Obesity and poverty...
Replies
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While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
That takes organization and planning. There also are few, if any, farmers' markets in economically depressed area.
I'm not saying that poor people have no responsibility for their kids' weight problems, but it's a whole lot easier if you have money and are depressed or distracted by the mere struggle to survive.0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
I don't know- I guess I see this as a bit of a stretch. Most places have renters assistance and/or less expensive apartments. There is also child daycare assistance available, and wic available (which is in addition to the income assistance (welfare). Also I am pretty sure food stamps is not the same program as welfare, so there is additional food to be accessed there. When I was on WIC as a new /young mother, they had vouchers for the farmers market. This is also assuming she is not working and getting an additional income and child support.
I remember when I was "low income". There are LOTS of programs available.0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Not getting into the debate but you have to HAVE the extra money to buy in bulk, so for the very poor it isn't an option.0 -
Agreed. I was in a supermarket on my lunch break a few months ago. This store has an amazing food bar. Of course you pay by weight and it can get quite expensive. A couple in front of me paid 40.00 for their food with an EBT card.. I had nothing else to say. My mother could have gotten groceries for the week with that. But unfortunately we didn't qualify for Food stamps when I was a kid since she wouldn't quit her retail job to qualify.I know plenty of people who get food stamps and they have a hell of a lot more options that I do as I actually have to pay for my food. If they chose to they could buy fruits, vegetables, lean meats, etc but usually choose not to. Besides getting food stamps if they have kids under 5 they get WIC (fruit, veg, beans, juice, milk FREE) in addition to their stamps their kids get free lunch at school. Please don't try and blame this on anything other than personal responsibility. People get every opportunity to make good decisions
My government professor told us a story once about when he was in the grocery store and this lady was complaining about not having enough food stamps to feed her and her kids for the month... what did she have in her basket? Steaks, produce that wasn't on sale, and other high ticket items... he took her back and taught her how to shop to make it last longer and to have more meals with it.0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Not getting into the debate but you have to HAVE the extra money to buy in bulk, so for the very poor it isn't an option.
I don't buy in bulk and I still spend about $100-$125 a week, I cook as if I'm cooking for 4, I have a toddler in diapers and three pets. I buy milk without the hormones and antibiotics (which costs about a dollar more) and I buy fresh and frozen produce when they are on sale... You can make the produce last an upwards of two weeks buy washing them in a vinegar and water bath. It's how I make two pounds of strawberries (that I buy for $5 or less) last for over two weeks.0 -
This makes sense for the US and Canada and other countries, but....
I live part of the year in the Dominican Republic. I rarely see over weight, fat, obese people there. The usual monthly income is around 200-300 dollars or less! But people aren't starving, they are a healthy weight.
Not to mention that Dominican people spend a huge part of their monthly income on things like their hair, cell phones and other things.
How do they do it?
Well...rice and beans is cheap and healthy. Veggies actually only cost a little bit less or the same as here in Canada in the summer time, but they eat them regularly. A chicken there is about three dollars. But when you look at the cost of living, that is still more than the 6 dollars I spend on a chicken here ( all things adjusted)
They very rarely crap or processed food. Those things are imported and very expensive.
Not to mention that most of my Dominican friends are a lot less active than we are....they all hate to walk anywhere and I have never seen one exercise on purpose.
The point is...you can be poor and eat properly, it is cheaper to eat properly if you eat the basics and stay away from processed food.
I have learned a lot from the Dominican people on how to live healthy, that is for sure.
You can be poor and not be fat. A bag of rice is a few dollars, a bag of beans is a few dollars...a chicken is a few dollars, basics that you actually cook into meals that are healthy, can be pretty cheap.
^^ This. It is poverty + our culture. Think of all the pictures of outdoor markets in other countries where you can buy free-range chicken, eggs, locally grown fruits and veggies. I am working in downtown Philly -plenty of poor and homeless in the underground subway area - and there are six Dunkin' Donuts in a .25 mile radius + numerous fast food establishments but you would be hard-pressed to find a crown of broccoli.0 -
Hi MFP's,
I am a candidate for a Master of Public Health with a specialty in epidemiology (epidemics,pandemics, chronic and infectious disease) and I have a background coordinating an NGO that dealt exclusively with food insecurity and improving the health and social outcomes of food insecure individuals. Poverty plays a significant role in both childhood and adult obesity.
This issues of food insecurity, food deserts (areas where fresh healthful food is inaccessible or otherwise unavailable) and obesity are intertwined in such a way that individuals without access may have to depend on boxed meals, fast food or other non-perishable options to ensure they are able to sufficiently feed themselves and their families until they can next access food. This is especially true for those who live in food deserts (which are typically populated by the poorest factions of the population). To make matters worse those who depend on food banks will often receive food that is filled with sodium, fat and preservatives and is often very calorie dense. Many food banks do not deal with fresh produce or perishable items and only collect or buy and distribute non-perishable goods. Often food banks could not maintain a stock of perishable foods even if they could collect those items because of the need for refrigeration of some products and because of the perishable nature of fruits and vegetables they may not be able to buy them in bulk or from farmers where they would more reasonably priced. On a regular basis food banks have to delegate funds, would they rather purchase X amount of canned soup or pasta and sauce or some significantly lesser amount of fresh vegetables, being able to feed more people will more likely win out over fresh more varied foods
Another underlying issue is that high fat high sugar foods, along with being inexpensive are also highly palatable and well advertised. As a result children will be more likely to want and ask for items like chips(crisps), boxed macaroni and cheese, Oreo's and other cookies, and sugary cereals like Fruit Loops, Cap't Crunch etc. that are loaded with refined sugar, refined flours, fat and overall are not very nutritious but are addictive. Parents and caregivers play a large role in childhood obesity because they provide and prepare food for young children and as a result they can choose whether or not to buy these items. However, parents may also feel that in giving their children these high fat, high sugar items that they are asking for they are making up for other areas where they may feel their children are being deprived (i.e. not being able to play in organized sports because of cost, not being able to spend much time with their children because of their busy work schedules, not being able to afford new toys, clothes etc.) This is not to say that that type of behavior is correct or that this is the case for all overweight children or parents living in poverty.
Put simply, we live in an environment where cheaper, easier more palatable food is less expensive than healthier alternatives, not to completely shift blame but we need to consider the roles played by the food industry and governments in the cost of food especially fresh food and the provision of (IMO) inadequate social assistance for those living in poverty. This is not to say that I necessarily think we should pour more tax dollars into welfare systems but perhaps subsidize the cost of fresh or fresh frozen healthful foods to make them more appealing and making regularly eating fresh unprocessed food financially feasible for the population as a whole. Though food deserts would need to be examined in order to improve livelihoods in those areas but overall if this were the case, perhaps we would not be facing such a widespread overweight and obesity epidemic in the west (the global north).
Many people living in poverty, even overweight and obese individuals are malnourished. I like to assume that all parents inevitably want the best for their children but simply may not be able to provide the foods that they need to have a healthy varied diet. So we can all assign "blame" as we see fit but as we look at the more holistic picture we may recognize that it is not as cut and dry as we may have thought. I really appreciate whoever posted this topic, its great that we have started the conversation about overweight and obesity and its contributing factors. Many of you have made really great and nuanced points that will contribute to a better understanding of the issue for all of us who read the forums. Keep up the great work MFP's!
Brit
Thank you for this. My close friend (who holds a degree in Sociology and recently finished her doctorate in Food Systems and Eating) and I have had this same conversation many times.0 -
If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.
Well, I'll be dipped!
This little girl, A Yankee BTW, knows what the answer is,.....in a word.***** laziness!***** And she didn't even have to live in the South or read the New York Times or have some Elitest expert tell her the answer.
I'm not sure if you are attempting sarcasm or not, but allow me to respond. I lived with my mother in Texas when I was a child and she was *lazy* when it came to feeding her children. Half the time it was left up to us to combine whatever junk was in the cabinets to make food. I remember eating Trix cereal three meals a day for a few days straight because all I knew how to do was pour the milk. The few times I remember eating with my mother was when we were at the Mexican restaurant where she was a waitress. Making better choices and having work ethic have nothing to do with being from the north or the south or what your income is. It's about doing the best you can period. The money I make puts me just above the poverty line, so I don't qualify for any assistance. The food I buy is mostly healthy with the occasional pop-tart thrown in for mornings when I really don't feel like cooking. I enjoy cooking for my family because I know what I am putting in it and because it saves us money. You're right, I don't have to read the New York Times or listen to some elitist to do simple math. It's one of the joys of having some education and common sense.0 -
I addressed the title of the thread. And the reality is that one can still eat poorly and not get overweight or obese since it's calorie expenditure that makes the difference.If poverty was the cause of obesity, then 3rd would countries should be having the same issues.
While some of the stats are legit, you would think that making less and having less meant one would eat less. Unfortunately that's usually not the case. And lots of people would rather have "fun" stuff like computers and phones to spend their money on rather than actual whole food.
Before the cell phone boom (I'm not against them), how did families keep in touch or safe if they were away from each other? What's my point? Lots of families have phones and pay well over $150 a month for them rather than actual food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No, sorry, but in third world countries there is an overall lack of food. No one is saying the people in poverty starve. They don't. They eat poorly. I have a very tight budget as a single mother. I have had to coupon clip and scrimp to feed my family. I can tell you without a doubt there have been times when I have bought things that I would not normally eat just to make sure my children have full bellies. As an example I had coupons for frozen family dinners and it made them free. I was broke so I bought it, or rather got if for free. I have learned how to shop with sales and use coupons to cook healthy meals however, it is not always that simple. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. In the last 5years food cost has increased while incomes have not, people sometimes just don't have enough.
Our fattest states just happen to be ones where the incomes are lower so the correlation of obese overweight people and coincide.
There always will be poverty somewhere. It's been this way since the beginning of man. How it's handled will dictate the outcome of whom is experiencing it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?0 -
Agreed. I was in a supermarket on my lunch break a few months ago. This store has an amazing food bar. Of course you pay by weight and it can get quite expensive. A couple in front of me paid 40.00 for their food with an EBT card.. I had nothing else to say. My mother could have gotten groceries for the week with that. But unfortunately we didn't qualify for Food stamps when I was a kid since she wouldn't quit her retail job to qualify.I know plenty of people who get food stamps and they have a hell of a lot more options that I do as I actually have to pay for my food. If they chose to they could buy fruits, vegetables, lean meats, etc but usually choose not to. Besides getting food stamps if they have kids under 5 they get WIC (fruit, veg, beans, juice, milk FREE) in addition to their stamps their kids get free lunch at school. Please don't try and blame this on anything other than personal responsibility. People get every opportunity to make good decisions
My government professor told us a story once about when he was in the grocery store and this lady was complaining about not having enough food stamps to feed her and her kids for the month... what did she have in her basket? Steaks, produce that wasn't on sale, and other high ticket items... he took her back and taught her how to shop to make it last longer and to have more meals with it.
That was noble of him. Maybe I'm naïve, but why would one need to be taught how to shop? I'm not being funny. But you have 4 kids, your budget is say 100.00. why would a person buy the most expensive meat? Doesn't the human need to survive kick in? I know for me. If I have a certain amount to spend on food I make it last. I buy off brand when I need to and named brand when I can. Its all a matter of finding the best bargain. I bet when these same folks who say they don't know how to shop, hit the mall, they know how to find a bargain. I'm sure they are shopping on the clearance rack..0 -
I am in the UK and i agree to an extent that its cheaper to buy frozen food the it is to buy fresh fruit and veg for several reasons. 1. vast amount more shelf life on frozen processed crap, 2.No need to shop around if you cannot afford a car(iceland deliver free if u spend over £25) and several other reasons.
I think (HOPE) every one of us that are here understand that physical activity level go's hand in hand with being healthy and weight managment. I started running a while back and i took my 2 sons out with me. I remember what i was like when i was their age and i would be out and about sun up to sun down playing tag, roller skating, cycling, walking and much more. I was on week 1 of couch to 5 k i had to run for 1 min and walk for 30 seconds.. or other way around maybe... But anyway my 2 boys (age 7 and 9) could not keep up with me running. I was GOB SMACKED. Here is a fat unfit mammy being able to outrun her 2 sons. What the heck is that about? I went into school and asked what the heck do they do in PE and how on earth are they so unfit. The teachers response... Well the weather has been terrible so the kids have been indoors more often then not and because the classes are 30 pupils each there is not space for them to run around. Also in my local area there are only 3 green areas left within a mile or so of my home as the rest that i had access to growing up have been built on.
I think also safety is an issue that effects physical activity. When i was young and living in the same area i do now i felt safe to be out all day every day running around. I used to go to my local park without adult supervision when i was my eldest child's age. I however don't let my children out of my front street. I would not dare let them go to the park i used to go to alone.
Also my 9 yr old is getting SEX EDUCATION shoved down his neck when i hand on heart believe these kids should be being educated on how to cook instead. Maybe the kids can learn something good and share it with family to improve the whole family's life style.
Finally i think for a lot of people to an extent its depression. My friend is in a real financial pickle. single mum of 2 similar age to my boys. She cannot afford to take them out to eat or do day trips, cannot drive so needs public transport to get anywhere(also expensive when you have nothing). Instead they have nights in with a film and a pizza or chinese that she buys and cooks and this is seen as a treat.
I don't know what the answer to this problem is... I really really don't. All i know is its getting worse. Things that may help is putting a higher level of tax on fatty processed foods in order to supplement and bring down prices of fresh produce. Community run fitness sessions that cost nothing but that can educate people and give them support to get fitter.
In the UK farmers markets are slowly but surley becoming a thing of the past, so many farmers have been run out of business because of the large supermarket chains forcing them to sell for zero or sometimes minus figure profit margins.
I just see people blaming the problems on 1 thing when its actually many different factors. If you cant afford to eat clean and healthy veggies ALL the time due to finances, then try to balance it out by exercise.0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?
It's amazing that everyone thinks its just so easy.
Maybe she is disabled.
Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care.
Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.
Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom.
Maybe her husband left her.
Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him.
Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?
What the hell difference does it make?0 -
i am sorry to say and I will probably get bashed for what I am about to say.. but as a mother NOTHING would come in the way of feeding my kids. What responsible mother would allow her kids to eat 1 free provided meal? I would wear rags from the thrift shop and sell my body if that is the only way i could feed my kids. I would go without a phone or tv to feed my kids. There is Nothing more important than providing for your children.Obesity is a matter of too many calories and not enough exercise. Poverty is not going to cause that. Yes, there is a correlation between poverty and obesity in some countries, but that doesn't equal causation.
I'd put my money on a lack of self control (which all children naturally have), combined with parents who either don't care, or who lack the ability to say "no" to their children, along with the parents modeling poor eating behavior.
I'm sorry, but do you know how elitist this sounds? I do a lot of advocacy work with the poor in my community particularly around food security for families. We live in a middle class neighbourhood on the edge of an impoverished area and I was shocked to find out that most of the kids my son goes to school work don't get any meals other than the ones provided by the breakfast program. It's not a lack of care from their parents, it's a complete and total lack of resources. A lot of people are also too ashamed to ask for help because they face discrimination and shaming, as so eloquently modeled in your post above.
If It means i need to go to the library and read a book on how to cook bulk dried beans than that is what it means.
Not knowing how to cook is not an excuse not to feed your kids
Not having access to healthy food is not an excuse not to plant some seeds in an old bucket on your porch
Not having time is no reason, you can get a used crock pot at the thrift shop and prepare meals in 3 minutes in the morning
There is always a way, and there is usually a program.
I probably sound like an elitist to you too, but I was on govt assistance when I was a young mother and I know first hand that when there is a will, there is a way. There is no excuse to neglect your children ever.0 -
I grew up in a very good neighborhood with parents who are well off. I was a fat kid that grew into a fat adult. Why? Because while my mother cooked real food most evenings, it was the quality of food she was serving - too much fat, too many servings, etc. So not only were those choices bad, my dad also didn't care about giving me McDonald's 3 or 4 or 5 times a week, but then he'd turn around and tell me I was fat.
It wasn't until I hit my mid 20's and started living on my own that I discovered how badly my family eats.
I made less than $17K last year. I am the HEALTHIEST and fittest I have ever been and I spend less on food than I ever have. It's all about choices YOU want to make.
You're talking about a salad at McDonald's for $6 and saying eating healthy is too expensive. For $6, I can make 3 salads at home.0 -
I think in general you are correct but there are ways to get more healthy food for your dollar which many who have already replied have outlined. Another thing is the farm bill which keeps prices for meat and dairy crazy low compared to fruits and veggies. I totally agree that we need to get our priorities strait as a nation and quite frankly as a world.0
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I agree it is education over income. I was raised in a very poor household. My father made great money but it went to supply his drug habit and my mother either couldn't or wouldn't get out of bed from depression. We ate mainly sandwiches on white bread. I had my twins at 20 and while I refused to bring them up the way I was brought up I didn't have a clue how to cook. I fed them a lot of processed boxed food or take out. My kids are 15 now and all three of us are over weight. I have taught myself how to cook and I am trying to cook healthier. Educating yourself online is difficult as there is so much conflicting information.
If you were raised in a healthy active household you are not going to understand how hard it is to go from an unhealthy lethargic household to something healthier. I am not saying it is impossible just not as easy as some might think.
I have never been poor enough to get food stamps but I would think health classes would be mandatory not optional and soda, chips candy etc. would not be aloud. It should be monitored like WIC where you can only buy certain items.0 -
i am sorry to say and I will probably get bashed for what I am about to say.. but as a mother NOTHING would come in the way of feeding my kids. What responsible mother would allow her kids to eat 1 free provided meal? I would wear rags from the thrift shop and sell my body if that is the only way i could feed my kids. I would go without a phone or tv to feed my kids. There is Nothing more important than providing for your children.Obesity is a matter of too many calories and not enough exercise. Poverty is not going to cause that. Yes, there is a correlation between poverty and obesity in some countries, but that doesn't equal causation.
I'd put my money on a lack of self control (which all children naturally have), combined with parents who either don't care, or who lack the ability to say "no" to their children, along with the parents modeling poor eating behavior.
I'm sorry, but do you know how elitist this sounds? I do a lot of advocacy work with the poor in my community particularly around food security for families. We live in a middle class neighbourhood on the edge of an impoverished area and I was shocked to find out that most of the kids my son goes to school work don't get any meals other than the ones provided by the breakfast program. It's not a lack of care from their parents, it's a complete and total lack of resources. A lot of people are also too ashamed to ask for help because they face discrimination and shaming, as so eloquently modeled in your post above.
If It means i need to go to the library and read a book on how to cook bulk dried beans than that is what it means.
Not knowing how to cook is not an excuse not to feed your kids
Not having access to healthy food is not an excuse not to plant some seeds in an old bucket on your porch
Not having time is no reason, you can get a used crock pot at the thrift shop and prepare meals in 3 minutes in the morning
There is always a way, and there is usually a program.
I probably sound like an elitist to you too, but I was on govt assistance when I was a young mother and I know first hand that when there is a will, there is a way. There is no excuse to neglect your children ever.
This brought tears to my eyes. Yes I agree. Nothing should stop a mother from feeding her child. When my dad left us I was 6. My mother worked in retail. He paid child support but in the early 70's it wasn't much. My mom needed to supplement her retail job with food stamps. All she wanted was help. She was denied. They told her to quit her job. She did not want to be completely dependent on the gov't so she refused. I heard her crying about how she didn't know how she was gonna make it. Finally in desperation she went to the local grocery store and got food on credit. It was the most humbling/humiliating thing she ever had to do. (she told me this years later). . But she had no other choice. For years I would take money down to that man, not knowing what I was paying for. It took her years to pay it all off. So please don't say mothers have no choice. I would sell my body to feed my kids. My mother went through hell to survive because that is what mothers do!!!!0 -
Just remembered how manufacturers fought like crazy the soda tax proposal in NYC and extra large soda drink ban (a very limited one).
They run ads to the tune of millions of dollars. They understand their customer base is poor. People with lowest income are the ones buy most of the soda here. Spending their limited dollars on a completely unnecessary, nutritionally devoid and potentially harmful product as if it was a staple of their diet. Soda is not popular at all in rich neighborhoods.0 -
This is a great point, children and parents are grossly under-educated about food systems and how to prepare food. Many individuals are also grossly under educated about how to buy and prepare healthy food on budget. Many of us are discussing how we could easily and inexpensively buy canned lentils,chickpeas and bags of rice etc. but a few posts hit it right on the nose and said essentially you can buy whatever healthy food you want, but if you don't know how to prepare it in a palatable way that will be eaten by your family members you might as well be throwing money away. This is a great point and a great place to start if we are trying to create programming that will help alleviate some financial and nutritional pressure from those in poverty.
Sometimes it is not purely laziness as suggested by some, but just a lack of knowledge. Not to say that no one living in poverty is lazy, but for some it is more complex than that. Also, when you are significantly overweight and getting around is a struggle I can understand wanting to remain sedentary, its not correct but it is a factor and we need to acknowledge that.
Also, with regard to those talking about "calories in vs. calories out" yes, you are correct at a very basic level this is completely true. However, that statement fails to acknowledge a slew of underlying issues. How are people who are under-educated about what they are eating supposed to know and understand how many calories they are supposed to be eating or how many calories they are eating on a daily basis? What about people who live in obesogenic environments, (this has been aptly discussed in a prior post) environments where it is not safe to go outside and walk or run or play. Those environments that have no access to parks or that parents and children are afraid to go outside for fear of gang or other violence. What about those individuals? Think about the implications of what you are saying.
I am not suggesting that it is safer to remain obese than it is to play outside, but in those environments I would suggest that according to the law of averages the more people put themselves at risk the more likely they are to become injured as a result of their environments.
This is not a simple issue and there is not one simple answer and those who are trying to suggest that it is are under-informed and under-educated in the whole of the issue. Not to discount personal experience but because you have had a personal experience with poverty or obesity that does not mean that your experience is the norm.
Respectfully,
Brit0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Are there a lot of bulk grocers, farmers markets and amish shops in inner cities or in impoverished rural areas in the Deep South or Appalachia?0 -
I feed a family of four .... on $90 a week sometimes lessssss....
and we are overall healthy eaters living about a 70/30 lifestyle (70% healthy). No one in my family is obese...or even over weight to be honest. I was over weight because i chose to be back then. I've never been rich, i'm not living in poverty but i am middle class working hard to pay for my family but we choose to shop cheaper and do our shopping around to find the right prices.
it's about knowing the tricks of the trade and working to find foods that are cheaper in other places. I think its all about doing your home work before you take the test - meaning - its all about shopping around for cheaper places before buying.0 -
OK, so here goes with my soap box. Here in Oklahoma if you don't have enough money you get food stamps AND your kids get free and reduced lunches AND you have access to food pantries. BUT NO ONE MAKES THE PARENTS GET UP AND GET THINGS DONE. One family that I know reported that the father moved out (he did threaten to do so but never actually did) and so Mom and three kids got $600 a month in food stamps. Excuse me but I have never spent that kind of money on food (maybe the fact that it's my own money that had to be earned played into it) and my husband and I raised five kids. Three boys working hard through their teenage years and eating like teenage boys. Beans, potatoes and oatmeal are pretty cheap compared to pop and chips. Yeah, pop is cheaper than milk--but water is WAY cheaper (at least as it comes out of the tap). We had all the milk, meat, eggs and fresh produce that we needed. But we didn't buy cookies (we made them) or chips (we just didn't eat them) or pop (only for special occasions). The mother of some children that we fostered for over a year also afforded many niceties that we never considered--like little individual serving packages of ice cream. Her children ate mostly candy and drank mostly juice (from WIC--extra food stamps for children). She NEVER prepared a meal--only prepackaged foods were on the menu at her house--even though she had NO JOB AT ALL. When we got them they were overweight and malnourished. One moved from the 34th percentile for height to the 90th in 6 months at our house. I'm sorry, the problem isn't poverty--they are linked because the same things that cause obesity in children cause poverty. Giving them more money and more food (and more education even) won't help until they decide they want to change. It doesn't take a government program--unless that program might require an effort to be put forth by it's recipients--it will take change in the communities and a willingness to work with these people in meaningful ways. Can you pick up one of these children and take them to church? to Boy Scouts? to 4H? can you be a Big Brother/Big Sister? do yard work with them or help out on a community project? just be a friend (and mentor)? They came from homes where hard work didn't happen and they don't have a way to learn how to make things work unless someone reaches out. It's risky, but worthwhile. If a person waits to have children until after finishing high school and getting married they have a 98% LOWER RISK of EVER living in poverty. And I think it will also have a very direct effect on the lives of those children also.0
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I forgot to say also the comparison in fruit and veg and mcdonalds is not accurate. My post was regarding in store shopping. you can get a frozen pizza or processed chicken nuggets and a bag of chips to feed 3 for £2. The healthy flip side chicken breast x 3, fresh carrots, sweet potato and broccoli would cost around £5-£6. whole grain pasta costs more then double the price of white pasta.
Also fast food meal out. The price of mcdonalds in comparison to say a sushi bar? We all know which is cheaper. Not to mention you will pass any amounts of mcdonalds billboards on your way to wherever.0 -
I work with a very poor community and the problem I see is that at the first of the month they have so much money in food stamps. Now to feed a family of 4 they have to budget that money to last the month, so say they live in a small apartment with only limited food storage. They can buy a few pieces of bulk food and fresh meats and produce. This has to last the month. It's not prudent to spend your EBT money on produce that could rot quickly. You can buy shelf stable food and know that it will last the month. Milk will spoil quickly, so it's easier to buy juice and soda. You could buy sweet potatoes, but those will rot if not used right away potato chips last forever.
Theres so many factors as to why we are seeing obesity with poverty including manufacturers targeting the lower income. This is not only a problem in America. Many emerging post-colonial countries are also seeing a section of their poor population now obese.
You could get a PhD studying this.0 -
Interesting article on how decision fatigue leads to bad choices which may lead to obesity. The premise is that those experiencing poverty have to make a lot more decisions about where to spend their time and money and it wears you down to the point that you don't make good decisions about what to buy and what to eat..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I also read recently that the US has the highest per capita cost for health care and the lowest per capita cost for food - there's probably a relationship to those stats and obesity as well.0 -
"Maybe she is disabled. ?" - A- then she is eligible for disabilityI recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?
It's amazing that everyone thinks its just so easy.
Maybe she is disabled.
Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care.
Maybe she is unemployed temporarily.
Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom.
Maybe her husband left her.
Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him.
Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?
What the hell difference does it make?
"Maybe she has a child that is disabled and cannot afford full time care. " -A - My sister i low income with a disabled child and she cannot afford full time care, there are programs to assist families in that situationMaybe she is unemployed temporarily.- *key word.. temporarily.
"Maybe her husband just died and she was a stay at home mom" - I have a friend who was in that situation a well, and she receiving additional aid, and I don't even believe it was social security because he was not a legal resident of the country.
"Maybe her husband left her"- A- Who says you need a husband to be successful? I don't think the woman activists would appreciate that comment.
"Maybe her husband was abusive and she decided to leave him." - The same sister who has a disabled child also left an abusive x , she went to the woman's shelter .. they exist to get abused women on their feet.
"Maybe this amount includes her full time job and income assistance?"- That seems like a stretch.
Remember - I WAS on food stamps and WiC, that is why I know that there is always a way.
It isn't always some tragic incident, Some people ARE just laze, Some people ARe just unmotivated, SOme people DO just prefer to buy the air jordans and stock up on hot dogs and cheese puffs. Some people DO fake disability and leech the system. Not everybody ... but Probably half. Why do we always try to come up with excuses? Is this a healthy way to improve society?0 -
All I have to say is that people who are not and have never been in poverty should not speak about a subject they have no clue about and you will never understand until you have been there. Continue to speculate though... that will sure solve it all. How about asking someone who has been there or more importantly who is still there. Also feel free to elaborate on your views about their life...but be ready to get a glimpse of how it really is. Or volunteer in some of the worst cities in the US believe me it will open your eyes to problems most only see on tv.0
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I was reading through the thread about who is to blame for obese children. The unanimous consensus is that it's the parents' fault. While I agree to a certain extent, I think people are forgetting a few key pieces of info. Let's take a look at Mississippi. It's the #1 poorest state in the nation. It's also the #1 most obese state in the nation. It's also the #1 most hunger stricken state in the nation. How could that be? How can people be starving AND obese!? It doesn't make sense. Or does it?
If you go to the grocery and buy enough fresh, whole food to feed a family of four for a week, you'll likely spend no less than $200. Good, fresh, real food is terribly expensive. Crap food is not! A cheeseburger, fries, and coke at McDonalds cost $3. A salad at McDonalds cost $6. Fresh produce and meat is expensive compared to ramen noodles and Vienna sausages. It's next to impossible for people living in poverty to eat healthy food!
I don't know how to fix that, but I know that something needs to change if we're going to solve the obesity epidemic in this country!
I agree with this. It is cheaper for me to go get a pizza or some other fast food, or even buy processed food from the supermarket then go out and buy fresh fruit and vegetables or local meat. Why? Doesn't really make sense.0 -
I could read this thread, but I won't.
1) Don't have kids if you can't afford them and to maintain some cushion for a few rainy months (if not possible, don't have kids till this changes),
2) When I couldn't afford to eat, I was thin- not fat.
3) You can actually buy good foods for the same price as junk food if you apply a little forethought, but people just choose the lazy route.
4) Everyone makes excuses because parents never want to take responsibility for their own choices and how they raise their own kids.
5) People in general want to blame everyone else around them for their lives and their kids lives are no exception.0
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