Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?

xiamjackie

I agree with what a lot of people on here have said.

I often thought to myself when I went out to a clothing store and bought a size 4 pants (obviously vanity size) and a size S or XS shirt.. "What do the people skinnier than me wear?" It seems like clothing sizes are made bigger to accommodate the average sizes we are. It makes bigger people feel good to say they wear a certain size- say a size 8- when maybe five years ago that size 8 would've been a size 12.

I think that people who don't want to workout or eat right want justification for the way they still look. That's what brings on this "real women have curves" stuff. I love women with curves, but healthy curves. Healthiness is sexy.

I think that so many women are insecure about themselves and inadvertently put down others to make them feel better. This brings on the passive aggressive bashing such as "real women have curves". Women are real, no matter what they look like.

mrdexter1

I disagree. I think the real problem is the exact opposite, that people's concepts of normal are far, far too thin (at least for women) due to size 0 models and actresses. The debate over the Special K actress is a perfect example of that. The only reason anyone would think this woman is fat: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/14/article-0-139B1B8A000005DC-690_306x531.jpg

Is because they're used to seeing things like this: http://fametastic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/keira_knightley_premiere.jpg

no... i not one for looking at images in womens magazines.

Its common sense that someone who has an hour glass fit shape and moves with elegance (that is sadly lacking in the uk) is more attractive hands down over someone who has let themselves go in those departments - from a normal males point of view although i do aknowledge their are strange men around that activley seek out or settle for for the latter.

Sarah_L_S

I suppose as everyone gets bigger, the (now larger) average becomes 'normal'.

Living in London, it is rarer to see very overweight people. When I go to see family in the north of England, I notice that the average person is heavier, and that there are a lot of very overweight people.

I agree with other posters about the whole 'curves' nonsense. A big tummy/rolls of fat aren't 'curves' - or if they are, I aim to be curve-less!

It's a shame that we as a society (I have been guilty of this in the past) make excuses and conveniently shift our perspectives to suit our own overeating/lack of exercise, rather than objectively see what a healthy size/weight should be and take responsibility for our own health.

ellie78

I think its a problem and is in essence is no different from the "too thin" image everyone is concerned about. People should not be encouraged to be overweight anymore than they should be encouraged be underweight. Normal defined as an average UK or US woman (size 14/16) is overweight. Normal as defined as a healthy weight would be fine, but that's not typically what we see. Its skewed to one end or the other.

tenintwenty

So sick of real women have curves. Real women have vaginas.

dimsumkitty

So sick of real women have curves. Real women have vaginas.

That's quite rude to trans women who might not have one. Real women identify as women.

postrockandcats

So sick of real women have curves. Real women have vaginas.

That's quite rude to trans women who might not have one. Real women identify as women.

I was about to say the same thing. Real women call themselves women. Reproductive organs are a moot point.

toutmonpossible

I don't know about the UK, but it's definitely true in the U.S. I've read more than one article saying that one reason people are obese is because they've lost touch with what is a normal weight. Some folks here jump to silly conclusions. They automatically accuse people below a certain weight of being anorexic or "low calorie nutters" without knowing anything about the person's build, weight history, or age, among other relevant factors.

toutmonpossible

Living in London, it is rarer to see very overweight people.

The same is true in New York.

kitka82

I think that we have become increasingly concerned with aesthetics over the value of a healthy lifestyle. We have an unhealthy body image, yet we are less active and we eat way more crap than our grandparents did. Doesn't make any sense. As long as a person is eating well and exercising, then who cares if they look good in a bikini? And who are we to judge?

tenintwenty

So sick of real women have curves. Real women have vaginas.

This bigoted nonsense right here is just as bad as 'Real women have curves'.

Ummmm... what?

postrockandcats

If vanity sizing in a clue, then yes- our perceptions of fat vs thin on the people around us have changed. I wear a 12 jean now, which is supposedly smaller than what I wore in High School 15-20 years ago, but it's really not. I looked at a few pics of myself from back then, and I'm still a bit larger. Not to mention that size 0 pair of jeans I held up in Kohl's the other day looked oddly similar in size to a friend's size 6 from 10 years ago...

Interestingly, I was probably a healthy BMI in High School but I was getting "you should lose weight" speech a lot from doctors, Dad and a handful of friends. When I was 240 more recently, no one seemed to think it was odd or unhealthy. In fact, when I told a few people how large I was, I got odd looks and "really? I didn't think you were that fat" comments. Now, it could have been more to do with the fact that I lived in Los Angeles then and The South now, but I'm leaning more towards perception.

castadiva

I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.

The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.

*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!

You were saying?

