No More TDEE posts
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sounds like a sound strategy0
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TDEE is not something you can gather from a simple Online calculator. It's something that took me months to learn by trial and error, when I hit maintenance.
Eating at a deficit was easy for me, when I didn't have an exact number to hit. If I lost weight, I knew I was eating at a defiicit - I just didn't know how much.
When I no longer needed to lose any more, I had to increase my calories. As I did this, I lost another 10 lbs because I wasn't eating enough. When I finally increased them to 2000 per day, that's when the weight loss stopped, so I knew I had hit my TDEE.
Everybody's TDEE is different, and it's not something you can calculate by height, weight and gender.
TDEE is also not static. Not only does daily activity come into play, but dieting suppresses it. When you start to eat more, it increases.0 -
I am absolutely not doing that. I say do TDEE-20% every day. And it's OK if that's below BMR on days you're not very active.
/THREAD
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Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.0
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Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.0 -
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Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.0 -
Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.
No, I absolutely did not.
This is what I said:FYI, I've long used TDEE - 500 to lose weight. That number is occasionally below BMR when I have a rather sedentary day. It happens, and it's fine.0 -
. My thoughts exactly!! I say troll! It's not possible someone could be so stupid!You brought 70 pounds into this with your words.
I'm really, really hoping you're a troll account. Otherwise, holy **** we need to pay teachers more.
"Well say you have 30 lbs of fat mass. That's 105,00 calories.
If your BMR is 1500, you could lay in bed all day and eat no food for 70 days, living off the fat mass alone.
Obviously, you can't last that long as you need other nutrients, but that's how large the "fuel tank" is yes."
A person with a BMR of 1500 that has 30 lbs of fat mass has enough stored energy to account for 70 days of BMR. More, if you factor in the fact that their BMR will decrease with time.
That's a simple fact.0 -
Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.
No, I absolutely did not.
This is what I said:FYI, I've long used TDEE - 500 to lose weight. That number is occasionally below BMR when I have a rather sedentary day. It happens, and it's fine.
No?What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.
My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
You're promoting unhealthy habits.0 -
Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.
No, I absolutely did not.
This is what I said:FYI, I've long used TDEE - 500 to lose weight. That number is occasionally below BMR when I have a rather sedentary day. It happens, and it's fine.
No?What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.
My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
You're promoting unhealthy habits.
When MFP puts someone's calories at 1200 and its below BMR are they promoting unhealthy habits or creating an appropriate caloric deficit? People's situations are different.0 -
Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.
No, I absolutely did not.
This is what I said:FYI, I've long used TDEE - 500 to lose weight. That number is occasionally below BMR when I have a rather sedentary day. It happens, and it's fine.
No?What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.
My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
You're promoting unhealthy habits.
When MFP puts someone's calories at 1200 and its below BMR are they promoting unhealthy habits or creating an appropriate caloric deficit? People's situations are different.
Yes, MFP does promote unhealthy eating habits, that's why people always tell everyone to change their settings.0 -
Takes a mature group of people to start making fun of someone because he said it's OK to ho a bit below BMR on sedentary days when TDEE -20% is below BMR. Wow.
I cannot be arsed to read through the whole thread to be honest, so to start from scratch so to speak...are you saying that, using the TDEE - 20%, you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above? Just trying to confirm.
No, early on in the thread he argued that you should eat below your brm.
No, I absolutely did not.
This is what I said:FYI, I've long used TDEE - 500 to lose weight. That number is occasionally below BMR when I have a rather sedentary day. It happens, and it's fine.
No?What's wrong with eating under your BMR? If you don't burn 500 calories over your BMR, eating less than your BMR is fine.
My BMR is just over 1700, but most days I eat between 1550 and 1650. There's nothing wrong with that; I'm just not very active those days.This is completely incorrect.
BMR is the number of calories that your body takes merely to exist without doing additional work. Work does not mean exercise here, it means things as simple as walking around.
Always eat above BMR. ALWAYS.
... What? Why? You want a calorie deficit. You have to eat fewer calories than you use in a day to lose weight.
