No More TDEE posts

tisha_rae

This is my last post about this for awhile, I’ve been blowing up the boards & posting about this all week.

I finally think I have figured it out – or at least what I think will work for me, and what I’m going to try.

I believe whole heartedly in the idea behind eating enough as to not slow down your metabolism “aka starvation mode” (no your body isn’t actually starving)

I had calculated my BMR, TDEE and 20% of TDEE, I upped my calories and changed my goals ( using 20% of TDEE)…but I was still confused – to eat or not eat back calories…everyone had a different opinion.

After hearing from everyone, reading a lot of information, and coming near to the edge…this is what I am going to do. I re-set my calorie goal to my BMR – 1495 per this site…

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

I will be eating back my exercise calories and trying my hardest to never drop below 1495 ( I need this just to function in a healthy way)

I am keeping in mind that if I go over – DO NOT FREAK OUT – so long as I am not OVER 20% of my TDEE which happens to be 1644.

Thus my calorie goal daily is at least 1495 & not over 1644.

I set my macro’s as well –

35% protein
45% carb
20% fat

I also watch my sodium (2500mg) & fiber(15g)

When I reviewed my diary after changing these goals it was very clear that I’ve consistently been eating under my BMR on 7 out of 9 days with or without exercise…
And that I need to be eating much, much more protein (never met goal).

I wanted to post this because it really did make me crazy and I know a lot of other people struggle with it too.
I’m NOT advocating this – just sharing.

If you really have your stuff together and see a problem in my theory please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.

If you are similar and want to be friends – add me.

In case you find this info useful;

I am 33, 5’5 and 160lbs w/ a goal of 135.

Oh, and one more article I found useful…

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/595473-why-the-scale-goes-up-with-a-new-workout-program-must-read

smiling_sushi

The only suggestion I can make is to up your fiber to 25g. That's the suggested daily minimum for women and is necessary when you're aiming for as much protein as you are.

blondie0922

I am trying to wrap my mind around the idea that I have not been eating enough. It is a hard concept to accept when it has been pounded into our brains to cut calories.

Scooby's site has my BMR at 1561, TDEE at 2420 and to lose one pound a week I should eat 1936. Looking at the numbers it makes sense that eating 1200-1300 calories is not enough but thinking about eating 1936 calories is hard to imagine. I am slowly trying to bump up my calories.

I sent you a friend request.

tisha_rae

Thank You!!!!!

AmyRhubarb

Great plan! But I would also say, try not to freak out even if you eat all the way to full TDEE, or over your 20% deficit once in awhile. As long as you're under your TDEE, you won't gain.

As the body adjusts to the new intake, things just get better and better, at least they have for me. I've been eating this way for about a year and had the best results during this time. My body is so much happier, fat and inches are coming off, and I've surpassed goal weight. Although I don't really care about the number on the scale anymore, but about how I feel, how I look, how clothes fit, etc.

Last week I was over on cals almost every day - some days all the way up to TDEE and over that once or twice. Over the weekend I had fish & chips & a nice ale at my favorite pub on Friday, burgers & hard cider on Saturday, and pizza on Sunday - and had a loss on the scale on Monday morning. :bigsmile:

This method works, just make sure you give it time, because it does take time for your body to adjust, especially if you've been eating low cal for awhile.

tisha_rae

Great plan! But I would also say, try not to freak out even if you eat all the way to full TDEE, or over your 20% deficit once in awhile. As long as you're under your TDEE, you won't gain.

As the body adjusts to the new intake, things just get better and better, at least they have for me. I've been eating this way for about a year and had the best results during this time. My body is so much happier, fat and inches are coming off, and I've surpassed goal weight. Although I don't really care about the number on the scale anymore, but about how I feel, how I look, how clothes fit, etc.

Last week I was over on cals almost every day - some days all the way up to TDEE and over that once or twice. Over the weekend I had fish & chips & a nice ale at my favorite pub on Friday, burgers & hard cider on Saturday, and pizza on Sunday - and had a loss on the scale on Monday morning. :bigsmile:


This method works, just make sure you give it time, because it does take time for your body to adjust, especially if you've been eating low cal for awhile.

