Calling BS on the starvation mode (plz no E/D rants)
Replies
-
Lets make it simpler mmkayyy?
You have two cars - a huge nice SUV and a small tiny corolla.
You lose your job.
You now live on unemployment.
Which car will you sell off first, if you really need to keep a car for as long as possible.
Think abaat it.0 -
Just look at my diaries and then look at my pics and tell me your logic still makes sense...I'm not trying to be egotistical or arrogant, but I've been doing this for some time and my experience proves your wrong...just saying bro0
-
I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
So I guess then If I start to diet ( wait I am), I will loose my physique and be left a blob on bones??? doesn't seem to add up bro....BTW I'm facing atleast 1000 cal deprivation on most days.....
You are a miracle child my friend.0 -
When i started losing weight i weighed in at 270. I starved myself and consumed nothing but water for 21 days and made it down to 240. I was thrilled n decided to try getting my body used to food again bc i felt like id die otherwise and after i ate 2 grapes it turned into fried pork chops and binging for 4 days. I was then depressed as i read the scale and seen i went up 10lbs. I then was 250 and ate 500 calories for quit sometime.then i got down to 195 and got pg. So i took a break from weight loss and enjoyed my pregnancy. Then after i had my son i was up to 217. I went back to a 500 calorie diet then that stopped working so is starved myself and went down to 170. I then gradually started eating.day one i ate 50 cals then day 2 100 calories then day 3 150 calories and so forth then once i was around 1000 cals for a week i started losing 2 lbs a week.so i was content and made it to 139 then i got discouraged bc i still wasnt skinny. So i started eating and got pg again n gained some weight then miscarried:( so i binged and now im 164 and praying i finish losing my weight this time0
-
Lets make it simpler mmkayyy?
You have two cars - a huge nice SUV and a small tiny corolla.
You lose your job.
You now live on unemployment.
Which car will you sell off first, if you really need to keep a car for as long as possible.
Think abaat it.
I'd find a new job and keep em both...horrible analogy0 -
Lets make it simpler mmkayyy?
You have two cars - a huge nice SUV and a small tiny corolla.
You lose your job.
You now live on unemployment.
Which car will you sell off first, if you really need to keep a car for as long as possible.
Think abaat it.
I'd find a new job and keep em both...horrible analogy
dont hate!0 -
There are ways to achieve huge calorie deficits, losing body fat and preserving muscle -- most notably, protein sparing modified fasts (PSMF). It's not especially complicated. It involves eating lean protein sources, taking a multivitamin, and supplementing with magnesium, potassium, and sodium. It's relatively easy to do for those who have been on a ketogenic diet for a month or more.
Alternatively, there is intermittent fasting and alternate day fasting.
If we were as fragile as some would have you believe, the species would have been extinct after 1,000 years. In fact, the sort of things I mention above are being discussed by molecular biologists and biochemists as a likely way to extend human life.
You're right to be cynical about group think.0 -
Before I go any further I want to say this, I know eating a low calorie diet is mentally unhealthy to some individuals, particularly those who suffer from eating disorders, and I respect the opinion of those who struggle with them. I am just talking from the perspective of someone with out one who has a mentally sound grasp on their body and eating habits.
This is probably one of the most controversial subjects on this site. I personally think that if you eat to little the only way your body can compensate for that is by slowing your base* metabolic rate down a bit, but quite frankly think it is impossible for you body to just say screw you, I'm gonna take all the food you give me and store it as fat! I've played around with my food consumption and exercise enough to know my own body.
It's a scientific fact that when a person goes with out food the body first uses any available carbs in the system, then the fat reserve's, and finally it starts to break down its own muscle tissue (mainly from voluntary muscles) to supply the essential organ functions with energy to survive. So that goes to say that starvation mode, in the sense of muscle wasting, is only obtained by complete starvation and complete fat reservoir depletion, only then I would think, the body would start to use critical tissue to survive.
So please someone put this hype to rest and try to convince me of the contrary. I wanna know how having too big of a caloric deficit while still having an above "very lean" b/f% is somehow making people more fat? It just doesn't make sense to me at all?
