Build Muscle while calorie deficit?
Replies
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My edited post is below...................
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Eat a slight calorie deficit. However, load up on the protein. The general rule of thumb is 1 gram/protein per 1 lbs of body weight (if you weight 150 lbs, eat 150 grams of protein).
Wow, that's about 3x the protein I eat on a typical day. Serious carb-hound here. Thanks for the info!
I've heard it as 1 gram per pound of lean body mass, so that's what I do. So for me, 130 lbs, 25% body fat, I aim for 97 grams.
It is a lot, I have trouble reaching it.
That's what I do too. I think protein intake or requirement differs from person to person as well as according to age.
Here is a link I found interesting.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbprotein.htm0 -
I would also reccomend a few youtube channels:
http://www.youtube.com/user/OmarIsuf - Omar Isuf
http://www.youtube.com/user/strengthcamp - Elliot Hulse
http://www.youtube.com/user/Team3DMJ - Eric Helms specifically is highly educated0 -
Thanks everyone! (OP, I'm sure this is helpful to you as well!) 0
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I had a question about this business of "calorie-deficit-to-lose-fat" versus "calorie-surplus-to-gain-muscle". How fast can our bodies shift from one mode to the other? What if I decide to eat more and lift weights Mon-Wed-Fri and then reduce calories and do some cardio on Tues-Thurs? Will I lose fat part of the week and grow muscle on other days?
Hrmm.. now that the experts are online, can someone take a crack at my question above? Is this the formula to build muscle *and* burn off fat, or am I just drunk on my post-workout merlot? :drinker:
Its more so an overall net effect. You would be basically spinning your wheels and maintaining.
Example: If my maintenance is 2000 calories and i eat 500 (1500 calories) below today and 500 (2500 calories) above that tomorrow its a net of 2000.
Thanks! This made sense once I thought about it a little more. :huh:
Thanks also to others who posted about appropriate protein intake. In looking at my food diary this month, there is never a day that I reached 90 grams and just a few where I broke 60. If I want to put on some of this "newbie" muscle mass that folks are talking about, I need to take in more P!0 -
Muscle requires protein to build. Not calories. If you do not get enough protein your body will eat away at muscle as well as fat and you will heal slower and get less out of strength training. If you have trouble getting it in your regular diet try a protein powder. A scoop in the morning and a scoop at night before bed or right after a work out. Personally I eat a lot of tuna. I hike 4 days a week and strength train 3 days a week. I add protein powder after a work out and the next morning to add to the healing and gain.0
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Newbie gains. If you're new to lifting you ca. Still build muscle while eating at a decifit for about the first six months or so.Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
Yup muscle gain comes from your nervous system here and is mainly your muscles telling your brain to build more of me to help me for the next time I am put under tension.
Google search muscle building in deficit, and newbie gains, body re composition, modern encyclopedia of bodybuilding, there are literally tons of articals0 -
Muscle requires protein to build. Not calories. If you do not get enough protein your body will eat away at muscle as well as fat and you will heal slower and get less out of strength training. If you have trouble getting it in your regular diet try a protein powder. A scoop in the morning and a scoop at night before bed or right after a work out. Personally I eat a lot of tuna. I hike 4 days a week and strength train 3 days a week. I add protein powder after a work out and the next morning to add to the healing and gain.
Just like eating fat doesn't make you fat, eating and overeating protein won't grow muscle. Calories are energy, and although certain micronutrients effect the body more, they are all still converted to energy - a calorie. Personally I would rather go with carbs over protein for muscle growth0 -
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
This is my issue too. My legs get enormous. Right now I'm only doing a couple exercises for legs, mostly just squats and lunges and a couple things with an exercise ball. I'm not doing any weight on them. When I got back to work out a month ago my legs were smaller then. It wasn't until this week when I got on this new plan I changed up what I was doing to be far less legs. except for cardio0 -
Muscle requires protein to build. Not calories. If you do not get enough protein your body will eat away at muscle as well as fat and you will heal slower and get less out of strength training. If you have trouble getting it in your regular diet try a protein powder. A scoop in the morning and a scoop at night before bed or right after a work out. Personally I eat a lot of tuna. I hike 4 days a week and strength train 3 days a week. I add protein powder after a work out and the next morning to add to the healing and gain.
