Should we encourage the belief?

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

It's all about the Bacon. And bacon spelled backwards is "no cab" and that sux at 3:00 in the morning when it's raining

Desserts spelled backwards is stressed, kind of like how you'd feel if it were raining and there weren't any cabs at 3 am. Moral of story:
Eat Bacon. And desserts.

Bless you, my child.

Alohathin

Suggesting that encouraging aTEMPORARY belief in Santa Claus will cause chidren to forego critical thinking FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is asinine. I don't have any graduate degrees but I'm pretty sure I don't need one to say conclusively that the majority of people who grew up believing in Santa Claus did not develop trust issues because of it.
Way to jump the shark!

Socrates would agree with you. One of Plato's critical thinking tools was having Socrates allow someone to believe the truth of something that isn't true and allow them, through a series of questions, discoveries, etc. to determine the real truth. That IS critical thinking at its finest.

That, and Albert Einstein would have said that it's just fun to play pretend with kids. But he had a lot of kids around him and would know something about it. Obviously, not regarding the belief in Santa being as how he wasn't Christian faith.

Exactly. And that's how I discovered the truth about Santa. I kept asking my mother how all these improbalities could be true and she said "What do you think?" Eventually I came to the conclusion that Santa was not real. Was I upset for awhile? Yes. Did I get over it? Pretty quickly. And do the wonderful memories of believing in that magic persist while the dissapointment has long since abated? You betcha.

Christmas is a magical time of year for me whether Santa is involved or not.

kbeckley11

I don't see why not. It's great to remember the magic of Santa when we're older. Every Christmas Eve, Santa would call my house just to make sure I'd been a good girl all year. I now know, of course, that it was my dad calling from work when he worked nights. But those are great memories.

I think that it's fine to let kids think there's really a Santa Claus. When the time comes when they begin to realize that Mom and Santa Claus have the same handwriting, it's also okay to tell them the truth.

My mom told me that Santa is very busy on Christmas Eve, so sometimes she would help him out by filling out the tags, thus the same handwriting.

CharRicho

Yes. It is your educated and very inexperienced opinion. And yes, you are entitled to it. In the future, you may want to make it clear without forcing someone to cross examine you. I've actually spoken about this issue in detail with real experts and the majority of opinions that I have heard tell me that no harm is done. You see, I take my job as a father incredibly seriously. You may want to learn to be less judgmental, as inexperienced and judgmental is one heck of a combination. I am sure you will bring much honor to your eventual profession.

Edit: To be very clear, the only objection I have is to your claim that encouraging a belief in Santa Claus is damaging. I think either choice is pretty legitimate on a parent's part, and I can see good arguments either way. I doubt either is damaging.

You seem to have a serious problem with my education. I'm not sure why you take it so personally. You may have researched the issue properly before you made your decision, but I would argue that most parents do not, and simply lie about Santa because it's what was done to them. This does not qualify them to speak on this subject any more than me, who has thought about it and read about it quite a bit. I actually took it upon myself recently to make the decision about what I would do with my kids, and decided to do some research on what other (more experienced) people have to say. And that combined with what I learned during my degree on lying and children is how I formed my "inexperienced" opinion. Good for you that you take your job as a father seriously. More people should. But you shouldn't take it as a personal attack on your parenting skills that my educated opinion differs from your educated opinion.

Obviously you find me somehow offensive, I'm not very sorry about that really. It's probably because my parents lied to me about Santa.

n2thenight24

I don't see why not. It's great to remember the magic of Santa when we're older. Every Christmas Eve, Santa would call my house just to make sure I'd been a good girl all year. I now know, of course, that it was my dad calling from work when he worked nights. But those are great memories.

I think that it's fine to let kids think there's really a Santa Claus. When the time comes when they begin to realize that Mom and Santa Claus have the same handwriting, it's also okay to tell them the truth.

My mom told me that Santa is very busy on Christmas Eve, so sometimes she would help him out by filling out the tags, thus the same handwriting.

This is what I just told my son this Christmas. Santa is busy, so I fill out the tags. He's smart as a whip, so I bought wrapping paper he didn't recognize, but didn't buy different tags, so he noticed right off!

robot_potato

Children grow up way too fast. Keep the magic alive.

ninerbuff

Alright so:

Should I tell my 8 year old that Mickey Mouse is really an under paid human wearing a suit? Or let her believe that he and his Magical Kingdom exists? I mean it really does if you go to Disneyland and all.

I'm more than sure we have ADULT critical thinkers here who were Santa, Tooth Fairy, and Easter Bunny believers.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

TheConsciousFoody

Uh...what is this talk about there not being a Santa......Santa is real....


haters

Alohathin

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

ninerbuff

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

St. Nick was a real person though. The man was generous and gave gifts. Of course the story got exaggerated and eventually commercialized, so in truth to say that Santa wasn't a real person would be false.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

Which is what most people do presently. Present "Santa" isn't real yet the tradition of gift giving and association of with with St. Nick still exists.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

TheConsciousFoody

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

I am so glad you're not my dad.

Alohathin

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

I am so glad you're not my dad.

Lol. Why; because I'm not comfortable lying to a kid?

There are many, many ways to make Christmas a magical time for your family without having to rely on Santa. I was raised believing in Santa, but my very best Christmas memories came long after I found out the truth.

