Anyone working toward going vegetarian?
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Replies
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I am mostly vegan for health/religious/ethical reason. Feel free to add me if you'd like! Would love to have another veggie friend :drinker:0
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Honestly if you could buy range free animals I dont see why you wouldnt be in support of animal rights.I've seen the PETA videos and know what goes on in the slaughterhouses, and that's a huge factor in my decision to move toward vegetarianism. I've owned horses for decades and have been through the horse slaughter debate, and then I had to ask myself why it was so repugnant to me that people inhumanely slaughter and eat horses when I can happily eat a cow or chicken or other animal raised and killed inhumanely.
It's taken me this long because I have Eastern European heritage, which meant growing up on things like blood sausage and hackepeter, a German dish that is basically ground raw filet with a raw egg. But it's getting easier with all the meat substitutes, and even though I don't plan to go vegan, good alternatives like almond milk are allowing me to still move away from some dairy products.
I'm also lucky to live in a fairly veg-friendly area. I'm near Disney, and last year at the Food and Wine Festival they had their first-ever vegan booth. It was jam-packed with people, and I swear at least some of them had no idea the chili was vegan. I was at a media event there last week, and one person was vegetarian. At our French dinner in Epcot, I actually envied her the amazing meal they prepared.
It's going to be an interesting journey, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long time, and I see it as a way of living more genuinely. I'm sure I'll always have a bit of a craving for meat like I was raised on, but I think I can make the leap.
Technically buying range free products will increase the demand and it will eventually be cheaper.
Eating an animal is one thing, torturing it is another
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.0 -
I'm more plant based than vegetarian basically because of the recent studies concerning bacteria in poultry & antibiotic's in beef/ect. Also I try to avoid food scavenger type ... such as catfish & alot of seafood that are bottom feeders. Basically fish that are caught, some eggs, no dairy because I'm somewhat lactose intolerant. I like morningstar farms, quinoa is one of the few non-meat foods that you can get complete protein from. I take a super B complex with C vitamin because I've been a little low on iron. It's a personal choice for me, my family are all meat eaters, and love to hunt. I occassionally eat elk, antelope, or deer if they hunted it and processed it. Try to avoid GMO's, & try to buy organic
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instantly killing something is different.
Honestly if you could buy range free animals I dont see why you wouldnt be in support of animal rights.I've seen the PETA videos and know what goes on in the slaughterhouses, and that's a huge factor in my decision to move toward vegetarianism. I've owned horses for decades and have been through the horse slaughter debate, and then I had to ask myself why it was so repugnant to me that people inhumanely slaughter and eat horses when I can happily eat a cow or chicken or other animal raised and killed inhumanely.
It's taken me this long because I have Eastern European heritage, which meant growing up on things like blood sausage and hackepeter, a German dish that is basically ground raw filet with a raw egg. But it's getting easier with all the meat substitutes, and even though I don't plan to go vegan, good alternatives like almond milk are allowing me to still move away from some dairy products.
I'm also lucky to live in a fairly veg-friendly area. I'm near Disney, and last year at the Food and Wine Festival they had their first-ever vegan booth. It was jam-packed with people, and I swear at least some of them had no idea the chili was vegan. I was at a media event there last week, and one person was vegetarian. At our French dinner in Epcot, I actually envied her the amazing meal they prepared.
It's going to be an interesting journey, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long time, and I see it as a way of living more genuinely. I'm sure I'll always have a bit of a craving for meat like I was raised on, but I think I can make the leap.
Technically buying range free products will increase the demand and it will eventually be cheaper.
Eating an animal is one thing, torturing it is another
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.
If someone shot me in the head I wouldnt feel pain. if they kicked me around and slashed my neck as i bleed to death. Thats different
A kosher slaughter or a bullet to the head would be much more humane than torturing it.
