Obesity and poverty...
Replies
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Actually they do. In fact many have a lot of the same processed foods (and more since some of it isn't FDA regulated) that coincides with cost equivalent to how US citizens pay for their junk food. And believe me when I say they have their own versions of fast food eateries. Popular ones in the Philippines was Jollie Bee (even some in the SF BAY AREA) and Chowking.If poverty was the cause of obesity, then 3rd would countries should be having the same issues.
While some of the stats are legit, you would think that making less and having less meant one would eat less. Unfortunately that's usually not the case. And lots of people would rather have "fun" stuff like computers and phones to spend their money on rather than actual whole food.
Before the cell phone boom (I'm not against them), how did families keep in touch or safe if they were away from each other? What's my point? Lots of families have phones and pay well over $150 a month for them rather than actual food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Your logic is flawed. In third world countries, people don't have immediate access to cheap food like substances. In third world countries, people still know how to prepare real food.
In North America, the problem is that convenience food is readily available and cheap because people need it- single working moms don't have a lot of time to prepare meals, so they don't teach their kids how to prepare meals. So when their kids grow up, they don't cook for their kids and rely on cheap, readily available convenience food. It's a vicious cycle.
I will agree about the cooking though.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
The thing is that nutritious foods don't have to be expensive. In my case, my boyfriend and I spend about $300 bucks to feed four people for a month-- cheaper than what was spent eating out-- and that's just shopping at a regular grocery store, no discounts, coupons, etc. And there are cheaper places you can get groceries to feed 3-4 people for 2-3 weeks for about forty bucks-- I know 99 Cents super stores sell groceries for that price because that's what my boyfriend and I spent when we were vacationing in Cali. If you are so poor that you can't afford forty dollars for groceries, there are food banks that will help you get food (ex. feedingamerica.org). There are plenty of people and organizations willing to help hungry people who can't afford food.0
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I know plenty of people who get food stamps and they have a hell of a lot more options that I do as I actually have to pay for my food. If they chose to they could buy fruits, vegetables, lean meats, etc but usually choose not to. Besides getting food stamps if they have kids under 5 they get WIC (fruit, veg, beans, juice, milk FREE) in addition to their stamps their kids get free lunch at school. Please don't try and blame this on anything other than personal responsibility. People get every opportunity to make good decisions0
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In many situations it is sheer laziness on the part of the parents... My parents were sometime very broke when I was growing up. Wanna know what I ate during the "Poor Time" in my child hood?
Bananas and oatmeal for breakfast (oranges or other fruits when we could afford them) boiled eggs and raisins for snacks. Lunch was usually peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat bread and Dinner was rice and beans with shredded chicken, or corn bread and beans, or something else cheep but homemade.
My point is that even with a 30 dollar a week budget, my mom managed to feed all of us 6 children healthy, nutritious foods. I never ate junk food or McDonald's... My mom told us they were too expensive.
Granted this was only a few years of my life, but thanks to my mom being willing to actually COOK nit just shove processed trash at us, we all stayed healthy and energetic and had no health issues! Laziness is the main cause of childhood obesity.
"Sure kid, I could take 40 minutes an make some chicken and rice for your dinner...maybe mix in some frozen veggies, but instead I'm going to shove a frozen pizza at you and keep watching Oprah!"
GEEZE! (Yeah I'm pissed and I might sound "rude" or "judgmental" but I grew up watching my friends mom's letting their houses get FILTHY, never ever cooking, just dumping Cheetos, Frosted flakes and hot dogs etc on the table when kids said they were hungry... and guess what... almost every one of those kids grew up to have weight problems!
If you are too poor to afford rice, beans and frozen veggies (I see them for 99 cents bag here) then you are WAY too poor to afford McDonald's, frozen pizza and doughnuts!0 -
I was raised in the 70's 80's by a single mom who worked at GC Murphy company. (a retail store like K-mart) She made very little money. we were considered poor by todays standards.
She knew absolutely nothing about nutrition. She was raised in the South so the meals she COOKED for me were southern. She cooked with lard and butter and Crisco in the big ole can that she used to store the bacon grease in when it was empty. We ate a lot of greens, fresh I might add, she used to snap the green beans and we ate collard greens with corn bread one of her specialties. She also cooked a lot of fried chicken. She would smother pork chops in batter and my school lunches consisted of bologna and tuna fish. Vienna sausages I ate for snacks and my drink of choice was kool aid
I say that to say this. Neither one of us were obese. Mama was a little over weight but I was stick thin. Why??? Because I rode my bike all summer and roller skated (indoors) in the winter. Obesity has not so much to do with income level as it does activity level. These kids are fat because they eat too much and move too little. Generally speaking. Of course there are exceptions.
