Eat more calories and lose weight- What is really happening
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Hey, y'all. I just wanted to make this post to shed some light from my experience as a private practice RD specializing in weight loss on a concept I see posted so often in these forums:
"Starvation Mode"
How is it that people who can't lose weight on say... 1500 calories, drop to 1200 calories and still don't lose weight? Or even yet, someone who is eating 1000 calories increases their intake up to 1400 and they start losing weight. How does this happen?
First, let's talk about some inconsistencies in the whole calorie counting process:
1. Values for foods in MFP- caloric variance in foods with the same name
2. Portion size estimations from user of MFP- there can even be variance when using measuring cups. Food scales are the most accurate.
3. Variance in reported caloric value from restaurants
4. Variance in the BMR TDEE and calories burned from exercise- these are all equations and estimations anyways
So right there, you have a lot of variance. We can safely assume that foods entered in MFP may have some inaccuracies.
Now let's look at the average MFP user
1. Probably not weighing out all foods. Estimates intake quite a bit.
2. May dine out at a restaurant or casserole dishes that are hard to estimate
3. May skip days or meals and have gaps in data from logging
4. May not be aware of extra calories in food, or simply forget to add certain ingredients
5. May not be accurately recording exercise (Choosing wrong intensity or including warm up and cool down time in workout)
Consider some special populations and individuals who are eating VERY low calorie diets, and are losing weight
- prisoners of war
- people with GI or absorption issues (crohn's disease, etc)
- bariatric surgery patients
- medically supervised protein sparing modified fasts
... all these individuals are on severely restricted calories and still lose weight
The ONLY way to sustain a fat loss is to sustain a caloric deficit: big or small
So here's my 2 cents on what really happens in "starvation mode"
Scenario A: Individual cuts calories and doesn't lose any weight
Possible reasons:
1. general inconsistencies in tracking (examples above) means the original or new calorie values were inaccurate to begin with.
2. this individual becomes less physically active after cutting calories
3. individual binges more severely or often from feeling overly restricted
4. individual is unaware of "sneaking" foods or bigger portion sizes
Scenario B: Individual eats more and loses weight
1. Greater accuracy is achieved as person consumes more, he or she pays more attention to accurate portion sizes
2. Individual begins exercising more
3. Eats more simple, single ingredient foods, which are usually easier to track and measure
The take home point is that to achieve a weight loss, you have to sustain a deficit. There's no other way to do it. So to the 200 pound person only eating 1,000 calories and not losing weight, I would say, your 1,000 calories is probably a misestimation OR you are indeed eating 1,000 calories until you binge and eat back your deficit. (Or you need to get your thyroid checked, but this post is in regards to individuals with normally functioning thyroids).
Bring on the flame posts and naysayers! My body is ready!
:laugh:
Forgot Scenario C, or which I am a part of...
Person eats more and loses weight:
--Has always meticulously weighed everything and tracked everything both before and after eating more calories.
--Still exercises the same after eating more to include 4 weight training and 2 cardio sessions per week while getting in at least 10,000 steps daily
--Hasn't changed what they ate because dammit, pizza and cheesecake taste good.
Your scenarios you a lot of "may" in the statements. And they DO NOT represent all MFP users, and this one is insulted by your insinuations.
I was on a plateau eating at 1500 calories, and then starting losing again once I increased to 1800 calories. I am now smaller, leaner, and tighter. You can go on and on about what you think I may have done wrong before, but by your OP, you'd be completely wrong.
Have a nice day. :drinker:0 -
4. Variance in the BMR TDEE and calories burned from exercise- these are all equations and estimations anyways
Agree, ref to a recent post of over estimation of calorie burnt. Too many work out 100% for 60mins which is pretty impossible if you are overweight and unfit. Warm up, cool down, breaks, slowing could mean that actual workout would be more 20 - 30 mins. Hence calorie burnt could be more 180 not 800!!!0 -
this posting is much too logical... thank you Tony for a moment of sanity... so sick of reading the whole starvation mode crap.:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0
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thank you for being smart. there is so much misinformation in these forums.0
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You are likely describing a fairly high number of people on this site. I would imagine a lot of people are not tracking food and exercise calories accurately. However, there are a lot of people who are doing all of the right things, and are hungry, tired, have mood swings, aren't losing fat (or any weight at all), and are ready to give up.
You fail completely at understanding the type of person so desperate to lose weight and so scared of food that they would eat <1200 calories a day. And you therefore completely don't understand the most important reasons for "eating more to lose more" - sanity, sustainability, and teaching women to take up space, eat like a normal human beings, and stop obessesive dieting behaviors.