Animals eat other animals but they usually kill it with minor suffering. It is normal to do so
Range free kosher slaughtering.0 -
I support animal rights. I buy range free meat, milk, and eggs if it is available for me. One of hte main reasons I love chipotleI actually went vegetarian at age 9 (Don't start with the "So unhealthy! Where were your parents? crap because they supported me and I went to a doctor regularly to make sure it was okay) And this may not work for you, but for me, just looking at videos of animals dying in a slaughter house did it for me. I started on morals ground, and that's why I'm still there, it's been 9 years and I don't crave meat at all anymore. It just becomes a part of your life. Think in moral terms, watch some PETA videos, you won't touch it.
I am fine with the health of vegetarians or pescetarians. I do not support veganism(raw vegans especially).
If people choose that lifestyle that is fine, but to claim it veganism is healthy is absurd).
While you can obtain those vitamins from supplements. You shouldnt have to resort to supplements or fortified food(which pretty much has supplements added to it) to make sure you get adequate b12 in order for your diet to be healthy. On top of that you shouldnt have to be 100% dependent upon supplements to make sure your baby isnt born with a neurological problem
My problem is if someone says it is healthier than being an omnivore.
Veganism can be healthy provided the person eats properly. Any diet can be healthy for a specific person if done correctly. A diet that includes meat isn't always a healthier diet. Opinions are opinions on diet... one is not always better than another.
I don't eat meat. Haven't in a year. I also rarely if ever eat any form of animal product (I consume maybe two eggs a month, a bit of cream in coffee and that's about it) yet don't supplement with B vitamins. When I was eating fully vegan I also didn't need to supplement outside of nutritional yeast however I don't consider that a supplement as I use it often for recipes.0 -
instantly killing something is different.
Honestly if you could buy range free animals I dont see why you wouldnt be in support of animal rights.I've seen the PETA videos and know what goes on in the slaughterhouses, and that's a huge factor in my decision to move toward vegetarianism. I've owned horses for decades and have been through the horse slaughter debate, and then I had to ask myself why it was so repugnant to me that people inhumanely slaughter and eat horses when I can happily eat a cow or chicken or other animal raised and killed inhumanely.
It's taken me this long because I have Eastern European heritage, which meant growing up on things like blood sausage and hackepeter, a German dish that is basically ground raw filet with a raw egg. But it's getting easier with all the meat substitutes, and even though I don't plan to go vegan, good alternatives like almond milk are allowing me to still move away from some dairy products.
I'm also lucky to live in a fairly veg-friendly area. I'm near Disney, and last year at the Food and Wine Festival they had their first-ever vegan booth. It was jam-packed with people, and I swear at least some of them had no idea the chili was vegan. I was at a media event there last week, and one person was vegetarian. At our French dinner in Epcot, I actually envied her the amazing meal they prepared.
It's going to be an interesting journey, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long time, and I see it as a way of living more genuinely. I'm sure I'll always have a bit of a craving for meat like I was raised on, but I think I can make the leap.
Technically buying range free products will increase the demand and it will eventually be cheaper.
Eating an animal is one thing, torturing it is another
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.
If someone shot me in the head I wouldnt feel pain. if they kicked me around and slashed my neck as i bleed to death. Thats different
A kosher slaughter or a bullet to the head would be much more humane than torturing it.
Animals eat other animals but they usually kill it with minor suffering. It is normal to do so
Range free kosher slaughtering.
I don't believe in the myth that farm animals are "humanely killed" but to each their own..0 -
I support animal rights. I buy range free meat, milk, and eggs if it is available for me. One of hte main reasons I love chipotleI actually went vegetarian at age 9 (Don't start with the "So unhealthy! Where were your parents? crap because they supported me and I went to a doctor regularly to make sure it was okay) And this may not work for you, but for me, just looking at videos of animals dying in a slaughter house did it for me. I started on morals ground, and that's why I'm still there, it's been 9 years and I don't crave meat at all anymore. It just becomes a part of your life. Think in moral terms, watch some PETA videos, you won't touch it.
I am fine with the health of vegetarians or pescetarians. I do not support veganism(raw vegans especially).
If people choose that lifestyle that is fine, but to claim it veganism is healthy is absurd).
