Clean Bulking: Thoughts/Experiences?

Shock_Wave

Seems there's a terminology discrepancy. I thought the common usage of "Clean Bulk" is to bulk while minimizing fat gain.. Ideally to gain mass, but keep body fat percent roughly constant.

Read my edit. Your talking about body recomposition.

FootballGamer58

yeah maybe theres a terminology disconnect.

Shock_Wave

yeah maybe theres a terminology disconnect.

Read my edit. Your talking about body recomposition.

taso42

Seems there's a terminology discrepancy. I thought the common usage of "Clean Bulk" is to bulk while minimizing fat gain.. Ideally to gain mass, but keep body fat percent roughly constant.

Read my edit. Your talking about body recomposition.

body recomp i think more of keeping body weight constant but decreasing body fat percent

mmapags

You need a small calorie surplus, nearly flawless diet, and a spot-on lifting program. Frankly it's easier, and probably overall faster to "just" bulk, and the cut fat later.

Yup. All these plans that try to bulk without any fat gain just look like wheel spinning to me and don't really accomplish either with any degree of success.

Clean= healthy foods and not processed foods or high sugary foods i.e. doughnuts..etc
Bulking= eating at a surplus of calories.. Of course you are going to gain weight muscle and fat.

Nobody in this thread said without fat gain.

ETA: Now re composition diets are still possible but very hard, tedious, and slow(gain muscle lose fat) and it does peak out. To raise this peak its more effective with the assistance of performance enhancement drugs.

I had the same assumption as Taso. I very well may have misunderstood. I think of clean bulk and recomp as the same thing.

Shock_Wave

Seems there's a terminology discrepancy. I thought the common usage of "Clean Bulk" is to bulk while minimizing fat gain.. Ideally to gain mass, but keep body fat percent roughly constant.

Read my edit. Your talking about body recomposition.

body recomp i think more of keeping body weight constant but decreasing body fat percent

Yes it can be used this way too.

LolBroScience

clean bulking is mostly a myth, i normally hear this from people who want to get muscular but are afraid to eat more food. There is three types of eating.

Eating at a caloric deficit= weight loss
Maintainence= same
Eating at a caloric surplus= weight gain

Its not a myth.

a lot of people say that about myths

Not really.... ideally it is eating just slightly over maintenance so you do gain weight, but in a rather slow manner. What is the point of adding 4 lbs a month when you're only going to come out with 1 lb being muscle anyway?

Shock_Wave

Here is my example. This year instead of traditionally bulking to 230+ lbs I did a re composition diet that will end this Saturday. So far I have gained 2+lbs of muscle and lost several % of fat. I will know exactly how much this Saturday.

13 wk recomp. cycle
wk1 11/26/12 = 214lbs
wk2 12/03/12 = 216lbs
wk3 12/10/12 = 219lbs
wk4 12/17/12 = 220lbs
wk5 12/24/12 = 222lbs
wk6 12/31/12 = 224lbs
wk7 01/07/13 = 222lbs
wk8 01/28/13 = 219lbs
wk 9 02/04/13 = 218lbs
wk 10 02/11/13 = 220lbs
wk 11 02/18/13 = 219lbs
wk 12 02/26/13 = 217lbs

mmapags

Here is my example. This year instead of traditionally bulking to 230+ lbs I did a re composition diet that will end this Saturday. So far I have gained 2lbs of muscle and lost several % of fat. I will know exactly how much this Saturday.

13 wk recomp. cycle
wk1 11/26/12 = 214lbs
wk2 12/03/12 = 216lbs
wk3 12/10/12 = 219lbs
wk4 12/17/12 = 220lbs
wk5 12/24/12 = 222lbs
wk6 12/31/12 = 224lbs
wk7 01/07/13 = 222lbs
wk8 01/28/13 = 219lbs
wk 9 02/04/13 = 218lbs
wk 10 02/11/13 = 220lbs
wk 11 02/18/13 = 219lbs
wk 12 02/26/13 = 217lbs

What did the diet peice look like?

Shock_Wave

Here is my example. This year instead of traditionally bulking to 230+ lbs I did a re composition diet that will end this Saturday. So far I have gained 2lbs of muscle and lost several % of fat. I will know exactly how much this Saturday.