Thanks Amy!!!!

My first 20 lbs came of easy, but I have been so frustrated trying to lose the last 25!!! It makes me feel hopeful that people like you have done this with great results! Can you give a guesstimate as to how long I might give it?

carlysuzanne85

I have been working on figuring this out as well! I started out doing the 1200 calories a day, only sometimes eating some of my exercise calories back, usually netting under 1000. It was not working. I was exhausted and spinning like a hamster in a wheel--getting nowhere. I saw the "in place of a roadmap" forum and calculated my TDEE and BMR and 20% below my TDEE. I've been striving to eat the 20% below TDEE every day now and I do go over sometimes if I'm extra hungry or had a big workout day, doing my best to not go over my TDEE, except on my cheat meal day I just did Scooby's calculator today and it has me about 150 calories more than I had previously calculate for TDEE-20% so I think sticking between those two numbers will hopefully be safe. (When I first calculated TDEE, I looked at "lightly active" though I think "moderately active" may be more accurate based on how much I work out and Scooby's calculator number was consistent with the "moderately active" number I had seen when I first calculated it.) I'm excited to be finding friends that are also using this method and are actually eating and losing weight in a healthy way--and working on being patient through the process! Am sending you a friend request

tisha_rae

I have been working on figuring this out as well! I started out doing the 1200 calories a day, only sometimes eating some of my exercise calories back, usually netting under 1000. It was not working. I was exhausted and spinning like a hamster in a wheel--getting nowhere. I saw the "in place of a roadmap" forum and calculated my TDEE and BMR and 20% below my TDEE. I've been striving to eat the 20% below TDEE every day now and I do go over sometimes if I'm extra hungry or had a big workout day, doing my best to not go over my TDEE, except on my cheat meal day I just did Scooby's calculator today and it has me about 150 calories more than I had previously calculate for TDEE-20% so I think sticking between those two numbers will hopefully be safe. (When I first calculated TDEE, I looked at "lightly active" though I think "moderately active" may be more accurate based on how much I work out and Scooby's calculator number was consistent with the "moderately active" number I had seen when I first calculated it.) I'm excited to be finding friends that are also using this method and are actually eating and losing weight in a healthy way--and working on being patient through the process! Am sending you a friend request

Added you!

carlysuzanne85

Also, I too struggled with whether or not to eat back my exercise calories when doing the TDEE-20% but then I figured that since the TDEE number takes my activity level into account that I shouldn't eat those calories back. (Like I said before, though, if I'm still really hungry after a big workout, I will eat back some or all of those workout calories so my net number is higher). Not sure if that's right but I'm going to try that for awhile and see how it works.

ndj1979

This is my last post about this for awhile, I’ve been blowing up the boards & posting about this all week.

I finally think I have figured it out – or at least what I think will work for me, and what I’m going to try.

I believe whole heartedly in the idea behind eating enough as to not slow down your metabolism “aka starvation mode” (no your body isn’t actually starving)

I had calculated my BMR, TDEE and 20% of TDEE, I upped my calories and changed my goals ( using 20% of TDEE)…but I was still confused – to eat or not eat back calories…everyone had a different opinion.

After hearing from everyone, reading a lot of information, and coming near to the edge…this is what I am going to do. I re-set my calorie goal to my BMR – 1495 per this site…

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

I will be eating back my exercise calories and trying my hardest to never drop below 1495 ( I need this just to function in a healthy way)

I am keeping in mind that if I go over – DO NOT FREAK OUT – so long as I am not OVER 20% of my TDEE which happens to be 1644.

Thus my calorie goal daily is at least 1495 & not over 1644.

I set my macro’s as well –

35% protein
45% carb
20% fat

I also watch my sodium (2500mg) & fiber(15g)

When I reviewed my diary after changing these goals it was very clear that I’ve consistently been eating under my BMR on 7 out of 9 days with or without exercise…
And that I need to be eating much, much more protein (never met goal).

I wanted to post this because it really did make me crazy and I know a lot of other people struggle with it too.
I’m NOT advocating this – just sharing.

If you really have your stuff together and see a problem in my theory please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.

If you are similar and want to be friends – add me.

