My experience going 'paleo'

CoachReddy

I don't mean to disagree with you but my husband who spent lots of time researching maintains that no you do not need to be worrying about calories, "deficits" and the like. This is part of my frustration/fear of it. Unclear rules and people seeming to be in direct contradiction with one another?

Can you help me understand why one paleo person would say one thing and another would say what seems to be the complete opposite?

So if I eat 10,000 calories per day of clean paleo food I won't gain weight.

Cool.

See what i'm getting at?

I don't know how you could eat 10,000 calories of Paleo food. That would be about 5 gallons of food. I know I can easily eat 10,000 calories of high carb food.

If I eat 2,000 cal / day of Paleo like stuff, I lose weight. If I eat 2,000 cal / day of high carb, processed food. I gain weight. I don't have to explain it, I just know it.

There is not a doubt in my mind that I could gain weight on a paleo diet. Ribs, for one - I could eat a slab at a time. For two, nuts and seeds are very high calorie and I could eat handful after handful if I let myself. While it's true that cutting out grains could cut a bunch of calories, adding in more fats would put me way over.

ETA: Three: homemade hemp milk is paleo, and I could drink a quart of that in one sitting, even if I leave out the honey, it's still over 600 calories per quart.

so what we've established is that you 1) don't understand paleo and 2) could use some more self control...

And we've established that you have no clue regarding the difference between "could" and "would."

The point is that it's possible.

it's not possible if you eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full and use a modicum of common sense.

CoachReddy

I hate the term paleo/primal. The food you eat today, no matter how natural or organic it is, in no way resembles the food eaten during the paleo epoch.

it's a concept, not meant to be taken literally. of course it's not the same. but it's a helluva lot closer than the SAD

ElaineRN100

Tried Paleo several years ago but have gradually slipped back into the "bad" habits. Like others I don't like to say I'll never eat a certain food group again. Paleo does have some good points though. For myself I just need to learn moderation. I work for an ER Doc who says it all boils down to calories in , calories out regarding weight loss. You could loose weight eating ding-dongs as long as the calories were low. Your overall health would suffer though.

LeanerBeef

I just finished doing my Whole30 about 2 weeks ago. I was shocked - I lost 17 pounds in 30 days!! It really was surprising especially considering I was already down over 75 pounds at that point.

I was a by the book "kill all things" person on about days 4 -6 but after that I felt pretty good throughout. It seems like a lot of joint pain has subsided and I never have that bloated feeling my stomach.

I really learned a lot during that 30 days and have been continuing to eat paleo-ish since completing. It's not as hard as I thought. I always thought it was too extreme of a change of eating habits but I don't really feel that way anymore. It definitely requires a lot more cooking and planning but it is sustainable for me.

caribougal

I hate the term paleo/primal. The food you eat today, no matter how natural or organic it is, in no way resembles the food eaten during the paleo epoch.

Very true. It's pretty impossible to replicate a paleo diet unless you're living truly as a hunter/gatherer with an indigenous group of people. It's not meant to be a historical reenactment. The basic principles serve as a framework for healthy choices.

So people hate using the term paleo/primal, they switch to saying "eating clean", and they still get denigrated on the boards. Because people like to argue semantics while ignoring the larger points being made.

caribougal

I just finished doing my Whole30 about 2 weeks ago. I was shocked - I lost 17 pounds in 30 days!! It really was surprising especially considering I was already down over 75 pounds at that point.

I was a by the book "kill all things" person on about days 4 -6 but after that I felt pretty good throughout. It seems like a lot of joint pain has subsided and I never have that bloated feeling my stomach.

I really learned a lot during that 30 days and have been continuing to eat paleo-ish since completing. It's not as hard as I thought. I always thought it was too extreme of a change of eating habits but I don't really feel that way anymore. It definitely requires a lot more cooking and planning but it is sustainable for me.

Beef! I love you, man.

CoachReddy

I hate the term paleo/primal. The food you eat today, no matter how natural or organic it is, in no way resembles the food eaten during the paleo epoch.

Very true. It's pretty impossible to replicate a paleo diet unless you're living truly as a hunter/gatherer with an indigenous group of people. It's not meant to be a historical reenactment. The basic principles serve as a framework for healthy choices.

