Giant dude, 1 year testing, found true TDEE. Surprising!
GetSoda
Posts: 1,267 Member
6'7 male, 255 lbs, 24% body fat.
Exercise is lifting 3-5x a week, 45-90 minutes.
Walking 5+ hours a week.
Bicycle on occasion.
The above exercise seems to make no difference to fat gain or loss.
I've eaten for months at several calorie levels.
Calculated TDEE is about 3100 calories per day.
Calculated BMR is 2300 calories per day.
These are GROSS calories, not net.
3100+ calories = Steady weight gain - Decent strength progress, but mostly gaining fat. (Went from 230lbs to 260lbs eating 3300 a day on average, high protein. Body fat went up considerably)
2200-3000 calories = Slow weight gain - Able to make progress in strength training.
2000-2200 calories = Maintenance - Slow strength progress.
1600-1900 calories = Weight loss of about .5lb/week - Problems gaining strength
1200-1500 calories = Weight loss of about 1lb/week - Strength reduction
Macros were at least 150g of protein per day on the lowest calorie goal, 240 on the highest.
I found that heavy fat, less carbs would allow me to eat slightly more calories.
The problem is, of course, that I won't eat 1500-1800 calories to lose weight. It's just not enough. I've also found that exercise has little to no impact on weight loss for me.
I feel fine, energetic, and such at that level, I just hate it.
Perhaps I have a boned metabolism. Or perhaps I am very efficient and turning food into fuel. Who knows?
Exercise is lifting 3-5x a week, 45-90 minutes.
Walking 5+ hours a week.
Bicycle on occasion.
The above exercise seems to make no difference to fat gain or loss.
I've eaten for months at several calorie levels.
Calculated TDEE is about 3100 calories per day.
Calculated BMR is 2300 calories per day.
These are GROSS calories, not net.
3100+ calories = Steady weight gain - Decent strength progress, but mostly gaining fat. (Went from 230lbs to 260lbs eating 3300 a day on average, high protein. Body fat went up considerably)
2200-3000 calories = Slow weight gain - Able to make progress in strength training.
2000-2200 calories = Maintenance - Slow strength progress.
1600-1900 calories = Weight loss of about .5lb/week - Problems gaining strength
1200-1500 calories = Weight loss of about 1lb/week - Strength reduction
Macros were at least 150g of protein per day on the lowest calorie goal, 240 on the highest.
I found that heavy fat, less carbs would allow me to eat slightly more calories.
The problem is, of course, that I won't eat 1500-1800 calories to lose weight. It's just not enough. I've also found that exercise has little to no impact on weight loss for me.
I feel fine, energetic, and such at that level, I just hate it.
Perhaps I have a boned metabolism. Or perhaps I am very efficient and turning food into fuel. Who knows?
0
Replies
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Have you given your body enough time at a new level to really be sure of your progress/result? 4-6 weeks is probably best.
I cannot imagine that your maintenance TDEE is lower than mine - I am 5'2", female and weight train 90 minutes x3 times per week. My TDEE is around 2200-2300.0 -
Have you given your body enough time at a new level to really be sure of your progress/result? 4-6 weeks is probably best.
I cannot imagine that your maintenance TDEE is lower than mine - I am 5'2", female and weight train 90 minutes x3 times per week. My TDEE is around 2200-2300.
Usually 4 weeks. Longer for the higher calories. Mostly because, you know, food is ****ing delicious.
Just 2 weeks at the 1200 level, which may mostly be loss from water. Because, **** that. My burrito is 996 calories.0 -
Have you given your body enough time at a new level to really be sure of your progress/result? 4-6 weeks is probably best.
I cannot imagine that your maintenance TDEE is lower than mine - I am 5'2", female and weight train 90 minutes x3 times per week. My TDEE is around 2200-2300.
I agree with this. How long did you test each calorie range? I also find your TDEE to be too low for a guy of your size. I'm 9 inches shorter and about 70 lbs lighter, and my TDEE is around 3200 to 34000 -
Have you given your body enough time at a new level to really be sure of your progress/result? 4-6 weeks is probably best.
