Fat loss first or Muscle gain first?

hiyomi

So right now I weigh 260 and have about 60 pounds til I get to my goal weight. I wanted to try doing the 30 day shred, because I have seen amazing transformations, but should I wait to lose more weight first? I know it builds loads of muscles, but I have heard that you are supposed to lose weight first! What should I try doing? I do cardio for 50 minutes, 5 days a week and also weight lift 3-5 days a week for 20 minutes.

SanteMulberry

Bump (I'd like to know the answer on this too).

SideSteel

So right now I weigh 260 and have about 60 pounds til I get to my goal weight. I wanted to try doing the 30 day shred, because I have seen amazing transformations, but should I wait to lose more weight first?

There's no reason that you can't attempt to do this program while trying to lose weight.

I know it builds loads of muscles, but I have heard that you are supposed to lose weight first!

Actually the only thing that builds loads of muscle is a combination of the following.

1) A calorie surplus
2) Steroids
3) Heavy weight training.


30-day shred will help you burn calories and initially it may help you retain LBM but it will not build loads of muscle.

jsilky

I'd like to know too!! ")

MarioLozano16

I don't know what the thirty day shred is, but if it's weight lifting, you'll lose fat while building muscle

SJackson50

I started the 30DS at 203...lost 12 pounds and 22 inches. In my journey to date, I've only done JM videos...nothing more. Try it...the only thing you have to lose is a size!
Good luck in your journey!

CoderGal

So right now I weigh 260 and have about 60 pounds til I get to my goal weight. I wanted to try doing the 30 day shred, because I have seen amazing transformations, but should I wait to lose more weight first?

There's no reason that you can't attempt to do this program while trying to lose weight.

I know it builds loads of muscles, but I have heard that you are supposed to lose weight first!

Actually the only thing that builds loads of muscle is a combination of the following.

1) A calorie surplus
2) Steroids
3) Heavy weight training.


30-day shred will help you burn calories and initially it may help you retain LBM but it will not build loads of muscle.

I'll just point out that he said a combination, meaning lifting isn't going to make you build loads of muscles on a calorie deficit. At best you're still likely going to lose muscle.

Also, isn't 30 day shred more of a cardio thing? Not a lifting thing?

IIISpartacusIII

The 30 day shred doesn't "build loads of muscle", not on men who have "loads more testosterone" and certainly not on women who have very little testosterone. Men typically find it very difficult to add a few onces after they've already built up a base. The 30 day shred is not a bodybuilding for mass routine, instead it combines some weighted exercise in a cardio circuit training routine with the idea of burning lots of calories by getting your heart rate way up. Compare any of the physiques of the 30 day shred, i.e. an average 5'9" male at about 170lbs to the 250 lb shredded physiques that hit bodybuilding stages. Note the 80lb difference in muscle mass. The 30 day shred is clearly not designed to add loads of muscle.

_SABOTEUR_

So right now I weigh 260 and have about 60 pounds til I get to my goal weight. I wanted to try doing the 30 day shred, because I have seen amazing transformations, but should I wait to lose more weight first?

There's no reason that you can't attempt to do this program while trying to lose weight.

I know it builds loads of muscles, but I have heard that you are supposed to lose weight first!

Actually the only thing that builds loads of muscle is a combination of the following.

1) A calorie surplus
2) Steroids
3) Heavy weight training.


30-day shred will help you burn calories and initially it may help you retain LBM but it will not build loads of muscle.

By 'loads of muscle' SS is refering to (correct me if I'm wrong) more than 1/2 lb a week for men and 1/4lb a week for women. Any more than that and steroids would need to be used.

Your best option is to lose weight at a small deficit whilst incorporating a program that includes weights that progress in mass or frequency to retain your LBM.

tashpots

I would do both at the same time (calorie deficit and strength training), because it will help you preserve your muscle mass while still losing the fat (and preserving muscle mass will in turn help you burn more calories). When you get much nearer to your goal weight or fat percentage then you can maybe think about how to build up your muscle mass.

hiyomi

Ah I see, I thought it made you build a good amount of muscle because when I saw before and after pictures of people, they looked really toned and muscular compared to their before pictures! I think I would like to start the 30 day shred soon, I hope I am able to lose a good amount of weight with it >.<

_SABOTEUR_

I don't know what the thirty day shred is, but if it's weight lifting, you'll lose fat while building muscle

No. Many people believe they have gained muscle but it is the fat loss revealing the muscle underneath that is happening, not significant muscle mass gains.

DozzFit

what's good about some weightlifting is that your body will continue to 'burn' calories long after you work out. Don't worry about gaining muscle mass, if you work out to that extent you would actually have to increase your calorie intake significantly to actually gain mass.

