daily in the following groups: X calories, X fat grams, X sodium mg, X sugars, etc." I also teach them how to read a food label, calculate the number of servings per whatever it is they are eating, the importance of the nutrients IN the food (all part of what they learn during the cell unit - since nutrients end up in the cells), and the importance of exercise. (Last year, we even ended up doing a Zumba flash mob for the rest of the school at the talent show -- it was a blast!)

We do a lot of math and I put the focus on eating RIGHT, not eating LESS. Oh my, I think what that teacher did was wrong. I certainly do not want any student taking it to the extreme, but I appreciate the reminder that teachers can have a powerful influence over children, even in unharmful ways!

Oh, one other thing. One of the worst things a teacher can bring into their classroom is their own personal opinions about whatever it is they're teaching. Even though I am a big believer in healthy eating choices, I am GF and love to exercise, I do NOT make it a point to preach to my students. They know I love to exercise, they know how I feel about eating right, because they see me "walking the walking". And they know I'm GF because I politely refuse all the birthday cookies and treats they bring in and offer me. But, I don't shove my opinions down their throats, either.

Fast food is not inherently "bad" either, I'm not sure why you'd emphasize that. The problem with fast food is the encouragement toward giant portions, supersizing, and overconsumption. At the end of the day, you can get unhealthily obese eating "healthy" meals prepared with love at home (or an expensive restaurant, for that matter) if you are eating too much, and stay in excellent shape eating a significant percentage of your diet from fast food if you make intelligent choices about what foods and portions you consume.

Fast food is not bad IN MODERATION. When I quickly surveyed my students last year, half of them admitted to eating fast foods a minimum of 3 times per week. This, to me, is extreme. They need to know what they are eating.

For example, we discovered one of the Sonic Fruit Smoothies, that is promoted as a "healthy choice", has the equivalent of 37 teaspoons of sugar in it, and approximately 1100 calories. IN THAT ONE PRODUCT. This is hardly healthy, isn't it?

Once they were aware that portion size means calorie size, and that there isn't only 400 calories in a pizza, but 400 calories in ONE SLICE (multiplied by 8, well you do the math), they did the math to find out they were exceeding their daily caloric intakes just by having 3 pieces. And when it came to sodium, it was even worse.

AWARENESS of what we are eating is the key in changing our habits. I have already exceeded my sodium intake today, and I'm freaking out because I'm going out for a fancy dinner which the appetizer is very salty. Awareness of this is making me rethink the appetizer choice.

neverstray

In the USA, Medicare is funded how?

Oh yeah, yes, I care when people are fat and don't care. It costs ME more money in an already stressed system. I HATE IT with every fiber in my body, and then a healthy person gets something, and can't get any coverage because all the fat people have spent all the Goddamn money...drained the account dry.