You do not fix someone's mind and behaviors by telling them to get a food scale and heart rate monitor and start tracking every single day for the next year.0 -
Ok - so I have been at this for about a month...calorie goal is 1424 per day. I exercise 3-5 days per week. I have lost 3 pounds. Now after reading the TDEE stuff on this thread, it looks as if I must get 1728 calories per day. So this is an increase of 300 calories a day. Since I have been under that mark for the last month, shouldn't I have lost more since my input/output is far different? I truly am scared to death to eat more calories as my brain has been trained from an early age to eat less. I don't feel hungry and through the day try to get a snack in but still find I have about 1/3 of my calories left to eat after 4:00 pm. Please advise. Thank you0
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exactly! AND that by telling them to eat more simply means to them that they will gain more weight which means more impossible to lose. I am one of those SCARED people! Thank you! Please help!0
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Increasing calories in (eating more) can result in increasing calories out (generally moving more - NEPA, less efficiency of movement and higher energy cost of processing food - TEF)
This, along with more stringent focus on calories, less unconscious and not logged eating due to decreased feeling of deprivation therefore can result in a greater deficit than if calories in were lower.
TDEE is not static.
Find your calorie sweet spot: low enough that it creates fat loss but not so low it causes fat loss to slow unnecessarily.
^^this
ETA: and not so low as to risk deficiencies.0 -
I just wonder amid all the science and you would know an awful lot more than me.If you eat clean home prepared food cooked from scratch nothing from packets and tins ect,and just ate enough to satisfy hunger would you really need all the science?I think eat well and move more sounds very simplistic I know but it does work!
free your mind of all of this "clean" nonsense. when it comes to weight loss, it's all about the energy equation.
1 "clean" calorie = 1 "dirty" calorie
it's simply a measure of the energy in food.
you can get extremely fat eating nothing but "clean" food to excess. you can get extremely skinny eating nothing but "dirty" food on a calorie deficit.
food is simply fuel. when it comes to weight loss, where that fuel comes from is irrelevant. nutrition is a different matter, but nutrition is not weight loss.0 -
You're completely correct.
However
I lost 1 lb a week (accurately) eating 1200 calories and I also lost 1 lb a week (accurately) eating 1650 calories.
Black magic? Maybe.
It's not a one-sized fits all answer for ever single individual. Do I want to believe that the mathematical logistics apply to everyone equally? Well, yeah. But who knows why it doesn't.
If I can lose 1 lb a week eating more or less, I choose more. If someone offered me a salary of 100,000 dollars a year, that'd be like me saying "nah, I'm good with 50,000".
The problem I have the large deficits isn't the fact of whether it works or not. Of course it works. When those people gain it all back and have ended up with a huge loss of LBM, THAT'S when they'll look for another way.0 -
Bump this thread for later!0
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Call me slow, but I still have trouble understanding this.
For me, personally, I am trying to lose two pounds a week. So, that means a 7000 calorie weekly deficit, or 1000 calories a day.
My TDEE is a little above 2500. So that means I should be eating 1500 calories daily to achieve a 1000 calorie deficit.
I eat around 1300-1400, only because I'm leaving room for error when either counting calories burned exercising or slight estimating on food. Everyone is telling me I am eating too little. But if I eat more, I won't lose as much weight?
My question is: How do I still lose two pounds a week if I do not have a 7000 calorie deficit?
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter0 -
Fascinating.
Why is it so crazy to imagine that the human body would adapt to conditions?
I think we'd all readily agree that the body gets more efficient at certain cardio exercises, so you burn less. We're not afraid to believe that theory, because it means "you need to burn more/eat less".
But why would we NOT believe that the body adapts to consistently deep deficits? We're afraid to believe that, because it might indicate that a shallower deficit (ie, eating more, burning less) is a good idea.
This is a case of outcome bias.
And yes, I think that the adaptation may be very aligned with NEAT in the shorter term. In other words, you'd slow down because you're hungry. Heck, I'm COLD when I run a deep deficit. I can FEEL it. But it's also common sense that, if you lose fast (say 3 pounds a week when you're not obese), some of that will be muscle. And if you lose muscle, ultimately your metabolism will drop. So it would logically affect you in the longer term too.0 -
Call me slow, but I still have trouble understanding this.
For me, personally, I am trying to lose two pounds a week. So, that means a 7000 calorie weekly deficit, or 1000 calories a day.
My TDEE is a little above 2500. So that means I should be eating 1500 calories daily to achieve a 1000 calorie deficit.
I eat around 1300-1400, only because I'm leaving room for error when either counting calories burned exercising or slight estimating on food. Everyone is telling me I am eating too little. But if I eat more, I won't lose as much weight?
My question is: How do I still lose two pounds a week if I do not have a 7000 calorie deficit?