While you can obtain those vitamins from supplements. You shouldnt have to resort to supplements or fortified food(which pretty much has supplements added to it) to make sure you get adequate b12 in order for your diet to be healthy. On top of that you shouldnt have to be 100% dependent upon supplements to make sure your baby isnt born with a neurological problem
My problem is if someone says it is healthier than being an omnivore.
It's interesting that you picked out vegans that supplement because I see way more posts from omis here listing the supplements they take or asking what to take because they aren't eating healthy to get these vitamins from their diet. Just as a vegan cannot claim their diet is healthy than an omnivorous one, nor can you make the case that simply being omi is healthier. Many omis will go days without eating a fruit or vegetable or live soley off fast food. Yes I actually knew someone that did live solely on fast food and it was disgusting.0 -
I support animal rights. I buy range free meat, milk, and eggs if it is available for me. One of hte main reasons I love chipotleI actually went vegetarian at age 9 (Don't start with the "So unhealthy! Where were your parents? crap because they supported me and I went to a doctor regularly to make sure it was okay) And this may not work for you, but for me, just looking at videos of animals dying in a slaughter house did it for me. I started on morals ground, and that's why I'm still there, it's been 9 years and I don't crave meat at all anymore. It just becomes a part of your life. Think in moral terms, watch some PETA videos, you won't touch it.
I am fine with the health of vegetarians or pescetarians. I do not support veganism(raw vegans especially).
If people choose that lifestyle that is fine, but to claim it veganism is healthy is absurd).
While you can obtain those vitamins from supplements. You shouldnt have to resort to supplements or fortified food(which pretty much has supplements added to it) to make sure you get adequate b12 in order for your diet to be healthy. On top of that you shouldnt have to be 100% dependent upon supplements to make sure your baby isnt born with a neurological problem
My problem is if someone says it is healthier than being an omnivore.
It's interesting that you picked out vegans that supplement because I see way more posts from omis here listing the supplements they take or asking what to take because they aren't eating healthy to get these vitamins from their diet. Just as a vegan cannot claim their diet is healthy than an omnivorous one, nor can you make the case that simply being omi is healthier. Many omis will go days without eating a fruit or vegetable or live soley off fast food. Yes I actually knew someone that did live solely on fast food and it was disgusting.
There are plenty of people who do that. They treat IIFYM as if it was a macro fixed only diet. The micronutrients obtained from fruits are far superior than that of multis.
While we all know a multi and taking fortifide foods. My point was claiming a diet is healthy when there are some essential micronutrients you must supplement.
going back to these people. I did make a call out thread in regards to their ridiculousness. I only consume chik fil a and chipotle. Chipotle for the food, their animal rights movement is a big plus.
I think its garbage how they some of them advocate caloric dense food all the time. There is alot of irony in their choice of foods. Most of them havent ever gone on a hardcore cut rather than a focused bulk. Going hypocaloric is much easier on whole foods such as potatoes, meat, and fruits(With the skin still on them)
I personally have found kiwi to be much more filling with the skin on it and one of it can keep me satisfied for a long period of time.0 -
well I could either kick them around. cut their limbs off one by one or I can snap their neck or shoot them in a head to have them to have minimal pain.
instantly killing something is different.
Honestly if you could buy range free animals I dont see why you wouldnt be in support of animal rights.I've seen the PETA videos and know what goes on in the slaughterhouses, and that's a huge factor in my decision to move toward vegetarianism. I've owned horses for decades and have been through the horse slaughter debate, and then I had to ask myself why it was so repugnant to me that people inhumanely slaughter and eat horses when I can happily eat a cow or chicken or other animal raised and killed inhumanely.
It's taken me this long because I have Eastern European heritage, which meant growing up on things like blood sausage and hackepeter, a German dish that is basically ground raw filet with a raw egg. But it's getting easier with all the meat substitutes, and even though I don't plan to go vegan, good alternatives like almond milk are allowing me to still move away from some dairy products.
I'm also lucky to live in a fairly veg-friendly area. I'm near Disney, and last year at the Food and Wine Festival they had their first-ever vegan booth. It was jam-packed with people, and I swear at least some of them had no idea the chili was vegan. I was at a media event there last week, and one person was vegetarian. At our French dinner in Epcot, I actually envied her the amazing meal they prepared.
