Salt Kills

Deipneus

All kinds of things are claimed to be unsafe on MFP forums without any scientific evidence at all let alone proof.

This isn't proof, but it is scientific evidence that all that salt people eat is killing some of them.

Headline: Harvard salt study shows 2.3 million related deaths worldwide in 2010
March 22, 2013 - 08:40 am

"Ten percent of deaths in the United States can be attributed in part to the overconsumption of salt, a new Harvard study says.

The death of more than 2 million cardiovascular deaths worldwide in 2010 were linked to excessive salt intake, the study says, and one in 10 Americans are dying from eating too much sodium."

http://wj.la/15zBUvP

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/03/21/1-in-10-u-s-deaths-blamed-on-salt/

aelfrice

Shame on ABC, NBC, CBS, and the rest of those who resort to sensationalism. "A team of Harvard researchers" is not a signifier of authority here. As the article linked to in the OP points outs--somewhere at the bottom, this review of other studies has yet to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. While being published doesn't make something true, it's reasonable to demand that findings this contrary to recent thought be scrutinized. To not do so is a red flag.

The article, obviously not written by someone with scientific training, seems to report preliminary findings as fact. I believe that the researcher believes his findings to be true but how can readers be served by reporting on the confidence level of an academic who somehow was able to convince every major news organization--it seems--to have this story ready on the day of presentation?

In other words, this story is anecdotal. People have a hard enough time wading through real findings of fact. Introducing BS can't help.

RainHoward

Life kills man. It's inevitable.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

Deipneus

aelfrice wrote:

Shame on ABC, NBC, CBS, and the rest of those who resort to sensationalism. "A team of Harvard researchers" is not a signifier of authority here. As the article linked to in the OP points outs--somewhere at the bottom, this review of other studies has yet to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. While being published doesn't make something true, it's reasonable to demand that findings this contrary to recent thought be scrutinized. To not do so is a red flag.

I'm impressed! I posted it and I didn't even read it that far myself! My original point was that people say things all the time on the forums, a lot of it with no evidence at all. I posted this because it has "some", but you're right, this is hardly final.

The last thing I should do is add to the lack of science in the forums. Hopefully, your addition will inspire people to be more discriminating.

whiteheaddg

...thought this might be a thread about garden slugs...

aelfrice

I'm impressed! I posted it and I didn't even read it that far myself! My original point was that people say things all the time on the forums, a lot of it with no evidence at all. I posted this because it has "some", but you're right, this is hardly final.

The last thing I should do is add to the lack of science in the forums. Hopefully, your addition will inspire people to be more discriminating.

In a rush to be more skeptical than thou, I forgot that you weren't promoting this story but were complaining that people take too much for granted. I didn't mean to criticize you; I was writing on autopilot. Thanks for being so gracious.

Deipneus

In a rush to be more skeptical than thou, I forgot that you weren't promoting this story but were complaining that people take too much for granted. I didn't mean to criticize you; I was writing on autopilot. Thanks for being so gracious.

Nah, thanks for the catch. I liked your first point that ABC, NBC, CBS et al sensationalize stories. I can't believe I got sucked into one of their stories myself!

SoDamnHungry

...thought this might be a thread about garden slugs...

In that case, beer also kills.

rml_16

Life kills man. It's inevitable.

Liar.

If you eat clean/paleo/avoid carbs and artificial sweeteners, you will not only live forever, but you will also apoear to be 16 years old even when you're a million years old.

Fact.

Matt_Wild

Salt significantly alters blood pressure. If expressed in scientific terms. A change of greater than 1.

However the word significant is not the same as the every day word.

From memory the study that the whole **** storm came from, showed a change from the average of 121/81 to 123/82 or something equally daft and unimportant.

UsedToBeHusky

There is power in statistics. This study can only be CORRELATIONAL because salt is not the direct cause of death, therefore, other contributing factors, for example potassium deficiency, cannot be excluded as contributing to those deaths.

taso42

Nobody gets out alive

RainHoward

Life kills man. It's inevitable.

Liar.

If you eat clean/paleo/avoid carbs and artificial sweeteners, you will not only live forever, but you will also apoear to be 16 years old even when you're a million years old.

Fact.

I don't want to live forever, I'd get absurdly bored.

_SusieQ_

doorki

All kinds of things are claimed to be unsafe on MFP forums without any scientific evidence at all let alone proof.

This isn't proof, but it is scientific evidence that all that salt people eat is killing some of them.

