Build Muscle while calorie deficit?

Sarauk2sf

So can someone explain how a muscle can get STRONGER without growing LARGER?

ETA- If you fatigue the muscles to the point of tearing the fibers, will they repair and grow stronger? Even if you are in a cal deficit, but are eating enough protein?

Basically, neuromuscular adaptations, which cause the strength gains, is really making your existing muscles better.

These neurological adaptations are your body developing its ability to activate muscle fibers by increasing the frequency of neural impulses sent to the brain as well as improving intra- and inter-muscle coordination.

You can have significant strength gains without mass gains.

LindaLou252

Bump

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

So can someone explain how a muscle can get STRONGER without growing LARGER?

ETA- If you fatigue the muscles to the point of tearing the fibers, will they repair and grow stronger? Even if you are in a cal deficit, but are eating enough protein?

Stronger = myofibrillar hypertrophy

Bigger = sarcoplasmic hypertrophy

jesindc

Bump

madrose0715

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

redraidergirl2009

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

This?

now_or_never13

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

This?

You need to lift heavy to retain muscle provided all the other conditions are right.

Muscle growth will only happen when you are in a calorie surplus.

Sarauk2sf

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

How much you have to lose is not really relevant to whether you lift heavy. You need to lift heavy enough to maintain LBM on a deficit. The higher the reps (i,e., the lighter the weight), the less effective it is at doing this.

DebbieLyn63

This is a bit confusing, as my husband, who is a competitive cyclist and has very strong legs from cycling, started restricting cals when I did, 6 months ago. He has lost almost 20 pounds and is close to his goal weight. He has lost his belly fat he had, and has gone from a 33-34 inch jean down to a 30 inch waist. He has also started doing upper body work to get stronger for the mountain biking he has been doing over the past year. I see his arm, shoulder, chest, and back muscles considerably larger than they were 6 months ago. And not just after he works out.

Since he is in an overall calorie deficit, is this new muscle he's sporting called 'newbie' gains? Even if he was very physically active before?

Note that his goal is not to add a lot of muscle weight, as that added weight would hinder his racing, but he did need some more upper body strength to do well with the mountain biking, and now he looks fantastic. His upper body matches his lower body and has more of a 'cut' look. He is also a lot stronger in his upper body now.

Is what he did, considered 'toning'? Since it's not possible for him to have gained muscle while in a deficit?

Whatever you call it, he looks even hotter than he did before!

ETA- He wasn't 'lifting heavy', he was mainly doing body weight exercises, i.e. pushups, planks, pull ups, and dumbbell curls with 15-20 lb dumbbells that I have. He doesn't go to a gym.

madrose0715

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

How much you have to lose is not really relevant to whether you lift heavy. You need to lift heavy enough to maintain LBM on a deficit. The higher the reps (i,e., the lighter the weight), the less effective it is at doing this.

ok. Thanks. I got it...so, I think adding some heavy lifting during my fat loss is a good idea then to help prevent loss of LBM. Thanks, this makes sense to me.

LolBroScience

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

How much you have to lose is not really relevant to whether you lift heavy. You need to lift heavy enough to maintain LBM on a deficit. The higher the reps (i,e., the lighter the weight), the less effective it is at doing this.

Where can i find one of you ?

LolBroScience

This is a bit confusing, as my husband, who is a competitive cyclist and has very strong legs from cycling, started restricting cals when I did, 6 months ago. He has lost almost 20 pounds and is close to his goal weight. He has lost his belly fat he had, and has gone from a 33-34 inch jean down to a 30 inch waist. He has also started doing upper body work to get stronger for the mountain biking he has been doing over the past year. I see his arm, shoulder, chest, and back muscles considerably larger than they were 6 months ago. And not just after he works out.

Since he is in an overall calorie deficit, is this new muscle he's sporting called 'newbie' gains? Even if he was very physically active before?

Note that his goal is not to add a lot of muscle weight, as that added weight would hinder his racing, but he did need some more upper body strength to do well with the mountain biking, and now he looks fantastic. His upper body matches his lower body and has more of a 'cut' look. He is also a lot stronger in his upper body now.

Is what he did, considered 'toning'? Since it's not possible for him to have gained muscle while in a deficit?

Whatever you call it, he looks even hotter than he did before!

ETA- He wasn't 'lifting heavy', he was mainly doing body weight exercises, i.e. pushups, planks, pull ups, and dumbbell curls with 15-20 lb dumbbells that I have. He doesn't go to a gym.

