Anyone else discovered low calories are their only option?

LiftAllThePizzas

I've found that eating at TDEE causes me to gain weight.

... people keep using "TDEE" but that term does not mean what they think it means.

3dogsrunning

...and another thing (my EMTWL friends will not approve), i've really never seen/heard full-on *goal weight* success stories from folks eating more to weigh less. YES i have heard various NSVs and those feeling much stronger, better sleep, leaning out etc.... (and those ARE successes), but not a whole lot of 'yes, i reset my metabolism and now i am at goal weight and can now lose reasonably at 1500+ (or whatever their particular number).

the real success stories must be there right? i mean this group has over 10k members!

Here is a recent and pretty good one
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/968182-i-lost-a-person-but-i-found-myself-leaky-s-story

Another one that comes to me off the top of my head
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/709987-how-wrong-i-was-600-days-of-mfp-lotsa-pics

I've seen tons of them.

JAT74

To the poster who asked what I was eating before and how much of a cut did I make when joining MFP at first and did I gradually reduce calories in order to find out what maintenance/weight loss was the answer is this.

I didn't count calories at all for a while before joining MFP. I previously lost a lot of weight in 2010 going down to 124 lbs and body fat of approximately 28%. I did this by eating 850-1000 calories per day at the time and exercising around 3 times a week (mainly cardio). When I was at goal weight I relaxed my diet a little and probably went up to 1200 calories at a guess which allowed me to maintain my weight easily.

I gained the weight again mainly because at the time I was a way from home for 2 weeks per month and found that I ate/drank a lot of things I wouldn't normally such as sugary coffee shop coffees, pastries/cakes and a lot of bread/carbs. I also joined a gym for the times I was away and would walk to the gym and back (60 minutes) then work out with cardio/weights for an hour and finally at the end of the workouts I was starving so I'd buy lots of 'treats' from the supermarket on the way home.

This in combination with a generally more relaxed diet and bigger portions meant that during the course of a few months I was back to 144lbs. Then I went on another low calorie diet for 2 months to get the weight down for a summer holiday and got back to 131 lbs but my body fat was a lot higher then too so probably back to around 30-31%. After the holiday it continued to creep up again gradually as I stopped eating very low calories and again had the odd high calorie/high sugar snack inbetween healthy eating of things like pastries/chocolate/cakes (2-3 per week) so that helped the weight creep back on again.

It's impossible to know my average calorie intake during periods of weight gain but I wasn't training much then either so even if I was eating 1200 calories most days (which is likely) plus some days of 1500-1600 that would be more than enough to gain weight as I was very sedentary at that time and only doing a bit of cardio 2-3 days a week for 30-40 minutes.

Looking at what I have been doing on here, when I first joined I decided to set my calories to 1050 initially and then the following week increased them to 1150 (from memory) so ate that for 3-4 weeks. During that time before going the TDEE route and increasing calories I lost 4lbs as well as around 2% body fat. After that I took advice on here and immedately increased my calories to 1350, then 1450, then higher and I was working out a lot more (6 days a week).

I found that I put the 4lbs back on but I've not put on any extra weight above my starting weight of 147 lbs. At one stage I know I was eating around 1800 calories per day as I was eating exercise calories back but I didn't gain more weight, except for putting back on the body fat I had lost in the first few weeks.

Looking at my recent intake of calories and working out some averages it looks like I'm now maintaining my start weight by eating around 1600 calories and that's with burning off 3000 calories per week through exercise. If I take that as my TDEE then I know that in order to lose even 1lb per week which I'd be happy with I'd have to eat 3500 less than that each week therefore meaning that I'd have to eat as little 1100 in order to lose. I'm going to try 1250 first and see if I can lose on that but if not I'll lower it to 1100 if necessary. No it's not much food but if my TDEE (including exercise) is actually 600 calories lower than the calculators tell me then that means my BMR is likely to be too and that means my true BMR is really only around 800.