13 wk recomp. cycle
wk1 11/26/12 = 214lbs
wk2 12/03/12 = 216lbs
wk3 12/10/12 = 219lbs
wk4 12/17/12 = 220lbs
wk5 12/24/12 = 222lbs
wk6 12/31/12 = 224lbs
wk7 01/07/13 = 222lbs
wk8 01/28/13 = 219lbs
wk 9 02/04/13 = 218lbs
wk 10 02/11/13 = 220lbs
wk 11 02/18/13 = 219lbs
wk 12 02/26/13 = 217lbs

What did the diet peice look like?

There's a lot to it but my diet remained mostly constant other than a upping 10 or 20 cals or decreasing those cals here and there according to my weight gains or losses. Notice like I said how it peaks out...Then it drops back down. That's the course the re composition took me.

Shock_Wave

Like Matt and I said its not a myth and it can be done.

FootballGamer58

the idea is that you wont come out with that 1lb or muscle growth in both cases. overeating is the only way to ensure maximum muscle repair

Shock_Wave

the idea is that you wont come out with that 1lb or muscle growth in both cases. overeating is the only way to ensure maximum muscle repair

I have gained over 2+lbs muscle growth.
I have been in this game a long time and I will not cut so hard that I will lose it all.
Bottom line is that I gained muscle and lost a great deal of BF.
Remember protein is your friend.

FootballGamer58

also I am am in no means saying you cant gain muscle by eating very close to maintenance. Im just saying its a slower process. And the myth term to me comes fromt he fact that its usually used by people who dont want to gain fat but want to blow up with muscle

waldo56

If you're bulking, cardio should not be done.

Totally disagree.

I think cardio should be done, but it should be kept to the low intensity steady state variety. Very low recovery cost work, it keeps up your cardio fitness, and it burns fat as fuel at an unusually high rate, keeping gains cleaner.

You have to eat to overcome it, but that is no big deal usually.

OTOH, if you are bulking doing HIIT is about the worst possible thing you could do.

FootballGamer58

the idea is that you wont come out with that 1lb or muscle growth in both cases. overeating is the only way to ensure maximum muscle repair

I have gained over 2+lbs muscle growth.
I have been in this game a long time and I will not cut so hard that I will lose it all.
Bottom line is that I gained muscle and lose a great deal of BF.
Remember protein is your friend.

remember protien is not used exclusively for muscle repair.

Im also not really disagreeing with you. but I am saying clean bulk progress on pure muscle growth alone is a slower process than dirty bulking

Shock_Wave

also I am am in no means saying you cant gain muscle by eating very close to maintenance. Im just saying its a slower process. And the myth term to me comes fromt he fact that its usually used by people who dont want to gain fat but want to blow up with muscle

No myth you can do it but you will peak out in terms of muscle growth.

I agree Yyou cannot blow up big muscle doing a recoposition or cutting diet

Joey_TheGreat

in my experience, i have cleaned bulked and dirty bulked. while i was clean bulking, yes i did feel a lot better at the higher weight i achieved, but i didnt come back as strong as i did when i dirty bulked. <-- does that make sense? plus it always feels better to eat crappy tasteful food lol.

FootballGamer58

also I am am in no means saying you cant gain muscle by eating very close to maintenance. Im just saying its a slower process. And the myth term to me comes fromt he fact that its usually used by people who dont want to gain fat but want to blow up with muscle

No myth you can do it but you will peak out in terms of muscle growth.

I agree Yyou cannot blow up big muscle doing a recoposition or cutting diet

well put, i think we are in agreement. really jsut arguing over semantics at this point.

I think a clean bulk is better called a recomp to make more sense.

Shock_Wave

also I am am in no means saying you cant gain muscle by eating very close to maintenance. Im just saying its a slower process. And the myth term to me comes fromt he fact that its usually used by people who dont want to gain fat but want to blow up with muscle

No myth you can do it but you will peak out in terms of muscle growth.

I agree Yyou cannot blow up big muscle doing a recoposition or cutting diet

well put, i think we are in agreement. really jsut arguing over semantics at this point.