So in a nutshell, its mostly perception. If you stick two guys next to each other who are both 170 lbs and one is at a very low body fat and the other is an average bodyfat, the guy who is at a lower bodyfat will appear to look larger. It certainly is posible your husand added a little size as you said he had first started upper body training, but the amount of muscle added would be minimal at best. It is more so due to the fact that fat loss has occured, so there is more seperation through muscular tie-ins and such... AKA muscle is more visible now since its not hiding under as much fat.

redraidergirl2009

Well this has left me more confused than before.

LolBroScience

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

How much you have to lose is not really relevant to whether you lift heavy. You need to lift heavy enough to maintain LBM on a deficit. The higher the reps (i,e., the lighter the weight), the less effective it is at doing this.

ok. Thanks. I got it...so, I think adding some heavy lifting during my fat loss is a good idea then to help prevent loss of LBM. Thanks, this makes sense to me.

Calorie Deficit + Hitting your Macro Goals + Heavy Lifting + Optional Cardio = results.

LolBroScience

Well this has left me more confused than before.

What are you confused about?

redraidergirl2009

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me..

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? I mean, if you're not going to get stronger or anything why do it? I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused...

porffor

Calorie Deficit + Hitting your Macro Goals + Heavy Lifting + Optional Cardio = results.

this is my method and I am losing (not overly rapidly but still down) and am changing shape.. firmer muscles, slightly bigger around the shoulders as didn't have any mass there before, strength gains, and clothes are loser and lots of 'you've lost loads of weight' comments.

Sarauk2sf

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me..

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? I mean, if you're not going to get stronger or anything why do it? I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused...

You need to do it to maintain muscle while dieting - it's actually more important than trying to gain muscle as muscle is so hard to increase, especially for women.

ETA: you will get stronger. I mentioned the neuromuscular adaptations (aka myofibril hypertrophy earlier).

How many reps do you do?

Sarauk2sf

ok, is the bottom line here that if you have significant fat to lose, you should be in a calorie deficit while doing light weight work to strengthen and then add heavy lifting for muscle growth once your fat loss is achieved???

How much you have to lose is not really relevant to whether you lift heavy. You need to lift heavy enough to maintain LBM on a deficit. The higher the reps (i,e., the lighter the weight), the less effective it is at doing this.

Where can i find one of you ?

:happy:

LolBroScience

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me..

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? I mean, if you're not going to get stronger or anything why do it? I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused...

You have a few different questions so I'll try and respond as best i can...

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me.. - This is relative to the individual. Generally based upon a certain percentage of the maximum amount of weight you can move. Say for example my Max Squat is 400 lbs. If i am lifting only 50% of that (200 lbs), that is not heavy. However, if im using say 80% of that i would consider that to be rather heavy.

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? - You can gain a minimal amount of muscle if you are an untrained individual. The longer you have been lifting and exercising the more difficult this will become, eventually reaching a point where you will actually need a surplus of calories for size gains.

I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused... - This is true. The more lean mass the body carries the more energy is needed to fuel it. Thus, those wit a higher lean body mass typically can consume more calories. You need to eat at a surplus to gain size, not to gain strength. Strentgh gain is primarily due to an improvement in your motor skills, or your nervous system become more efficient. This is why you can see some 120 lb power lifters who are stronger then someone who is 180 lbs. Their nervous system is much more efficient at recruiting muscle fibers and firing signals from the brain to perform these movements.

As far as you getting fat from the caloric surplus, this will happen. What this means though is that your surplus was too high. If you want to minimize the amount of fat gained while still being able to build new muscle, you do not need a high surplus - 100-200 cals over maintenance a day.

redraidergirl2009

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me..

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? I mean, if you're not going to get stronger or anything why do it? I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused...

You need to do it to maintain muscle while dieting - it's actually more important than trying to gain muscle as muscle is so hard to increase, especially for women.

ETA: you will get stronger. I mentioned the neuromuscular adaptations (aka myofibril hypertrophy earlier).

How many reps do you do?

for most things right now I do 3 sets of 10 reps.

Sarauk2sf

I'm confused by this whole "lifting heavy" thing. What I lift is the max I can lift without quitting...so that's heavy for me..

Then I also don't get the point of doing it if people are saying you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit....so is there any point to it? I mean, if you're not going to get stronger or anything why do it? I've always heard the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn even at rest so it helps you lose fat. But somehow out of the responses people are giving that's not true? And you need to eat at a surplus to get any benefits....I got fat eating at a surplus so I'm confused...

You need to do it to maintain muscle while dieting - it's actually more important than trying to gain muscle as muscle is so hard to increase, especially for women.

ETA: you will get stronger. I mentioned the neuromuscular adaptations (aka myofibril hypertrophy earlier).

How many reps do you do?

for most things right now I do 3 sets of 10 reps.

That is fine for where you are at - but I would not go above 10.