This is the way I understand it from what I have read. There is something called, "sarcopenic obesity" where the body will consume its muscle mass (because of too few calories) and yet preserve its fat stores reasonably well. It happens mostly to old people but, it could really happen to anyone who has a poor appetite and is extremely sedentary. It simulates the situation of those who have been well fed in the past but suddenly experience prolonged hunger. Women, because of the influence of estrogen (which always "wants" to preserve fat stores) will often have the frustrating experience of losing muscle as they diet while a large proportion of their fat deposits stay stubbornly resistant to budging. That is why exercise is crucial for everyone who seeks to reduce body fat. But too much cardio (which is catabolic) without resistance training (which is anabolic) can have a tendency to tear down muscle as well--especially if the caloric deficit is too large. Muscle takes a lot of calories to maintain--fat not so much. When the person is under too much of a calorie deficit, the body "assumes" that food is scarce and goes into survival mode. The body then "makes the decision" to get rid of that which takes more calories to maintain (saving the less "expensive" fat to supply calories to internal organs as a survival mechanism). It will ultimately burn the fat reserves up too, in order to survive, but it will dip into the musculature for energy long before that point is reached--especially if the person is not working the muscles.0 -
Before I go any further I want to say this, I know eating a low calorie diet is mentally unhealthy to some individuals, particularly those who suffer from eating disorders, and I respect the opinion of those who struggle with them. I am just talking from the perspective of someone with out one who has a mentally sound grasp on their body and eating habits.
This is probably one of the most controversial subjects on this site. I personally think that if you eat to little the only way your body can compensate for that is by slowing your base* metabolic rate down a bit, but quite frankly think it is impossible for you body to just say screw you, I'm gonna take all the food you give me and store it as fat! I've played around with my food consumption and exercise enough to know my own body.
It's a scientific fact that when a person goes with out food the body first uses any available carbs in the system, then the fat reserve's, and finally it starts to break down its own muscle tissue (mainly from voluntary muscles) to supply the essential organ functions with energy to survive. So that goes to say that starvation mode, in the sense of muscle wasting, is only obtained by complete starvation and complete fat reservoir depletion, only then I would think, the body would start to use critical tissue to survive.
So please someone put this hype to rest and try to convince me of the contrary. I wanna know how having too big of a caloric deficit while still having an above "very lean" b/f% is somehow making people more fat? It just doesn't make sense to me at all?
It’s simple.. Do what works for your body. Some may benefit from your way, others another way.
Everyone’s body is different when it comes to gains regarding cutting and bulking or just remaining lean. A low calorie diet will most definitely allow you to drop a few pounds.
Examples
Your TDE = 2000kcal
You cut 500kcal. TDE = 1500kcal
Your calorie reduction is fine for fat loss. Immediate reduction from 2k to 1500 will only benefit you for so long, you’ll always have to re-adjust your diet/TDE. I’d suggest slow calorie reduction based on personal experience. But yet again, I re-emphasise the fact that it all depends on your ‘own’ body.
If you aren’t losing strength gains via weight training, then you’re good. Otherwise, more than 500 calories = skinny fat bound.
Cals in v Cals out + moderation diet for your goals + weight training = Success. Time consumption of the calories aren’t important, as long as you get it in within the day/before 12pm
Hope that helps OP. I’m no expert at my age, but I’ll still attempt to contribute regarding my personal achievements & goals.
My TDE = 2100. I cut on p/f/c 35/25/40 - Cals 2700 ish - Genetic freak? :laugh: #truestorybro0 -
The reason you are retaining a good amount of muscle mass despite being in quite a large calorie deficit is because you are strength training and getting adequate protein.
I'd say you are a little low on fats overall and definitely low on fruit & vegetable intake. That is mainly related to overall health not fat loss and LBM preservation though.
With the amount of carbs you are consuming and your current BF% (in pic) I would be implementing some refeeds from time to time. (Take a look at www.bodyrecomposition.com for some good articles on that) Not only does it let your body know that you aren't dying but will also help a LOT with gym performance.0 -
The best explanation of "starvation mode" I've read:
http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/#starvationmode0 -
Here is a scientific study on the topic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf
Read it and you will see why so many people on MFP have no clue about what "starvation mode" even means or who it applies to. Of course underweight/normal weight people will starve much faster than a very obese person on an extremely low calorie diet. The obese person has an abundant food source that can be feed him/her for a very long time.Before I go any further I want to say this, I know eating a low calorie diet is mentally unhealthy to some individuals, particularly those who suffer from eating disorders, and I respect the opinion of those who struggle with them. I am just talking from the perspective of someone with out one who has a mentally sound grasp on their body and eating habits.