So people hate using the term paleo/primal, they switch to saying "eating clean", and they still get denigrated on the boards. Because people like to argue semantics while ignoring the larger points being made.

what would you all prefer us call it?

it's a silly argument because the primal/paleo style of eating is the closest we can get in 2013 to eating the way our ancestors did. who gives a crap whether it's factually 100% accurate? why does that matter?

EDIT: I'm more directing this at the other posters and not you so much, because I agree completely that the arguing of semantics is ridiculous.

ShrinkinMel

Just my opinion but eating meat and veggies and fruits it would be mighty hard for most people to exceed their calories. Also the time frame from where they are pulling this type of eating people were A LOT more active having to garden, hunt, or forage for their food and water.

But to me sustaining that would be hard. I don't care for meat much(but kudos for following the palm size portion a lot of people fill up on meat) and without beans I'd be low on protein and iron and stuff probably.

Congrats if its something that's your passion to change forever go for it.

caribougal

I hate the term paleo/primal. The food you eat today, no matter how natural or organic it is, in no way resembles the food eaten during the paleo epoch.

Very true. It's pretty impossible to replicate a paleo diet unless you're living truly as a hunter/gatherer with an indigenous group of people. It's not meant to be a historical reenactment. The basic principles serve as a framework for healthy choices.

So people hate using the term paleo/primal, they switch to saying "eating clean", and they still get denigrated on the boards. Because people like to argue semantics while ignoring the larger points being made.

what would you all prefer us call it?

it's a silly argument because the primal/paleo style of eating is the closest we can get in 2013 to eating the way our ancestors did. who gives a crap whether it's factually 100% accurate? why does that matter?

EDIT: I'm more directing this at the other posters and not you so much, because I agree completely that the arguing of semantics is ridiculous.

I personally call how I eat Paleo since that's the term that most people recognize, and I call it Primal to those who understand the difference. And then I explain the above point over and over again ad nauseum.

TheGlen

My family has had a lot of success with following the primal blueprint. Our kids have always been underweight and actually gained weight eating this way. As well, my wife and I lost nearly 50 lbs between us...before we got pregnant and weren't following the plan as closely anymore.

savithny

Of course calories still matter on paleo. It's not some magical way of eating. Despite being touted as the way being lean and muscley, it is absolutely true that cavemen and cavewomen could get overweight on the "paleo diet." It was probably much more unlikely than it is today -- but then, if you look at historical averages, most people did not get fat on a diet of agricultural products either -- until very, very recently.

Modern food processing and modern animal husbandry makes it very, very easy to acquire a lot of calories cheaply and eat them very, very fast. Many of the foods we have at our fingertips today were expensive, seasonal, or difficult to obtain even for our grandparents, and even more so for people prior to the development of agriculture. But people in situations where high-calorie foods were available definitely *did* end up overweight. Because - calories not needed are stored. Whether they come from wild-caught salmon or threshed emmer wheat.

As for "eating the way our ancestors did" -- I do ask people sometimes - do you think any of your ancestors had access to all those foods at the same time? Year round? Because humans spread out across the world by taking advantage of what they found in nearly every ecological niche on the planet - and survived because they came up wtih combinations available to them *where they lived* and *across the year* that kept them alive. But just because some hunter-gatherer ate some food someplace sometimes doesn' mean that it's healthy for a modern human being to eat unlimited quantities of it daily, in combination with other foods that wouldn't have been available to that hunter gatherer. That kind of "take random 'superfoods' from around the planet, combine them, and call it 'paleo' "is what prompts (discreet) eye rolling from me when I hear about it.

Defren

I eat low carb paleo/primal due to allergies and PCOS/insulin resistance. I've been eating this way for around 8 months now.

I think the first thing to clear up is that there is no one way to do paleo or primal. There are countless books, all containing different variations on the theme. We are all our own N=1 experiment, so it's really a matter of finding what works best for us as individuals. Some of us eat a lot more carbs than others. Some eat a lot more fats. Some of us eat dairy, some don't. Some count calories, others don't want or need to. Some of us favour gentle exercise, and others are CrossFit maniacs. Some are eating this way to ease serious health problems, and others are quite healthy. Some are losing weight, others aren't. There's a whole spectrum of different applications of "paleo" or "primal" ways of eating....I think of this as being similar to how there are different sorts of vegetarians and vegans.