As for a 'reset' that won't work for me as I've already proven. In other words when I gained all this weight I was hardly exercising and I was eating above maintenance as I my then maintenance calories was probably 1200. I probably ate that some days but other days I ate up to 1600 or maybe a little more so of course I gained. When I joined MFP I then cut calories and should have seen dramatic weight loss which just didn't happen. It looks like my maintenance is now higher but that's only because I'm now training 6-7 days a week instead of 2-3 doing very light exercise. Hope this makes some kind of sense to some people!

sexymuffintop

No, your actual TDEE is 1510. TDEE is by definition the amount you need to maintain. Sorry that your life was wasted and you were unable to do anything else during that entire time or enjoy living or anything. But your TDEE is not 2300. And yes you would lose at 1400. You wouldn't lose as quickly as you would at 1300 but you would still lose. Yes there is a margin of error but the error goes both ways, and you've also already 'calibrated' the relative values of your TDEE and your scale's inaccuracy.

The road map thing that people around here love to push as gospel and follow it, follow it, follow it or die by starvation! gave me that number as did Helloitsdan via PMs. I followed it, gained weight.

But ya know what you are so determined to be right when you don't know me, my lifestyle, stress level or jack diddly about me.

SO here's your "YOU ARE RIGHT!" gold star darling! Go back and play in your precious it's right thread for eat more to weigh less playground.

But for the record, GAINING WEIGHT IS A FAILURE.

I think your response to this poster was completely uncalled for. Look at what they are actually saying! All of the calculators online (including the road map and dan and everything else) uses ESTIMATES that are based on the population at large. The are STARTING points from which you can then refine and discover your individual numbers.

You've done that. Your experimentation found that for you the estimates are not right - your TDEE is lower than the "norm" which is why the numbers you are getting from all theses calculators are wrong.

Your TDEE is 1510. Not whatever the calculators say. Try eating 1510 - 20% for a month and see where you stand.

Which still means I wasted 6 months of time failing at weight loss. That 1510 minus the 20% is 1208. Which according to everything that the eat more folks preach is going to starve me to death. do untold damage to my body.

Now account for the scale inaccuracy, becaue I am not going to personally spend 3 grand on an analytical balance like they use in professional labs, and I probably should stop eating for the day at roughly 1000 to 1050 calories a day to allow for that inaccuracy.

Which will in turn set off riots because OMG! I'm starving myself.

If reading a thread about other folks struggles to follow this hallowed sanctified eat more stuff and it's failures for us personally offends you, then perhaps you should stick to the threads preaching eat more. I don't go in them because they don't work for me and there's no sense telling other people who are doing well they are wrong. Also by that same logic train perhaps telling me I am wrong when I did try it is also just ignorant. But thanks anyway for your PC policing skills. You'd make an excellent HR rep.

Wow. Bitter much? So YOU failed at EATMORE. It didn't work FOR YOU. Do you find it neccessary to be hostile to everyone who writes in this thread who SUCCEEDS with it? Is this thread about you or the OP??? Personally, any learning in the process to a healthy life should be valued...but hey. Continue with your bitterness. For every indivdual who succeeds here on VLCD, there are significantly more succeeding with EatMore.

Exactly this ^^ well said. What an angry and bitter post about everyone who can eat more and lose weight. You sound very aggressive about it all, I think you need to take a look at what you are posting before hitting the 'Post reply' button.

sexymuffintop

OP, sorry if this has already been covered but, EXACTLY what are you doing for strength training? I know you said you had a home gym, bf trains you etc, but I find bf's although well meaning are not always the best ones to turn to for advice. Unless he is a bodybuilding coach or competes professionally I would be tempted to research my own workouts rather than just rely on his advice.

So my point it: What exercises do you do? Sets? Reps? What equipment do you have access to? What cardio do you do?

sexymuffintop

...and another thing (my EMTWL friends will not approve), i've really never seen/heard full-on *goal weight* success stories from folks eating more to weigh less. YES i have heard various NSVs and those feeling much stronger, better sleep, leaning out etc.... (and those ARE successes), but not a whole lot of 'yes, i reset my metabolism and now i am at goal weight and can now lose reasonably at 1500+ (or whatever their particular number).

the real success stories must be there right? i mean this group has over 10k members!

I started on 1200 when I first joined MFP. Couldn't sustain it for longer than 2 months, I eat around 2000 now. I do not have a 'Goal Weight' as that statement is pointless for me. More weight for me means more muscle, which is only a good thing. I would possibly like to consider my time on here 'successful' in the fact that I started very low cal, read, learned, improved and realised 1200 wasn't an option for me, and that I could lose on around 2000 a day.