I also would say try to distribute your calorie goal as much as possible throughout the day. This has helped me tremendously recently.

crisanderson27

So right now I weigh 260 and have about 60 pounds til I get to my goal weight. I wanted to try doing the 30 day shred, because I have seen amazing transformations, but should I wait to lose more weight first?

There's no reason that you can't attempt to do this program while trying to lose weight.

I know it builds loads of muscles, but I have heard that you are supposed to lose weight first!

Actually the only thing that builds loads of muscle is a combination of the following.

1) A calorie surplus
2) Steroids
3) Heavy weight training.


30-day shred will help you burn calories and initially it may help you retain LBM but it will not build loads of muscle.

^^^ What he said.

I don't know what the thirty day shred is, but if it's weight lifting, you'll lose fat while building muscle

^^^ Not what he said.

Seriously, none of the things you're doing or discussing doing in your OP will build any muscle for you (and it's questionable how much lean mass they'll even help retain)...so if that's what your concern is, don't worry.

If you'd like to really get yourself burning fat, I'd consider ordering the book 'New Rules of Lifting for Women' on Amazon. It's not my preferred source of information, but it's keyed towards women, and gets you over your initial fear of weights. It's a great place to start. There's an excellent and very helpful MFP group dedicated to supporting women on this program as well. Once you are comfortable, you might look into Stronglifts 5x5, or Starting Strength. There are women's groups on MFP for these programs as well.

Here is the first link available on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Women-Goddess/dp/1583333398/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365555390&sr=1-1&keywords=new+rules+of+lifting+for+women


Understand...all of the cardio you're doing will help you into a calorie deficit which is absolutely necessary for weight loss, but if you're using MFP as it was designed, all it's really doing (as far as fat loss goes) is letting you eat a lot more food. Adding in a REAL and effective strength training system (not a video, DvD, Beach Body, or Jillian Michaels program) will really help you start seeing the results you're looking for.

And no, I promise, as long as you're eating at a caloric deficit, you absolutely will not build any muscle .

thecakelocker

You already have muscle, as long as you maintain it by lifting heavy and eating adequate protein on your way down you'll start to see definition and "tone" as the fat comes off. Definitely look into a lifting program and don't be afraid of heavy weights, they'll make you slimmer, not larger. Good luck!

hiyomi

You already have muscle, as long as you maintain it by lifting heavy and eating adequate protein on your way down you'll start to see definition and "tone" as the fat comes off. Definitely look into a lifting program and don't be afraid of heavy weights, they'll make you slimmer, not larger. Good luck!

I wasn't really afraid of gaining too much muscle, what I was afraid of, so I have heard, if you gain too much muscle before you lose weight, you won't lose as much weight! So that's why I was asking if I should lose weight first and then go into heavy lifting.

thecakelocker

I started at about your weight and I lost scale pounds more slowly when I started doing more weight lifting, but I noticed a much big difference in my appearance! Cardio just kind of gradually shrank me all over but kept me fat-shaped, but when I switched to lifting weights I started looking much different.

RoadsterGirlie

When I changed my eating habits (after a wake up call that I was over 200 lbs), I also incorporated exercise which included both weights and cardio. The 30 Day Shred was part of this routine as well. I liked this DVD so much I bought everything else Jillian has come out with!

You absolutely cannot hurt your efforts by exercising. Even if you lift heavy (which I absolutely encourage), you will not bulk up. Instead, you will help maintain muscle mass, which will help your body burn more calories at rest. More calories burned at rest means faster weight loss.

blackcloud13

Bump (I need this info!)

crisanderson27

You already have muscle, as long as you maintain it by lifting heavy and eating adequate protein on your way down you'll start to see definition and "tone" as the fat comes off. Definitely look into a lifting program and don't be afraid of heavy weights, they'll make you slimmer, not larger. Good luck!

I wasn't really afraid of gaining too much muscle, what I was afraid of, so I have heard, if you gain too much muscle before you lose weight, you won't lose as much weight! So that's why I was asking if I should lose weight first and then go into heavy lifting.

As thecakelocker said, you will see a FAR greater difference in your body by strength training and eating on a calorie deficit than by doing cardio and eating on a calorie deficit. Ignore the scale, it's only good for very loosely tracking trends.