And let me add. My mom could go to the grocery store with 20.00 bucks and come out with 5 bags of food. Yes the cost of living is higher now, but my point is she knew how to shop and what to put together. It is just too easy now a days to be lazy in both the way we shop and how we eat...We blame society for our ills when in fact most of the time its our poor choices that got us where we are.0 -
I will probably be bashed for this... HOWEVER, I'm putting it out there anyway.
I agree with you 110% and have thought for a very long time, that we need to find a way to help the people we have living here in our own country, and slow down on helping the other countries. Part of the reason we are falling apart as a country is because we have stopped looking inside and taking care of our own. We MUST fix the things that are broken here before we can go to other countries and fix what is broken.
When we were a stronger country, helping others was vitally important, but in doing so we have lost sight of our own countries needs! I find it extremely sad.
Ok, I'm going to get off of my soap box, because I could go on forever with this :sad:
No argument here either - in the UK a lot of people are starting to think the same thing about our overseas aid programmes especially as a lot of it goes to countries you could hardly describe as poor now, it's just we've historically always given them millions of pounds.
As others have said though, it seems to be more of an educational thing than money. If you haven't been taught about nutrition or how to prepare food from scratch then you may find yourself buying the lasagne for £1 and thinking that's a good dinner.
A lady on the news a couple of days back was showing the presenter how she feeds her family for a silly small amount of money each week. Shopping smart in regular supermarkets and using her freezer well, she was turning out really good nutritional dinners for less than £1 each person, in one case I think she was making bean burgers for 46p!
Spend money to educate the people rather than just giving them more money to spend on more over-processed junk.0 -
This: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-develop-growing-up-poor/
You can blame it on laziness, you can blame it on being poor. The thing I find is that the people who blame it on laziness, have never been poor. Just sayin'. It's waaaaay more complicated than you think.0 -
I was reading through the thread about who is to blame for obese children. The unanimous consensus is that it's the parents' fault. While I agree to a certain extent, I think people are forgetting a few key pieces of info. Let's take a look at Mississippi. It's the #1 poorest state in the nation. It's also the #1 most obese state in the nation. It's also the #1 most hunger stricken state in the nation. How could that be? How can people be starving AND obese!? It doesn't make sense. Or does it?
If you go to the grocery and buy enough fresh, whole food to feed a family of four for a week, you'll likely spend no less than $200. Good, fresh, real food is terribly expensive. Crap food is not! A cheeseburger, fries, and coke at McDonalds cost $3. A salad at McDonalds cost $6. Fresh produce and meat is expensive compared to ramen noodles and Vienna sausages. It's next to impossible for people living in poverty to eat healthy food!
I don't know how to fix that, but I know that something needs to change if we're going to solve the obesity epidemic in this country!
It is the epicenter of the obesity epidemic and in urban poverty areas, it can be very difficult to eat well. I don't know why some folks don't try and grow their own vegetables. Mississippi has lots of arable land. Americans also have to be willing to take the bull by the horns, so to speak, and not wait to have stuff provided for them. Vegetable gardens not only provide healthy foods for consumption but they also provide physical activity!0 -
If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.
Well, I'll be dipped!
This little girl, A Yankee BTW, knows what the answer is,.....in a word.***** laziness!***** And she didn't even have to live in the South or read the New York Times or have some Elitest expert tell her the answer. 0 -
If poverty was the cause of obesity, then 3rd would countries should be having the same issues.
While some of the stats are legit, you would think that making less and having less meant one would eat less. Unfortunately that's usually not the case. And lots of people would rather have "fun" stuff like computers and phones to spend their money on rather than actual whole food.
Before the cell phone boom (I'm not against them), how did families keep in touch or safe if they were away from each other? What's my point? Lots of families have phones and pay well over $150 a month for them rather than actual food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Your logic is flawed. In third world countries, people don't have immediate access to cheap food like substances. In third world countries, people still know how to prepare real food.
In North America, the problem is that convenience food is readily available and cheap because people need it- single working moms don't have a lot of time to prepare meals, so they don't teach their kids how to prepare meals. So when their kids grow up, they don't cook for their kids and rely on cheap, readily available convenience food. It's a vicious cycle.
Agreed!0 -
A good place to start: Nutritional education in the schools.
We eat healthfully and our son (who is 11) will not eat high fat/high sugar foods routinely. Now we're part of it, but he became really adamant about it when his school started a nutrition education program.
I think we could go on for years all agreeing that it is all someone else's fault, but here's an alternative direction: What can we do as a society of improve nutrition education? What are we willing to fund?
As for change, we're all here because we want to lose weight. I don't think anyone here is motivated by someone blaming them for their lbs. So, how do we motivate people?0 -
Hi MFP's,
I am a candidate for a Master of Public Health with a specialty in epidemiology (epidemics,pandemics, chronic and infectious disease) and I have a background coordinating an NGO that dealt exclusively with food insecurity and improving the health and social outcomes of food insecure individuals. Poverty plays a significant role in both childhood and adult obesity.
This issues of food insecurity, food deserts (areas where fresh healthful food is inaccessible or otherwise unavailable) and obesity are intertwined in such a way that individuals without access may have to depend on boxed meals, fast food or other non-perishable options to ensure they are able to sufficiently feed themselves and their families until they can next access food. This is especially true for those who live in food deserts (which are typically populated by the poorest factions of the population). To make matters worse those who depend on food banks will often receive food that is filled with sodium, fat and preservatives and is often very calorie dense. Many food banks do not deal with fresh produce or perishable items and only collect or buy and distribute non-perishable goods. Often food banks could not maintain a stock of perishable foods even if they could collect those items because of the need for refrigeration of some products and because of the perishable nature of fruits and vegetables they may not be able to buy them in bulk or from farmers where they would more reasonably priced. On a regular basis food banks have to delegate funds, would they rather purchase X amount of canned soup or pasta and sauce or some significantly lesser amount of fresh vegetables, being able to feed more people will more likely win out over fresh more varied foods
Another underlying issue is that high fat high sugar foods, along with being inexpensive are also highly palatable and well advertised. As a result children will be more likely to want and ask for items like chips(crisps), boxed macaroni and cheese, Oreo's and other cookies, and sugary cereals like Fruit Loops, Cap't Crunch etc. that are loaded with refined sugar, refined flours, fat and overall are not very nutritious but are addictive. Parents and caregivers play a large role in childhood obesity because they provide and prepare food for young children and as a result they can choose whether or not to buy these items. However, parents may also feel that in giving their children these high fat, high sugar items that they are asking for they are making up for other areas where they may feel their children are being deprived (i.e. not being able to play in organized sports because of cost, not being able to spend much time with their children because of their busy work schedules, not being able to afford new toys, clothes etc.) This is not to say that that type of behavior is correct or that this is the case for all overweight children or parents living in poverty.
Put simply, we live in an environment where cheaper, easier more palatable food is less expensive than healthier alternatives, not to completely shift blame but we need to consider the roles played by the food industry and governments in the cost of food especially fresh food and the provision of (IMO) inadequate social assistance for those living in poverty. This is not to say that I necessarily think we should pour more tax dollars into welfare systems but perhaps subsidize the cost of fresh or fresh frozen healthful foods to make them more appealing and making regularly eating fresh unprocessed food financially feasible for the population as a whole. Though food deserts would need to be examined in order to improve livelihoods in those areas but overall if this were the case, perhaps we would not be facing such a widespread overweight and obesity epidemic in the west (the global north).
Many people living in poverty, even overweight and obese individuals are malnourished. I like to assume that all parents inevitably want the best for their children but simply may not be able to provide the foods that they need to have a healthy varied diet. So we can all assign "blame" as we see fit but as we look at the more holistic picture we may recognize that it is not as cut and dry as we may have thought. I really appreciate whoever posted this topic, its great that we have started the conversation about overweight and obesity and its contributing factors. Many of you have made really great and nuanced points that will contribute to a better understanding of the issue for all of us who read the forums. Keep up the great work MFP's!
Brit0 -
In many situations it is sheer laziness on the part of the parents... My parents were sometime very broke when I was growing up. Wanna know what I ate during the "Poor Time" in my child hood?
Bananas and oatmeal for breakfast (oranges or other fruits when we could afford them) boiled eggs and raisins for snacks. Lunch was usually peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat bread and Dinner was rice and beans with shredded chicken, or corn bread and beans, or something else cheep but homemade.
My point is that even with a 30 dollar a week budget, my mom managed to feed all of us 6 children healthy, nutritious foods. I never ate junk food or McDonald's... My mom told us they were too expensive.
Granted this was only a few years of my life, but thanks to my mom being willing to actually COOK nit just shove processed trash at us, we all stayed healthy and energetic and had no health issues! Laziness is the main cause of childhood obesity.
"Sure kid, I could take 40 minutes an make some chicken and rice for your dinner...maybe mix in some frozen veggies, but instead I'm going to shove a frozen pizza at you and keep watching Oprah!"
GEEZE! (Yeah I'm pissed and I might sound "rude" or "judgmental" but I grew up watching my friends mom's letting their houses get FILTHY, never ever cooking, just dumping Cheetos, Frosted flakes and hot dogs etc on the table when kids said they were hungry... and guess what... almost every one of those kids grew up to have weight problems!
If you are too poor to afford rice, beans and frozen veggies (I see them for 99 cents bag here) then you are WAY too poor to afford McDonald's, frozen pizza and doughnuts!
