Side Effect of Vegetarianism?

mushroomcup

I went vegetarian in late 2004 and kept with it until early November, 2012 when I decided to add fish to my diet (for many reasons, but they're irrelevant to this).

Backing up a little, sometime during 2009 I began having extremely vivid nightmares somewhat sporadically. Off and on every few weeks, I'd go a week where every night, I dreamed about truly awful things. A lot of the dreams still haunt me a bit. >.>

Anyway, before I went pescetarian I had heard/read somewhere (don't remember where) that vegetarianism can cause a deficiency which can mess with sleep and dreams. I'm not sure if perhaps this is merely the placebo effect, but since I went pescetarian I've had only one nightmare like I used to.

So here's the question: does anyone know of any data or anecdotal accounts related to this? I have googled it, but I can't seem to find anything on it. I'd like to know if this is a coincidence or if maybe I was very low on something essential that my body needed.

Other potentially relevant things:
- I tried a bunch of different things to get rid of the nightmares including: stop watching/reading/playing anything violent (I like horror movies, so this sucked and didn't help one bit); stop eating late at night; relaxation exercises before sleep; sleeping alone; sleeping without any white noise; sleeping with white noise; foods that are supposed to calm you (chamomile, etc.); avoiding spicy foods; no screen-time close to bed; thinking about happy things before bed
- the nightmares seemed to happen whether I was stressed or not
- the nightmares tended to be very violent
- they stopped pretty quickly after I went pescetarian, and I've only had one since then (though I have had regular, run of the mill nightmares - being late to something, failing a final, etc.)

shoshannadancer

I'm thinking that it may just be coincidental. I just started being Vegetarian quite recently and I'm nightmare free despite my love of CSI right before bed :P

Aureilie

I was an ovolacto veggie for 7 years (no seafood) and never experienced problems with nightmares. I'm no longer a vegetarian but I still don't eat fish (except for the occasional sushi) and I'm still nightmare free.

haroon_awan

What?!

I'm not too sure whether it's been proved otherwise, but a study in 1989 showed that vegetarians had less bioavailable testosterone than non-vegetarians. But the total level of testosterone was very similar.

I'll get the reference for you in a minute.

Edit:

"Comparing total serum testosterone levels in omnivorous men to those on a vegetarian diet showed no differences, but in the latter group there were significantly higher levels of SHBG, leading to decreased levels of bioavailable testosterone. The kind of diet is most likely to influence the fraction of bioavailable testosterone, but not total levels of this hormone"

Available testosterone is the stuff that is useful.

Belanger A, Locong A, Noel C, Cusan L, Dupont A, Prevost J et al. Influence of diet on plasma steroids and sex hormone-binding globulin levels in adult men. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology 1989 32 829 ± 833.

Key TJ, Roe L, Thorogood M, Moore JW, Clark GM & Wang DY. Testosterone sex hormone-binding globulin, calculated free testosterone and oestradiol in male vegans and omnivores. British Journal of Nutrition 1990 64 111±119.

Also interesting:
Testosterone levels in healthy men and the relation to behavioural and physical characteristics: facts and constructs
M Zitzmann and E Nieschlag (2001)
http://www.eje-online.org/content/144/3/183.full.pdf

One of the problems is that the "vegetarians" (in Belanger et al) were vegans. I would imagine the presence of egg and dairy proteins would offset this effect. But the results need to be taken in context due to the lack of control in some aspects.

In short; there's nothing wrong with vegetarianism.

zombiefishfish

I was vegetarian for five years and vegan for three. I have nightmares like what you're talking about, but they are directly related to personal experiences. I sincerely doubt it's because I didn't eat animals.

Now that I'm eating meat again... the nightmares haven't gotten any worse or better.

I really think it's just a coincidence.

runlikeananna

I get nightmares when I take St Johns Wort and a number of natural sleep assisters.

Cr01502

I get nightmares just from the thought of taking meat out of my diet.

These two things are clearly linked.

BlackEyedPanda

Nightmares and vegetarianism are not related. That is just silly.

yourenotmine

Had nightmares before I became veg, still have them since. Never heard of any link. I suspect you can't find any studies linking them because there's nothing.

