CROSSFIT???

stroutman81

Excellent post Steve!

As you are far more knowledgeable than I in this field, I would like to extend that question posed by tharrop and maybe become a bit more specific.
For myself, I do a lot of team based contact and high agility sports. I play football in the fall, and baseball in the summer, I know most don't think of baseball as an explosive sport, but if you think about it, it really is. I play center field and pitch, both positions require very fast zero to maximum speed with sudden directional changes. I am also a very fast player and a base stealer, which just means more stop and start (and injuries apparently). In football I play "center field" as well, free safety to be exact, another position with a lot of direction change and stop and start (although not as much as baseball oddly enough).
So that being said, my question is this:

While being low body fat and looking lean and strong is nice, I'm all about performance enhancement. As such, I tend to focus on agility, quickness, and reaction time (AQR) drills (plyometrics, lower and mid body drills), but I also try to enhance some of my endurance (although not to the degree that I do my AQR stuff). Do you think that trying to get in a few days of traditional weight training would be pushing it and cause my body to fight against itself? Up until now I've been trying to get in 2 days that I do basically about 15 minutes of light steady state cardio to warm up, 45 minutes to 1 hour plus of weight training, then about 10 minutes just to cool down and stretch, then I do 3 full days of hard AQR training, then 2 days of steady state cardio for about 45 minutes to an hour (moderate level). You think I'm spreading it around to much? I have noticed that I have a difficult time gaining significant muscle mass, even though I do eat at a slight calorie surplus most days and eat very clean on most days. Essentially, I'm just looking to keep my existing speed, maybe increase start time, and increase my "functional" strength (there's that word, but in this case I mean, leg and rotational speed for pitching and batting).
So think I'm spreading myself to thin?

Sorry Tharrop, I didn't mean to hijack your question.

This could open up an entire can of worms about periodization schemes (block, conjugate, linear, etc) and I'd like to avoid it as it wouldn't be very applicable for most people.

Here's the primary thing we have to keep in mind...

It takes much less work to maintain an attribute than it does to build it up. All of the various periodization schemes simply exploit this fact by sequencing the building up of various factors while maintaining others.

Take my wrestlers for example. Right now they're in the middle of their off season. We know that wrestling is a very versatile sport calling on strength, power, agility, aerobic and anaerobic conditioning, local muscle endurance, mobility/stability/flexibility, etc.

Once we identify what attributes are important for a given task and why they're important, we can sequence and pair certain attributes to build them in a logical order.

For example, it'd be silly to build power without a base of strength. Power is simply strength displayed explosively... so with a novice athlete I'm likely to focus most of my attention on building raw strength. As the season nears, I'll progress this strength to work in more power oriented stuff and after that I'll progress it one more time to focus on power stuff that's specific to the wrestling mat.

Mind, this is merely one example of one component of a training program. Needless to say, performance enhancement is a much more difficult task (especially when the event you're training for is multifaceted like most field sports are) than is training for fat loss, muscle gain, or whatever.

Understanding the appropriate sequencing of training variable requires a) a lot of experience and b) a lot of reading. I'd recommend basic physiology books as well as a lot of the stuff that has come out of the eastern bloc countries. Stuff from Verkhoshansky and Zatsiorsky for sure. Two classic examples would be Special Strength Training: A Practical Manual for Coaches and The Science & Practice of Strength Training from the respective authors. While they aren't the be all end all... they'll definitely touch on what I'm describing above in great detail.

And there are no books or resources out there, including academic papers, that lay it out in terms of "do this, not that." That's why there is and always will be a "feel" or "art" component to coaching.

I also recommending reading and watching everything you can find from the great late Charlie Francis.

Another great resource which I think is a must read for anyone seriously interested in this stuff is Joel Jamieson's ULtimate MMA Conditioning book. While it's geared towards MMA, Joel is one of the first to discuss the orderly sequencing of conditioning variables depending on the individual needs of the athlete.

I get a lot of emails from younger coaches and athletes asking for my advice on program design and beyond spitting some generalities at them, it's pretty much impossible to give them specifics without knowing more about the athlete/s in question, the sport, the time frames, etc.

One thing's very common though... too many people are trying to bring everything up all at once, which goes back to what I was saying about the senselessness of crossfit.

Patrick Ward... a strength coach I've come to respect and recommend to my readers who are in his geographic location, explained this perfectly here:

http://optimumsportsperformance.com/blog/?p=986

Specifically to your questions, I can tell you that I always have a foundation of strength training in the mix of my own progamming and the programming of my athletes. Sometimes the dosage is set to drive adaptation. Other times it's set to maintain what we've already built in the past. The latter typically has 30-50% of the "dose" used to build up.