Headline: Harvard salt study shows 2.3 million related deaths worldwide in 2010
March 22, 2013 - 08:40 am

"Ten percent of deaths in the United States can be attributed in part to the overconsumption of salt, a new Harvard study says.

The death of more than 2 million cardiovascular deaths worldwide in 2010 were linked to excessive salt intake, the study says, and one in 10 Americans are dying from eating too much sodium."

http://wj.la/15zBUvP

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/03/21/1-in-10-u-s-deaths-blamed-on-salt/

Acg67

All kinds of things are claimed to be unsafe on MFP forums without any scientific evidence at all let alone proof.

This isn't proof, but it is scientific evidence that all that salt people eat is killing some of them.

Are people now slugs and dying from salt?

olDave

Ah yes....yet another "Chicken Little". SIGH.

theCarlton

I'd rather be dead than to have to live with my sodium within a normal range. *drinks soy sauce from the bottle*

iAMsmiling

So, salt contributes to high blood pressure. High blood pressure kills.

My blood pressure is great. I'll have all the salt I please.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

taunto

A study conducted have said that 100% of the people who've died in the past have drank water. Clearly water kills.

When I used to do boxing for hours, my coach would give me salt packets. You know why? Because I would collapse if I didn't took it.

Salt saves!

doorki

A study conducted have said that 100% of the people who've died in the past have drank water. Clearly water kills.

When I used to do boxing for hours, my coach would give me salt packets. You know why? Because I would collapse if I didn't took it.

Salt saves!

Matt_Wild

There is power in statistics. This study can only be CORRELATIONAL because salt is not the direct cause of death, therefore, other contributing factors, for example potassium deficiency, cannot be excluded as contributing to those deaths.

The study never said anything about potassium. It was on sodium.

neandermagnon

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

Matt_Wild

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

NO it is not. There has NEVER been any proof. Do actually know of the study in which it refers? There has been a casual link due to the study to which they refer.

In fact, in 2011, The study is published in the May 4 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association showed that in a 7 year study of just under 4000 people, mortality rates INCREASED in those with less salt in their diets.

"The investigators found that the less salt people ate, the more likely they were to die of heart disease — 50 people in the lowest third of salt consumption (2.5 grams of sodium per day) died during the study as compared with 24 in the medium group (3.9 grams of sodium per day) and 10 in the highest salt consumption group (6.0 grams of sodium per day). And while those eating the most salt had, on average, a slight increase in systolic blood pressure — a 1.71-millimeter increase in pressure for each 2.5-gram increase in sodium per day — they were no more likely to develop hypertension.

“If the goal is to prevent hypertension” with lower sodium consumption, said the lead author, Dr. Jan A. Staessen, a professor of medicine at the University of Leuven, in Belgium, “this study shows it does not work.”"

neandermagnon

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

NO it is not. There has NEVER been any proof. Do actually know of the study in which it refers? There has been a casual link due to the study to which they refer.

In fact, in 2011, The study is published in the May 4 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association showed that in a 7 year study of just under 4000 people, mortality rates INCREASED in those with less salt in their diets.

"The investigators found that the less salt people ate, the more likely they were to die of heart disease — 50 people in the lowest third of salt consumption (2.5 grams of sodium per day) died during the study as compared with 24 in the medium group (3.9 grams of sodium per day) and 10 in the highest salt consumption group (6.0 grams of sodium per day). And while those eating the most salt had, on average, a slight increase in systolic blood pressure — a 1.71-millimeter increase in pressure for each 2.5-gram increase in sodium per day — they were no more likely to develop hypertension.

“If the goal is to prevent hypertension” with lower sodium consumption, said the lead author, Dr. Jan A. Staessen, a professor of medicine at the University of Leuven, in Belgium, “this study shows it does not work.”"

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

Lupercalia

...thought this might be a thread about garden slugs...

So did I!

Matt_Wild

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=899663

tommygirl15

Nobody gets out alive

FredDoyle

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

This is what I don't understand. Why is my doctor, and sources like the Mayo Clinic still suggesting a lowered sodium intake?
An increase of 1 or 2 points is minimal when your BP has been 180/115 and is back to 110/70 through weight loss and medication.
My guess is that it has more to do with obesity. I read a thread here yesterday where it showed that obese people retained less water as a percentage than a person of normal body weight. Since increased sodium increases water retention, perhaps that extra water in an obese person is slightly more constricting for the vascular system, but for a person of normal weight it is inconsequential.