MFP vs IPOARM vs Level Obstacles
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umm alright I did Level obstacles information just for some giggles. off the bat I know it wouldn't work for me
I weight 302lbs and am 5'3 26yr old female it said my TDEE was 3315 - I work out 5 to 6 times a week. it said for 20% off that I would be 2,652 that I would need to eat....umm that doesn't even go close to what IPOARM has me at.
IPOARM lists me off as
Sedentary: 2299 (little or none)
Light Activity: 2635(3 days)
Moderately Active: 2970 (5 days)- would be what I am at
TDEE x .80= BMR (20%)
Sedentary: 1839-
Light: 2108-
Moderately: 2376
sooooo were did the Level Obstacles decide on such a HUGE number of 3,315. I would be gaining weight if I followed what they would have me at. thats close to like 400 calories more than what IPOARM is listing for me.. I am lucky if I can reach some of these numbers in a day and normally stay close to my Sedentary amount
Not sure, but what did you put as your goal weight for IPOARM? I used their calculator and I had to put 220 as your goal because any lower kept giving me a red flag. This is what I got for you
Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 2143
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 2456
Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 2768
Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 3081
Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 3393
I did the site : http://www.fitnessfrog.com/calculators/tdee-calculator.html
put in my info like it said too and got 3,315 just going off the moderately active and did the calculations for 20% (x .80) off and got the 2652.
I didn't do all the others as I am mainly staying to the moderately active now.0 -
Real talk, I lost my weight the MFP way, but the MFP way works well right out of the box for men while giving women a much too low calorie allowance (IMO). From what I've seen in my year on the boards, it's primarily women that have something to gain by following either IPOARM or Level Obstacles. Either method gives an alternative to weight loss that gives women a more realistic calorie goal while still letting them lose weight on a steady basis that avoids plateaus.
Are you suggesting women may be a bit too impatient when they select 2lb weekly and sedentary no matter what?
Or men just aren't affected as negatively by the big surplus? Well, that true.
Or men are wimps, and change that 2 lb to 1 lb after about a week, women fight through it until not hungry, wondering how they could possibly manager to eat 1000 calories?
Good question and I should clarify my statement.
What I've noticed is that the MFP algorithm skews markedly lower when estimating the female metabolism compared to males. If a 200 pound male says he wants to lose 2 pounds per week, he gets 1800. If a 200 pound female asks to lose the same, she gets 1350 or something. (note-I'm pulling these numbers out of my *kitten* since I'm not going to reset my goals to get actuals). What I'm saying is that women get assigned 1200 calories at an alarmingly high rate by MFP, but the men get a much more reasonable number.
Using IPOARM or Level Obstacles gives women the opportunity to eat real meals while losing weight instead of trying to get full on half cucumber and lemon-water lunches. I'm sure there are other reasons to choose between the three methods, but if I'm giving someone one of these links, it's always because I'm trying to get them to eat more.
Re: the aggression factor. Haven't done any real studying of this but I think both males and females are equally aggressive when it comes to using the 2 lbs per week target as a goal. Seems like it would be basic human nature to want to get to goal sooner. It's not until much later, after reading tons of info that one realizes that 1 lb or less will work much better. Speaking for myself, I was trying to rig the system for a 3 lb loss, and MFP could have had fireworks and magic fairies fly off the screen for the recommended 1 lb per week setting and I still would have ignored the holy hell out of it.0 -
umm alright I did Level obstacles information just for some giggles. off the bat I know it wouldn't work for me
I weight 302lbs and am 5'3 26yr old female it said my TDEE was 3315 - I work out 5 to 6 times a week. it said for 20% off that I would be 2,652 that I would need to eat....umm that doesn't even go close to what IPOARM has me at.
IPOARM lists me off as
Sedentary: 2299 (little or none)
Light Activity: 2635(3 days)
Moderately Active: 2970 (5 days)- would be what I am at
TDEE x .80= BMR (20%)
Sedentary: 1839-
Light: 2108-
Moderately: 2376
sooooo were did the Level Obstacles decide on such a HUGE number of 3,315. I would be gaining weight if I followed what they would have me at. thats close to like 400 calories more than what IPOARM is listing for me.. I am lucky if I can reach some of these numbers in a day and normally stay close to my Sedentary amount
I don't think you would gain weight if your TDEE was 3315 and ate 2600. At 302 female 26 I would guess your BMR to be between 1800-2000 with at TDEE of around 3000-3300. So I don't think Levels is that far off. However, being at that current weight you are allotted a larger deficit so...use it to your advantage while you can.