It's going to be an interesting journey, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long time, and I see it as a way of living more genuinely. I'm sure I'll always have a bit of a craving for meat like I was raised on, but I think I can make the leap.
Technically buying range free products will increase the demand and it will eventually be cheaper.
Eating an animal is one thing, torturing it is another
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.
If someone shot me in the head I wouldnt feel pain. if they kicked me around and slashed my neck as i bleed to death. Thats different
A kosher slaughter or a bullet to the head would be much more humane than torturing it.
Animals eat other animals but they usually kill it with minor suffering. It is normal to do so
Range free kosher slaughtering.
I don't believe in the myth that farm animals are "humanely killed" but to each their own..
Too many of these slaughter houses treat them like **** and is one of the reasons I wont buy pilgrims pride0 -
I'm an animal lover. But I also love the way they taste. So I figured I needed to find a happy medium. Lucky for me I live in an area where I can raise my own animals. Now I don't eat any meat I didn't raise. That way I know what it ate, how it lived, and how it was killed. At first I couldn't stand the though of killing my cow... but then I decided I'm going to eat beef either way so why not raise a happy cow in a green pasture that I know will be killed in a quick, humane, respectful way? Same with chickens and pigs.
Are you cutting out all "meat"? Seafood included? Eggs? My brother went Veggie but still ate seafood and eggs. Said they were healthier proteins and made the transition a lot easier. If you have ethical reasons for not eating eggs (the way commercial birds are raised) find someone near you that sells eggs from their backyard chickens. Just a thought.0 -
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.
Sorry for the double post but I had to respond to this. This ^^ is why I raise and kill my own. If you put a bullet in the right spot a cow goes from chewing it's cud in the grassy pasture on a sunny day to dead in less than 1/2 a second. I've never had a cow that struggled or had to be shot a second time. Sounds bad but it's the truth. Plus it is never crammed onto a truck with 50 other scared cows and driven down the freeway to the slaughterhouse where it can smell the blood and fear of the other animals. Sorry if this is too graphic for some but it is the truth.0 -
Just wanted to add... since I see a lot of debate about the health benefits and/or deficiencies of being vegetarian/vegan being mentioned.. check out the book 'The China Study'. It's a great read regarding a comprehensive study of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease. :-)0
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Just wanted to add... since I see a lot of debate about the health benefits and/or deficiencies of being vegetarian/vegan being mentioned.. check out the book 'The China Study'. It's a great read regarding a comprehensive study of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease. :-)
That is looking at an epidemiology.
This was from lyle mcdonald.Campbell is sadly misinformed when it comes to the topic of protein, something especially regrettable for someone whose "entire professional career in biomedical research has centered on protein". Within minutes of beginning his book, even the dullest reader will quickly realize that Campbell is on a zealous mission against animal protein, which he believes to be public healthy enemy number one.
.
.
.
.
So what about the China Study itself?
Despite it's title, only a small portion of The China Study is actually devoted to discussing the giant epidemiological study of the same name; the rest of the book simply reads like an extended sales brochure for veganism.
Beginning in the early eighties, Campbell was part of a group of Chinese, British and US researchers that presided over the massive epidemiological study known as the China Project, or China Study. The New York Times dubbed it "the Grand Prix of epidemiology", and it gathered data on 367 variables across sixty-five counties and 6,500 adults. After the study data was compiled, the researchers had calculated "more than 8,000 statistically significant associations between lifestyle, diet and disease variables."
According to Campbell, the China Study data showed that: "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease.... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease."[p. 7]
In reality, the China Study showed nothing of the sort.
What Campbell won't tell you about the China Study
The China Study does not contain the actual data gathered from its namesake study. So when Campbell claims that the China Study found a consistent relationship between animal foods and various diseases, readers have no way of verifying this information for themselves.
Unless of course, they get up off their butts and go retrieve the actual China Study data for themselves. To do this, they will need to check their local libraries (university libraries are the best bet) for a book titled Diet, life-style, and mortality in China: A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties[Chen J]. Once readers have this book in their possession, they will quickly discover that there is a galaxy-sized gap between the actual findings of the China Study and the claims made by Campbell in his popular book version.