I cannot imagine that your maintenance TDEE is lower than mine - I am 5'2", female and weight train 90 minutes x3 times per week. My TDEE is around 2200-2300.
I agree with this. How long did you test each calorie range? I also find your TDEE to be too low for a guy of your size. I'm 9 inches shorter and about 70 lbs lighter, and my TDEE is around 3200 to 3400
I gave the ~3300 calories probably about 2 months, and trained my *kitten* off with the weights. Meanwhile reading bodybuilding dotcom posts about 6'0 dudes not being able to gain even eating 4000 calories a day.
I got pretty fat and I'm still working to lose that.0 -
Have you given your body enough time at a new level to really be sure of your progress/result? 4-6 weeks is probably best.
I cannot imagine that your maintenance TDEE is lower than mine - I am 5'2", female and weight train 90 minutes x3 times per week. My TDEE is around 2200-2300.
I agree with this. How long did you test each calorie range? I also find your TDEE to be too low for a guy of your size. I'm 9 inches shorter and about 70 lbs lighter, and my TDEE is around 3200 to 3400
I gave the ~3300 calories probably about 2 months, and trained my *kitten* off with the weights. Meanwhile reading bodybuilding dotcom posts about 6'0 dudes not being able to gain even eating 4000 calories a day.
I got pretty fat and I'm still working to lose that.
So, you gave each level enough time...so, are you weighing your food? That is probably your issue combined with overestimating calories burned during workout... something to consider0 -
If you want to lose weight you need to eat around 1500 -1900 calories from what you have said - just accept it! It's not even that little, I would be gaining weight eating that much
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Hah, I knew it. Your results match what I thought.
Thank you very much for posting this.
CoachReddy you seeing this? This guy's a helluva lot bigger than me. I say my 1500 a day is about right.0 -
If you want to lose weight you need to eat around 1500 -1900 calories from what you have said - just accept it! It's not even that little, I would be gaining weight eating that much
You're not a man. No adult male should be eating 1500 calories, period.0 -
lolololololHah, I knew it. Your results match what I thought.
Thank you very much for posting this.
CoachReddy you seeing this? This guy's a helluva lot bigger than me. I say my 1500 a day is about right.
how do i reply to this without getting banned......hmmmm0 -
6'7 male, 255 lbs, 24% body fat.
Exercise is lifting 3-5x a week, 45-90 minutes.
Walking 5+ hours a week.
Bicycle on occasion.
The above exercise seems to make no difference to fat gain or loss.
I've eaten for months at several calorie levels.
Calculated TDEE is about 3100 calories per day.
Calculated BMR is 2300 calories per day.
These are GROSS calories, not net.
3100+ calories = Steady weight gain - Decent strength progress, but mostly gaining fat. (Went from 230lbs to 260lbs eating 3300 a day on average, high protein. Body fat went up considerably)
2200-3000 calories = Slow weight gain - Able to make progress in strength training.
2000-2200 calories = Maintenance - Slow strength progress.
1600-1900 calories = Weight loss of about .5lb/week - Problems gaining strength
1200-1500 calories = Weight loss of about 1lb/week - Strength reduction
Macros were at least 150g of protein per day on the lowest calorie goal, 240 on the highest.
I found that heavy fat, less carbs would allow me to eat slightly more calories.
The problem is, of course, that I won't eat 1500-1800 calories to lose weight. It's just not enough. I've also found that exercise has little to no impact on weight loss for me.
I feel fine, energetic, and such at that level, I just hate it.
Perhaps I have a boned metabolism. Or perhaps I am very efficient and turning food into fuel. Who knows?
why do you hate it if you feel fine and energetic? out of curiosity...0 -
Please cite sources.You're not a man. No adult male should be eating 1500 calories, period.
The man's own personal results showed he can function with 1200 to 1500 calories. Should a adult male dwarf not eat less than 1500 calories? Should a average sized work-from-home male who spends 90% of his conscious hours doing programming/software design not be consuming 1500 calories?why do you hate it if you feel fine and energetic? out of curiosity...
