Salt Kills

taunto

A study conducted have said that 100% of the people who've died in the past have drank water. Clearly water kills.

When I used to do boxing for hours, my coach would give me salt packets. You know why? Because I would collapse if I didn't took it.

Salt saves!

doorki

A study conducted have said that 100% of the people who've died in the past have drank water. Clearly water kills.

When I used to do boxing for hours, my coach would give me salt packets. You know why? Because I would collapse if I didn't took it.

Salt saves!

Matt_Wild

There is power in statistics. This study can only be CORRELATIONAL because salt is not the direct cause of death, therefore, other contributing factors, for example potassium deficiency, cannot be excluded as contributing to those deaths.

The study never said anything about potassium. It was on sodium.

neandermagnon

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

Matt_Wild

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

NO it is not. There has NEVER been any proof. Do actually know of the study in which it refers? There has been a casual link due to the study to which they refer.

In fact, in 2011, The study is published in the May 4 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association showed that in a 7 year study of just under 4000 people, mortality rates INCREASED in those with less salt in their diets.

"The investigators found that the less salt people ate, the more likely they were to die of heart disease — 50 people in the lowest third of salt consumption (2.5 grams of sodium per day) died during the study as compared with 24 in the medium group (3.9 grams of sodium per day) and 10 in the highest salt consumption group (6.0 grams of sodium per day). And while those eating the most salt had, on average, a slight increase in systolic blood pressure — a 1.71-millimeter increase in pressure for each 2.5-gram increase in sodium per day — they were no more likely to develop hypertension.

“If the goal is to prevent hypertension” with lower sodium consumption, said the lead author, Dr. Jan A. Staessen, a professor of medicine at the University of Leuven, in Belgium, “this study shows it does not work.”"

neandermagnon

K. Low sodium levels can kill you, too.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/375753-what-are-the-dangers-of-low-sodium-levels/

Point is...?

^^^^ this

moderation

although i can understand the OP's concern because some people do eat crazy high amounts of salt and it's damaging their health. I gain around 2lb in water weight after eating at a typical fast food place, some people eat that amount of salt at every meal, and along with a diet too high in calories, processed fat and processed carbs, low in fresh food, etc... that combination is killing some peole

On the other hand, IMO it is important for people to understand that *some* salt in the diet is vital... because when people get orthorexic about salt, i.e. avoiding every possible source of it, then start doing too much cardio (or even just on a hot day when they start to sweat more), you can expect some of them to drop dead from hyponatraemia. In fact I read of a case of this happening, he didn't die, but he collapsed out running and was ambulanced to hospital and almost died... he'd been systematically avoiding all salt, thinking it was the devil. And going running a lot. Bad combination.

So... moderation.....

NO it is not. There has NEVER been any proof. Do actually know of the study in which it refers? There has been a casual link due to the study to which they refer.

In fact, in 2011, The study is published in the May 4 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association showed that in a 7 year study of just under 4000 people, mortality rates INCREASED in those with less salt in their diets.

"The investigators found that the less salt people ate, the more likely they were to die of heart disease — 50 people in the lowest third of salt consumption (2.5 grams of sodium per day) died during the study as compared with 24 in the medium group (3.9 grams of sodium per day) and 10 in the highest salt consumption group (6.0 grams of sodium per day). And while those eating the most salt had, on average, a slight increase in systolic blood pressure — a 1.71-millimeter increase in pressure for each 2.5-gram increase in sodium per day — they were no more likely to develop hypertension.

“If the goal is to prevent hypertension” with lower sodium consumption, said the lead author, Dr. Jan A. Staessen, a professor of medicine at the University of Leuven, in Belgium, “this study shows it does not work.”"

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

Lupercalia

...thought this might be a thread about garden slugs...

So did I!

Matt_Wild

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=899663

tommygirl15

Nobody gets out alive

FredDoyle

okay, can I read that study without paying for a subscription to that journal.... and also are there any other studies on the same thing? One study on its own usually doesn't amount to much, especially if there are many studies saying the opposite.

Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely interested to learn more, if my info is out of date, but need to read the actual study (and more if possible)

This is what I don't understand. Why is my doctor, and sources like the Mayo Clinic still suggesting a lowered sodium intake?
An increase of 1 or 2 points is minimal when your BP has been 180/115 and is back to 110/70 through weight loss and medication.
My guess is that it has more to do with obesity. I read a thread here yesterday where it showed that obese people retained less water as a percentage than a person of normal body weight. Since increased sodium increases water retention, perhaps that extra water in an obese person is slightly more constricting for the vascular system, but for a person of normal weight it is inconsequential.

60x60

I envy those of you who can enjoy salt. Enjoy in good health!

However, there are situations where people do need to watch salt intake though. Based on drs. advice and my own records, I keep mine to 1500 mg because my blood pressure shoots up when I have much higher than that (I tracked my blood pressure and daily salt intake over a one year period and we are talkling significant spikes shooting up 30 to 40 points on the top and about 20 points on the bottom).

Stroke victims often survive the stroke but experience impairments to their life experience. So if your dr. advises you to moderate your salt intake because of high blood pressure, I'd recommend listening or at a minimum experiment with the impact of salt impact on your own blood pressure.

FredDoyle

I envy those of you who can enjoy salt. Enjoy in good health!

However, there are situations where people do need to watch salt intake though. Based on drs. advice and my own records, I keep mine to 1500 mg because my blood pressure shoots up when I have much higher than that (I tracked my blood pressure and daily salt intake over a one year period and we are talkling significant spikes shooting up 30 to 40 points on the top and about 20 points on the bottom).

Stroke victims often survive the stroke but experience impairments to their life experience. So if your dr. advises you to moderate your salt intake because of high blood pressure, I'd recommend listening or at a minimum experiment with the impact of salt impact on your own blood pressure.

This is the thing. You may be a statistical outlier, ie. sodium sensitive genetically. If you don't mind me asking, are you obese or overweight?
I monitor my BP and salt intake daily. Since I have been a normal weight, an increase in sodium intake hasn't affected by BP.
Over refreshment with alcohol has though...

jayche

100% of people who die/have died also breathe oxygen, therefore should all stop breathing.

FredDoyle

100% of people who die/have died also breathe oxygen, therefore should all stop breathing.

Sorry, but that's a silly analogy for people investigating a serious issue. This isn't about cleanses or aspartame.

60x60

I have a family history of strokes on my father's side.

I was obese, but have lost between 10-12 pounds over the last nine years and my BMI now has me at the high end of normal. I am the most fit I have been in my entire life. Alas, still my blood pressure shoots up when I have too much salt. I love salt so I have experimented with a good blood pressure machine and good records of food intake and exercise and, sadly, all my charts and graphs make it eminently clear that I should avoid salt. Note I am not trying to draw conclusions for anyone else.

jayche

100% of people who die/have died also breathe oxygen, therefore should all stop breathing.

Sorry, but that's a silly analogy for people investigating a serious issue. This isn't about cleanses or aspartame.

A serious issue? As serious as a correlation = causation argument can get anyway.

ripemango

the poison is the dose - not the substance

DaniH826

I believe everything that people tell me who are trying to sell me a product or justify their position in life.

60x60

That everybody dies does not exclude the fact that critical thinking and good judgment are important in approaching ones own health issues, in this instance for me the issue is the relationship of salt intake to my blood pressure management.

I read the MFP posts to be exposed to new ideas, new perspectives and to have fodder to re-evaluate and re-calibrate my own approach to good health (okay, sometimes as entertainment or inspiration). I have learned a lot from some thoughtful intelligent people, I have learned a lot from some debates; but I do not cede my own informed decision making about my health to the forum contributors.

FredDoyle

I believe everything that people tell me who are trying to sell me a product or justify their position in life.

I don't understand this comment at all. Is the facetiousness referring to the big salt companies, or that big government is trying to take away your god given salt. :ohwell:

And jayche yes, we are trying to sort out the correlation causation issue because doctors and respected agencies are saying that we should reduce sodium intake in general. This isn't some wellness centre telling us that we should cleanse our toxins.