Overall mortality
Let's start with overall mortality, unarguably the most important mortality statistic of all. Animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, saturated fat, and fat calories were all negatively associated with all-cause mortality in infants, children, teenagers and adults, although none of the associations reached statistical significance (for those unfamiliar with research-speak, a negative correlation means that as intake of these foods increased, mortality risk decreased; failure to reach statistical significance means that researchers can't be sure these findings were not due to chance).
Among those aged 0-64, total protein returned a 29% negative association with overall mortality. This finding was statistically significant (p=0.05).
In all age groups, egg consumption was negatively associated with all-cause mortality, with a statistically significant 43% decrease (p=0.01) in overall mortality among those aged 0-64.
No statistically significant relationships, protective or otherwise, were found for milk intake, fiber, cereal grains, legumes, and vegetables among those aged 0-64.
The only other dietary factor that was significantly associated with overall mortality among those aged 0-64 was soy sauce (not soy products), which showed a 43% decrease in mortality risk (p=0.001)
Cancer
Neither total protein (+12%), animal protein (+3%), fish protein (+7%), plant protein (+12%), meat intake (-20%), saturated fat (+2%), fat calories (-17%), eggs (+19%), nor milk (+6%) demonstrated any statistically significant association with mortality from all cancers. Rice (-26%, p=0.05) and green vegetables (-28%, p=0.05) were statistically associated with reduced cancer mortality, as were the use of alcohol (-27%, p=0.05), home-made cigarettes (-32%, p=0.01), and total tobacco use (-25%, p=0.05).
(Readers can now see why I have such a generally low opinion of epidemiological research--if we were to treat the findings of the China Study proactively, then we would all go out and start drinking and smoking cigarettes in order to improve our odds against cancer! Despite his obvious enthrallment with the results of the China Study, Campbell for some reason doesn't recommend this...)
With regards to specific types of cancer, no statistically significant associations were observed for total protein, animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, milk intake, saturated fat, total fat, fiber, cereal grains, legumes, vegetables and mortality from colorectal or breast cancers.
Heart Disease
No statistically significant associations were observed for total protein, animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, milk intake, saturated fat, total fat, fiber, legumes, and mortality from coronary heart disease.
Rice was associated with a statistically significant decrease (-58%, p=0.001) in CHD risk, while wheat flour was associated with a statistically significant increase in CHD risk (+67%, p=0.001). A similar phenomenon was noted for stroke mortality, with a statistically significant risk decrease noted for rice (-44%, p=0.01), and a statistically significant increase in risk observed for wheat flour (+55%, p=0.001) (again, despite his apparent rapture with the China Study results, nowhere does Campbell recommend the avoidance of wheat or wheat flour; in fact, he encourages the consumption of whole grain cereals).
So there you have it...the "Grand Prix" study that supposedly showed "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease.... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease", actually showed that animal-based foods imparted no increased risk of all-cause mortality, cancer deaths, or cardiovascular mortality.
Conclusion
Campbell's lopsided presentation of the facts is most regrettable. If you visit the The China Study page at Amazon.com you will see that the book is selling well and has received glowing reviews from unwitting readers who clearly have not taken the time to validate Campbell's claims for themselves. Like so many people in today's society, these folks are too lazy to think and research for themselves, and are therefore ready prey for misguided "gurus" peddling scientifically unsound nonsense
Those statistics are what was found by the study. Disease prevention has nothing to do with true veganism.
You cannot read a book and talk about the study and how it was so wonderful if you dont look at the statistics it was based off of.
Most of the studies have dumb conclusions or some moron making it.
for example. Red meat can cause GI cancer. Well red meat is broken into many forms such as hot dogs, low quality meat, mcdonalds, the actual steak.
therefore red meat causes cancer.
but wait...
Considering most of red meat people consume contain nitrates it actual cuts of beef should not be associated with the other forms.