I think a clean bulk is better called a recomp to make more sense.

They way I see the diets is that there is a

Dirty bulk= eating over maintenance cals and eating every type of food healthy or not.
Clean bulk= eating over maintenance cals eating only healthy foods
Recompostion= eating slightly over and slightly under maintenance in a zig zag sort of way.
Maintenance= eating at maintenance calories
Cutting= eating under maintenance


So doing a clean bulk or a dirty bulk should yield the same results. Dirty does not mean its faster gains than clean. Its just healthier and more costly.

waldo56

There is a middle ground though.

Granted this is more applicable to beginners to bulking not those well into diminishing returns.

But a moderate surplus, 400-500 cal or so, 0.8-1 lb/wk gain, will be very clean for most guys in their first year or two of trying to gain.

Now nearing the end of my 2nd bulk, for both I gained at a 4:1 ratio muscle:fat (20 lbs total muscle gain), which means my BF% drifted upward very slow; it wasn't perfectly clean, but it was clean enough that I am the only one that could see the fat gain (with the aid of photos and measurements); cutting the fat gain off is a month long bulking break basically.

Shock_Wave

Sorry I am way off topic OP.

FootballGamer58

ahhh you define clean as the type of food you eat. shouldent matter though as long as you hit your macros for protien. thee is no real difference between clean and dirty bulking by your definition.

rlmadrid

Thanks to Shock and Matt. This thread was very informative and your 13 week breakdown really helped. I understand the difference much better now.

ETA: what was the overall bf% loss after 13 weeks?

Shock_Wave

ahhh you define clean as the type of food you eat.[/b]

Yes its the type of food you eat in the bodybuilding world.

thee is no real difference between clean and dirty bulking by your definition.

It shouldn't matter though but for some health nuts it does between clean and dirty eating.
&
In terms of gains clean or dirty eating they are about the same.

Shock_Wave

Thanks to Shock and Matt. This thread was very informative and your 13 week breakdown really helped. I understand the difference much better now.

Indeed you're welcome!

laurelderry

Sorry I am way off topic OP.

No worries

Shock_Wave

Thanks to Shock and Matt. This thread was very informative and your 13 week breakdown really helped. I understand the difference much better now.

ETA: what was the overall bf% loss after 13 weeks?

Will have that answer this Saturday.. That's when it ends.. I am excited to see them too.. lol

waldo56

ahhh you define clean as the type of food you eat. shouldent matter though as long as you hit your macros for protien. thee is no real difference between clean and dirty bulking by your definition.

True. Type of food doesn't play a huge role in fat gain.

I think the scale goes:

Dirty Bulking - Bulking with fat gain
Clean Bulking - Bulking with no fat gain
Recomp - Reducing BF% while maintaining a constant weight
Cutting - Losing weight

But there is a huge range of dirty bulking, from silly calorie intakes with huge fat and muscle gains, to smaller surpluses where fat gain is contained without significantly compromizing muscle gain.

Trying to bulk perfectly clean OTOH will big time slow down the rate of gains to the point that there just might not be any.

mmapags

Here is my example. This year instead of traditionally bulking to 230+ lbs I did a re composition diet that will end this Saturday. So far I have gained 2lbs of muscle and lost several % of fat. I will know exactly how much this Saturday.

13 wk recomp. cycle
wk1 11/26/12 = 214lbs
wk2 12/03/12 = 216lbs
wk3 12/10/12 = 219lbs
wk4 12/17/12 = 220lbs
wk5 12/24/12 = 222lbs
wk6 12/31/12 = 224lbs
wk7 01/07/13 = 222lbs
wk8 01/28/13 = 219lbs
wk 9 02/04/13 = 218lbs
wk 10 02/11/13 = 220lbs
wk 11 02/18/13 = 219lbs
wk 12 02/26/13 = 217lbs

What did the diet peice look like?

There's a lot to it but my diet remained mostly constant other than a upping 10 or 20 cals or decreasing those cals here and there according to my weight gains or losses. Notice like I said how it peaks out...Then it drops back down. That's the course the re composition took me.

Am I understanding you correctly? You would only vary calories 10 or 20 per day?