I absolutely count ALL my calories, as they do indeed matter for me. I'm still overweight. I also watch my protein intake because if left to my own devices, I don't usually make it to where I need to be. Tracking works for me. I am hormonally challenged, though certainly not anywhere near as bad as I was, so I've got a different situation than someone who is already lean and in great shape hormonally.

I'm not in favour of dietary dogma of any sort--in fact, it creeps me out to no end! Similarly, I'm not a gung-ho paleo cheerleader, nor am I one of those people who calls it my "lifestyle". I eat this way out of necessity, otherwise I find myself kind of unwell. I do feel great these days, by the way! I have been rather successful at managing my blood sugar and clearing up a whole bunch of other issues I was having, which were mostly related to my food sensitivities.

I view paleo/primal ways of eating as a framework for how I choose my food, rather than a strict set of rules I must follow. The bottom line is that I eat what I know nourishes me and makes me feel good, what I can afford, and what I want to eat. I'm the only one who can be the judge of that.

The paleo/primal boom has been good for me in that I don't have to feel like a total freak because I can't eat certain foods. There are tons of great recipes, and lots of really interesting research and discussion about the nutritional aspects involved in eating this way, so I like that about it. However, I could really do without all the "caveman" discussion and the evangelical, judgemental weirdness that is demonstrated by so many of the paleo/primal enthusiasts.

This is how I view it except I do see it as a lifestyle, but I am T2 diabetic. This way of eating keeps my BG in check (I have normal HbA1c readings) and gives me energy, helps me sleep and eased a lot of health issues I have/had.

I don't think anyone should be badgered into any diet, people should try things out, find what works for them. While I eat Primal (I do eat dairy) I love the lifestyle, but that's only me, do what feels right for you!

I have to count calories, if I go above a certain amount my weight loss stalls, others in the Paleo/Primal community never count them, again it's all about trying and seeing how you get on, what is good for one person may not work for someone else.

Good luck and enjoy the 30 challenge. :-)

CoachReddy

As for "eating the way our ancestors did" -- I do ask people sometimes - do you think any of your ancestors had access to all those foods at the same time? Year round? Because humans spread out across the world by taking advantage of what they found in nearly every ecological niche on the planet - and survived because they came up wtih combinations available to them *where they lived* and *across the year* that kept them alive. But just because some hunter-gatherer ate some food someplace sometimes doesn' mean that it's healthy for a modern human being to eat unlimited quantities of it daily, in combination with other foods that wouldn't have been available to that hunter gatherer. That kind of "take random 'superfoods' from around the planet, combine them, and call it 'paleo' "is what prompts (discreet) eye rolling from me when I hear about it.

*sigh*... this is exactly what I was talking about. you're taking it literally instead of as a concept. and paleo has nothing to do with taking random "superfoods" from around the planet and combining them. I've never seen Luo Han Guo. Maca, or Yakon Root on a primal grocery list... lol

but if you want to eat those foods, what's wrong with that? hope your eyes don't get sore.

Shadowknight137

I think Paleo's awesome, but I find the drama associated around it embarrassing.
Yesterday I watched in breathless horror and mild amusement as a thread on "how do you eat butter" became a raging argument on a Paleo forum.

But like I said. It's awesome. It makes being a coeliac (like me) or any gluten intolerance easy - don't have to carefully read the back of every packet, because you don't eat pocketed goods anymore. Except for chocolate, and I think it's just me who goes through a pound of chocolate a week - not sure. It lets me let out my inner creative chef with "Paleoifying" recipes that I used to be able to eat, starting from scratch with whole foods; nachos, ice cream, pizza, brownies, you name it, I've done it, and if not, I probably want to.