All of the methods work (if used correctly), I just thought it would be nice to get some input back as to what people use and why they chose that specific method.0 -
I did a 2lb loss because I am 302lbs, so I know my body can loose a ton of weight fast even if I did the 1lb a week thing. So I am just right now not even worrying about what I would have it listed as, as I am loosing weight so I am just going to say what I am doing is right for me. I mean maybe later on down the road, who knows.
can't tell the future only the present time. 0 -
umm alright I did Level obstacles information just for some giggles. off the bat I know it wouldn't work for me
I weight 302lbs and am 5'3 26yr old female it said my TDEE was 3315 - I work out 5 to 6 times a week. it said for 20% off that I would be 2,652 that I would need to eat....umm that doesn't even go close to what IPOARM has me at.
IPOARM lists me off as
Sedentary: 2299 (little or none)
Light Activity: 2635(3 days)
Moderately Active: 2970 (5 days)- would be what I am at
TDEE x .80= BMR (20%)
Sedentary: 1839-
Light: 2108-
Moderately: 2376
sooooo were did the Level Obstacles decide on such a HUGE number of 3,315. I would be gaining weight if I followed what they would have me at. thats close to like 400 calories more than what IPOARM is listing for me.. I am lucky if I can reach some of these numbers in a day and normally stay close to my Sedentary amount
I don't think you would gain weight if your TDEE was 3315 and ate 2600. At 302 female 26 I would guess your BMR to be between 1800-2000 with at TDEE of around 3000-3300. So I don't think Levels is that far off. However, being at that current weight you are allotted a larger deficit so...use it to your advantage while you can.
All of the methods work (if used correctly), I just thought it would be nice to get some input back as to what people use and why they chose that specific method.
fair enough, I could do a larger deficit. but I want to loose my weight slowly so I can tone up all the flabby crap that will come with loosing. 0 -
umm alright I did Level obstacles information just for some giggles. off the bat I know it wouldn't work for me
I weight 302lbs and am 5'3 26yr old female it said my TDEE was 3315 - I work out 5 to 6 times a week. it said for 20% off that I would be 2,652 that I would need to eat....umm that doesn't even go close to what IPOARM has me at.
IPOARM lists me off as
Sedentary: 2299 (little or none)
Light Activity: 2635(3 days)
Moderately Active: 2970 (5 days)- would be what I am at
TDEE x .80= BMR (20%)
Sedentary: 1839-
Light: 2108-
Moderately: 2376
sooooo were did the Level Obstacles decide on such a HUGE number of 3,315. I would be gaining weight if I followed what they would have me at. thats close to like 400 calories more than what IPOARM is listing for me.. I am lucky if I can reach some of these numbers in a day and normally stay close to my Sedentary amount
I'm going to start with saying that a 2300 TDEE for a 300 pound human being sounds a bit suspect. But I'm a broscience guy and not a run numbers and post links guy so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
But assuming your numbers are correct, it seems to me both methods would work perfectly fine. You'd lose a bit faster with the IPOARM way, but with the Level Obstacles way you wouldn't have to adjust your daily calories when you hit goal. Essentially you would have spent about two years training yourself to eat the way you would need to eat for the rest of your life. Either way is fine, just a matter of personal choice, IMO.0 -
umm alright I did Level obstacles information just for some giggles. off the bat I know it wouldn't work for me
I weight 302lbs and am 5'3 26yr old female it said my TDEE was 3315 - I work out 5 to 6 times a week. it said for 20% off that I would be 2,652 that I would need to eat....umm that doesn't even go close to what IPOARM has me at.
IPOARM lists me off as
Sedentary: 2299 (little or none)
Light Activity: 2635(3 days)
Moderately Active: 2970 (5 days)- would be what I am at
TDEE x .80= BMR (20%)
Sedentary: 1839-
Light: 2108-
Moderately: 2376
sooooo were did the Level Obstacles decide on such a HUGE number of 3,315. I would be gaining weight if I followed what they would have me at. thats close to like 400 calories more than what IPOARM is listing for me.. I am lucky if I can reach some of these numbers in a day and normally stay close to my Sedentary amount
I don't think you would gain weight if your TDEE was 3315 and ate 2600. At 302 female 26 I would guess your BMR to be between 1800-2000 with at TDEE of around 3000-3300. So I don't think Levels is that far off. However, being at that current weight you are allotted a larger deficit so...use it to your advantage while you can.