At the same time since meat has creatine and b12 those both have been shown to have neurological protective benefits as you age. B12 can be obtained easily via meat and does have the optimal type of amino acids for skeletal muscle repair.
So no. It is a study with a book that has no true basis on the results he found but rather his opinion.
There was no peer review for this book because it is garbage0 -
Just wanted to add... since I see a lot of debate about the health benefits and/or deficiencies of being vegetarian/vegan being mentioned.. check out the book 'The China Study'. It's a great read regarding a comprehensive study of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease. :-)
That is looking at an epidemiology.
This was from lyle mcdonald.Campbell is sadly misinformed when it comes to the topic of protein, something especially regrettable for someone whose "entire professional career in biomedical research has centered on protein". Within minutes of beginning his book, even the dullest reader will quickly realize that Campbell is on a zealous mission against animal protein, which he believes to be public healthy enemy number one.
.
.
.
.
So what about the China Study itself?
Despite it's title, only a small portion of The China Study is actually devoted to discussing the giant epidemiological study of the same name; the rest of the book simply reads like an extended sales brochure for veganism.
Beginning in the early eighties, Campbell was part of a group of Chinese, British and US researchers that presided over the massive epidemiological study known as the China Project, or China Study. The New York Times dubbed it "the Grand Prix of epidemiology", and it gathered data on 367 variables across sixty-five counties and 6,500 adults. After the study data was compiled, the researchers had calculated "more than 8,000 statistically significant associations between lifestyle, diet and disease variables."
According to Campbell, the China Study data showed that: "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease.... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease."[p. 7]
In reality, the China Study showed nothing of the sort.
What Campbell won't tell you about the China Study
The China Study does not contain the actual data gathered from its namesake study. So when Campbell claims that the China Study found a consistent relationship between animal foods and various diseases, readers have no way of verifying this information for themselves.
Unless of course, they get up off their butts and go retrieve the actual China Study data for themselves. To do this, they will need to check their local libraries (university libraries are the best bet) for a book titled Diet, life-style, and mortality in China: A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties[Chen J]. Once readers have this book in their possession, they will quickly discover that there is a galaxy-sized gap between the actual findings of the China Study and the claims made by Campbell in his popular book version.
Overall mortality
Let's start with overall mortality, unarguably the most important mortality statistic of all. Animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, saturated fat, and fat calories were all negatively associated with all-cause mortality in infants, children, teenagers and adults, although none of the associations reached statistical significance (for those unfamiliar with research-speak, a negative correlation means that as intake of these foods increased, mortality risk decreased; failure to reach statistical significance means that researchers can't be sure these findings were not due to chance).
Among those aged 0-64, total protein returned a 29% negative association with overall mortality. This finding was statistically significant (p=0.05).
In all age groups, egg consumption was negatively associated with all-cause mortality, with a statistically significant 43% decrease (p=0.01) in overall mortality among those aged 0-64.
No statistically significant relationships, protective or otherwise, were found for milk intake, fiber, cereal grains, legumes, and vegetables among those aged 0-64.
The only other dietary factor that was significantly associated with overall mortality among those aged 0-64 was soy sauce (not soy products), which showed a 43% decrease in mortality risk (p=0.001)
Cancer
Neither total protein (+12%), animal protein (+3%), fish protein (+7%), plant protein (+12%), meat intake (-20%), saturated fat (+2%), fat calories (-17%), eggs (+19%), nor milk (+6%) demonstrated any statistically significant association with mortality from all cancers. Rice (-26%, p=0.05) and green vegetables (-28%, p=0.05) were statistically associated with reduced cancer mortality, as were the use of alcohol (-27%, p=0.05), home-made cigarettes (-32%, p=0.01), and total tobacco use (-25%, p=0.05).
(Readers can now see why I have such a generally low opinion of epidemiological research--if we were to treat the findings of the China Study proactively, then we would all go out and start drinking and smoking cigarettes in order to improve our odds against cancer! Despite his obvious enthrallment with the results of the China Study, Campbell for some reason doesn't recommend this...)