In case you find this info useful;

I am 33, 5’5 and 160lbs w/ a goal of 135.

Oh, and one more article I found useful…

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/595473-why-the-scale-goes-up-with-a-new-workout-program-must-read

wait a minute..you believe in starvation mode, but then say you body is not actually starving...???????????????

Lets clear that one up. YOu would have to not eat for 72 hours to even see the slight beginnings of stravation mode...

On eating back your exercise calories. If you had calculated at TDEE for whatever activity level, the your excercise is already built back into TDEE and you do not need to eat them back.

So if you are were at 2500 for maintenance and wanted to eat in a 500 cal defecit you just eat 2000 cals a day and you are in deficit.

On your marcro settings your fat % seems low and your carbs seem kind of high ...you could bump carbs down by 5% and fat up by 5% ...but that is just my two cents on your macros...

your revised plan sounds a little complex. If you just set MFP at 20% less TDEE and not eat back your exercise calories that would seem easier to me...

SanteMulberry

bump

ecw3780

I too spent so much time trying to figure out how much to eat (and being really hungry as well). Then I realized if I wore something to track how much I actually burned every day (not just during work outs) that I could just eat 500 calories less than that. No more complicated math for me, just subtraction.

reddi2roll

bump

1ConcreteGirl

I don't know much, but I definitely DO understand TDEE.

From your original post, I wasn't sure if you totally understood why/why not someone might choose to eat back or not eat back exercise calories using TDEE-20%, so I just wanted to explain the reason in case it makes it easier for you to understand what you're doing.

There are two ways to calculate TDEE. You can (a) include your activity level OR (b) set your activity level at sedentary.

If you include your activity level, you WOULD NOT eat back exercise calories, because those are included in the calculation of your TDEE. If you do this, log your exercise as 1 calorie burned and it will not affect your net intake.

If you set activity level at sedentary, you WOULD eat back exercise calories, because they are not included in the calculation. If you do this, log all your exercise calories, and eat them back, resulting in the same net intake as the first method.

The net intake doing either of this is the same. I personally use the second method because I like seeing all my calories burned; it is motivating to me. If your exercise is at all inconsistent, week to week, the second method also makes sure you don't accidentally go over on calories for the week, because you don't have a set number of exercise calories accounted for.

Hope this helps!

michelle7673

I don't know much, but I definitely DO understand TDEE.

From your original post, I wasn't sure if you totally understood why/why not someone might choose to eat back or not eat back exercise calories using TDEE-20%, so I just wanted to explain the reason in case it makes it easier for you to understand what you're doing.

There are two ways to calculate TDEE. You can (a) include your activity level OR (b) set your activity level at sedentary.

If you include your activity level, you WOULD NOT eat back exercise calories, because those are included in the calculation of your TDEE. If you do this, log your exercise as 1 calorie burned and it will not affect your net intake.

If you set activity level at sedentary, you WOULD eat back exercise calories, because they are not included in the calculation. If you do this, log all your exercise calories, and eat them back, resulting in the same net intake as the first method.

The net intake doing either of this is the same. I personally use the second method because I like seeing all my calories burned; it is motivating to me. If your exercise is at all inconsistent, week to week, the second method also makes sure you don't accidentally go over on calories for the week, because you don't have a set number of exercise calories accounted for.

Hope this helps!

tisha_rae

This is my last post about this for awhile, I’ve been blowing up the boards & posting about this all week.

I finally think I have figured it out – or at least what I think will work for me, and what I’m going to try.

I believe whole heartedly in the idea behind eating enough as to not slow down your metabolism “aka starvation mode” (no your body isn’t actually starving)

I had calculated my BMR, TDEE and 20% of TDEE, I upped my calories and changed my goals ( using 20% of TDEE)…but I was still confused – to eat or not eat back calories…everyone had a different opinion.

After hearing from everyone, reading a lot of information, and coming near to the edge…this is what I am going to do. I re-set my calorie goal to my BMR – 1495 per this site…

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

I will be eating back my exercise calories and trying my hardest to never drop below 1495 ( I need this just to function in a healthy way)

I am keeping in mind that if I go over – DO NOT FREAK OUT – so long as I am not OVER 20% of my TDEE which happens to be 1644.