3dogsrunning

This is a really great one, she actually had her RMR tested before and after and it went up
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/919536-get-your-metabolic-rate-tested-my-metabolic-reset-story

Joehenny

What is your BMR?

sexymuffintop

What is your BMR?

Not trying to be a douche, but i'm pretty certain she said what it was on one of the first 3 pages? The OP seems to of covered every angle lol

JAT74

I'll read the reset story which I have a bit of time later. In the meantime regarding my training my boyfriend isn't training me as such, I just mentioned that to give you an idea of the type of home gym we have. We've converted our garage into a gym and have some cardio machines (Xtrainer, rowing maching, treadmill) plus we have free weights including a dumbbell block up to 30 kg. With free weights we can go quite high as we have a lot of 5, 10 & 20 kg weights and have many dumbbells/barbells of various weights/curly bar, etc. plus a multigym machine for doing cable exercises (high/low) with lots of attachments. We also have a powerplate/vibrating plate machine and some kettlebells. We have 2 benches and some abs cradles/machines.

When I do cardio I normally either do a DVD based workout such as something like Insanity or I use a combination of gym machines for 45 minutes (15 mins each on the machines mentioned above). On the treadmill I normally do intervals of walking/running. Sometimes I just go for a walk for 1-2 hours instead.

When I do weights 3 x a week I normally do the whole body and do 3 sets starting with 1 set of 10 reps then increasing the weight and doing the 2nd set of 8 reps finishing with the 3rd set of 6 reps approx. I normally do legs, chest, biceps, triceps and abs and sometimes shoulders/back but at the moment I'm trying to avoid those parts due to back/shoulder pain. I also use majority free weights and have countless weight training books for ideas about what exercises to do. I also change the exercise I do for each body part so one day I'll do press ups for chest and then the next something involving dumbbells etc.

I don't think I'm doing anything wrong with my training and it's really only been 6-8 weeks that I've been doing weights again so don't expect to see a lot of results from that yet although I am definitely feeling stronger and know that if I could drop some fat I'd start seeing a lot more definition.

JAT74

Yes I've covered everything because I take this all very seriously which is the reason for my original post, I wanted to know if anyone else had the same problems as me and is in the same position.

My BMR is supposed to be 1400 ish according to online calculators but I've come to the conclusion that it's probably closer to 800 in reality and my TDEE is more like 1600 rather than the 2200 the online calculators have it at.

I gained weight to my current weight by eating 1200 calories most days with some days of 1500-1600 calories while being sedenary and only burning off around 800-1000 calories per week through exercise so by most peoples standards I should be skinny but unfortunately I have to work very hard to get there.

sexymuffintop

Have you thought about finding a proper beginner routine to follow? I know strong lifts is done to death on here but I think as a beginner routine it is a great place to start. There's so much more to body building then people give credit for and we could sit here all day and discuss the finer details but I think a full body routine 3 x weekly is a good starting point for various reasons. IMO you NEED a proper, tested weight lifting routine to adhere to.

The whole point behind my post is that for a female it's hard for us to build lean muscle. We need a solid weight lifting regime and a high protein diet. But the more muscle you have the more it will improve your calorie burning potential in the long run. I think for someone like you, a step away from the scales and a change in mindset might help you? Muscle for a female is the best thing you can do for your body. It will eventually free you from the low calorie trap that so many women fall in to lose weight. You don't have to look like a female body builder, Im not saying this, but if you concentrate on body re-composition far more than losing scale weight I think this could help you more in the long haul. This is just my opinion, for what it's worth....I'm not stating it as the only way to improve your body/lose fat/etc etc. That's my disclaimer BTW. Ha.

JAT74

Sexy muffin top I know I could try and gain muscle by eating a lot more protein and maybe not being so concerned with weight gain but at my current size/body fat % I know that's not a good idea as I already look 'chunky' and my largest clothes are fairly tight (no joke) so I definitely need to cut the weight before I even think about building muscle. Maybe if I ever get to goal weight/body fat % I can think about doing that later as I intend on continuing to train 6 days a week which I've never done consistently before. My worry with eating low calories like I've done in the past is firstly that I'll be tempted to eat more than I know my body can tolerate but with 5:2 I don't think this will happen as having 2 vlc days means I can still eat 1450-1650 on the other days theoretically, though I may lower the amount I eat on feast days if that isn't working.

As I'm weight training on non-fast days I should be able to prevent muscle loss anyway from what I've read too.

sexymuffintop

Sexy muffin top I know I could try and gain muscle by eating a lot more protein and maybe not being so concerned with weight gain but at my current size/body fat % I know that's not a good idea as I already look 'chunky' and my largest clothes are fairly tight (no joke) so I definitely need to cut the weight before I even think about building muscle. Maybe if I ever get to goal weight/body fat % I can think about doing that later as I intend on continuing to train 6 days a week which I've never done consistently before. My worry with eating low calories like I've done in the past is firstly that I'll be tempted to eat more than I know my body can tolerate but with 5:2 I don't think this will happen as having 2 vlc days means I can still eat 1450-1650 on the other days theoretically, though I may lower the amount I eat on feast days if that isn't working.

As I'm weight training on non-fast days I should be able to prevent muscle loss anyway from what I've read too.

Are you sure you look 'chunky' really? I know as a woman it's so hard to see ourselves as others do. I've eaten enough to feed a small country these past few days, honestly I have, and I feel huge but I know in reality I'm not...I'm not saying it's all in your head but do you think maybe you've got a bit obsessive about trying to lose now and it's making it all harder? Does that make sense? I kinda mean like when couples have conception problems, they get so stressed and upset about it it makes it all so much harder. Stress takes a huge toll on our bodies and if you are stressed and pent up about losing this weight is going to be mych harder?

For me weight lifting is a joy, I actively love it so I don't see it as a way to lose weight. It's something I look forward to every time I go to the gym. I love the way it makes me feel and the results. You need something in your life fitness wise that makes you feel that way. Life is too short to be constantly battling to lose those few pounds pounding away on a treadmill or feeling hungry all day.

JAT74

I looked at stronglifts but wanted more variety/flexibility with the types of exercises I do and I kickstarted my weight training again by following a routine from another book I have but soon stopped following that too as I didn't feel it was necessary.

The truth is I started weight training around 11-12 years ago when I first decided to get fit/lose weight when I was at my heaviest of 178lbs. I didn't count calories then I just made healthier food choices and went to the gym to do cardio and weights 3 x a week and had a personal training. I lost weight very easily then and got to 122 lbs with 26% body fat and was fairly happy with the way I looked but couldn't sustain it as I was eating very low carb with very few foods I really liked.

So I've actually been weight training to some extent for 12 years but I have only ever managed to weight train for 4-6 weeks before getting injured in the past. This time I've avoided injury and am finding I'm enjoying it so will stick with it this time and I'm lifting heavier weights than I ever have done before too.

If I was a healthier body fat % already and weighed around 130 lbs I wouldn't be so concerned with the scale but at my current fat % and weight I know that I am way over what I should be. Ideally I'd be 115 lbs and lean but I know it will be very hard to get there and I may find that at 130 lbs and leaner I'll be happy as I've mainly only ever got to skinny fat due to eating low calories and little weight trainin.

This time round I'm eating more protein although I am a little scared of doing damage to my kidneys so don't want to go too high (family history of kidney disease although no symptoms/evidence of a problem personally so far).

Squidgeypaws007

Yes I know that, I've done all the maths. I meant that I tried the TDEE -15-25 pc method (for several weeks each time) as well as MFP plus eating back exercise cals, I've tried it all!

I'm sure this has been said - but you've only been logging for 4 months, and at a few weeks per "trial" it may just be an adjustment process. Your body isn't working on "instant" terms, it's not going to sense a change and immediately respond because our daily levels of practically everything fluctuate.

