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eating under your BMR has a more severe effect on these hormones than eating above BMR.
Any evidence to back up that claim? Keep in mind what the parameters would need to be: eating TDEE - 20% and never going below BMR versus TDEE - 20% and occasionally going below BMR. That's the comparison we're talking about here.0 -
Great plan! But I would also say, try not to freak out even if you eat all the way to full TDEE, or over your 20% deficit once in awhile. As long as you're under your TDEE, you won't gain.
This ^^ is good advice. I would also caution though that just because an online calculator says your BMR and TDEE are certain amounts, doesn't mean they are. Those are just population averages. Individual results may vary, so if it's not working after a while don't freak out, just tweak your plan.0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.0 -
You gained it back.
No, I didn't. Nice try though.
Your statement was "Every time I've lost weight..."
If you've tried more than once it's because you gained.
Yes. People sometimes intentionally gain weight while working out in order to build muscle mass. They gain fat mass at the same time, then they lose weight to get rid of the fat mass.
Even when cutting, it's looked down upon to eat below BMR.0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Wait, are you saying your body has enough "bmr energy" to sustain you for 40 days without adding "fuel to the tank"?0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Well stated. The car analogy is not very good. You'd need to use a car that has two fuel tanks - one represents food and the other represents body mass. The food tank is 5 gallons and the body mass tank is 50 gallons. When the food tank isn't being filled quickly enough, it makes up for it by taking a little of the body mass tank.0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
I'm glad this helped you - I didn't expect the huge debate. ;-D0 -
This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
Why is your TDEE so low? Mine is higher than that and I'm a chick
Granted I want to lose 25ish pounds
I'm
5'5"
155lbs
27y.o.
BMR 1466
Moderate exercise
TDEE is 2272
-500
Still puts me at 1772 / day on workout days to lose weight....0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Wait, are you saying your body has enough "bmr energy" to sustain you for 40 days without adding "fuel to the tank"?
Well say you have 30 lbs of fat mass. That's 105,00 calories.
If your BMR is 1500, you could lay in bed all day and eat no food for 70 days, living off the fat mass alone.
Obviously, you can't last that long as you need other nutrients, but that's how large the "fuel tank" is yes.0 -
You're already arguing with a better informed, more articulate person than myself. Nothing I could say to penetrate that she has not already said.
Good on her for having the patience to try to save others from your disinformation. I haven't got it.
So the answer is no.
So far no one has articulated a reason not to go below BMR if TDEE - 20% is below BMR. All we've had is some vague words like "it's what your body needs to survive."
There is absolutely no reason not to go a bit below BMR if you have been fairly inactive on a particular day. There's nothing magic about that number.
I have already explained this twice for you, thinking that you actually were looking for an answer rather than trying to spread the derp.
Unfortunately, as has been said, I'm afraid there is no cure for this particularly unexceptional brand of pertinacious misinformation.
Anyone who has a genuine question about TDEE/BMR is more than welcome to PM me and I will help you with what I know.
Again: what's the specific downside of eating 1650 calories on a day that TDEE is 2150, when BMR is 1728?
Please give a specific problem with this.
If I can lose weight at 1800 kcal/per day, why would I want to eat 1500 which is just under my BMR? I am in no rush.
Now IF, on the other, hand is a valid plan. Is this what you are thinking of?0 -
This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
Why is your TDEE so low? Mine is higher than that and I'm a chick
Granted I want to lose 25ish pounds
I'm
5'5"
155lbs
27y.o.
BMR 1466
Moderate exercise
TDEE is 2272
-500
Still puts me at 1772 / day on workout days to lose weight....
BMR is 1728. I work a desk job. I have occasional rest days, which are sedentary. Sometimes I don't get up to 2278 calories used in a day. No big deal. I eat TDEE - 500 every day to lose weight, and it works just fine.0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Wait, are you saying your body has enough "bmr energy" to sustain you for 40 days without adding "fuel to the tank"?
Well say you have 30 lbs of fat mass. That's 105,00 calories.
If your BMR is 1500, you could lay in bed all day and eat no food for 70 days, living off the fat mass alone.
Obviously, you can't last that long as you need other nutrients, but that's how large the "fuel tank" is yes.
Ok, this is silly. If I have 30 pounds of fat on me, I won't survive for 70 days without eating. I'm just going off of memory, but scientific studies show that a person can go 30-40 days at most. You also have to remember your body WILL degrade muscles and such, not just target fat. That's why it's not healthy. Sure, you can lose weight eating below your BMR, but it's NOT HEALTHY, that's what people are getting at that you're not getting.0 -
If I can lose weight at 1800 kcal/per day, why would I want to eat 1500 which is just under my BMR? I am in no rush.
Now IF, on the other, hand is a valid plan. Is this what you are thinking of?
IF must throw these people off their gourds.
I eat TDEE - 500 every day to lose weight. Some IF plans include an occasional fast day where you eat almost no calories! Some include days every week where you eat 500 or fewer.
I wonder what the "never below BMR ever" people would say about these IF plans, many of which have proven to be very successful.0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Wait, are you saying your body has enough "bmr energy" to sustain you for 40 days without adding "fuel to the tank"?
Well say you have 30 lbs of fat mass. That's 105,00 calories.
If your BMR is 1500, you could lay in bed all day and eat no food for 70 days, living off the fat mass alone.