All of the methods work (if used correctly), I just thought it would be nice to get some input back as to what people use and why they chose that specific method.
fair enough, I could do a larger deficit. but I want to loose my weight slowly so I can tone up all the flabby crap that will come with loosing.
Hey if its working...Rock on! Do what works for you...That's my philosophy...Keep it up! Thanks for posting0 -
Honestly I use a mix... I used IPOARM to figure out my TDEE and BMR... there was no way I could survive on 1200 cals...
My daily goal is set to my TDEE- 15% for days I do nothing (ie sit on my butt watching netflixs, knitting, or sewing all day) Since my activity levels vary greatly from day to day due my health/pain issues I log my exercise and eat most of my exercise cals back, up to about 2100 cals- any more and I am forcing myself to eat.
I slack with my macros... I watch to make sure my carbs are not more than 50% of my intake, nor have copious amounts of sugar, or sodium- again because of my health issues.... I try to get at least 80 grams of protein- but with my allergies/sensitivities it can be difficult, and fat I gave up worrying about...
So far I have lost 10 lbs in 7 weeks, and about 16 inches and my body fat has gone from 35-37% to 30-32%!
I never heard of level Obstacles before, but it is a lot less confusing than IPOARM but they both seem to work on the same TDEE- give or take 20% idea.
I am coping the website just so I can find it again...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/952996-level-obstacles-lose-weight-target-fat-easy0 -
to be honest I don't change much. Even on huge workout days I keep it at 1839. I eat what my body needs and make it work for the amount of calories and other things provided. I am trying to keep this food thing as simple as possible. IPOARM just made sense to me. Before reading anything I was a MFP slave to their ways and didn't even know I need to eat my exercise calories back so I was plateaued after loosing some weight and then I found out about about IPOARM and have been loosing ever sense. I mean I should probably change it from 1839 but the absolute highest I ever got to was 1660 in calories and half the time I don't feel hungry and just need to insert food in mouth to keep my calories up.. so yeah...I am still learning as I go lol0
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Real talk, I lost my weight the MFP way, but the MFP way works well right out of the box for men while giving women a much too low calorie allowance (IMO). From what I've seen in my year on the boards, it's primarily women that have something to gain by following either IPOARM or Level Obstacles. Either method gives an alternative to weight loss that gives women a more realistic calorie goal while still letting them lose weight on a steady basis that avoids plateaus.
Yes it's usually lower for women. It's because women have a lower TDEE than men usually.
For example a woman with about 1,800 calorie TDEE and a man with 2,500 calories. Both want to lose 1lbs.
Women
1,800 - 500lbs = 1300 calories(28% deficit)
Man
2,500 - 500 = 2,000 calories(20% deficit)
This is only a 1lbs loss, most people shoot for more and the deficit will be greater. The bigger your deficit the more likely you will stall out with your weight loss.
We're in agreement on principle, it's just that I always look at how things are applied in actual use. And nobody comes on here and sets themselves on 1 lb per week loss. They may only have 4 total pounds to lose, but they will still set their initial goals at 2 lbs per week and the female will get 1200 as a goal every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
We get sarcastic and snippy with them in the forums (and by we, I mean ME) for having only a few pounds to lose but setting their loss rate at 2 lbs, but they had no way of knowing that 1 lb or less would be so much more effective. No one arrives on this site with an advanced degree in nutrition and fitness. I'm sarcastic because it amuses me (and I'm an ahole) but the reason I keep answering the same questions over and over and over is because I understand where those folks are coming from and realize they had no way to know better until someone directly told them.0 -
Real talk, I lost my weight the MFP way, but the MFP way works well right out of the box for men while giving women a much too low calorie allowance (IMO). From what I've seen in my year on the boards, it's primarily women that have something to gain by following either IPOARM or Level Obstacles. Either method gives an alternative to weight loss that gives women a more realistic calorie goal while still letting them lose weight on a steady basis that avoids plateaus.
Yes it's usually lower for women. It's because women have a lower TDEE than men usually.
For example a woman with about 1,800 calorie TDEE and a man with 2,500 calories. Both want to lose 1lbs.
Women
1,800 - 500lbs = 1300 calories(28% deficit)
Man
2,500 - 500 = 2,000 calories(20% deficit)
This is only a 1lbs loss, most people shoot for more and the deficit will be greater. The bigger your deficit the more likely you will stall out with your weight loss.