I would recommend Paleo - or it's dairy-eating associate Primal, which admittedly I lean towards - to anyone. Depending on the individual and their goals, I would in most cases recommend it over calorie counting. Why? Because calorie counting can be stressful on some people, and I've seen enough here on MFP to see how people can seriously screw with themselves by cutting calories too low to make "progress", and it would honestly kill me to see people I care for deliberately starve themselves to "loose weight" quickly, so I'd always recommend a healthy, fairly balanced diet/lifestyle in that regard and allow the results to come naturally. And they will, unless the person gorges on high-calorie foods on nuts/nut-butters and the like, in which case it's simply a matter of saying "cut back on those a bit".
Hell, I don't even plan on counting calories my whole life - I only do it now because A) I'm trying to gain and I eat one meal a day and have to make sure I'm getting enough calories in. I'm pretty sure I can eye up how much food I can eat to maintain my weight currently, but will continue to count until and when I've hit my goal weight (60-65KG) and then see where things go from there. But yeah.

TL;DR: For someone who doesn't want to count calories and still see some good results, provided they don't gorge on nuts and the like, will find Paleo/Primal an excellent lifestyle, IMO.

WendyTerry420

I don't mean to disagree with you but my husband who spent lots of time researching maintains that no you do not need to be worrying about calories, "deficits" and the like. This is part of my frustration/fear of it. Unclear rules and people seeming to be in direct contradiction with one another?

Can you help me understand why one paleo person would say one thing and another would say what seems to be the complete opposite?

So if I eat 10,000 calories per day of clean paleo food I won't gain weight.

Cool.

See what i'm getting at?

I don't know how you could eat 10,000 calories of Paleo food. That would be about 5 gallons of food. I know I can easily eat 10,000 calories of high carb food.

If I eat 2,000 cal / day of Paleo like stuff, I lose weight. If I eat 2,000 cal / day of high carb, processed food. I gain weight. I don't have to explain it, I just know it.

There is not a doubt in my mind that I could gain weight on a paleo diet. Ribs, for one - I could eat a slab at a time. For two, nuts and seeds are very high calorie and I could eat handful after handful if I let myself. While it's true that cutting out grains could cut a bunch of calories, adding in more fats would put me way over.

ETA: Three: homemade hemp milk is paleo, and I could drink a quart of that in one sitting, even if I leave out the honey, it's still over 600 calories per quart.

so what we've established is that you 1) don't understand paleo and 2) could use some more self control...

And we've established that you have no clue regarding the difference between "could" and "would."

The point is that it's possible.

it's not possible if you eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full and use a modicum of common sense.

This is where you are confused. It's very easy to drink lots of calories that are paleo-approved. Drinking your calories does not satiate the same way as eating them. Checkmate.

WendyTerry420

I think Paleo's awesome, but I find the drama associated around it embarrassing.
Yesterday I watched in breathless horror and mild amusement as a thread on "how do you eat butter" became a raging argument on a Paleo forum.

But like I said. It's awesome. It makes being a coeliac (like me) or any gluten intolerance easy - don't have to carefully read the back of every packet, because you don't eat pocketed goods anymore. Except for chocolate, and I think it's just me who goes through a pound of chocolate a week - not sure. It lets me let out my inner creative chef with "Paleoifying" recipes that I used to be able to eat, starting from scratch with whole foods; nachos, ice cream, pizza, brownies, you name it, I've done it, and if not, I probably want to.

I would recommend Paleo - or it's dairy-eating associate Primal, which admittedly I lean towards - to anyone. Depending on the individual and their goals, I would in most cases recommend it over calorie counting. Why? Because calorie counting can be stressful on some people, and I've seen enough here on MFP to see how people can seriously screw with themselves by cutting calories too low to make "progress", and it would honestly kill me to see people I care for deliberately starve themselves to "loose weight" quickly, so I'd always recommend a healthy, fairly balanced diet/lifestyle in that regard and allow the results to come naturally. And they will, unless the person gorges on high-calorie foods on nuts/nut-butters and the like, in which case it's simply a matter of saying "cut back on those a bit".
Hell, I don't even plan on counting calories my whole life - I only do it now because A) I'm trying to gain and I eat one meal a day and have to make sure I'm getting enough calories in. I'm pretty sure I can eye up how much food I can eat to maintain my weight currently, but will continue to count until and when I've hit my goal weight (60-65KG) and then see where things go from there. But yeah.

TL;DR: For someone who doesn't want to count calories and still see some good results, provided they don't gorge on nuts and the like, will find Paleo/Primal an excellent lifestyle, IMO.

