forever 9 clean detox??

ndj1979

how about we just say "forever no more detox threads" ....here we go ....I am in for the show and got my popcorn...I already see the pro cleansers have swept into the thread..

jofjltncb6

I am actualy against cleanses because I do not think they work. I am also not for this mentality that natural healing is evil and dangerous while rainbows hang over the pharmaceutical industry. The fact is that there CAN be dangers of ANY thing that goes into the body or any means used to remedy any kind of problem. That's a fact jack.

Oh. This was confusing - - you are against the critique of natural healing but earlier you said

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

For some reason I'm reading that as a contradiction.

I believe that our bodies 'automatically' process chemicals because of measurable and repeatable scientific proof which conclusively has proven that they do - Hg and Pb levels (for instance) fall over time. But I think maybe I misunderstood, and you're not saying that is false, but rather you're saying that eating a certain diet can potentially accelerate the body's processing of toxins. I haven't seen scientifically valid evidence to substantiate that yet; although I've seen lots of claims.

I am sure it is confusing to one who is on the attack. I am not against critique of natural healing, I am against the mindset that all natural healing is bad, all man made meds are good. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I do not support the use of cleanses. How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe. You see, I have a brain that I actually think with. I use it allllllll the time. I tend to look for the best way to take care of my body on all fronts, not just one. There is a good and bad side to everything. Modern medicine had it's good and bad along with anything else.
And sure, our bodies DO process chemicals, but that does not render those chemicals harmless. Your body might process a diet pill, and that diet pill may cause you a heart problem. Processing does not equal no ramifications of said chemical.

I don't recall anyone saying that...in this thread or anywhere else. It certainly isn't the prevailing response.

I believe this is what is known as a "straw man".

BurtHuttz

I am sure it is confusing to one who is on the attack. I am not against critique of natural healing, I am against the mindset that all natural healing is bad, all man made meds are good. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I do not support the use of cleanses. How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe. You see, I have a brain that I actually think with. I use it allllllll the time. I tend to look for the best way to take care of my body on all fronts, not just one. There is a good and bad side to everything. Modern medicine had it's good and bad along with anything else.
And sure, our bodies DO process chemicals, but that does not render those chemicals harmless. Your body might process a diet pill, and that diet pill may cause you a heart problem. Processing does not equal no ramifications of said chemical.

It wasn't my intention to attack you. You've made some claims that are directly contradictory, you've chosen undefined terms such as "natural healing", "whole foods", "toxins", which are meaningless without specificity. In the context of someone embarking upon a "cleanse", anything that seems to endorse such a notion should be fairly rigorously discussed, lest we "whole foods natural healing toxin" our way into endorsing The Master Cleanse and getting someone hurt out there. Again, it's a shame you feel attacked.

ndj1979

I like how people list all these side effects of any kind of means of healing the body , or anything that wasn't made by some big pharmaceutical industry. Have you ever seen or heard of any of the side effects from any medicine bottle? Some even have black box warnings. Doctor prescribed meds hurt just as many people as any natural remedy if not more.

Which "cleanse" protocol are you defending, exactly?

I am actually against cleanses because I do not think they work. I am also not for this mentality that natural healing is evil and dangerous while rainbows hang over the pharmaceutical industry. The fact is that there CAN be dangers of ANY thing that goes into the body or any means used to remedy any kind of problem. That's a fact jack.

So, our bodies don't detox naturally and we shouldn't argue against cleanses...........but they don't work? :huh:

this makes perfect sense! I will now do the raspberry ketone cleanse...

ndj1979

I am actualy against cleanses because I do not think they work. I am also not for this mentality that natural healing is evil and dangerous while rainbows hang over the pharmaceutical industry. The fact is that there CAN be dangers of ANY thing that goes into the body or any means used to remedy any kind of problem. That's a fact jack.

Oh. This was confusing - - you are against the critique of natural healing but earlier you said

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

For some reason I'm reading that as a contradiction.

I believe that our bodies 'automatically' process chemicals because of measurable and repeatable scientific proof which conclusively has proven that they do - Hg and Pb levels (for instance) fall over time. But I think maybe I misunderstood, and you're not saying that is false, but rather you're saying that eating a certain diet can potentially accelerate the body's processing of toxins. I haven't seen scientifically valid evidence to substantiate that yet; although I've seen lots of claims.

I am sure it is confusing to one who is on the attack. I am not against critique of natural healing, I am against the mindset that all natural healing is bad, all man made meds are good. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I do not support the use of cleanses. How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe. You see, I have a brain that I actually think with. I use it allllllll the time. I tend to look for the best way to take care of my body on all fronts, not just one. There is a good and bad side to everything. Modern medicine had it's good and bad along with anything else.
And sure, our bodies DO process chemicals, but that does not render those chemicals harmless. Your body might process a diet pill, and that diet pill may cause you a heart problem. Processing does not equal no ramifications of said chemical.

wait this is a natural healing thread? The topic said "forever 9 clean detox"....how did we go from detox to natural healing..???????????????

trogalicious

1223345

I am actualy against cleanses because I do not think they work. I am also not for this mentality that natural healing is evil and dangerous while rainbows hang over the pharmaceutical industry. The fact is that there CAN be dangers of ANY thing that goes into the body or any means used to remedy any kind of problem. That's a fact jack.

Oh. This was confusing - - you are against the critique of natural healing but earlier you said

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

For some reason I'm reading that as a contradiction.

I believe that our bodies 'automatically' process chemicals because of measurable and repeatable scientific proof which conclusively has proven that they do - Hg and Pb levels (for instance) fall over time. But I think maybe I misunderstood, and you're not saying that is false, but rather you're saying that eating a certain diet can potentially accelerate the body's processing of toxins. I haven't seen scientifically valid evidence to substantiate that yet; although I've seen lots of claims.

I am sure it is confusing to one who is on the attack. I am not against critique of natural healing, I am against the mindset that all natural healing is bad, all man made meds are good. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I do not support the use of cleanses. How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe. You see, I have a brain that I actually think with. I use it allllllll the time. I tend to look for the best way to take care of my body on all fronts, not just one. There is a good and bad side to everything. Modern medicine had it's good and bad along with anything else.

This is getting nasty. From the outside, they were pointing out things you said that were actually contradictory.

Actually it is not. This is my original comment that has been edited to suit the dogpile as usual. "Our bodies do not "detox naturally". If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true. Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat? the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle. Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling. Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well. Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much. People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals"
If you continue to contaminate your body with what ever you want to eliminate, you will never get "cleansed". Our bodies would most likely take care of themselves if only we would allow it, as I did state. Cleanse and then go back to what ever you were doing. That is useless. That is like going on some wacky smoothie diet to lose 50 pounds then once the weight is off acting shocked that the weight came back when you go back to whatever you were doing before. This is the same idea, only it is applied elsewhere. You know you understand my point. You simply want to attack. I don't really care if you need to inflict yourselves upon me for the good of your own ego. I stand by my statement. Carry on.

jonnythan

How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe.

What does any of this have to do with the Forever 9 Clean Detox? Why are you even posting in this thread?

redheaddee

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

Well someone forgot to tell this to our kidneys and livers and intestines. You call it detox, I call it pooping. :noway:

1223345

I am actualy against cleanses because I do not think they work. I am also not for this mentality that natural healing is evil and dangerous while rainbows hang over the pharmaceutical industry. The fact is that there CAN be dangers of ANY thing that goes into the body or any means used to remedy any kind of problem. That's a fact jack.

Oh. This was confusing - - you are against the critique of natural healing but earlier you said

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

For some reason I'm reading that as a contradiction.

I believe that our bodies 'automatically' process chemicals because of measurable and repeatable scientific proof which conclusively has proven that they do - Hg and Pb levels (for instance) fall over time. But I think maybe I misunderstood, and you're not saying that is false, but rather you're saying that eating a certain diet can potentially accelerate the body's processing of toxins. I haven't seen scientifically valid evidence to substantiate that yet; although I've seen lots of claims.

I am sure it is confusing to one who is on the attack. I am not against critique of natural healing, I am against the mindset that all natural healing is bad, all man made meds are good. This is not a hard concept to grasp. I do not support the use of cleanses. How ever that does not mean I do not support natural remedies or healing, and that does not mean that I believe ALL natural healing works, or is safe. You see, I have a brain that I actually think with. I use it allllllll the time. I tend to look for the best way to take care of my body on all fronts, not just one. There is a good and bad side to everything. Modern medicine had it's good and bad along with anything else.
And sure, our bodies DO process chemicals, but that does not render those chemicals harmless. Your body might process a diet pill, and that diet pill may cause you a heart problem. Processing does not equal no ramifications of said chemical.

wait this is a natural healing thread? The topic said "forever 9 clean detox"....how did we go from detox to natural healing..???????????????

This came from my reply to someone who went on to list a rather extensive critique of cleanses. My argument is that many do this with anything that a medical doctor did not prescribe. My point is no matter what you put in your body, natural or manmade, you are putting your body in the position to react. Dangers are on both sides.

BurtHuttz

Since you feel like your comment was taken out of context:


"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"."
False.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true."
Unfalsifiable claim.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?"
True.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle."
False.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling."
False.
"Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well."
Okay.
"Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much."
True.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals."
False.

Crankstr

NO

1223345

Since you feel like your comment was taken out of context:


"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"."
False.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true."
Unfalsifiable claim.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?"
True.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle."
False.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling."
False.
"Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well."
Okay.
"Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much."
True.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals."
False.

Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say.

FredDoyle

Since you feel like your comment was taken out of context:


"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"."
False.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true."
Unfalsifiable claim.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?"
True.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle."
False.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling."
False.
"Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well."
Okay.
"Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much."
True.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals."
False.

Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say.

They're your claims. The onus is on you to bring evidence. That's how critical thinking works.

jonnythan

Since you feel like your comment was taken out of context:


"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"."
False.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true."
Unfalsifiable claim.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?"
True.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle."
False.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling."
False.
"Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well."
Okay.
"Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much."
True.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals."
False.

Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say.

His claims are absolutely correct. The statements he's picked out are nonsensical, false, misleading, or otherwise problematic.

Employ that brain that you "use all the time."

1223345

Since you feel like your comment was taken out of context:


"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"."
False.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true."
Unfalsifiable claim.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?"
True.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle."
False.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling."
False.
"Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well."
Okay.
"Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much."
True.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals."
False.

Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say.

They're your claims. The onus is on you to bring evidence. That's how critical thinking works.

Already did. But you all are too busy ganging up for fun to pay attention. Enjoy. I said all I need to say. Anything else is really just beating a dead horse.

LoraF83

.........has been edited to suit the dogpile as usual........

Why would they care about editing?

ldrosophila

Detox...meth addiction?

jonnythan

Already did. But you all are too busy ganging up for fun to pay attention. Enjoy. I said all I need to say. Anything else is really just beating a dead horse.

You haven't proved anything at all. You've just spouted some broscience nonsense with no factual basis or biological viability.

It's always the same with you: a neverending stream of feel-good new agey vague nonsense claims.

magerum

beachlover317

Here's a thought: You do the MFP thing & tell your friend to do ahead and do her detox "thing". Tell her you will compare notes (and bodies) at the end of 3 months and then you can decide which works.

Losing fast? Rookies.

BurtHuttz

Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say.

"Our bodies do not "detox naturally"." - As mentioned earlier there are half-lives for the elimination of Hg and Lb in the human body. Alcohol is toxic and it is oxidized by the liver. No special diet or supplementation is needed. Most substances that can be put into the body, including medicines, have a half life during which period the body systematically eliminates them. No special diets needed. Thus, our bodies detox naturally.
"If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true." - This claim cannot be falsified as God is unknown and unknowable. We needn't drill down too far into theology to admit amongst ourselves that there isn't a perfect God diet.
"Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat?" - This is true.
"the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle." As mentioned above, the body processes toxins in essentially the same way regardless of whether one eats rhind or not, regardless of whether the oats were rolled and steamed prior to preparation or steel cut.
"Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling." Refined foods are not in and of themselves toxic. They can be associated with adverse health effects especially when consumed in very large quantities, but the refinement of carbohydrates prior to consumption or sugar itself is just very simple fuel; it is simply not toxic. Proving negatives is hard, but no one has ever, in the history of the world, died from sugar toxicosis.
"People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals." Again, regardless of the medium of storage, bodies - as previously stated - do naturally detoxify. We can certainly explore specific problems such as lead deposits in bones, which are very hard to address but similarly are of less threat because the deposits aren't freely circulating in the blood.

Heather032190

Our bodies do not "detox naturally".

Well someone forgot to tell this to our kidneys and livers and intestines. You call it detox, I call it pooping. :noway:

^this lmao this made me laugh.

as everyone wants to fight over who is right who is wrong, I think as long as you have natural bowel movements you should be A ok,lol :laugh:

ninerbuff

Apparently I'm full of toxins (from not eating whole foods all the time and believing in god), yet health markers don't show them. Am I deceived? Or do I just plain look good toxically?:laugh:

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

magerum

Actually it is not. This is my original comment that has been edited to suit the dogpile as usual. "Our bodies do not "detox naturally". If we were all on the perfect diet that God intended this would be true. Did you know that some toxins such as certain pesticides get stored in The your body fat? the only way to truly "detox" your body is to adopt a whole foods lifestyle. Any refined carbs or sugar or anything else, will just keep your "toxic" state rolling. Don't forget the environmental "toxins" as well. Our kidneys, liver, and bowels can only do so much. People who think we "detox naturally" are really not thinking about the real ways our bodies store certain chemicals"
If you continue to contaminate your body with what ever you want to eliminate, you will never get "cleansed". Our bodies would most likely take care of themselves if only we would allow it, as I did state. Cleanse and then go back to what ever you were doing. That is useless. That is like going on some wacky smoothie diet to lose 50 pounds then once the weight is off acting shocked that the weight came back when you go back to whatever you were doing before. This is the same idea, only it is applied elsewhere. You know you understand my point. You simply want to attack. I don't really care if you need to inflict yourselves upon me for the good of your own ego. I stand by my statement. Carry on.

ImpossibleGrl

Heather032190

This is what I have found from someone elses blog from Before this discussion came up:

Detox" is short for detoxification and detoxification is a natural process involving your liver and kidneys and there is nothing you can do to effect it. It is impossible to detoxify a human once the toxin is in the blood with the possible exception of kidney dialysis, kelation therapy, and other expensive medical modalities. Currently "detox" is a faddist word, relatively meaningless, and is used to express that which the users cannot otherwise express because of ignorance or because the expression would be patently false.

Detox diets, cleanses, and supplements don't work. There is no diet which will cause your body to get rid of toxins, heavy metals, poisonous by-products from smoking, drugs, etc. And cleanses for the purpose of weight loss don't work because they can only eliminate water and small amounts of waste which the body will replace very quickly.

Check out these reliable references. Listen to experts, not a random bunch of strangers of unknown credibility in this and other forums. Here's what the experts have to say about cleanses.

Article excerpt: "Colon Cleansing Has No Health Benefit, May Harm"
Ref: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/…

Article excerpt: "Although the reports show little evidence of any benefit, many studies reported side effects. These include cramping, bloating, nausea, vomiting, electrolyte imbalance, and kidney failure."
Ref: http://www.webmd.com/balance/news/201108…

Article excerpt: "The main concerns with colon cleansing are that it can: Increase your risk of dehydration, lead to bowel, perforations, increase the risk of infection, cause a rise in your electrolytes, which can be dangerous if you have kidney disease or heart disease."
Ref: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/colon-c…

Article excerpt: "fasting has many negative side effects, including all the symptoms that go along with malnutrition: insomnia, cravings, nausea, depressed mood, hair loss... the list goes on."
Ref: http://maddieruud.hubpages.com/hub/Maste…

Article excerpt:"Colon cleansing is a dubious and almost always useless procedure"
Ref: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/inde…

Article excerpt: "The human body can defend itself very
well against most environmental insults and the effects of occasional indulgence. If you ’re generally healthy, stick to giving your body what it needs to maintain its own detox system— a healthful diet, adequate fluid intake, regular exercise, sufficient sleep, and all recommended medical check-ups. Don’ waste your money...follow a healthy, balanced lifestyle instead."
Ref: http://www.lee-county.com/gov/dept/Human…

Article excerpt: "A day on a detox diet program probably won't hurt you, but there's little point in following these restrictive diets - and they can do far more harm than good, says Michelle May, MD,"
Ref: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/a…

Article excerpt: "Detox diets are a waste of time and money, say scientists"
Ref: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk…

ZoeLifts

Tell me more about how my poop don't matter.

1223345

Anyone is welcome to take anything that I say and twist, and distort my words, and continue to use them out of context. I don't really care. I have thicker skin than to lay awake at night worrying about it. I also don't feel like I can't resist continually arguing my point just to get the last word. Those who are doing these things know exactly who they are. Have fun!

BurtHuttz

Anyone is welcome to take anything that I say and twist, and distort my words, and continue to use them out of context. I don't really care. I have thicker skin than to lay awake at night worrying about it. I also don't feel like I can't resist continually arguing my point just to get the last word. Those who are doing these things know exactly who they are. Have fun!

I'm sorry, I took you at your word when you said: "Bring proof. That I am wrong about anything I say."

Edited to add - I used your words in their original context. I did not twist or distort anything but literally quoted, word for word. Additionally when you invited people to bring proof that your assertions were inaccurate, I honored your request.