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
You don't... you can't tell your body how much to lose and by when. All you can do is do what you're supposed to do and let the results come. As i mentioned above a large deficit can lead to a stall out, has happened to many people including myself. The thing is to eat the right amount of calories. Here is how to set up your calories.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/975707-fat-loss-tactics-guide
Thank you!0 -
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I like this. Tagging for future reference.0
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You're completely correct.
However
I lost 1 lb a week (accurately) eating 1200 calories and I also lost 1 lb a week (accurately) eating 1650 calories.
Black magic? Maybe.
It's not a one-sized fits all answer for ever single individual. Do I want to believe that the mathematical logistics apply to everyone equally? Well, yeah. But who knows why it doesn't.
If I can lose 1 lb a week eating more or less, I choose more. If someone offered me a salary of 100,000 dollars a year, that'd be like me saying "nah, I'm good with 50,000".
The problem I have the large deficits isn't the fact of whether it works or not. Of course it works. When those people gain it all back and have ended up with a huge loss of LBM, THAT'S when they'll look for another way.
Exactly same thing with me. I lost a pound a week on 1200 calories, now I lose a pound a week eating 1500. I feel much more satisfied on 1500, I felt hungry all the time on 1200. Doesn't sound logical, but it happened.0 -
So then what would you say to me:
Lost 16 lbs from Jan to March (10 weeks) eating 1280 a day
Realized I was losing faster than planned and hungry all the time so I upped it to 1435
No real movement after 5 weeks so I moved it to 1561 using http://physiquelore.com/harris-benedict/
I am losing and gaining the same 2 lbs over the last 7 weeks.
I do have Hasimotos but if I am to believe my MD I am in a good range with my meds
Background: I am a 48 yrs old RN. I work 3 days a week, 2 of them I walk for 6 of the 8 hrs and 1 day I sit most of the time.
I do Leslie Sansone Walk at Home 2 mile (1/2 Brisk walk/ low impact aerobics) 3x week. Of course, I am a mom to 3 kids (2 at home) so I don't sit on the couch and do nothing. There is a house to clean, laundry to do, shopping, cooking, yard work etc...meaning I don't sit around and eat Bon Bons all day. I think my diet is ok. Some days the sodium could be better but I never go over 2500. ALWAYS drink my water. I was thinking maybe I should take in less carbs but other than that I feel like I am missing something or need to be more patient.
I don't do lifting or anything more because I suffer from Fibromyalgia and have Hashimoto's. Both of these leave me so exhausted it's crazy. I HAVE tried to work through the fatigue and muscle issues but it truly kills me. Not an excuse just a plain up fact. I argued with the MD over my diagnosis for years since I don't want to believe I can't somehow fix this! After 10 yrs of testing I gave in and accepted it but still want to lose this weight. The walking I do fine with so I decided to stay with only that.
Diary is open for constructive advise0 -
Yes Hashimotos is an autoimmune disease producing antibodies that attack the Thyroid. Makes you tired, increases cholesterol and a host of other fun stuff. BUT with hormone replacement I should be like any other person, again if I believe my MD which I do.
Yes, What I am saying is since I upped my calories to 1435 I can't lose weight.
Then I found your site (didn't realize it was yours) and felt it was sound advice so upped my calories again. It actually came out to TDEE -3500 a week 1561 (which is exactly what I am looking for - 1 lb a week loss).
Still not moving in the weight.. So, if I used your advice I would move down 10% which would take me back to somewhere around the 1435 I was already at.
I agree.. the question is, what is my true TDEE? And why did I lose weight in the beginning? I don't want to go that low again because I was really hungry!0 -
I believe that one of the problems is magnesium and/or iodine deficiency or deficiencies of other nutrients. Iodine deficiency is common--especially in areas where not a lot of seafood is eaten (plus, if your water is fluoridated, the fluorine ions fill the receptor sites for iodine to make matters worse). Makes for a wonky thyroid gland and lower metabolism.
When you go for a protracted period of time eating at a deficit, it is my theory that unless you are eating VERY well, you will develop nutritional deficiencies--with minerals being high on the list (yes, even if you take a multi every day). Studies show that about 85% of us have magnesium deficiencies (because we don't eat our veggies and fruits) which means that your body cannot efficiently convert T-4 (thyroxine) to the active form, T-3. So you could be pumping out T-4 but be clinically hypothyroid because you cannot convert it to T-3. And guess what? Your weight loss will stall.
Also, magnesium ions are essential for energy transport to the mitochondria. And while we are on the subject of energy transport, metabolizing sugar "uses up" ATP (involved with energy transport). You will feel sluggish if you are eating a lot of sugar and simple carbs. That is why you must eat VERY well on a caloric deficit.0 -
I personally take Magnesium for the Thyroid issues,
D Ribose for energy, to help with ATP production
ALA and ALC , and CoQ10 to help with memory issues from who knows what (fibromayalgia or Hashimotos). They actually help. Without these I am in constant pain, cold and can't think clear to save my life!0 -
I personally take Magnesium for the Thyroid issues,
D Ribose for energy, to help with ATP production
ALA and ALC , and CoQ10 to help with memory issues from who knows what (fibromayalgia or Hashimotos). They actually help. Without these I am in constant pain, cold and can't think clear to save my life!