Alohathin

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

St. Nick was a real person though. The man was generous and gave gifts. Of course the story got exaggerated and eventually commercialized, so in truth to say that Santa wasn't a real person would be false.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

Which is what most people do presently. Present "Santa" isn't real yet the tradition of gift giving and association of with with St. Nick still exists.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Yes, it's what most people do once their kids are a certain age. Most people do not present Santa as fiction until after their kids find out one way or another.

Look, I don't think it's damaging to the kids to let them believe in Santa. I, personally, would just feel like I was hoaxing my kids. I'm not going to sit them down at three years old and say, "look, Santa isn't real, don't believe what the other kids tell you." I'm just not going out of my way to perpetuate the facade.

Alohathin

I am so glad you're not my dad.

I wouldn't even mind if my kid's mother wanted to perpetuate the Santa thing. I just don't want to be part of the deception. That doesn't mean I'm going to burst the bubble. My kid/s will not find out about that truth from me, at least not directly; either they will be told by someone else, or I'll help them figure it out themselves. I'll teach them to find their own answers, rather than just give it to them.

And I promise you, my future children will love Christmas every single year they spend it with me, whether they believe in Santa or not.

TheConsciousFoody

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

I am so glad you're not my dad.

Lol. Why; because I'm not comfortable lying to a kid?

There are many, many ways to make Christmas a magical time for your family without having to rely on Santa. I was raised believing in Santa, but my very best Christmas memories came long after I found out the truth.

I swear, I sometimes still believe in Santa. Its magical, its warmth, its fun. I'm imaginative, creative, and hopeful. The idea of Santa is fantastic. My GPA would dress like him when I was a toddler and my cousin and I would hear a sound...and wake up to seeing "Santa" running out the door.

My kids...their eyes light up when Santa writes them a little note that is left with the cookies..or if a reindeer accidentally stepped on a present (aka I ripped the paper when I fell on the gift)

Santa was and always will be a very fond memory for me

sunsnstatheart

I, for one, never said that letting them believe in Santa would ruin their critical thinking skills for life; and I don't think anyone was suggesting that. But when my kids ask me a question, I'd like to think that I can help them figure out the answer themselves, mostly through probing questions which cause them to think, rather than just handing them the information. And I certainly much prefer not to hand them incorrect information.

So here's my question to you: Do you think Hawaii would be as beautiful a culture as it is now if the natives at the time DIDN'T believe in Pele, Akua, Kane, Kanaloa because someone thought that their information lacked? Yes, most NOW know, but still today the Mary Monarch festival revolves around dances still dedicated to the gods.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Believing a deity/deities to be true, and passing that dogma along to your children is not the same thing as passing along information that you know is false. You are comparing apples and oranges. A comparable analogy would be if you also believed in Santa.

St. Nick was a real person though. The man was generous and gave gifts. Of course the story got exaggerated and eventually commercialized, so in truth to say that Santa wasn't a real person would be false.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Or, for the people who celebrate the traditions of the festival despite knowing it is based on mythology, a comparable analogy would be if you told your kids the truth about Santa, but celebrated the tradition anyway.

Which is what most people do presently. Present "Santa" isn't real yet the tradition of gift giving and association of with with St. Nick still exists.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Yes, it's what most people do once their kids are a certain age. Most people do not present Santa as fiction until after their kids find out one way or another.

Look, I don't think it's damaging to the kids to let them believe in Santa. I, personally, would just feel like I was hoaxing my kids. I'm not going to sit them down at three years old and say, "look, Santa isn't real, don't believe what the other kids tell you." I'm just not going out of my way to perpetuate the facade.

I think you made some good points and this is exactly why I prefaced my comment on the first page the way I did. I think arguing harm is going to come to children based solely on whether they believe in Santa and/or other childhood fantasies is preposterous. I choose to encourage the belief with the understanding that at some point they will figure it out with my help. As I said in my initial post, I believe that helping children solve these riddles can help their critical thinking skills, but I wouldn't argue that not giving them these fantasies somehow damages that ability either. It's up to the parents to guide and teach their children and I think how they do so and how they allow their children to have these fantasies is far more important than what fantasies, if any, they allow their children. Put another way lying to your children about Santa and doing it in a cruel way could be harmful and, then again, cruelly bursting your children's bubbles about Santa or Mickey Mouse could be equally as harmful. It's raising your children in a thoughtful and loving way that matters.

chocl8girl

People should raise their kids any way that they think is best. I don't think there is any harm in it when they are smaller. I think my kids believed until there were about 4-5, I never really made it an issue one way or the other, or staged any elaborate schemes like leaving cookies out or anything like that, and when they asked, I told them the truth.

TheRoadDog

No, I don't plan to lie to my children. Santa isn't a little white lie you tell them to not hurt them, it's a deliberate deception. You might think it's harmless but it's really not. All your children learn from it is that you don't always tell them the truth, they can't always trust you.

Sure, it's probably fun for them, but totally not worth it in my opinion. There are plenty of other ways to have fun with them.


I have a degree in psychology with a specialization in child and adolescent development.

I doubt that they would be psychologically damaged for life. Relax.. Let your children enjoy being children.

wrotruck

Yes.

/discussion

^^ This!