AMEN sista. I just commented almost the same thing. My mom cooked for us every day. Even working a full time job. We were poor. And we ate good too. I don't remember a lot of steak or roast beef but I do remember a lot of fresh veggies and hamburger and potato's. Grits and salmon cakes with biscuits for breakfast on Sunday mornings. I didn't even go to a fast food restaurant until I was in my mid teens and bought it myself... And I never ever drank soda.. Kool aid is high in sugar but its a whole lot cheaper. I remember the frozen OJ my mom used to make with all the pulp that I hated. Times were hard but they were good and no one was obese. Not me, not any of my friends.. IN fact I think we had one fat friend and by todays standards she would be considered normal weight.0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
Is it sad that this single mother of 2 living on assistance and not working makes less than $100 less than I do a month and I have to pay $100/week for daycare so I can work? Oh and I can't afford cable or internet or anything. With my income, IF I hit my monthly bonus, I save $20/week for groceries. Some months that $20/week goes down to $20/month. It's not exactly easy to find food for that amount of money...0 -
I have never been obese nor have I lived in poverty. I don't think I have any right to speculate on something I have only ever read about.
It's an interesting topic, but I think the key to finding a solution is to ask the people who live this way why they are unable to cook nutritious meals. Is it a lack of readily available ingredients? Is it lack of knowing how to prepare healthy foods? Is it because they actually DO think they are making healthy meals?
As for exercise, perhaps one reason why they are obese is that they are reluctant to go out in their neighbourhood, unless they have to, because they are afraid.
All too often, people make decision for others without ever actually understanding what they need to help them with.
I just wanted to say that this is an excellent question, and I appreciate your approach to the answer. I was raised terribly poor in backwater Kansas, and when people assume my mother didn't do everything she possibly could to give me a better start in life than she had (or that she was uneducated and only needed to *Google*), it hurts my heart.
Beans and toast. That was my dinner for 50% of my childhood. If I plugged that into my log now I'd be over my calorie goal after lunch.
I have many MANY things to say about the people commenting on lazy and unattentive parents. But they're it won't change anyone's mind so I'll keep it to myself.0 -
I think it has more to do with education about food, access to farmers markets, and laziness.
It's been proven eating healthy costs less at the grocery store. I can go to Sprouts and leave with 5 bags full or vegan milk and yogurt, fresh organic veggies and spent 30$. Fast food for 2 costs 15$ for one meal.0 -
I love to promote this blog at times when I think it's relevant:
http://www.poorgirleatswell.com/
Her $25 shopping carts are neat. She also has recipes with a price per serving. Of course, that varies based on where you're living, but still.0 -
I feel the biggest player in why those in poverty spend money they have on "junk" rather than healthy foods is education and media advertising. Just watch TV for a hour or drive through a town and look at the billboards and shops and you will be inundated with messages for for convenience foods. Those in poorer neighborhoods already have issues with schools teaching what the children need and I am pretty sure nutrition is low on that list and probably never even covered. So if a person we up poor without proper education on such issues they haven't been give the tools to know how to make better choices. Throw in then that they are working two minimum pay jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and the lights on the marketing of these so called convenience foods comes into play. A product will say now made with whole wheat and they will think oh well that must be healthy which in reality it's still loaded with sugars and lacking other nutrients.0
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I will probably be bashed for this... HOWEVER, I'm putting it out there anyway.
I agree with you 110% and have thought for a very long time, that we need to find a way to help the people we have living here in our own country, and slow down on helping the other countries. Part of the reason we are falling apart as a country is because we have stopped looking inside and taking care of our own. We MUST fix the things that are broken here before we can go to other countries and fix what is broken.
When we were a stronger country, helping others was vitally important, but in doing so we have lost sight of our own countries needs! I find it extremely sad.
Ok, I'm going to get off of my soap box, because I could go on forever with this :sad:
AMEN!
My thoughts are that there are so many reasons why we have such an obesity problem, it's almost impossible to narrow it down to just one thing. Yes, parents do a lot to encourage one type of eating or another. But, poverty is also a strong factor! I recently watched "Food Inc." that opened my eyes to this. A family was in the grocery store and the younger girl asked if they could buy some pears. How much do you get for a pound? The dad asked. You got 2 - maybe 3 if they were small pears. Nope, sorry to expensive the dad says. This family is forced to decide between healthy eating and the dads diabetic medication. If the dad doesn't get his medication, then they won't be making any more money but the way their eating I'm sure isn't helping his health issue . . . . a vicious circle. And we spend so much looking outside our own when we have HUGE problems within.0 -
Lets also not loose sight of the fact that a lot of us got fat while not in poverty. Because we liked to eat more than we could expend. Some reasons for it are sweeping across all income levels.0
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