So what happens when your TDEE is only 300 calories over your BMR? My BMR is about 1728. What do I do when my TDEE is 2050? Eat 1728 anyway, instead of TDEE - 20% = 1640 (or, alternatively, TDEE - 500 = 1550)?
Why would I want to do that?
You're promoting unhealthy habits.
I wasn't trying to re-ignite anything here...at the end of the day, I hope everyone can agree that "you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above for the week"...which it should using TDEE - 20% unless you are completely sedentary on average or have done your calculations wrong.0 -
Quoting because Colin is HOT.
In because Naomi used the word "pertinacious" and that made me giggle with glee.0 -
I wasn't trying to re-ignite anything here...at the end of the day, I hope everyone can agree that "you should eat at least your BMR on average for the week, but some days you will be under it...as long as it averages out to above"...which it should using TDEE - 20% unless you are completely sedentary on average or have done your calculations wrong.
Absolutely. If your TDEE - 20% over the course of a week is below your BMR, you're clearly not getting enough exercise. It means you're basically sedentary every day.
However, if you're sedentary 2 days a week and active 5 days a week, it's OK to go 100-200 below BMR on the sedentary days and well above BMR on the active days if that's how your TDEE - 20% works out.0 -
bump0
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You're promoting unhealthy habits.
Let's be completely clear, since my previous posts appear to confuse you:
For weight loss, I advocate eating TDEE - 20% (or TDEE - 500) every day, whatever that number happens to be. If it goes below BMR sometimes, that's fine
I further advocate, for the vast majority of people, a heavy freeweight lifting program.
I further advocate, for the vast majority of people, a moderate amount of cardio of 2-5 hours per week.
Is that clear? Is that unhealthy?0 -
bump0
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Does anyone know what the average loss would be if you aim for TDEE-20%? How about if you aim for 2 lbs. a week? Wouldn't you be under BMR? I've seen people losing that much so I'm curious.0
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Bump0
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Does anyone know what the average loss would be if you aim for TDEE-20%? How about if you aim for 2 lbs. a week? Wouldn't you be under BMR? I've seen people losing that much so I'm curious.
It depends on your size, activity level etc as to whether you will be under. Generally TDEE - 20% is about 1lb a week.0 -
You're already arguing with a better informed, more articulate person than myself. Nothing I could say to penetrate that she has not already said.
Good on her for having the patience to try to save others from your disinformation. I haven't got it.
So the answer is no.
So far no one has articulated a reason not to go below BMR if TDEE - 20% is below BMR. All we've had is some vague words like "it's what your body needs to survive."
There is absolutely no reason not to go a bit below BMR if you have been fairly inactive on a particular day. There's nothing magic about that number.
If the answer was "no" I would have said "no." But, thanks for demonstrating my earlier statement of "no cure."
Also, please contact the military. I'm sure they'd like to study your brain pan to help in the development of future body armor. Impenetrable is a desireable quality in that line.
You haven't articulated a reason.
BMR is a theoretical value. It's the number of calories your body WOULD use if you stayed in bed all day. We don't stay in bed all day (usually). Therefore, BMR is a theoretical value.
It's not like the body says "ok, these calories I'm burning are for BMR, and these calories I'm burning are for stuff on top of BMR - so I'll take the calorie deficit from the calories on top of BMR but I better have enough calories left over for BMR!" It doesn't work that way.
The calorie deficit comes from actual energy expenditure. Your calorie deficit is a result of calories actually used in a given day minus the calories eaten in a given day. The calories you would have used if you stayed in bed all day are irrelevant.
BMR is useful as a starting point for determining TDEE. There's nothing magic about the number. There's absolutely no reason in the world not to dip below it slightly on days you weren't very active.
We already have the term "broscience." I think I'm going to coin a new term: "MFPscience." The definition is "common knowledge on MFP that has no evidentiary or logical basis."
^^ This may be one of the most intelligent posts I have read on these forums in the past 6 months! Makes perfect common sense to me. And if you think about it, there is no way you can know for sure what your BMR is, without having it professionally tested, An online calculator, which can vary drastically from a different online calculator, can give you an estimate based on certain factors, but it cannot give you an exact number.
