Assistance lifts - good or bad??
ChocoCheeseaholic
Posts: 55 Member
I'm on week 2 of Starting Strength and the author is big on just keeping it to the 5 compound lifts (squat, deadlift, press, bench press, power clean). He does given some assistance lifts but recommends sticking to the compounds for quite a while. I get that compound lifts are the shiznizzle and have no intention of stopping those. But the target audience for this book is 18-30 y/o males who he expects to eat 3500+ calories - not me. The book is a great starting point but I'm wondering how to make a bit more well-rounded of a workout. Biceps and calves in particular seem under represented.
So - thoughts? Should I split into more traditional days of chest & tris, back & glutes, biceps & shoulders? Anyone have a routine they really like?
So - thoughts? Should I split into more traditional days of chest & tris, back & glutes, biceps & shoulders? Anyone have a routine they really like?
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Replies
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I thought this said "Abstinence Lifts"...and I was so confused.
Anyway, I can't help with this, but I'll bump it up for you.
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Stick to the compound lifts. Once you get more advanced, rip calls for dips and chin ups.
Although, you might like a program like GSLP better. It has roots in SS.0 -
Keep it simple. I have been lifting for 2 years and still stick to cthe compounds lifts....you still have everything to build....don't waste your time on assistance lifts0
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Your muscles want to be stimulated and need to be pushed to grow... one last rep with minimal assistance could make a difference over time. The problem is when the spotter is doing most of the lifting...0
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What's GSLP?0
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A typically spilt routine i generally like is Chest, Shoulders, Tri's on day, Back and biceps one day, and legs on their own. This seems to be a pretty well rounded routine. And I'm not huge into classifying any lift other than "compound" lifts as "assistance." I just call them exercises or moves. I think they're all important in their own right (for the most part).0
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Your muscles want to be stimulated and need to be pushed to grow... one last rep with minimal assistance could make a difference over time. The problem is when the spotter is doing most of the lifting...
I think you're misunderstanding. I don't mean a spotter assisting during a lift, but lifts other than the 5 compounds in SS (e.g. dips, bicep curls, pullups).0 -
Keep it simple. I have been lifting for 2 years and still stick to cthe compounds lifts....you still have everything to build....don't waste your time on assistance lifts
Yep.
When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
Right now, you should be focusing your energy entirely on the compounds.0 -
A typically spilt routine i generally like is Chest, Shoulders, Tri's on day, Back and biceps one day, and legs on their own. This seems to be a pretty well rounded routine. And I'm not huge into classifying any lift other than "compound" lifts as "assistance." I just call them exercises or moves. I think they're all important in their own right (for the most part).
Yeah I put together what I think is a reasonable split routine like you mentioned. I used the word assistance b/c that's what the author refers to them as in SS. I too think they're important, and am wondering if I'm doing myself a disservice by not incorporating more lifts into my routine besides the 5 compounds he suggests.0 -
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Yep.
When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
Right now, you should be focusing your energy entirely on the compounds.
[/quote]
What do you consider a low enough bf%? Personally, I don't want to get all that low b/c I'd like to find a balance between building muscle and keeping my boobs. Granted, some of that is genetics, but I'd rather "pop" from the beginning if that makes sense.0 -
Yep.
When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
Right now, you should be focusing your energy entirely on the compounds.
[/quote]
What do you consider a low enough bf%? Personally, I don't want to get all that low b/c I'd like to find a balance between building muscle and keeping my boobs. Granted, some of that is genetics, but I'd rather "pop" from the beginning if that makes sense.
[/quote]
This was @Lora... not sure why it didn't quote0 -
check out "New Rules of Lifting for Women" It focuses on the "Big 5" and gives some ideas on other lifts that compliment them, but doesn't go all the way to (what I refer to as) accessory lifts (like curls, tricep extensions, etc). I love the book and know others like it as well. It also has some good recipes in it as well.0
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When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
That would be isolation, not assistance.
If you have weak spots during your "big" lifts, then add in assistance lifts as necessary. For instance, if your hamstrings and/or glutes are weak during your squats, add ham-glute raises to shore up those weak spots. If you find yourself having trouble with your triceps during bench press, add some triceps dips.
If everything is running along smoothly, don't worry - for the time being - about assistance exercises.
However, if you really insist on doing some - work on pull-ups or chin-ups. Those will work your biceps very well. If you can't do pulls or chins, then you can do lat pull-downs until you build the strength to do pulls and/or chins.0 -
Yep.