Excellent! Sounds like you know your stuff (which is essential because the medical establishment (in general) is uh...less than competent, to deal with most thyroid disease). Before anyone decides to flame me, check out the disastrous treatment that many on the thyroid forum have had to endure.
ETA: Since Hashi is an autoimmune condition, Vitamin D is very important. Some interesting research is suggesting that it will down-regulate a hyper-excitable immune response. May help in addition to all the other stuff.0 -
Actually, I think you're overlooking an important factor: diet-induced adaptive thermogenesis. This, in my opinion accounts for most of the cases we see on here of weight loss stalling out when eating LCDs.
Here's some additional info for you if you're not familiar with the concept or science behind it.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/97/5/990.short
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ijo2012124a.html
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v34/n1s/full/ijo2010184a.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2012.01041.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false0 -
I agree to a point... I was starving at 1280! I really don't want to go back there
And I lost no weight at 1435 after 5 weeks
No weight lose at 1560 after 3 weeks
I will probably try 1500 although I don't see why 60 calories would make that much of a difference.
I guess I am just whining and wanted to feel sorry for myself. I know the answer is that it will be a constant battle to find the right number but I just wanted to see if I was missing something in my diary. I know... wishful thinking
Thanks for your advice!0 -
I'm new on the message boards and I'm in a stall these posts confused me I don't rea:sick: lly understand what to do to get p:frown: ast this stall I have a good scale and measure everything that goes in my stomach was on 1300 calories just up to 1400 I need helput0
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I personally take Magnesium for the Thyroid issues,
D Ribose for energy, to help with ATP production
ALA and ALC , and CoQ10 to help with memory issues from who knows what (fibromayalgia or Hashimotos). They actually help. Without these I am in constant pain, cold and can't think clear to save my life!
Excellent! Sounds like you know your stuff (which is essential because the medical establishment (in general) is uh...less than competent, to deal with most thyroid disease). Before anyone decides to flame me, check out the disastrous treatment that many on the thyroid forum have had to endure.
ETA: Since Hashi is an autoimmune condition, Vitamin D is very important. Some interesting research is suggesting that it will down-regulate a hyper-excitable immune response. May help in addition to all the other stuff.
I have had my D level checked. Being an RN has put me in the position to ask many MD's advice and it was a pain management Doc who said the first thing he checks is a D level. Mine was normal, but it may be something to review again.0 -
i tracked my food religiously for months (on my own, not here) and never cheated. i was putting in 3 hours of treadmill 5 days a week - 13 miles in total (plus strength m/w/f). calculators said i was easily burning 1000+ a day (more like 1200+). i stopped losing, which is why i found this site.
i was eating 1600 cals a day. i now try to eat 2000 calories, and lose weight. i changed my workout to only an hour at higher intensity, though runner's world says i now lose 680 vs the 1200 or so it used to be.
To be clear - i burn half the cals, and eat 400-500 cals more a day... and broke a plateau and lose at least the same amount of weight i did before. I added those calories all at breakfast, adding oatmeal+ to my existing breakfast, and added a clif bar to go with my lunch.
So... I upped my cals hundreds, and lowered my burn... and started losing. I know that doesn't seem mathematically possible, but it certainly worked for me, regardless.
I'm sure there's some 'reason'. However, none of the OP's ideas are apply to me. I weigh everything on a scale. I don't cheat on my diet, and i log every thing that goes into me accurately. I never skip exercise. i don't go to restaurants.0 -
Thank you for your post. For some of us eating more to lose weight does not work. However if you are one of those that is able to lose more weight by eating more then I envy you.0
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Thank you for your post. For some of us eating more to lose weight does not work. However if you are one of those that is able to lose more weight by eating more then I envy you.
oh, i agree it doesn't make much sense. then again, neither did it make sense that i completely stopped losing weight going 13 miles a day and eating approx 1600 cals a day (male).
it wasn't till i found this site, and figured out my bmr/tdee that i even realized i wasn't eating enough. i had just put together what sounded like a good meal plan and stuck to it (and it worked for about 22 pounds till it stalled).
adding hundreds of cals a day didn't feel 'right', but i took a chance on it. the bmr/tdee stuff made sense, and me not losing weight didn't... so i figured it was worth a shot. glad i did -- love oatmeal, and now i get to have it with lots of toppings every morning. plus i have 2 extra hours a day from shortening my workout.
i'm guessing it requires a specific set of circumstances though.0
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