Generally speaking, "AQR" training isn't all that demanding in terms of recuperation. It's the high intensity stuff and the high volume stuff where you can run into problems. Typically I'll have AQR stuff throw into my strength training at pretty much every session. I won't generally dedicate entire sessions to it though as it won't provide me that high of a return on investment and I can improve those qualities with volumes that can be fit into my strength training days.

If you're not slogging marathons each week and you're not doing something off the wall crazy in terms of strength training... especially seeing as how you're not dieting... I doubt you're spreading yourself too thin.

I sort of feel like I was all over the place here... wanted to respond quickly before I forgot about this thread. Please feel free to keep the convo going!

stroutman81

bump

had a number of emails lately asking for my opinions on CF

stroutman81

Need I really say more?

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/2011/08/tuesday_110816.html

coffeekat02

I know the initial post was done long time ago, but thought I would share a great article with you about CrossFit: http://www.fastcompany.com/1771136/crossfit-where-navy-seals-and-pregnant-soccer-moms-get-ripped

I started my journey in January and I have never been phsycially active with sports or any type of athletic program my whole life. I began CrossFit for a social experience as our friends had a gym. My first workout was a total of 4 minutes and I was hooked. My husband and my three kids ages, 17, 13 and 10 all participated from day 1. The program can be scaled to meet each clients fitness level I think it is important to find a gym where the trainers do make that a priority as there are affiliate gyms that push harder therefore injuries can occur. I can tell you, that I have seen many ripped men who have done their own work outs and "appear" to be in the best shape and the WOD's have kicked their butt. They do not encourage you to go in and lift as much weight as you can, in fact my husband is strong and he can lift A LOT of weight, he had a mental struggle as they told him to drop to a lower weight as he has to work on his form. Many battles later, he listened and now he has great form and able to increase his weight. Anyone who lifts can appreciate that achievement. As far as a total work out, if you think this gym is only about lifting weights forget it, it isn't, do you know I have gone in to do a WOD and it was to do a 5k, yep that is just cardio! I am 34 I thought I would need hip relacement by the time I was 40 due to Rheumatoid Arthritis, I have a terrible lowered backa nd have been taken away by ambulance before because of it, and I am stronger then I ever have been, I no longer have to take medications and most improtant I am not in pain!

In reference to the gentleman who comments on the "cultlike" atmosphere, I will not like those of us who do love and have the passion do joke that we drank the CrossFit Kool-aid, and I will tell you why, it has nothing to do with the trainers or the cost, or by our egos, (as if you knew me you would no, I do not have that) (www.poweredbycrossfit.net) It is because we all have our own journey, we all started somewhere, sure my starting point maybe at a different place then yours, but to each of us it has it's own meaning.

It is about personal best, I hope you read my bog to see what it really has been about and how for the first tie in my life I belong, and I have no reason to belong with these people, they ripped, I am not. I have lost 30lbs with 50lbs mroe to go, I do know I have always wanted to do a "boy" push up my whole life and I know that feeling when I did my first one, the other members of the gym share in that, they celebrate with you on your triumphs and they feel your pain at each work out.

CrossFit, is growing leaps and bounds and if you think it is just marketing, it isn't, if you think because it is a cult, it isn't. It is because it is much greater it makes you believe in yourself, you can't get that at another gym.

stroutman81

Too bad at the end of the day it's still based on hocus pocus.

I suppose if it gets you results... that's what matters most. Information integrity doesn't matter to the average consumer. I get that.

But it does matter to me. And I have encountered more than enough people who've been hurt by bogus xfit trainers to make me question the general approach.

I can respect that you've had a positive experience with it. I really can. Hopefully you can respect where other industry professionals are coming from though too. People who rely on science to guide their advice - who also get amazing results for their clients.

Yes, the corporate gym scene is a dying animal. It sucks. But Xfit is not the answer to that problem as far as I'm concerned. The small, private, fitness-professional-backed places are the answer. Those places that thrive on individualized and sensible programming.

Keep in mind, I've no affiliations. I could just as easily dish out the couple of thousand bucks for the bogus crossfit cert and start selling that. I choose not to though because I do care about information integrity

coffeekat02

Steve -

I can entirely respect your view just the same. From years of of trying different things and failing miserably, I have come to the realization that differnt things work for different people. CrossFit, might be the answer for me and my family, but respect that you have different views. I think for me people need to find what works for them. We all have opinions, it is part of our make up.

I just feel saddened for those CrossFit trainers that do care about their clients to be brought down by those others that do not take their clients wellbeing into consideration. As most people do rely on them for guidance. I would love for you to watch a video, it is clear there are some good ones out there.

Best of luck to you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR52X5XdOD0&feature=channel_video_title

stroutman81

Oh trust me... I'm friends with some terrific CF trainers. There are bad trainers everywhere... crossfit or otherwise.

But my beef with crossfit transcends well beyond the quality of trainer and very poor certification process. It has to do a lot with the methodologies being applied coming from the top down from headquarters.