I'm in the process of upping my protein intake. I'm vegan (nohatekthanx)so that cuts a lot out, but to be fair, before that I didn't eat much protein from meat, the main source of my protein was dairy, which I can never go back to eating even if I wanted to because I discovered I'm allergic. I do have protein powder so I'm trying to use it daily, it has 15g per serving. I should be out soon so I'll need a new one so I'll get one that's higher, I'll probably get vega or sun warrior. I was having a protein smoothies for breakfast but I think I'll just move that to a snack and eat breakfast instead and that should bump up protein and calories a bit. The rest of my meals I try and balance to get the most bang out of my meal in nutrients, protein-heavy wise I include lots of beans and whole grains and veggies since veggies add up. If I'm eating a salad I add in beans like soy beans or nuts or chia seeds..ect.0 -
She said she would like to tone. Low weight higher reps will tone well. No need for higher weight and a longer repair period. Most of mfp is a troll fest of bad info. Anyway good luck.
Oh, the irony.0 -
Eat a slight calorie deficit. However, load up on the protein. The general rule of thumb is 1 gram/protein per 1 lbs of body weight (if you weight 150 lbs, eat 150 grams of protein).
That should be 1g protein per 1lb of LBM0 -
Muscle requires protein to build. Not calories. If you do not get enough protein your body will eat away at muscle as well as fat and you will heal slower and get less out of strength training. If you have trouble getting it in your regular diet try a protein powder. A scoop in the morning and a scoop at night before bed or right after a work out. Personally I eat a lot of tuna. I hike 4 days a week and strength train 3 days a week. I add protein powder after a work out and the next morning to add to the healing and gain.
Protein is more important for preventing muscle loss during a cut than for building muscle when in a surplus.
Anabolic processes are far more protein efficient than catabolic processes.
For building muscle calories are a lot more important than protein.0 -
Muscle requires protein to build. Not calories. If you do not get enough protein your body will eat away at muscle as well as fat and you will heal slower and get less out of strength training. If you have trouble getting it in your regular diet try a protein powder. A scoop in the morning and a scoop at night before bed or right after a work out. Personally I eat a lot of tuna. I hike 4 days a week and strength train 3 days a week. I add protein powder after a work out and the next morning to add to the healing and gain.
It needs calories as well.
Outside newbie gains, which are limited and finite, you need to eat at a caloric surplus to build muscle.0 -
Eat a slight calorie deficit. However, load up on the protein. The general rule of thumb is 1 gram/protein per 1 lbs of body weight (if you weight 150 lbs, eat 150 grams of protein).
That should be 1g protein per 1lb of LBM
Depends on how fat you are. Per lb of LBM is a good modifier for fat people, but not much of a difference for lean people.0 -
I would also reccomend a few youtube channels:
http://www.youtube.com/user/OmarIsuf - Omar Isuf
http://www.youtube.com/user/strengthcamp - Elliot Hulse
http://www.youtube.com/user/Team3DMJ - Eric Helms specifically is highly educated
Eric Helms is da bomb.com0 -
Eat a slight calorie deficit. However, load up on the protein. The general rule of thumb is 1 gram/protein per 1 lbs of body weight (if you weight 150 lbs, eat 150 grams of protein).
That should be 1g protein per 1lb of LBM
Depends on how fat you are. Per lb of LBM is a good modifier for fat people, but not much of a difference for lean people.