When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
Right now, you should be focusing your energy entirely on the compounds.
What do you consider a low enough bf%? Personally, I don't want to get all that low b/c I'd like to find a balance between building muscle and keeping my boobs. Granted, some of that is genetics, but I'd rather "pop" from the beginning if that makes sense.
This was @Lora... not sure why it didn't quote
Well, I guess I meant that when you get to a certain level of lifting and a lower body fat percentage (typically in the low teens for women - when you start to have visibile abs) that's when people start worrying about isolating muscles. To produce results like larger biceps, more definition in the calves, etc.
The compound lifts will do plenty to make your muscles "pop" and give you definition.
And yes, I had my vocabulary mixed up - I was reffering to isolation exercises. Sorry for the confusion!!0 -
Assistance work is useful but is not required for a beginner. If you change the program to a bodybuilding split, YNDTP.
That might not be a bad thing, but just don't expect to get the same results as if you are doing the SS program.0 -
Stick to the program. Assist are just that...to assist with the main lifts. You only need them if you need to work a specific muscle to help with the main lifts.0
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I am doing starting strength as well. I am 36 and overweight. I am doing it on a calorie deficit and making good strength gains and losing weight. Granted they would be better at a surplus but I got enough fat on me. I am going to stick with the program till i maximize it and then move on to other things. For now i would alternate the deadlift with power cleans and pullups. That should work arms nicely.0
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When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
That would be isolation, not assistance.
If you have weak spots during your "big" lifts, then add in assistance lifts as necessary. For instance, if your hamstrings and/or glutes are weak during your squats, add ham-glute raises to shore up those weak spots. If you find yourself having trouble with your triceps during bench press, add some triceps dips.
If everything is running along smoothly, don't worry - for the time being - about assistance exercises.
However, if you really insist on doing some - work on pull-ups or chin-ups. Those will work your biceps very well. If you can't do pulls or chins, then you can do lat pull-downs until you build the strength to do pulls and/or chins.
I apologize, I think I'm using the wrong terminology and that may be confusing people. At this point I agree I don't need assistance lifts. I'm doing fine with the compounds so I won't waste my time/energy on the. However, I do think I might benefit from some isolation exercises in addition to the 5 compounds. In particular, biceps and calves seem to be underrepresented in SS. I also think I could use more abs. So... thoughts on that?0 -
The main compounds should be at the core of any program but I think most people can handle more volume. Doing accessory work can actually improve the big compounds by helping to strengthen lagging parts and improving mobility.
Watch the videos on youtube called "so you think you can squat" and he talks about identifying weak areas and exercises that can strengthen them.
Here is a program that I really like. The 5x5 programs remains the core of the program but adds in more core and accessory work.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1480360630 -
Assistance work is useful but is not required for a beginner. If you change the program to a bodybuilding split, YNDTP.
That might not be a bad thing, but just don't expect to get the same results as if you are doing the SS program.
I'm not sure I want to follow the program. My goals are not to continually increase my deadlift weight and become very strong. I recognize that the book is written for people who want that. I bought it because I knew it would be great for teaching form and getting me started. I've done that. Now I'm wondering if there is a better option with perhaps some isolation exercises that will help me achieve the goals I do have.
Thanks for understanding and not just jumping on me to follow SS as the holy grail of lifting.0 -
the compound lifts should hit all the major muscles. there is no right or wrong answer. Personally, I like to add isolation exercises after the compound.0
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Keep it simple. I have been lifting for 2 years and still stick to cthe compounds lifts....you still have everything to build....don't waste your time on assistance lifts
I agree with this0 -
All of your muscles are still being worked with the main compound lifts. With that being said, I don't see a problem with adding in some assistance work at the end of a workout. Keep the volume low (like 2 sets of arms at the end of a workout or something) and if you are carrying over fatigue into your workouts and progression halts, this should a place to cut back on.0
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I spend about an hour a week on accessory or iso lifts, compared to the 2.5 or 3 I spend on compounds. It's not necessary. Will it hurt you? No. Just don't forgo the important stuff for isos.
(Semi unrelated ditty- I knew a dude once who had gigantic biceps. JUST gigantic biceps. Everything else on him looked like a 12 year old. )0 -
When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
That would be isolation, not assistance.
If you have weak spots during your "big" lifts, then add in assistance lifts as necessary. For instance, if your hamstrings and/or glutes are weak during your squats, add ham-glute raises to shore up those weak spots. If you find yourself having trouble with your triceps during bench press, add some triceps dips.