Good comment! It's very true that some people get so calorie-obsessed that they cut so low and damage their hormonal function. It's very sad.

I could do paleo except for the part about cutting grains, dairy, and peanuts. But I have lots of RLF who do paleo or primal and really love it.

LeanerBeef

I just finished doing my Whole30 about 2 weeks ago. I was shocked - I lost 17 pounds in 30 days!! It really was surprising especially considering I was already down over 75 pounds at that point.

I was a by the book "kill all things" person on about days 4 -6 but after that I felt pretty good throughout. It seems like a lot of joint pain has subsided and I never have that bloated feeling my stomach.

I really learned a lot during that 30 days and have been continuing to eat paleo-ish since completing. It's not as hard as I thought. I always thought it was too extreme of a change of eating habits but I don't really feel that way anymore. It definitely requires a lot more cooking and planning but it is sustainable for me.

Beef! I love you, man.

Ah Cari - I love you too! :bigsmile: You are a great mentor and source of information for all things paleo/Whole30! And even better, you're a great, encouraging friend!

neandermagnon

i'm almost positive our paleo ancestors drank alcohol. just sayin

Fermenting fruits and grains (making beer out of it) is one of our oldest means of preserving food. Last I knew, archeologists had found beer-making stuff in the middle east 1000's of years before the Egyptians, whose commoners drank beer as the largest calorie source in their diet (built the pyramids on the stuff).

it's most likely mesolithic, not palaeolithic. Palaeolithic people did not store any food for a long time. Starting to store foods for long periods was a mesolithic thing, which included storage of grains, which fermented, and this is probably how beer was invented/discovered.

Middle east neolithic was 10,000 years ago, so something happening thousands of years before the Egyptians in the middle east doesn't mean it was palaeolithic.

It's unlikely that palaeolithic people were able to produce alcohol, and additionally people from cultures that have remained as hunter-gatherers until much more recent times tend to have less ability to tolerate alcohol than those from societies that have been agricultural for millennia and have alcohol drinking as part of their culture, similar to the situation with dairy. ( And I'm not aware of any modern hunter-gatherers that do any kind of brewing of alcohol.... though some have other recreational drugs, e.g. hallucinogenic compounds from certain kinds of frogs in the Amazon or other hallucinogens, etc.)

So basically, beer is unlikely to be palaeo but magic mushrooms possibly are (not that I'm encouraging that kind of thing. I don't eat palaeo and I only eat non-hallucinogenic fungi)

CoachReddy

I don't mean to disagree with you but my husband who spent lots of time researching maintains that no you do not need to be worrying about calories, "deficits" and the like. This is part of my frustration/fear of it. Unclear rules and people seeming to be in direct contradiction with one another?

Can you help me understand why one paleo person would say one thing and another would say what seems to be the complete opposite?

So if I eat 10,000 calories per day of clean paleo food I won't gain weight.

Cool.

See what i'm getting at?

I don't know how you could eat 10,000 calories of Paleo food. That would be about 5 gallons of food. I know I can easily eat 10,000 calories of high carb food.

If I eat 2,000 cal / day of Paleo like stuff, I lose weight. If I eat 2,000 cal / day of high carb, processed food. I gain weight. I don't have to explain it, I just know it.

There is not a doubt in my mind that I could gain weight on a paleo diet. Ribs, for one - I could eat a slab at a time. For two, nuts and seeds are very high calorie and I could eat handful after handful if I let myself. While it's true that cutting out grains could cut a bunch of calories, adding in more fats would put me way over.

ETA: Three: homemade hemp milk is paleo, and I could drink a quart of that in one sitting, even if I leave out the honey, it's still over 600 calories per quart.

so what we've established is that you 1) don't understand paleo and 2) could use some more self control...

And we've established that you have no clue regarding the difference between "could" and "would."

The point is that it's possible.

it's not possible if you eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full and use a modicum of common sense.

This is where you are confused. It's very easy to drink lots of calories that are paleo-approved. Drinking your calories does not satiate the same way as eating them. Checkmate.

lol wut? you don't understand chess, m'dear.

can you give me an example of this? (remember, a modicum of common sense was a pre-requisite)