Makes a difference for me - don't forget, females have a higher set point.0 -
Unless if your on dat dere cell tech, you aren't going to build significant muscle on a deficit.0
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Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
This is my issue too. My legs get enormous. Right now I'm only doing a couple exercises for legs, mostly just squats and lunges and a couple things with an exercise ball. I'm not doing any weight on them. When I got back to work out a month ago my legs were smaller then. It wasn't until this week when I got on this new plan I changed up what I was doing to be far less legs. except for cardio
It is possible to get some newbie gains while eating deficit, but this is thought to amount to no more than around 1lb pure muscle - obvioulsy this will be spread around the whole body so it's not enough to make your thighs noticeably bigger. What you're experiencing is likely water retention in the thigh muscles making them appear bigger/firmer (muscles load up on glycogen stores plus around 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen after an intense workout). The quads are such a large muscle group so they are susceptible to being swole the day or two after leg day.
I for one cannot wear my skinny jeans the day after leg day.0 -
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
This is my issue too. My legs get enormous. Right now I'm only doing a couple exercises for legs, mostly just squats and lunges and a couple things with an exercise ball. I'm not doing any weight on them. When I got back to work out a month ago my legs were smaller then. It wasn't until this week when I got on this new plan I changed up what I was doing to be far less legs. except for cardio
It is possible to get some newbie gains while eating deficit, but this is thought to amount to no more than around 1lb pure muscle - obvioulsy this will be spread around the whole body so it's not enough to make your thighs noticeably bigger. What you're experiencing is likely water retention in the thigh muscles making them appear bigger/firmer (muscles load up on glycogen stores plus around 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen after an intense workout). The quads are such a large muscle group so they are susceptible to being swole the day or two after leg day.
I for one cannot wear my skinny jeans the day after leg day.
I thought it should be something like that because I had been working out and my pants actually fit tighter in the thigh than they did the last time I wore them so I was freaking out. lol0 -
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
This is my issue too. My legs get enormous. Right now I'm only doing a couple exercises for legs, mostly just squats and lunges and a couple things with an exercise ball. I'm not doing any weight on them. When I got back to work out a month ago my legs were smaller then. It wasn't until this week when I got on this new plan I changed up what I was doing to be far less legs. except for cardio
It is possible to get some newbie gains while eating deficit, but this is thought to amount to no more than around 1lb pure muscle - obvioulsy this will be spread around the whole body so it's not enough to make your thighs noticeably bigger. What you're experiencing is likely water retention in the thigh muscles making them appear bigger/firmer (muscles load up on glycogen stores plus around 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen after an intense workout). The quads are such a large muscle group so they are susceptible to being swole the day or two after leg day.
I for one cannot wear my skinny jeans the day after leg day.
I thought it should be something like that because I had been working out and my pants actually fit tighter in the thigh than they did the last time I wore them so I was freaking out. lol
It's ok, I had a little mini freak out after I did squats the first time because my butt was an inch bigger and I had just gone to maintenance so I wasn't totally confident about my calorie level. Sometimes it's hard even if you know what's going on to remember that it's not fat.
Now I love looking "swole" the day after I lift-- it looks like I have more muscle than I do. :P0 -
Eat a slight calorie deficit. However, load up on the protein. The general rule of thumb is 1 gram/protein per 1 lbs of body weight (if you weight 150 lbs, eat 150 grams of protein).
That should be 1g protein per 1lb of LBM
Depends on how fat you are. Per lb of LBM is a good modifier for fat people, but not much of a difference for lean people.
Makes a big difference to me! I have a hard enough time reaching 97 grams. :P0 -
I've often wondered if noob gains are no more than intra cellular water as nutrients are shuttled in to repair the muscle. Would explain the extra bulk to the muscle which would not have been there if the muscles had not been worked.0
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I have to say, as a newbie to this site, this thread has left me entirely confused. So, I have lost 50 pounds in about 12 months with another 30 to go...My workout routine does not include heavy lifting, but does include lower and upper body strength and resistance training every other day using lighter weights. I have seen a significant change in my muscle tone (especially upper body) and personal strength. As I still have 30 pounds to go, am I understanding that I should not move to heavy lifting until I am no longer working in a calorie deficit to drop these 30?
Yes, but it is attributed to the fact that you are at a caloric deficit, not because your rep range is 15+. You will lose fat but will sacrafice some muscle as well. Lifting heavier helps to prevent the loss of strength and size from a caloric deficit., Total prevention is basically unavoidable though.