There were plenty of slender celebrities in the last century, and there are plenty of large celebrities today. Aside from fashion models for a brief period in the last decade (they've got bigger again now), the ideal aesthetic hasn't got any smaller. We've just got bigger. (See vanity sizing!)

One or two exceptions to the rule does not prove your point. I'm talking about the standard 'ideal' of Hollywood, both then and now. As you say, there are a handful (I'm not sure about 'plenty') of larger successful actresses/singers/celebrities now - Kate Winslet, Adele, Queen Latifah, to choose varied examples of women who have succeeded despite being larger than the standard 'ideal' in their industry. Similarly, in earlier years, there were a few who succeeded in spite of not matching the 'ideal' aesthetic of the time. Hepburn was exceptionally petite and boyishly-figured for a star of the period - "too skinny " was the judgement of more than one studio executive. Look at the majority of stars around her, or any other very-petite actress of the 20th Century up until the 'waif' look of the 90's arrived, and you will see a much less-thin prevailing aesthetic than the one we have now, even in the 60's when Twiggy's look was changing the fashion world.

Achrya

So sick of real women have curves. Real women have vaginas.

This bigoted nonsense right here is just as bad as 'Real women have curves'.

Ummmm... what?

To state that real women have vaginas basically discounts trans women and the issues they face in society. You're calling them 'fake' women with your statement, which is extremely bigoted and just as bad as large or curvy women saying that their smaller or less curvy counterparts aren't real women.

FlaxMilk

I can't believe anyone would find that woman in the red bathing suit fat. When I clicked on the link, I expected to find a borderline overweight woman, who could be considered chubby or "thick" by the average person, and instead found a woman who looks like she is at most a 22 on the BMI scale.

cjpembo

When I was in high school (late 1980's) all the girls were thin - a B-cup at best and perhaps 3 girls out of 50 were "fat". They all ran track and looked like young girls.

I attended my niece's high school basketball game last month: things have changed. Boys and girls are about 20 lbs heavier now. Back in the 80's, about 1/4 of all guys could run a 70 sec 1/4 mile... without training. Looks like they'd die trying now. They just don't see what's happening.

I've been trying to think of a nice way to introduce my graduating niece to MFP... without hurting her feelings.

dimsumkitty

One or two exceptions to the rule does not prove your point. I'm talking about the standard 'ideal' of Hollywood, both then and now. As you say, there are a handful (I'm not sure about 'plenty') of larger successful actresses/singers/celebrities now - Kate Winslet, Adele, Queen Latifah, to choose varied examples of women who have succeeded despite being larger than the standard 'ideal' in their industry. Similarly, in earlier years, there were a few who succeeded in spite of not matching the 'ideal' aesthetic of the time. Hepburn was exceptionally petite and boyishly-figured for a star of the period - "too skinny " was the judgement of more than one studio executive. Look at the majority of stars around her, or any other very-petite actress of the 20th Century up until the 'waif' look of the 90's arrived, and you will see a much less-thin prevailing aesthetic than the one we have now, even in the 60's when Twiggy's look was changing the fashion world.

I'm not too up to date on modern celebrities, but if the names you mentioned in your original post are anything to go by, I still disagree with your point. Reese Witherspoon is pretty much the same size now as Marilyn Monroe was (both beautiful, and by no means tiny), Anne Hathaway is no smaller than Ava was, and Doris Day was pretty slim in her youth too. I agree Kristen Stewart is quite slim though, yes.







If we think they look smaller, it's only by comparison to the larger people who surround them. (Beyonce, Kim K and Nicki Minaj are ones I see quite a lot.) Or in the case of Ms Hathaway, she slimmed down to play a starving woman in a film, then went back to her usual weight, which is why people think she's very thin.

Someone nowadays who emulates a 50s style body is Dita von Teese, and I think you'll agree that she's in better shape than the majority of celebs we see now!

jen10st

yes definitely and vanity sizing has a LOT to answer for. Marylin Monroe was a size 16 and looked very slim compared to your average size 16 lady these days. I put on nearly four stone over the last decade and clothes sizes grew with me so I only went from a size 12-14 to a 14-16. People don't want the number on their clothes to go up so shops simply changed the numbers to keep an ever growing population happy so now in new look stores for example a size 18 is now a 16 and a size 16 is a 14 and so on down the line.

Achrya

When I was in high school (late 1980's) all the girls were thin - a B-cup at best

:noway: Well this sounds like an awful time.

Jackson4590

Absolutely. If everyone around us is overweight we think it's okay.

My doctor told me to lose 15 pounds and when I told people this they said "you're not fat". My response was "I just don't look fat compared to everyone else". Everyone has excuses.