Believe me, find those groups I mentioned, ask your question in there. You will be flooded with women who did cardio for years to lose fat and became very, very discouraged with their results (one woman was told by her trainer, after years of paying him...that the spare tire around her midsection and thighs was simply her 'bodytype', and that no amount of work would help her lose it so she should just get used to it). Yet in two to three months of strength training, many of them not only surpassed their appearance goals that they'd had initially, but they're stronger than they'd ever imagined.

a39emm

This is one thing I am really confused about, even after reading A LOT of the posts on this forum. I am concerned that I am losing LBM while I lose fat - I haven't done much strength training in the past three weeks, have just been focusing on my diet and getting some cardio in - but I want to start lifting, because I've only heard good things. Here's what I am confused about:

In order to lose fat you must retain a calorie deficit and you absolutely cannot build muscle if you are at a deficit and yet people here are all saying lift heavy and it changes your body comp and you burn fat way fast etc. But how can you lift heavy (and heavier and heavier as the programs require) if you can't build muscle?? And even doing basic things like 30 Day Shred or body weight exercises aren't going to be enough to retain LBM?? I just don't get it.

crisanderson27

This is one thing I am really confused about, even after reading A LOT of the posts on this forum. I am concerned that I am losing LBM while I lose fat - I haven't done much strength training in the past three weeks, have just been focusing on my diet and getting some cardio in - but I want to start lifting, because I've only heard good things. Here's what I am confused about:

In order to lose fat you must retain a calorie deficit and you absolutely cannot build muscle if you are at a deficit and yet people here are all saying lift heavy and it changes your body comp and you burn fat way fast etc. But how can you lift heavy (and heavier and heavier as the programs require) if you can't build muscle?? And even doing basic things like 30 Day Shred or body weight exercises aren't going to be enough to retain LBM?? I just don't get it.

This is an excellent question.

Look at the amount of muscle you have as your strength 'potential'...not how strong you are. What you're actually doing when strength training on a calorie deficit, is training your BRAIN to more effectively use that muscle. It does this by (loosely put) growing little nervous pathways throughout your muscles in order to help it 'contract' them by using more of the muscle more effectively. It's called 'neuromuscular adaptation'. Most people only use a VERY small percentage of the potential strength they have in their existing muscle.

Now for the second part. What causes your body to retain lean mass while lifting heavy and eating at a deficit, is hormonal response. Again...loosely put, by lifting weight, you're telling your body you NEED those muscles, it responds by sending out hormones that tell your body to burn fat for fuel because the muscle you have is necessary. Remember what I said about neuromuscular adaptation...and think about the fact that it doesn't actually take much strength to perform those cardio based workouts, but it takes a CRAPLOAD of endurance. Strength and endurance are not the same, and your body doesn't respond to those signals the same.

I hope this helps!

jonnythan

Strength train and keep eating a deficit. You are overweight so you can definitely build some muscle while losing.

But, for all that is good and holy, and for your own benefit, start strength training.

crisanderson27

Strength train and keep eating a deficit. You are overweight so you can definitely build some muscle while losing.

But, for all that is good and holy, and for your own benefit, start strength training.

She is absolutely not going to build any measurable amount of muscle, no matter how overweight she is. She doesn't have the testosterone for it even if it were possible otherwise. Even slightly measurable newbie gains are really only going to happen in men on a really good lifting program, and usually only for the first month or so.

But you're right, she absolutely SHOULD start strength training!

a39emm

That helps A LOT! I was soo confused, but that makes complete sense, I was so confused haha.
Also I know this is lame but you kinda made my day saying it was a good question cause I was feeling really stupid about asking it. :flowerforyou:

hiyomi

Okay one more question. Is strength training the same thing as weight lifting? I lift heavy 3-5 days a week.

SideSteel

Okay one more question. Is strength training the same thing as weight lifting? I lift heavy 3-5 days a week.

basically yes

RoadsterGirlie

Yes, but so are push-ups, and other exercises that use your own body weight for resistance.

The bottom line is, if you are losing weight, you are going to lose fat and muscle - there's no way around it. As you become smaller, your body will not require as much muscle for normal every day movement. However, exercise will minimize this, and help keep you strong.

crisanderson27

Okay one more question. Is strength training the same thing as weight lifting? I lift heavy 3-5 days a week.

basically yes

Absolutely, depending on how you define lifting heavy.

Yes, but so are push-ups, and other exercises that use your own body weight for resistance.

Only if they are performed at a level where you fail within 5-8 reps.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Obese newbie gains are best newbie gains. Eat at a deficit, start a strength based program (SS, SL, 5/3/1, etc.) and do it for about six months. Then switch to a hypertrophy program like DC, HST, PHAT, etc.

jonnythan

Only if they are performed at a level where you fail within 5-8 reps.

For strength, yes. For preserving or growing muscle, anything in the 3-20 rep range to failure should do just fine, actually. Since starting a 5/3/1 program I'm a big fan of varying the weight and rep ranges regularly, too.