If everything is running along smoothly, don't worry - for the time being - about assistance exercises.
However, if you really insist on doing some - work on pull-ups or chin-ups. Those will work your biceps very well. If you can't do pulls or chins, then you can do lat pull-downs until you build the strength to do pulls and/or chins.
I apologize, I think I'm using the wrong terminology and that may be confusing people. At this point I agree I don't need assistance lifts. I'm doing fine with the compounds so I won't waste my time/energy on the. However, I do think I might benefit from some isolation exercises in addition to the 5 compounds. In particular, biceps and calves seem to be underrepresented in SS. I also think I could use more abs. So... thoughts on that?
Squats will hit calves and bench (and OHP) will hit biceps to a degree. However, if you want more definition or more focus on biceps, there is nothing wrong with adding some iso work in, just be sensible and not add too much as it will impact recovery. Add them to the end of the workout.
ETA: chins are a good add.0 -
IMO, 99.9% of us should stick to the major compound lifts. Lift heavy 4 times a week, approx 60 secs between sets, with good form for less than 30 min. total, then some cardio and be done. The most important thing is nutrition! Eat well, be consistent and work hard, you'll see steady progress.0
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When you get down to a low body fat percentage and you start to worry about making certain muscles "pop" or are finalizing your definition, then worry about assistance lifts.
That would be isolation, not assistance.
If you have weak spots during your "big" lifts, then add in assistance lifts as necessary. For instance, if your hamstrings and/or glutes are weak during your squats, add ham-glute raises to shore up those weak spots. If you find yourself having trouble with your triceps during bench press, add some triceps dips.
If everything is running along smoothly, don't worry - for the time being - about assistance exercises.
However, if you really insist on doing some - work on pull-ups or chin-ups. Those will work your biceps very well. If you can't do pulls or chins, then you can do lat pull-downs until you build the strength to do pulls and/or chins.
I apologize, I think I'm using the wrong terminology and that may be confusing people. At this point I agree I don't need assistance lifts. I'm doing fine with the compounds so I won't waste my time/energy on the. However, I do think I might benefit from some isolation exercises in addition to the 5 compounds. In particular, biceps and calves seem to be underrepresented in SS. I also think I could use more abs. So... thoughts on that?
Squats will hit calves and bench (and OHP) will hit biceps to a degree. However, if you want more definition or more focus on biceps, there is nothing wrong with adding some iso work in, just be sensible and not add too much as it will impact recovery. Add them to the end of the workout.
ETA: chins are a good add.
actually, bench hits chest and triceps... the wider your grip- the more chest. the shorter your grip- more tri's. Also you could be hitting a little shoulders, especially on an incline0 -
IMO, 99.9% of us should stick to the major compound lifts. Lift heavy 4 times a week, approx 60 secs between sets, with good form for less than 30 min. total, then some cardio and be done. The most important thing is nutrition! Eat well, be consistent and work hard, you'll see steady progress.
You really can't say this when you have no idea what each individual's goals are.0 -
I'm not sure I want to follow the program. My goals are not to continually increase my deadlift weight and become very strong. I recognize that the book is written for people who want that. I bought it because I knew it would be great for teaching form and getting me started. I've done that. Now I'm wondering if there is a better option with perhaps some isolation exercises that will help me achieve the goals I do have.
Thanks for understanding and not just jumping on me to follow SS as the holy grail of lifting.
SS is a good program but it's not ideal for everyone... I didn't use it myself, although I've read the book at least 3 times and review occasionally. What are your specific goals? It's not bad to work towards them as long as you're not skipping something else that's more core. Be careful about completely changing a program, but generally adding a bit of assistance work at the end of your full body workout is fine. I would recommend rows and/or chin-ups for bicep work, and your favorite choice of calf torture machines. You also mentioned abs, and a strong core is never bad. Just keep in mind that every time you pick up the barbell for any of the major compound movements, your core is required to stabilize that weight. You might be getting more core work than you already realize!
While you may not be interested in getting very strong and always increasing your deadlift, doing them will mitigate lower back issues, increase core strength, and also help increase your bone density. For many people, building a good base of strength isn't a terrible idea. Once you have enough strength to move a decent amount of weight, you can move on to other goals - such as hypertrophy, explosive power training for an athlete, or endurance/conditioning type work. Having the strength gives the ability for you to explore any of those other areas more thoroughly, if that makes sense. This is one of the main reasons that a program like SS tend to be recommended to beginners.
Not trying to preach, just giving some food for thought.0
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