This is probably one of the most controversial subjects on this site. I personally think that if you eat to little the only way your body can compensate for that is by slowing your base* metabolic rate down a bit, but quite frankly think it is impossible for you body to just say screw you, I'm gonna take all the food you give me and store it as fat! I've played around with my food consumption and exercise enough to know my own body.
It's a scientific fact that when a person goes with out food the body first uses any available carbs in the system, then the fat reserve's, and finally it starts to break down its own muscle tissue (mainly from voluntary muscles) to supply the essential organ functions with energy to survive. So that goes to say that starvation mode, in the sense of muscle wasting, is only obtained by complete starvation and complete fat reservoir depletion, only then I would think, the body would start to use critical tissue to survive.
So please someone put this hype to rest and try to convince me of the contrary. I wanna know how having too big of a caloric deficit while still having an above "very lean" b/f% is somehow making people more fat? It just doesn't make sense to me at all?0 -
According to what I've read (Mn study for one) your body won't start eating muscle until your body fat is below a certain % (different % for men and woman). I do not believe in Starvation Mode. For one I've been eating low calories (and don't go turning me in for encouraging others to eat low because I NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL encourage someone to eat the way I eat) since I started my diet in January of 2012 and I've not had one side effect everyone keeps saying I should have had within a couple of months of eating low. 14 months in and my weight loss has slowed yes, but that's to be expected, but I'm still losing 10 lbs a month. My hair is not falling out, my nails are bad but they were bad before I started losing weight. I have tons of energy and I exercise at least 3 to 4 times a week (will be more once summer comes around again) I still have 80 to 90 lbs to go before I start maintance and strength training.0
-
Bump0
-
Lets think about it some more. mmmkay?
From bodybuilding forum, the body expends 8 calories to keep 1 pound of muscle and 2 calories to keep 1 pound of fat each day.
So when you start a regimen of severe calorie deficit, guess what the body will eliminate first? The muscle, which is more calorie intensive before it even gets to fat.
So a better strategy is to gain more muscle so that the body is burning more calories even when you are wasting time on MFP.I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
scientifically proven...
your body will eat up the fat first!
lb of fat is worth 3500Cals
lb of muscle is only 700Cals
not to mention fat is much easier to break down to energy than protein0 -
Lets think about it some more. mmmkay?
From bodybuilding forum, the body expends 8 calories to keep 1 pound of muscle and 2 calories to keep 1 pound of fat each day.
So when you start a regimen of severe calorie deficit, guess what the body will eliminate first? The muscle, which is more calorie intensive before it even gets to fat.
So a better strategy is to gain more muscle so that the body is burning more calories even when you are wasting time on MFP.I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
scientifically proven...
your body will eat up the fat first!
lb of fat is worth 3500Cals
lb of muscle is only 700Cals
not to mention fat is much easier to break down to energy than protein
haha...dont make me laugh bro.
Look up the difference between 'consumption' and 'expenditure'.
You need to CONSUME 3500 cals or 700 cals to gain a pound of fat or muscle, respectively.
Once you have it bro, it goes like this:
Now that you have the muscle aka SUV and the fat aka corolla, now your body needs to expend, key work here, bro, expend, 8 cals to maintain muscle and 2 cals to maintain fat.
Now, bro, lets say you are living off 200 cals, so now what?
You are stranded on a lonely island with no food and limited water, and no friends, now what.
So now your body is doing math and saying, gee whiz, last time we got stranded, it took my dad 3 months to find me. So if I have to sustain myself for 3 months, I need to get rid of the gas guzzler aka muscle.
You follow me bro?
So after 2.5 months, you got a nice tub of fat at the middle and scrawny shoulders. So when you get back on shore, nobody thinks you attractive.
Your welcome!0 -
You're fooling yourself if you think you can magically burn pure fat without losing muscle mass. And no, you are not building new muscle if you are dieting and aren't on the juice.0
-
Lets think about it some more. mmmkay?
From bodybuilding forum, the body expends 8 calories to keep 1 pound of muscle and 2 calories to keep 1 pound of fat each day.
So when you start a regimen of severe calorie deficit, guess what the body will eliminate first? The muscle, which is more calorie intensive before it even gets to fat.
So a better strategy is to gain more muscle so that the body is burning more calories even when you are wasting time on MFP.I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
scientifically proven...
your body will eat up the fat first!
lb of fat is worth 3500Cals
lb of muscle is only 700Cals
not to mention fat is much easier to break down to energy than protein
haha...dont make me laugh bro.