With regards to specific types of cancer, no statistically significant associations were observed for total protein, animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, milk intake, saturated fat, total fat, fiber, cereal grains, legumes, vegetables and mortality from colorectal or breast cancers.
Heart Disease
No statistically significant associations were observed for total protein, animal protein, fish protein, meat intake, milk intake, saturated fat, total fat, fiber, legumes, and mortality from coronary heart disease.
Rice was associated with a statistically significant decrease (-58%, p=0.001) in CHD risk, while wheat flour was associated with a statistically significant increase in CHD risk (+67%, p=0.001). A similar phenomenon was noted for stroke mortality, with a statistically significant risk decrease noted for rice (-44%, p=0.01), and a statistically significant increase in risk observed for wheat flour (+55%, p=0.001) (again, despite his apparent rapture with the China Study results, nowhere does Campbell recommend the avoidance of wheat or wheat flour; in fact, he encourages the consumption of whole grain cereals).
So there you have it...the "Grand Prix" study that supposedly showed "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease.... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease", actually showed that animal-based foods imparted no increased risk of all-cause mortality, cancer deaths, or cardiovascular mortality.
Conclusion
Campbell's lopsided presentation of the facts is most regrettable. If you visit the The China Study page at Amazon.com you will see that the book is selling well and has received glowing reviews from unwitting readers who clearly have not taken the time to validate Campbell's claims for themselves. Like so many people in today's society, these folks are too lazy to think and research for themselves, and are therefore ready prey for misguided "gurus" peddling scientifically unsound nonsense
Those statistics are what was found by the study. Disease prevention has nothing to do with true veganism.
You cannot read a book and talk about the study and how it was so wonderful if you dont look at the statistics it was based off of.
Most of the studies have dumb conclusions or some moron making it.
for example. Red meat can cause GI cancer. Well red meat is broken into many forms such as hot dogs, low quality meat, mcdonalds, the actual steak.
therefore red meat causes cancer.
but wait...
Considering most of red meat people consume contain nitrates it actual cuts of beef should not be associated with the other forms.
At the same time since meat has creatine and b12 those both have been shown to have neurological protective benefits as you age. B12 can be obtained easily via meat and does have the optimal type of amino acids for skeletal muscle repair.
So no. It is a study with a book that has no true basis on the results he found but rather his opinion.
There was no peer review for this book because it is garbage
It's kind of sad that 'lyle mcdonald' takes the stance that people who read these types of books are doing so because "these folks are too lazy to think and research for themselves, and are therefore ready prey for misguided gurus peddling scientifically unsound nonsense"
I read the book out of curiosity and belief that the majority of findings were factual- not because I'm too lazy to think and research.. Considering reading a book in itself can be considered researching... Sounds like 'lyle' is more into name calling and belittling than anything else, near the end of his post.
Anyways, I'm interested in what you've brought to light.. and with some quick googling, found this page which covers a pretty interesting critique & analysis of The China Study [ http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ ] ..for anyone else interested.
I'm vegetarian, and due to seemingly worsening allergies to milk and egg products, becoming vegan. I do this because of both the health benefits I find through cutting out animal products, and for the personal belief that raising animals purely for food is both unnecessary and cruel. I've lived my whole life without the consumption of meat and don't plan on changing that, regardless of whether it's better or not for disease prevention.
To be clear, this is a choice I make for myself- not anyone else. To each their own.0 -
A book called The Lean by Kathy Freston is quite helpful and includes a 30-day plan with recipes to help you "lean' into vegetarianism. I started with the Indian food too because I wasn't a big vegetable fan at the time. I have been completely vegan for 3 years now, finally giving up seafood and cheese.0
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well I could either kick them around. cut their limbs off one by one or I can snap their neck or shoot them in a head to have them to have minimal pain.
instantly killing something is different.
Honestly if you could buy range free animals I dont see why you wouldnt be in support of animal rights.I've seen the PETA videos and know what goes on in the slaughterhouses, and that's a huge factor in my decision to move toward vegetarianism. I've owned horses for decades and have been through the horse slaughter debate, and then I had to ask myself why it was so repugnant to me that people inhumanely slaughter and eat horses when I can happily eat a cow or chicken or other animal raised and killed inhumanely.