Now as for TDEE, you can figure this number from experience, by logging your cals and exercise for several months, so you can figure this number more accurately. So take 500 off of your TDEE and you will lose a pound a week. No brainer. If that number puts you below the BMR number that Scooby or whoever says it should be, then the world will not come to an end.
Bottom line is that you are eating at a 500 cal deficit, which is what MFP recommends as a safe weight loss. People get too hung up on the 'never eat below your BMR thing'.0 -
Does anyone know what the average loss would be if you aim for TDEE-20%? How about if you aim for 2 lbs. a week? Wouldn't you be under BMR? I've seen people losing that much so I'm curious.
It depends on your size, activity level etc as to whether you will be under. Generally TDEE - 20% is about 1lb a week.
Right but then 2 lbs a week would put you below BMR. Am I correct? I am thinking that would get you arrested on the MFP forums?0 -
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I thought BMR was constant, and TDEE was the variable. BMR doesn't vary does it?
In other words, given an individual, their BMR is always the same, correct?
The other thing I want to point out is one of the diseases people suffer from is not thinking long term. No one does it. Example, "I eat below BMR and I'm fine". Another example, "they say smoking causes cancer, but I've been smoking for years, and I'm fine." There can be long term effects from bad decisions that don't seem to have any effect on you now. If you're curious, talk to someone with an ED.
I'm not suggesting your occasional dip below BMR is causing any harm at all, but the comment you made about, "I eat below BMR on some days and I'm fine" reminds me of what I said above.
However, what you didn't say initially that you are now saying is that your average is at or above BMR. You could have said that earlier and avoided pages and pages of silly back and forth. Nice trolling though. Good job dragging everyone through unneeded arguments.
Also, BMR is an estimate. Online calculators don't really know your BMR. maybe it is lower than you think.
QFT0 -
I thought BMR was constant, and TDEE was the variable. BMR doesn't vary does it?
In other words, given an individual, their BMR is always the same, correct?
No, BMR depends on weight so as you loose weight/fat your BMR sinks. Although of course, generally BMR calculators don't take into account body fat which makes a differences as muscle uses more energy. So as your weight or body composition changes, your BMR changes.0 -
I thought BMR was constant, and TDEE was the variable. BMR doesn't vary does it?
In other words, given an individual, their BMR is always the same, correct?
No, BMR depends on weight so as you loose weight/fat your BMR sinks. Although of course, generally BMR calculators don't take into account body fat which makes a differences as muscle uses more energy. So as your weight or body composition changes, your BMR changes.
A pound of muscle only uses about 6 more calories a day than a pound of fat. I was surprised when I learned this.0 -
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I thought BMR was constant, and TDEE was the variable. BMR doesn't vary does it?
In other words, given an individual, their BMR is always the same, correct?
No, BMR depends on weight so as you loose weight/fat your BMR sinks. Although of course, generally BMR calculators don't take into account body fat which makes a differences as muscle uses more energy. So as your weight or body composition changes, your BMR changes.
Of course, but it doesn't flucuate liek TDEE, right? All things being equal, it is constant.
BMR changes slowly over time depending a lot of factors.
TDEE isn't something that's static. It's the sum of that day's BMR and the calories burned from activity that day. So TDEE is different every day unless you literally do the exact same thing every second of every day.0 -
Does anyone know what the average loss would be if you aim for TDEE-20%? How about if you aim for 2 lbs. a week? Wouldn't you be under BMR? I've seen people losing that much so I'm curious.
It depends on your size, activity level etc as to whether you will be under. Generally TDEE - 20% is about 1lb a week.
Right but then 2 lbs a week would put you below BMR. Am I correct? I am thinking that would get you arrested on the MFP forums?
Not necessarily.
Someone who is very active can lose 2lb a week and be above their BMR. For example: say someone's BMR is 1,500 calories - they can have enough activity through exercise and NEAT to get that to 1,500 easily. So, a 1,000 cut will get them to their BMR, not below.
ETA: I am not saying this is a good idea as large deficits are an issue (context being applied of course) - just that it is possible.0
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