@PU I know you like to research things....some I agree....some not so much... But have you looked at what percentage deficit is minimal, optimal, and max in relationship to the new method your ensuing IPOARM v3. Trying to say, body fat % in relation to optimal percentage deficit (if that makes sense).0 -
Not sure, but what did you put as your goal weight for IPOARM? I used their calculator and I had to put 220 as your goal because any lower kept giving me a red flag. This is what I got for you
IPOARM doesn't use the fat2fit site for their method of eating basically TDEE at goal weight (or close as you discovered).
IPOARM uses it because the bodyfat calc's are there, and then uses the BMR calc as normal TDEE levels by using CW as GW entry too.
The big fault I don't like about it is it uses Harris BMR, worst inflated when overweight, for the eating goal levels. Not the Katch it displays.0 -
And yes, as PU pointed out earlier...Levels Obstacles was a collaboration of a bunch of people.
People who have been on MFP for awhile and who not only have experience and great knowledge under their belts, but who have seen all the constant repeat questions, concerns and confusion.
They decided to figure out a way to simplify things for those just starting out or who had been confused and were now seeking out a better understanding of MFP's system and TDEE/BMR, etc.
So, Levels was really created with the newcomer in mind.0 -
Not sure, but what did you put as your goal weight for IPOARM? I used their calculator and I had to put 220 as your goal because any lower kept giving me a red flag. This is what I got for you
IPOARM doesn't use the fat2fit site for their method of eating basically TDEE at goal weight (or close as you discovered).
IPOARM uses it because the bodyfat calc's are there, and then uses the BMR calc as normal TDEE levels by using CW as GW entry too.
The big fault I don't like about it is it uses Harris BMR, worst inflated when overweight, for the eating goal levels. Not the Katch it displays.
I'm with you on this BMR calc. So, what are your thoughts on averaging the BMR. I used http://1percentedge.com where I could select an average of several BMR's. Its a IMF calc. which looks complex but after playing with it quite a bit, I found it useful.0 -
hmmmmm... so watch should I weigh? 5'2 , 100 pounds. Healthy. I really don't care for formulas and predictions. I go my my ability to move my body. Why are all of you fighting over formulas?
*i'm so over pop up docs.0 -
Edited to keep thread on track, no need for more peanuts from the gallery.
MFP style, using level obstacles/IPOARM/EFFY process.0 -
Real talk, I lost my weight the MFP way, but the MFP way works well right out of the box for men while giving women a much too low calorie allowance (IMO). From what I've seen in my year on the boards, it's primarily women that have something to gain by following either IPOARM or Level Obstacles. Either method gives an alternative to weight loss that gives women a more realistic calorie goal while still letting them lose weight on a steady basis that avoids plateaus.
Yes it's usually lower for women. It's because women have a lower TDEE than men usually.
For example a woman with about 1,800 calorie TDEE and a man with 2,500 calories. Both want to lose 1lbs.
Women
1,800 - 500lbs = 1300 calories(28% deficit)
Man
2,500 - 500 = 2,000 calories(20% deficit)
This is only a 1lbs loss, most people shoot for more and the deficit will be greater. The bigger your deficit the more likely you will stall out with your weight loss.
We're in agreement on principle, it's just that I always look at how things are applied in actual use. And nobody comes on here and sets themselves on 1 lb per week loss. They may only have 4 total pounds to lose, but they will still set their initial goals at 2 lbs per week and the female will get 1200 as a goal every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
We get sarcastic and snippy with them in the forums (and by we, I mean ME) for having only a few pounds to lose but setting their loss rate at 2 lbs, but they had no way of knowing that 1 lb or less would be so much more effective. No one comes arrives on this site with an advanced degree in nutrition and fitness. I'm sarcastic because it amuses me (and I'm an ahole) but the reason I keep answering the same questions over and over and over is because I understand where those folks are coming from and realize they had no way to know better until someone directly told them.
I would like to point out he's squatting 405 lbs in his ticker. That is all, carry on.0 -
All I know is this forum is confusing me....I need to go double check all my things to make sure I am were I should be0
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I would like to point out he's squatting 405 lbs in his ticker. That is all, carry on.
Thank you, I was trying to add that up too, but the smaller weights on the left fooled me.0 -
In for the ensuing argument. And Dave's big mouth. And gunz.
I lost weight by exercising hella often and not counting calories so....probably not eating enough. If I had it to do over again, level is what I'd choose. Currently I eat tdee - % to continue dropping body fat, etc.0
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