It's taken me this long because I have Eastern European heritage, which meant growing up on things like blood sausage and hackepeter, a German dish that is basically ground raw filet with a raw egg. But it's getting easier with all the meat substitutes, and even though I don't plan to go vegan, good alternatives like almond milk are allowing me to still move away from some dairy products.
I'm also lucky to live in a fairly veg-friendly area. I'm near Disney, and last year at the Food and Wine Festival they had their first-ever vegan booth. It was jam-packed with people, and I swear at least some of them had no idea the chili was vegan. I was at a media event there last week, and one person was vegetarian. At our French dinner in Epcot, I actually envied her the amazing meal they prepared.
It's going to be an interesting journey, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long time, and I see it as a way of living more genuinely. I'm sure I'll always have a bit of a craving for meat like I was raised on, but I think I can make the leap.
Technically buying range free products will increase the demand and it will eventually be cheaper.
Eating an animal is one thing, torturing it is another
Dosen't an animal suffer when you kill it though? I mean free range, family farm or not I don't imagine animals enjoy dying.
If someone shot me in the head I wouldnt feel pain. if they kicked me around and slashed my neck as i bleed to death. Thats different
A kosher slaughter or a bullet to the head would be much more humane than torturing it.
Animals eat other animals but they usually kill it with minor suffering. It is normal to do so
Range free kosher slaughtering.
I don't believe in the myth that farm animals are "humanely killed" but to each their own..
Too many of these slaughter houses treat them like **** and is one of the reasons I wont buy pilgrims pride
Like I said, to each their own. I personally don't believe in killing animals to be eaten, I am not trying to convince anyone else otherwise and how an animal is killed doesn't make me think it's okay to do it. You may find people that are vegetarian just becaue they do not agree with slaughter houses and farm raising and animals pumped full of illness and other crap, but I simply don't believe in killing them for food animal if I can be healthy without having to eat them. And I will continue to believe that until I get sick and doctor tells me I missing a magical meat only vitamin.0 -
I am a recent mostly raw vegan (I still eat cooked eggs), but I made this change for health reasons. I have an extreme wheat and dairy allergy so going vegan/raw was more a matter of survival then moral choice. I had been wanting to loose weight which is why I cut out meat in the beginning but I feel so amazing that I don't think I could ever go back to the diet I had before. I have thought about adding fish to my diet but I have a bad childhood experience which involved my brother-in-law and a frying pan (a very dark memory for me!) I truly feel that most people don't understand the damage they are doing to their bodies when they eat processed garbage. Our bodies weren't designed to handle those kinds of chemical, I mean really! I refuse to eat anything unless I can pronounce it's name!0
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Did you know that 90% of all nitrates turn cancerous on the cellular level? Just something to think about.0
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Ah, yes, I love Imdian phone. There's an excellent family run restaurant near me with the best vegetarian cuisine. My favorite Mexican restaurant has many veggie dishes too. Just had the most delicious veg fajitas last night.A book called The Lean by Kathy Freston is quite helpful and includes a 30-day plan with recipes to help you "lean' into vegetarianism. I started with the Indian food too because I wasn't a big vegetable fan at the time. I have been completely vegan for 3 years now, finally giving up seafood and cheese.
This has turned into a very interesting discussion. My reasons are primarily based on animal cruelty, but I hope for health benefits, too. I don't expect anything earth shattering, but hopefully improvements from reducing fat, since heart disease is chronic in my family.0 -
I went vegetarian back in November... it was a hard transition. Things were pretty successful and then I started my weightloss journey on January 1st and lost about 40lbs when I decided to go back to eating meat, and I stick pretty much to chicken. I found I was eating a lot of carbs at night with brown rice, whole wheat pasta, couscous, quinoa, beans... so I opted for meat again. It took me a lot of research though to figure out how to eat healthy and still be vegetarian b/c a lot of people switch to potatoes and other unhealthy things when they first start. My tip is to really look into those vegetarian delights and learn how to prepare them b/c they can be REALLY delicious 0
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