Thus my calorie goal daily is at least 1495 & not over 1644.

I set my macro’s as well –

35% protein
45% carb
20% fat

I also watch my sodium (2500mg) & fiber(15g)

When I reviewed my diary after changing these goals it was very clear that I’ve consistently been eating under my BMR on 7 out of 9 days with or without exercise…
And that I need to be eating much, much more protein (never met goal).

I wanted to post this because it really did make me crazy and I know a lot of other people struggle with it too.
I’m NOT advocating this – just sharing.

If you really have your stuff together and see a problem in my theory please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.

If you are similar and want to be friends – add me.

In case you find this info useful;

I am 33, 5’5 and 160lbs w/ a goal of 135.

Oh, and one more article I found useful…

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/595473-why-the-scale-goes-up-with-a-new-workout-program-must-read

wait a minute..you believe in starvation mode, but then say you body is not actually starving...???????????????

Lets clear that one up. YOu would have to not eat for 72 hours to even see the slight beginnings of stravation mode...

On eating back your exercise calories. If you had calculated at TDEE for whatever activity level, the your excercise is already built back into TDEE and you do not need to eat them back.

So if you are were at 2500 for maintenance and wanted to eat in a 500 cal defecit you just eat 2000 cals a day and you are in deficit.

On your marcro settings your fat % seems low and your carbs seem kind of high ...you could bump carbs down by 5% and fat up by 5% ...but that is just my two cents on your macros...

your revised plan sounds a little complex. If you just set MFP at 20% less TDEE and not eat back your exercise calories that would seem easier to me...

Thanks for your response!

No, I do not believe in “starvation” mode – I DO believe that you can slow down your metabolism and a lot of people call that “starvation mode”

I had set my goal to 20% TDEE but I was consistently eating under that & under my BMR so I was nowhere close to my 20% TDEE, by setting my goal to my BMR I am better able to make sure that I am eating enough & I know that it’s okay to eat up to my 20%.

I just broke it down here because I know a lot of ppl have trouble with it.

I will check into your suggestion about the fat & carbs.

KenosFeoh

I settled at a similar conclusion, calories at BMR (an average over several BMR calculator values), and more calories if I exercise. My exercise routine is still too sporadic to do TDEE -20% consistently because my exercise habits are still too inconsistent to arrive at a steady activity level. I range from sedentary to moderately active.

Oh, and P.S: I think of "starvation mode" as "survival mode".

1ConcreteGirl

I settled at a similar conclusion, calories at BMR (an average over several BMR calculator values), and more calories if I exercise. My exercise routine is still too sporadic to do TDEE -20% consistently because my exercise habits are still too inconsistent to arrive at a steady activity level. I range from sedentary to moderately active.

Please read my post above.

If you calculate your TDEE using activity level of sedentary, you can eat back your exercise calories whenever you exercise and result in the same net intake as someone who has a set activity level.

bekdavis

bump

michelle7673

I don't know much, but I definitely DO understand TDEE.

From your original post, I wasn't sure if you totally understood why/why not someone might choose to eat back or not eat back exercise calories using TDEE-20%, so I just wanted to explain the reason in case it makes it easier for you to understand what you're doing.

There are two ways to calculate TDEE. You can (a) include your activity level OR (b) set your activity level at sedentary.

If you include your activity level, you WOULD NOT eat back exercise calories, because those are included in the calculation of your TDEE. If you do this, log your exercise as 1 calorie burned and it will not affect your net intake.

If you set activity level at sedentary, you WOULD eat back exercise calories, because they are not included in the calculation. If you do this, log all your exercise calories, and eat them back, resulting in the same net intake as the first method.

The net intake doing either of this is the same. I personally use the second method because I like seeing all my calories burned; it is motivating to me. If your exercise is at all inconsistent, week to week, the second method also makes sure you don't accidentally go over on calories for the week, because you don't have a set number of exercise calories accounted for.

Hope this helps!

YES -- I think so -- because I am pretty new and was struggling with this.

I did use "sedentary" in my settings. So it gives me 1500+/- a day, which bumps up automatically when I input exercise. Although I did enter in my anticipated exercise (5 days/45 minutes), that does not appear to be cooked into the calculation. I think that is what confuses a lot of people -- at least, it did me. So just to try to figure it out, I went back and zeroed out those predictions -- and the 1500+/- was still there.

So figuring out TDEE and subtracting 10% or 20% seems like it's useful for (a) a double-check on the numbers and (b) getting a number that's consistent every day, as far as calories, if you want that. As opposed to eating more on workout days.

I have seen recommendations that people eat back 'half" or some portion of their exercise bonus calories -- is that really just insurance against the calculated burn being overly high?

1ConcreteGirl

I don't know much, but I definitely DO understand TDEE.

From your original post, I wasn't sure if you totally understood why/why not someone might choose to eat back or not eat back exercise calories using TDEE-20%, so I just wanted to explain the reason in case it makes it easier for you to understand what you're doing.

There are two ways to calculate TDEE. You can (a) include your activity level OR (b) set your activity level at sedentary.

If you include your activity level, you WOULD NOT eat back exercise calories, because those are included in the calculation of your TDEE. If you do this, log your exercise as 1 calorie burned and it will not affect your net intake.

If you set activity level at sedentary, you WOULD eat back exercise calories, because they are not included in the calculation. If you do this, log all your exercise calories, and eat them back, resulting in the same net intake as the first method.

The net intake doing either of this is the same. I personally use the second method because I like seeing all my calories burned; it is motivating to me. If your exercise is at all inconsistent, week to week, the second method also makes sure you don't accidentally go over on calories for the week, because you don't have a set number of exercise calories accounted for.

Hope this helps!

YES -- I think so -- because I am pretty new and was struggling with this.

I did use "sedentary" in my settings. So it gives me 1500+/- a day, which bumps up automatically when I input exercise. Although I did enter in my anticipated exercise (5 days/45 minutes), that does not appear to be cooked into the calculation. I think that is what confuses a lot of people -- at least, it did me. So just to try to figure it out, I went back and zeroed out those predictions -- and the 1500+/- was still there.

So figuring out TDEE and subtracting 10% or 20% seems like it's useful for (a) a double-check on the numbers and (b) getting a number that's consistent every day, as far as calories, if you want that. As opposed to eating more on workout days.

I have seen recommendations that people eat back 'half" or some portion of their exercise bonus calories -- is that really just insurance against the calculated burn being overly high?

That's the only reason I would suggest anything like that, since TDEE-20% is ALREADY a significant deficit. Some people do not understand that TDEE-20% creates a deficit and they only eat back half their exercise calories out of fear that they are going to eat too much, which really won't happen with this method.

That said, I eat back 90% of my exercise calories most days and am right on target with my loss. I do have a HRM, so that helps things a bit, but if someone is going to protect against an overly high caloric burn, I'd say eating back 70% is better than 50%.

tisha_rae

I too spent so much time trying to figure out how much to eat (and being really hungry as well). Then I realized if I wore something to track how much I actually burned every day (not just during work outs) that I could just eat 500 calories less than that. No more complicated math for me, just subtraction.

Love it!

wibutterflymagic

It looks like you are right on the money!! I need more friends that believe in doing this the healthy way and not starving themselves at 1000 calories. Totally sending a friend request!!

tisha_rae

I don't know much, but I definitely DO understand TDEE.

From your original post, I wasn't sure if you totally understood why/why not someone might choose to eat back or not eat back exercise calories using TDEE-20%, so I just wanted to explain the reason in case it makes it easier for you to understand what you're doing.

There are two ways to calculate TDEE. You can (a) include your activity level OR (b) set your activity level at sedentary.

If you include your activity level, you WOULD NOT eat back exercise calories, because those are included in the calculation of your TDEE. If you do this, log your exercise as 1 calorie burned and it will not affect your net intake.

If you set activity level at sedentary, you WOULD eat back exercise calories, because they are not included in the calculation. If you do this, log all your exercise calories, and eat them back, resulting in the same net intake as the first method.

The net intake doing either of this is the same. I personally use the second method because I like seeing all my calories burned; it is motivating to me. If your exercise is at all inconsistent, week to week, the second method also makes sure you don't accidentally go over on calories for the week, because you don't have a set number of exercise calories accounted for.

Hope this helps!

Thanks so much for your input & clarification.

I knew I didn’t have to eat back the exercise calories, but with my goal set at 20% of TDEE I was consistently eating under my BMR….so setting my goal to that number helps me ensure that I eat enough.

It was just a better way for me to track.

8Sam12

I just used that site you linked to and it gave me these numbers:

BMR: 1744
TDEE: 2093
TDEE -20%: 1674

So my TDEE-20% is lower than my BMR. I eat back exercise calories as my exercise patterns can vary a lot depending on how much work I have to do (I'm a student so when deadlines are looming there's much less time) so I just put my activity level as sedentary.
I currently have my calorie limit set to 1400 (up from 1200 after reading the forums). Can someone explain to me what I should do considering my BMR is higher than my TDEE-20%? I'm a bit confused. And to be honest, I still can't quite imagine eating that many calories to loose weight...

1ConcreteGirl

I just used that site you linked to and it gave me these numbers:

BMR: 1744
TDEE: 2093
TDEE -20%: 1674

So my TDEE-20% is lower than my BMR. I eat back exercise calories as my exercise patterns can vary a lot depending on how much work I have to do (I'm a student so when deadlines are looming there's much less time) so I just put my activity level as sedentary.
I currently have my calorie limit set to 1400 (up from 1200 after reading the forums). Can someone explain to me what I should do considering my BMR is higher than my TDEE-20%? I'm a bit confused. And to be honest, I still can't quite imagine eating that many calories to loose weight...

Try for TDEE-15% instead, then.

The larger a person is, the more they can eat and still lose weight. Remember this is not a sprint; give it time. Try it for a month and then let us know how it goes

jonnythan

I knew I didn’t have to eat back the exercise calories, but with my goal set at 20% of TDEE I was consistently eating under my BMR….

What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.

My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.

slim422

Bump

BGM325

This is my last post about this for awhile, I’ve been blowing up the boards & posting about this all week.

I finally think I have figured it out – or at least what I think will work for me, and what I’m going to try.

I believe whole heartedly in the idea behind eating enough as to not slow down your metabolism “aka starvation mode” (no your body isn’t actually starving)

I had calculated my BMR, TDEE and 20% of TDEE, I upped my calories and changed my goals ( using 20% of TDEE)…but I was still confused – to eat or not eat back calories…everyone had a different opinion.

After hearing from everyone, reading a lot of information, and coming near to the edge…this is what I am going to do. I re-set my calorie goal to my BMR – 1495 per this site…

http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

I will be eating back my exercise calories and trying my hardest to never drop below 1495 ( I need this just to function in a healthy way)

I am keeping in mind that if I go over – DO NOT FREAK OUT – so long as I am not OVER 20% of my TDEE which happens to be 1644.

Thus my calorie goal daily is at least 1495 & not over 1644.

I set my macro’s as well –

35% protein
45% carb
20% fat

I also watch my sodium (2500mg) & fiber(15g)

When I reviewed my diary after changing these goals it was very clear that I’ve consistently been eating under my BMR on 7 out of 9 days with or without exercise…
And that I need to be eating much, much more protein (never met goal).

I wanted to post this because it really did make me crazy and I know a lot of other people struggle with it too.
I’m NOT advocating this – just sharing.

If you really have your stuff together and see a problem in my theory please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.

If you are similar and want to be friends – add me.

In case you find this info useful;

I am 33, 5’5 and 160lbs w/ a goal of 135.

Oh, and one more article I found useful…

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/595473-why-the-scale-goes-up-with-a-new-workout-program-must-read

This is really helpful. It took me a while to figure out how to do things correctly, if I would've read this post last week it would've saved me loads of confusion! (And research!) :happy:

1ConcreteGirl

I knew I didn’t have to eat back the exercise calories, but with my goal set at 20% of TDEE I was consistently eating under my BMR….

What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.

My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.

This is completely incorrect.

BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.

Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.

lilahk95

bump