Obviously, you can't last that long as you need other nutrients, but that's how large the "fuel tank" is yes.
Ok, this is silly. If I have 30 pounds of fat on me, I won't survive for 70 days without eating. I'm just going off of memory, but scientific studies show that a person can go 30-40 days at most. You also have to remember your body WILL degrade muscles and such, not just target fat. That's why it's not healthy. Sure, you can lose weight eating below your BMR, but it's NOT HEALTHY, that's what people are getting at that you're not getting.
No, of course you won't survive for 70 days, but you have enough energy stored in those 30 lbs of fat to last you the 70 days. That's all I'm saying.0 -
No, of course you won't survive for 70 days, but you have enough energy stored in those 30 lbs of fat to last you the 70 days. That's all I'm saying.
0 -
This whole thread has def helped me. I hope the "Road Trip" story was clear enough for those considering eating below BMR. My initial thought was that eating below BMR on occasion is no big deal if weekly averages are above BMR. The Road Trip story made me rethink that. WHen a car runs out of gas, it comes to a SCREECHING halt and nothing can make it run again except more gas. For fuel injected engines, you also need to do some damage repair. (Hubby owns a shop LOL). Perhaps it wouldn't do any damage or make a difference but why chance it? Healthy weight loss is the goal.
OP, I came to a similar conclusion as you. I set my cals to BMR about a month ago. Still struggling with the whole mental thing. I like to see cals burned so I eat back exercise calories. Last week, I ate over quite a bit and still lost a little. This week, I am starving! I also feel lighter. FOr the first time, I feel I am on the right track. I really feel like my metabolism has finally begun catching up. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. I would much rather be corrected now than find later I was wrong.
One other car comparison. I was talking to my daughter about HIIT. Hubby is a cardio buff. He does lift weights but puts more credence on cardio. He said that you have to get your heart rate up and keep it up - i.e. steady state cardio. He said HIIT doesn't make sense because when you turn an engine off, it's harder on it. That's why truckers keep their engines idling when they stop for short periods. It took me 2 hours but I did finally rebut! When you are driving your car at a steady state then rev the engine, your RPMs go way up and you burn more gas. HIIT is not stopping the engine. It is reving the engine, thus burning more gas (fat). I was proud of that since my hubby is ALWAYS right! He just laughed and had no rebuttal!!
The problem is that your body is not a car and the OP is probably carry 2 weeks worth of gas in her tank at all times (her fat reserves). Therefore nothing is coming to a screeching halt until you get to very low BF%. I'm at 13% and weigh 172 lbs so my body is carrying around something like 40 days of BMR energy. Plenty safe to occasionally eat below BMR as long as my daily deficit is not too high given the amount I need to lose.
Wait, are you saying your body has enough "bmr energy" to sustain you for 40 days without adding "fuel to the tank"?
Well say you have 30 lbs of fat mass. That's 105,00 calories.
If your BMR is 1500, you could lay in bed all day and eat no food for 70 days, living off the fat mass alone.
Obviously, you can't last that long as you need other nutrients, but that's how large the "fuel tank" is yes.
Ok, this is silly. If I have 30 pounds of fat on me, I won't survive for 70 days without eating. I'm just going off of memory, but scientific studies show that a person can go 30-40 days at most. You also have to remember your body WILL degrade muscles and such, not just target fat. That's why it's not healthy. Sure, you can lose weight eating below your BMR, but it's NOT HEALTHY, that's what people are getting at that you're not getting.
No, of course you won't survive for 70 days, but you have enough energy stored in those 30 lbs of fat to last you the 70 days. That's all I'm saying.
I also have enough strength to punch a baby and make it cry, doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do.0 -
I've been looking at several posts and this one seems to make the most sense at least at explaining TDEE. I ran my numbers through the recommended site and also came up with a TDEE-20% that is lower than my BMR.
BMR-1883
TDEE-2260
TDEE-20%-1808
I am a 30 year old female, 5"3', 248lbs.
From what I understand sometimes the TDEE-20 is lower than BMR so I should just go with BMR. MFP has me at 1270 which is crazy to meet (although I could have swore when I started it was 1310, I've lost seven pounds so maybe it decreased because of that). I have been having a lot of trouble meeting MFP but my calorie intake is actually lower than my BMR most days. Since "starvation mode" seems to be a sore term I going to say maybe my body has been in the "fat storage mode" due to lack of proper nutrition. Going to try increasing calories and see what happens. Hopefully it will cause more weight loss than 7 lbs in 6 weeks.
How do you change the calories for your diary? Also looking at how to add you as a friend. I don't have any friends, ok that sounds really depressing, and could use some that are trying to realistically loose weight and keep it off safely.0 -
This may have been covered - but unless you are very very sedentary, TDEE - 20% actually approximates BMR, within a small variance, for people who do are not that active...so it has a self governor baked in.0
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No, of course you won't survive for 70 days, but you have enough energy stored in those 30 lbs of fat to last you the 70 days. That's all I'm saying.
Wait, are you implying that just because he says I won't survive for 70 days, but I have enough energy to survive for 70 days, that he doesn't know what he's talking about?!?!0 -
No, of course you won't survive for 70 days, but you have enough energy stored in those 30 lbs of fat to last you the 70 days. That's all I'm saying.
my thoughts exactly...wow0
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