Lupercalia

I've had vivid dreams (good and bad) my entire life. I was a veggie/vegan for 20 years, but am not now, and haven't been for a couple years. Still have the vivid dreams.

Yogi_Carl

Vegan

Sleep like a rock

Try Yoga

phangirl8

I've been vegetarian since 1989 and the only times I've had vivid nightmares they've been related to events in my life, same as a previous poster stated. I very much doubt that your nightmares have anything to do with a vegetarian diet. I know lots of vegetarians and I've never heard anyone mention it affecting their dreams. Remember, correlation doesn't equal causation. It's probably just a coincidence

LJSmith1989

I went vegetarian in late 2004 and kept with it until early November, 2012 when I decided to add fish to my diet (for many reasons, but they're irrelevant to this).

Backing up a little, sometime during 2009 I began having extremely vivid nightmares somewhat sporadically. Off and on every few weeks, I'd go a week where every night, I dreamed about truly awful things. A lot of the dreams still haunt me a bit. >.>

Anyway, before I went pescetarian I had heard/read somewhere (don't remember where) that vegetarianism can cause a deficiency which can mess with sleep and dreams. I'm not sure if perhaps this is merely the placebo effect, but since I went pescetarian I've had only one nightmare like I used to.

So here's the question: does anyone know of any data or anecdotal accounts related to this? I have googled it, but I can't seem to find anything on it. I'd like to know if this is a coincidence or if maybe I was very low on something essential that my body needed.

Other potentially relevant things:
- I tried a bunch of different things to get rid of the nightmares including: stop watching/reading/playing anything violent (I like horror movies, so this sucked and didn't help one bit); stop eating late at night; relaxation exercises before sleep; sleeping alone; sleeping without any white noise; sleeping with white noise; foods that are supposed to calm you (chamomile, etc.); avoiding spicy foods; no screen-time close to bed; thinking about happy things before bed
- the nightmares seemed to happen whether I was stressed or not
- the nightmares tended to be very violent
- they stopped pretty quickly after I went pescetarian, and I've only had one since then (though I have had regular, run of the mill nightmares - being late to something, failing a final, etc.)

Hmmm No I don't think so. I think that was just a coincidence.
I am veggie and completely normal
Could you perhaps be wanting to go back to meat and feel guilty about it and hence the nightmares?

stefa711

"Vegetarianism" doesn't cause deficiencies. Not eating balanced foods does. Your dreams may very well be caused by a deficiency of some sort, but don't blame it on vegetarianism, rather, blame an unbalanced diet. You can be a vegetarian and eat Cheetos every meal. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it.

toddis

The only thing I would be aware of being deficient in a veggie diet is B12 (without supplementation). Deficiency in B12 does cause neural issues. I'm not sure it's directly related to nightmares though.

theundead

I'm vegan and I get nightmares often, its stress related. Never thought of blaming vegan/vegetarianism before, for it :laugh:

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Mandathehillbilly

I get nightmares just from the thought of taking meat out of my diet.

These two things are clearly linked.

me too!

redraidergirl2009

LOL

mushroomcup

"Vegetarianism" doesn't cause deficiencies. Not eating balanced foods does. Your dreams may very well be caused by a deficiency of some sort, but don't blame it on vegetarianism, rather, blame an unbalanced diet. You can be a vegetarian and eat Cheetos every meal. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it.

I 100% agree. I don't think that being a vegetarian would necessarily lead to having nightmares, obviously, because I've never heard of anyone else having this issue. However, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that my diet was deficient in something and now is not because of fish. If that's the case, I'd like to know what it is so that if I go back to full vegetarianism, I can make sure I'm getting everything I need.

mushroomcup

What?!

I'm not too sure whether it's been proved otherwise, but a study in 1989 showed that vegetarians had less bioavailable testosterone than non-vegetarians. But the total level of testosterone was very similar.

I'll get the reference for you in a minute.

Edit:

"Comparing total serum testosterone levels in omnivorous men to those on a vegetarian diet showed no differences, but in the latter group there were significantly higher levels of SHBG, leading to decreased levels of bioavailable testosterone. The kind of diet is most likely to influence the fraction of bioavailable testosterone, but not total levels of this hormone"

Available testosterone is the stuff that is useful.