Look up the difference between 'consumption' and 'expenditure'.
You need to CONSUME 3500 cals or 700 cals to gain a pound of fat or muscle, respectively.
Once you have it bro, it goes like this:
Now that you have the muscle aka SUV and the fat aka corolla, now your body needs to expend, key work here, bro, expend, 8 cals to maintain muscle and 2 cals to maintain fat.
Now, bro, lets say you are living off 200 cals, so now what?
You are stranded on a lonely island with no food and limited water, and no friends, now what.
So now your body is doing math and saying, gee whiz, last time we got stranded, it took my dad 3 months to find me. So if I have to sustain myself for 3 months, I need to get rid of the gas guzzler aka muscle.
You follow me bro?
So after 2.5 months, you got a nice tub of fat at the middle and scrawny shoulders. So when you get back on shore, nobody thinks you attractive.
Your welcome!
youre obviously trolling0 -
Lets think about it some more. mmmkay?
From bodybuilding forum, the body expends 8 calories to keep 1 pound of muscle and 2 calories to keep 1 pound of fat each day.
So when you start a regimen of severe calorie deficit, guess what the body will eliminate first? The muscle, which is more calorie intensive before it even gets to fat.
So a better strategy is to gain more muscle so that the body is burning more calories even when you are wasting time on MFP.I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
scientifically proven...
your body will eat up the fat first!
lb of fat is worth 3500Cals
lb of muscle is only 700Cals
not to mention fat is much easier to break down to energy than protein
haha...dont make me laugh bro.
Look up the difference between 'consumption' and 'expenditure'.
You need to CONSUME 3500 cals or 700 cals to gain a pound of fat or muscle, respectively.
Once you have it bro, it goes like this:
Now that you have the muscle aka SUV and the fat aka corolla, now your body needs to expend, key work here, bro, expend, 8 cals to maintain muscle and 2 cals to maintain fat.
Now, bro, lets say you are living off 200 cals, so now what?
You are stranded on a lonely island with no food and limited water, and no friends, now what.
So now your body is doing math and saying, gee whiz, last time we got stranded, it took my dad 3 months to find me. So if I have to sustain myself for 3 months, I need to get rid of the gas guzzler aka muscle.
You follow me bro?
So after 2.5 months, you got a nice tub of fat at the middle and scrawny shoulders. So when you get back on shore, nobody thinks you attractive.
Your welcome!
youre obviously trolling
Thats an easy way to not admit you were wrong. Why would I be trolling?0 -
Lets think about it some more. mmmkay?
From bodybuilding forum, the body expends 8 calories to keep 1 pound of muscle and 2 calories to keep 1 pound of fat each day.
So when you start a regimen of severe calorie deficit, guess what the body will eliminate first? The muscle, which is more calorie intensive before it even gets to fat.
So a better strategy is to gain more muscle so that the body is burning more calories even when you are wasting time on MFP.I have scientifically proven to you that when faced with severe calorie deprivation, the body will first eliminate muscle. Please read that comment again. Your body will burn muscle to keep fat because its easier for it to maintain fat. Its simple math.
scientifically proven...
your body will eat up the fat first!
lb of fat is worth 3500Cals
lb of muscle is only 700Cals
not to mention fat is much easier to break down to energy than protein
haha...dont make me laugh bro.
Look up the difference between 'consumption' and 'expenditure'.
You need to CONSUME 3500 cals or 700 cals to gain a pound of fat or muscle, respectively.
Once you have it bro, it goes like this:
Now that you have the muscle aka SUV and the fat aka corolla, now your body needs to expend, key work here, bro, expend, 8 cals to maintain muscle and 2 cals to maintain fat.
Now, bro, lets say you are living off 200 cals, so now what?
You are stranded on a lonely island with no food and limited water, and no friends, now what.
So now your body is doing math and saying, gee whiz, last time we got stranded, it took my dad 3 months to find me. So if I have to sustain myself for 3 months, I need to get rid of the gas guzzler aka muscle.
You follow me bro?
So after 2.5 months, you got a nice tub of fat at the middle and scrawny shoulders. So when you get back on shore, nobody thinks you attractive.
Your welcome!
^^^Exactly! Classic textbook example of YOYO dieter's syndrome. Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.9K Introduce Yourself
- 43.7K Getting Started
- 260.1K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.8K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 415 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.9K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.6K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.5K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions