What is "Processed Food"?

Laurelthequeen

i've got bread in one cupboard that i forgot about. it's been there for at least 6 months and hasn't gone bad. processed in the extreme and never to be eaten...

That's terrifying. I stopped buying most breads (I still occasionally buy ezekiel or dave's killer breads), after I really started making my own bread more often and seeing how fast it would go from fresh to moldy. After that, I knew that storebought breads I was bringing home had something added to keep them soft and pliable and not moldy.

jonnythan

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

Logical_Integrity

unless you live in amish country, most things are processed. which isn't always a bad thing

I DO live in Amish Country :laugh: and I sell products to a lot of Amish kitchens. I have never seen MSG on their shelves

I define "processed" food as something I couldn't make myself.

There are exceptions like yogurt or cheese, sure I COULD make it myself. After this thought process I to go:

Can I pronounce the ingredients?
or
The One Ingredient train of thought. What is in carrots? Carrots. What is in Chicken? Chicken. Now I am ok mixing carrots with chicken to make something.

UH OH!!! Stop eating carrots!!! Here are a few things found in carrots.
Polyacetylenes, falcarinol, hydroxymellein, methoxymellein, eugenin, trimethoxybenzaldehyde (gazarin), acetoxy-heptadeca can also be found in carrot.

ldrosophila

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

Which one will be more appealing to the consumer if it sits there on the shelves for a week? The amount of produce that gets thrown out because it is unacceptable to consumers is so sad. Talk about wasting food! How many people would buy an apple that was covered in worm holes and bruises? Sadly, I can say I would turn my nose to the wormy apple or the black banana. Well in modern society...not uncommon to buy meat covered in flies sitting out in the sun and chicken with pin feathers and head attached when you live outside of modern society.

Hmmmmm, makes me think taking whole foods and reducing it to the most shelf stable and appealing form is consumer driven.

Sorry off on a little tangent.

Theindomitablejeeves

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

It seems to me you're conflating packaged food with processed food. I'm not arguing the benefits of packaging. But efficient packaging does not necessarily equate to processed (see low ingredient organic, boxed cereals). There is a distinction between this, and my initial point that a consumable that can sit on a shelf forever and still be useable might not be the best thing for repeat sales.

dbmata

Packaged food can be produced easily in large volume, transported easily, stored easily, and sold easily. It's easy to quantify, and very little is lost due to damage or spoilage as compared to fresh/whole/bulk foods. It takes up less space on the shelves.

It's easier for production, shipping, inventory, and sales.

^This.

Then you add preservatives into the mix, and extend shelf life, while maintaining the same consistent flavor and look. What that does is reduce the chance of loss due to spoilage, and ensures that a consumer can buy, eat at leisure, store if needed, and continue to buy, and that the store selling it won't have to ship any returns because of bad or inconsistent product. Margins on packaged, preserved foods are a lot better than margins on highly volatile stock like meat and produce when you factor loss rates.

Which comes around to show just how important preservatives are to ensure that the end user gets a consistent product, no matter how long that item has been away from the producer, which in turn increases revenue.

dbmata

Hmmmmm, makes me think taking whole foods and reducing it to the most shelf stable and appealing form is consumer driven.

It is, 100%.

jonnythan

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

It seems to me you're conflating packaged food with processed food. I'm not arguing the benefits of packaging. But efficient packaging does not necessarily equate to processed (see low ingredient organic, boxed cereals). There is a distinction between this, and my initial point that a consumable that can sit on a shelf forever and still be useable might not be the best thing for repeat sales.

This is the problem with crazy definitions of "processed." Low-ingredient boxed cereals are still heavily processed, even if they don't have scary-sounding ingredients.

Theindomitablejeeves

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

It seems to me you're conflating packaged food with processed food. I'm not arguing the benefits of packaging. But efficient packaging does not necessarily equate to processed (see low ingredient organic, boxed cereals). There is a distinction between this, and my initial point that a consumable that can sit on a shelf forever and still be useable might not be the best thing for repeat sales.

This is the problem with crazy definitions of "processed." Low-ingredient boxed cereals are still heavily processed, even if they don't have scary-sounding ingredients.

Ok fine, substitute whole oats in a nice, cylindrical, barcoded, stackable container.

jonnythan

You have to think in terms of efficiency when it comes to farm-to-table cost. Is it more efficient to transport a truck full of apples, or a truck full of little plastic tubs of applesauce? Which will have more loss to spoilage/damage/bugs/temperature effects? Which is easier at the checkout counter - scanning a barcode, or weighing a bag of apples? Which will have more spoiled and damaged on the shelves? Which one is easier to stack?

The cost of processing a raw food is peanuts compared to the costs of transport, display, loss, and checkout.

It seems to me you're conflating packaged food with processed food. I'm not arguing the benefits of packaging. But efficient packaging does not necessarily equate to processed (see low ingredient organic, boxed cereals). There is a distinction between this, and my initial point that a consumable that can sit on a shelf forever and still be useable might not be the best thing for repeat sales.

This is the problem with crazy definitions of "processed." Low-ingredient boxed cereals are still heavily processed, even if they don't have scary-sounding ingredients.

Ok fine, substitute whole oats in a nice, cylindrical, barcoded, stackable container.

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Theindomitablejeeves

eat at leisure, store if needed, and continue to buy, and that the store selling it won't have to ship any returns because of bad or inconsistent product.

So this comes back to my ignorance on grocery operations - is the manufacturer responsible for damaged/spoiled product that occurs on the shelves, or is the store? I'm asking - I don't know.

And if I'm storing something, I'm not continuing to buy. I'm maximizing the time between purchases. If I buy 6 apples that will go bad in 4 days, but only end up eating one a day, I'll have 2 bad apples on day 5. But I want an apple on day 5, so clearly I go buy more. If I bought processed apples that last forever, that apple company loses out on a secondary sale.

I realize product has to last long enough to get to market and meet product quality expectations of consumers, but there has to be a balance. Just making product that lasts forever and can sit in my cupboard that long cannot be the best recipe for long term sales.

Theindomitablejeeves

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Oy. That's fine with me.

jonnythan

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Oy. That's fine with me.

And it should be. "Processed" doesn't mean "bad" even though people keep wanting to use it that way.

Processing raw foods makes them easier to transport, store, display, and sell. It significantly reduces loss due to damage and spoilage. You can also process raw foods that people would not buy (because they don't look good/are bruised/etc) or could not use at home (because they lack the equipment necessary to make it edible/palatable), thus increasing raw yields. That's why processed food is generally cheaper.

Velum_cado

unless you live in amish country, most things are processed. which isn't always a bad thing

Fun fact: Even Amish people eat processed food and fast food.

holothuroidea

Unfortunately, "processed" is a term that was coined somewhere, and not technically correct, but widely accepted to mean foods not near to their original state and having been refined, or nutritionally void ingredients added. It's kind of like how the term "organic" has come to mean "grown without the use of pesticides or chemical fertilizers". But really, the word organic means:

of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds (according to Webster's Dictionary).

I hope you'll excuse my nitpicking for a minute.

This is the chemistry definition of "organic," but the use of the word organic predates chemistry. It has the same root as words like "organism" and "organ" and it generally refers to things that are a part of a living system.

In chemistry, we call the chemistry of carbon compounds "organic chemistry" because carbon compounds are the main chemical components of living systems.

The use of the term "organic" for produce is quite accurate (or at least it was in the 60's at the beginning of the organic movement, organic means a lot less now than it used to) because it describes plants grown with respect to the entire living system including the soil and the insects.

Willowana

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Yes, you can buy whole oats.

http://www.google.com/shopping/product/13266731642685331879?q=whole oats&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.45580626,d.eWU&biw=1280&bih=968&wrapid=tlif136682057745221&sa=X&ei=4QZ4UeHwHYbq8wSAvYGIDw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAI

jonnythan

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Yes, you can buy whole oats.

http://www.google.com/shopping/product/13266731642685331879?q=whole oats&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.45580626,d.eWU&biw=1280&bih=968&wrapid=tlif136682057745221&sa=X&ei=4QZ4UeHwHYbq8wSAvYGIDw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAI

That's animal feed. It doesn't come in a cardboard tube on the grocery store shelves. I guess I should have said "you can't buy whole oats in the grocery store."

sheldonz42

I processed the rosemary from my garden....I picked it.:bigsmile:

:huh:

Technically all food is processed, even from my garden. Not to be confused with cinnamon roll Captain Crunch with rosemary.

picking =/= processing

processing = adding of ingredients or denaturing the natural state of the food. picking and apple does not denature the apple.

You missed my point, carry on.

i understand your point, it's the same one i was making, however, i just would like to clarify that not all foods are processed. not even "technically"

Sorry, but picking IS a process. Just like chopping carrots with my food PROCESSOR, is processing carrots.

dbmata

You can't buy whole oats. You can buy steel cut, rolled, etc. They've all been harvested and then mechanically processed to remove the indigestible/inedible parts, and then dried. Pretty much everything you can buy in a box or jar has been processed.

Yes, you can buy whole oats.

http://www.google.com/shopping/product/13266731642685331879?q=whole oats&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.45580626,d.eWU&biw=1280&bih=968&wrapid=tlif136682057745221&sa=X&ei=4QZ4UeHwHYbq8wSAvYGIDw&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAI

That's animal feed. It doesn't come in a cardboard tube on the grocery store shelves. I guess I should have said "you can't buy whole oats in the grocery store."

They have whole oats, whole barley, and whole red winter wheat at one of the local hipster groceries near me, as well as at one of the Winco Foods near me. Winco has it bulk, the hipsters have it in old timey looking boxes.

CoachReddy

I processed the rosemary from my garden....I picked it.:bigsmile:

:huh:

Technically all food is processed, even from my garden. Not to be confused with cinnamon roll Captain Crunch with rosemary.

picking =/= processing

processing = adding of ingredients or denaturing the natural state of the food. picking and apple does not denature the apple.

You missed my point, carry on.

i understand your point, it's the same one i was making, however, i just would like to clarify that not all foods are processed. not even "technically"

Sorry, but picking IS a process. Just like chopping carrots with my food PROCESSOR, is processing carrots.

lol it is a "process" but that doesn't mean the food is "processed" in the connotation being used here.

do you think the fluke of a whale is the same thing as a fluke accident?

do you think a bow tie is a tie taking a bow?

homonyms people... the english language is tricky I know.