Belanger A, Locong A, Noel C, Cusan L, Dupont A, Prevost J et al. Influence of diet on plasma steroids and sex hormone-binding globulin levels in adult men. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology 1989 32 829 ± 833.

Key TJ, Roe L, Thorogood M, Moore JW, Clark GM & Wang DY. Testosterone sex hormone-binding globulin, calculated free testosterone and oestradiol in male vegans and omnivores. British Journal of Nutrition 1990 64 111±119.

Also interesting:
Testosterone levels in healthy men and the relation to behavioural and physical characteristics: facts and constructs
M Zitzmann and E Nieschlag (2001)
http://www.eje-online.org/content/144/3/183.full.pdf

One of the problems is that the "vegetarians" (in Belanger et al) were vegans. I would imagine the presence of egg and dairy proteins would offset this effect. But the results need to be taken in context due to the lack of control in some aspects.

In short; there's nothing wrong with vegetarianism.

I don't think there's anything wrong with vegetarianism in general. I think that maybe my diet was lacking in something and perhaps the fish made up for it.

Also, I'm a woman. :P

mushroomcup

The only thing I would be aware of being deficient in a veggie diet is B12 (without supplementation). Deficiency in B12 does cause neural issues. I'm not sure it's directly related to nightmares though.

I actually considered whether vitamin B deficiencies could have been the cause as I know that they are essential for cognitive functioning. If I go back to full-on vegetarianism, I'll definitely be strict about taking B supplements.

Also, thank you for the thoughtful response.

mushroomcup

I'm vegan and I get nightmares often, its stress related. Never thought of blaming vegan/vegetarianism before, for it :laugh:

Yeah, I had them for 3 years and never even considered that they could be due to my diet. I always assumed that they were caused by something psychological.

But the thing is, these weren't just normal nightmares. They were extremely vivid and violent and like no other nightmares I've experienced before. Also, they didn't seem to change based on my stress levels. They could very well have been caused by something unrelated to diet, and this definitely could be mere correlation, but I think it's odd that I had them for 3 years until I added fish to my diet. Now, it's been 5 months and I've only had one.

meaningful99

It's a coincidence. I was a vegetarian for 18 years and now eat meat once or twice a week. I sleep like a log and always have. Good luck finding a resolution!

paruls86

been a vegetarian all my life and sleep like a rock... try meditation it might help

Markguns

I think you ate too many Mushrooms!

tiggersstar

Side Effect of Vegetarianism = being less responsible for the death of thousands of animals.

:flowerforyou:

neandermagnon

lack of healthy fat in the diet can make existing psychiatric problems worse and I've seen one study that links insufficient healthy fat to an increased risk of suicide (not read the actual journal article though, just seen it referenced in something else)

Healthy fat certainly has a role in the brain, and lack of it can affect how your brain functions, so that *may* be an explanation as to why introducing fish into your diet caused the nightmares to stop... *if* they were caused by a deficiency in healthy fats... fish is a very good source of healthy fat. Note: this is just a suggestion, no idea if it was that or not, but it's theoretically possible. The brain is a highly complex organ and if it's not functioning at its best due to a dietary deficiency, then nightmares *may* be one way that manifests itself. this kind of thing would vary from individual to individual, and sometimes things that would not have any noticeable affect on one person's brain might trigger something another person is more susceptible to (nightmares in your case)

Also, even if the above is true, the vegetarian diet itself is not to blame. There are plenty of vegetarian sources of healthy fat such as cold pressed vegetable and seed oils, and nuts, and flax seed is supposed to be really good. The vegetarian diet isn't automatically healthier than a meat eating diet. Either a vegetarian or non-vegetarian diet could be deficient in some nutrients if you don't pay enough attention to them.

And if you were sure you were getting adequate fat and other nutrients in your diet then just ignore my suggestion. There are other likely causes, including pure co-incidence.

sphyxy

Side Effect of Vegetarianism = being less responsible for the death of thousands of animals.

:flowerforyou:

veganstein

I have been a vegetarian for 30+ years,have not had nightmares that weren't tied to life events. YMMV

BaconMD

What you experienced is commonly known as Animasympathetelepathy. When you avoid eating animals, they become your friend and bond to you when you enter the dream realm during R.E.M. sleep. The visions they give you are representative of what the animals feel when they are being slaughtered for food.

In short, it's completely normal.