@LOLBroScience - thanks for your response. OK, I should clarify a bit - in terms of strength work I do, it is body weight focussed, or weights (free hand weights, kettlebell) to the point of fatigue. While in my fat loss reduction stage, is that advisable or would you say I should still add 'heavy lifting' into my program even while I am still in calorie deficit stage? This whole world of add strength training is still relatively new to me - I am one of many who grew up on 'cardio-cardio-cardio'.0 -
Bump...good stuff.0
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I've often wondered if noob gains are no more than intra cellular water as nutrients are shuttled in to repair the muscle. Would explain the extra bulk to the muscle which would not have been there if the muscles had not been worked.
That is very much the case.
The firming up of muslces that goes with charging energy stores will make your muscles measure larger and weight more, and since it isn't fat it is LBM gain.
It isn't however real muscle tissue. That is only built in a surplus.0 -
So can someone explain how a muscle can get STRONGER without growing LARGER?
ETA- If you fatigue the muscles to the point of tearing the fibers, will they repair and grow stronger? Even if you are in a cal deficit, but are eating enough protein?0 -
I've often wondered if noob gains are no more than intra cellular water as nutrients are shuttled in to repair the muscle. Would explain the extra bulk to the muscle which would not have been there if the muscles had not been worked.
That is very much the case.
The firming up of muslces that goes with charging energy stores will make your muscles measure larger and weight more, and since it isn't fat it is LBM gain.
It isn't however real muscle tissue. That is only built in a surplus.
Exactly...which is why a lot of people think they have 'got big and made gains' when in fact, all it is, is water/glycogen.
There are actual newbie gains....but most of what people think are gains are not.0 -
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms what the difference is between building muscle and toning?
When most people say they want to "tone," what they essentially mean is that they want to maintain muscle mass while decreasing their body fat %. This is usually accomplished most efficiently by lifting heavy and eating slightly below maintenance calories.
Building muscle can only be done by eating at a calorie surplus and lifting heavy for a long period of time. This is usually done once someone reaches their ideal body fat %.
So if I am doing cardio and strength training as my exercise regimen, I cannot build muscle or tone?
I just find it confusing based on my own results so far, as I am eating on a deficit, I have lost weight, but my thighs have not decreased in size. In fact, they have increased in size, they are firmer, and the muscle seems to be more visible as well. My jeans are getting tighter in the thighs, but looser in the waist. Is there an explanation for this?
This is my issue too. My legs get enormous. Right now I'm only doing a couple exercises for legs, mostly just squats and lunges and a couple things with an exercise ball. I'm not doing any weight on them. When I got back to work out a month ago my legs were smaller then. It wasn't until this week when I got on this new plan I changed up what I was doing to be far less legs. except for cardio
It is possible to get some newbie gains while eating deficit, but this is thought to amount to no more than around 1lb pure muscle - obvioulsy this will be spread around the whole body so it's not enough to make your thighs noticeably bigger. What you're experiencing is likely water retention in the thigh muscles making them appear bigger/firmer (muscles load up on glycogen stores plus around 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen after an intense workout). The quads are such a large muscle group so they are susceptible to being swole the day or two after leg day.
I for one cannot wear my skinny jeans the day after leg day.
^^yep. My jeans are noticeably tighter after a leg work out than before...its just the glycogen/water.0 -
I guess I don't have the terminology correct? I'm powerfully weak. I'm doing like 5lbs and 7.5lbs on bells and 20-30 on various machines. I'd just like to not be powerfully weak and lose fat at the same time. I don't care if I don't lose weight per say since I know muscle weighs more. I just heard that if you have muscle that helps raise your metabolism overall and burn more calories in general. I also wouldn't mind not being so weak. I think it's math. I was never good at math. I will try changing my goals on here.
You need to build muscle to raise your metabolism. Building muscle requires heavy lifting and a surplus of calories.
You can build stregnth in the mean time.. but strength doesn't mean more/bigger muscles.0
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