Whatever you choose just do what feels right for you and you're happy with - personally you couldn't pay me to go back to eating so little, but I'm little miss piggy :laugh:

JAT74

No, I'm sure I look chunky! Photos of me over the past couple of years since getting to this weight prove that. My high body fat is distributed unevenly so it's mainly on my upper arms, thighs and bum as well as lower tummy. It makes me look bottom heavy especially as I have a small waist and very thin calves/forearms. I have an hourglass figure which would be great if I was able to lose the fat. My arms and thighs currently look huge compared to the areas with no fat. In fact my thighs are each 23 inches and upper arms 13.5 inches. I've lost on my hips so I'm kind of losing my hourglass shape a bit as my hips are currently 34.5 inches and my waist is still 27.

When I was 122 lbs I didn't measure my thighs or upper arms but I was 25 in the waist and my hips were around 34 and my ribs were showing. I still had chunky thighs and the weight had started to come off my upper arms but I was 26% fat so plenty of room to move.

That shows that at 20% fat I'd probably be a lot lighter as the fat would finally come off my thighs and tummy which are obviously the last places for it to come off so my ideal weight would probably be close to my goal weight of 115.

sexymuffintop

I looked at stronglifts but wanted more variety/flexibility with the types of exercises I do and I kickstarted my weight training again by following a routine from another book I have but soon stopped following that too as I didn't feel it was necessary.

The truth is I started weight training around 11-12 years ago when I first decided to get fit/lose weight when I was at my heaviest of 178lbs. I didn't count calories then I just made healthier food choices and went to the gym to do cardio and weights 3 x a week and had a personal training. I lost weight very easily then and got to 122 lbs with 26% body fat and was fairly happy with the way I looked but couldn't sustain it as I was eating very low carb with very few foods I really liked.

So I've actually been weight training to some extent for 12 years but I have only ever managed to weight train for 4-6 weeks before getting injured in the past. This time I've avoided injury and am finding I'm enjoying it so will stick with it this time and I'm lifting heavier weights than I ever have done before too.

If I was a healthier body fat % already and weighed around 130 lbs I wouldn't be so concerned with the scale but at my current fat % and weight I know that I am way over what I should be. Ideally I'd be 115 lbs and lean but I know it will be very hard to get there and I may find that at 130 lbs and leaner I'll be happy as I've mainly only ever got to skinny fat due to eating low calories and little weight trainin.

This time round I'm eating more protein although I am a little scared of doing damage to my kidneys so don't want to go too high (family history of kidney disease although no symptoms/evidence of a problem personally so far).

I'm not saying i'm a perfect example, no chance. I'm a size 10-12 (uk) so not that slim, but...I at 5ft 4 and I weigh around 153 lbs. It could be more, I haven't weighed myself for about a week. I don't know what my body fat is, I think it's around 23% last time I calculated it. I think you should bin the scales, if they make you feel crap, chuck them. They are very over rated IMO.

sexymuffintop

No, I'm sure I look chunky! Photos of me over the past couple of years since getting to this weight prove that. My high body fat is distributed unevenly so it's mainly on my upper arms, thighs and bum as well as lower tummy. It makes me look bottom heavy especially as I have a small waist and very thin calves/forearms. I have an hourglass figure which would be great if I was able to lose the fat. My arms and thighs currently look huge compared to the areas with no fat. In fact my thighs are each 23 inches and upper arms 13.5 inches. I've lost on my hips so I'm kind of losing my hourglass shape a bit as my hips are currently 34.5 inches and my waist is still 27.

When I was 122 lbs I didn't measure my thighs or upper arms but I was 25 in the waist and my hips were around 34 and my ribs were showing. I still had chunky thighs and the weight had started to come off my upper arms but I was 26% fat so plenty of room to move.

That shows that at 20% fat I'd probably be a lot lighter as the fat would finally come off my thighs and tummy which are obviously the last places for it to come off so my ideal weight would probably be close to my goal weight of 115.

Right, from those measurements that makes you slightly smaller than a UK size 10? yes?

JAT74

I'm the same height as you and currently lighter but I bet if we stood side by side we'd look very different and I'd look a lot heavier. I'm also a UK 10-12 at the moment.

Build also has a lot to do with it too I think. I'm quite broad shouldered but very petite boned and have tiny wrists and ankles/calves.

At 26% body fat I was 122 lbs and was a UK size 8 and happy at that size. I still hated my thighs and at that stage would have given anything to get the body fat down even if it had meant the weight going up.

Were you ever fatter and if so how did you drop the fat?