Cause calorie deficit dieting sucks no matter how hard you try to make it not suck.0 -
Please cite sources.You're not a man. No adult male should be eating 1500 calories, period.
The man's own personal results showed he can function with 1200 to 1500 calories. Should a adult male dwarf not eat less than 1500 calories? Should a average sized work-from-home male who spends 90% of his conscious hours doing programming/software design not be consuming 1500 calories?why do you hate it if you feel fine and energetic? out of curiosity...
Cause calorie deficit dieting sucks no matter how hard you try to make it not suck.
it doesn't have to.
and the OP was not functioning on 1200-1500 calories. he was losing muscle mass, as he stated.0 -
Please cite sources.You're not a man. No adult male should be eating 1500 calories, period.
The man's own personal results showed he can function with 1200 to 1500 calories. Should a adult male dwarf not eat less than 1500 calories? Should a average sized work-from-home male who spends 90% of his conscious hours doing programming/software design not be consuming 1500 calories?why do you hate it if you feel fine and energetic? out of curiosity...
Cause calorie deficit dieting sucks no matter how hard you try to make it not suck.
it doesn't have to.
and the OP was not functioning on 1200-1500 calories. he was losing muscle mass, as he stated.
He's right, it doesn't have to suck. I'm eating at a calorie deficit and I'm eating FOOD, lots of food....steak,chicken, fish, turkey, veggies, fruit, bread, peanut butter, cheese, occasional ice cream (yea sugar free) and chocolate.0 -
The problem is, of course, that I won't eat 1500-1800 calories to lose weight. It's just not enough.
Your mind's saying one thing.
Your body's saying another thing.
When it comes to weight loss your body will win.
Accept it or accept a slower rate of loss.0 -
He's right, it doesn't have to suck. I'm eating at a calorie deficit and I'm eating FOOD, lots of food....steak,chicken, fish, turkey, veggies, fruit, bread, peanut butter, cheese, occasional ice cream (yea sugar free) and chocolate.
He's right, you're right. You can eat at BMR or TDEE levels and lost a tenth of a pound a week and feel like everything's great... Until you get frustrated that you're not losing 2 pounds a week and you say "f-- it, I'm incapable of losing fat" and binge. If that's not you, then I really applaud your patience and your patience is a virtue I wish I had.Your mind's saying one thing.
Your body's saying another thing.
When it comes to weight loss your body will win.
Accept it or accept a slower rate of loss.
I say your willpower (or lack thereof) will win.
________________________________________________________________________
Greco roman wrestlers, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners, MMA fighters, et. al. all choose to "cut" weight by implementing low calorie diets. And they are athletes who train, and train hard.
So to suggest a male shouldn't eat below a certain number of calories is a fallacy. It all depends on how fast a person wants (or needs in some cases) to lose. Before anyone jumps in with muscle loss or "metabolism shut-down", two things:
Some muscle loss is a part of a calorie deficit, and cannot be avoided (with the exception of chemicals). Just accept it, and while you're losing weight, put some time into reading up on putting lean mass back on without excessive fat gain.
"Metabolism shut down" here is a partial quote from someone from somewhere else that has actual results (from "clients" following his guidelines) and near as I can tell, knows what he's talking about:
"Malnourished prisoners (POWs etc.) do not stall out in a consistent calorie deficit. There would be a point where you would start catabolizing muscle tissue to meet energy needs if your output was much greater then your intake (and were not talking one day we are talking week long chunks here)."0 -
Please cite sources.You're not a man. No adult male should be eating 1500 calories, period.
The man's own personal results showed he can function with 1200 to 1500 calories. Should a adult male dwarf not eat less than 1500 calories? Should a average sized work-from-home male who spends 90% of his conscious hours doing programming/software design not be consuming 1500 calories?why do you hate it if you feel fine and energetic? out of curiosity...
Cause calorie deficit dieting sucks no matter how hard you try to make it not suck.
Function? yeah.....no. he's burning through all types of muscle mass at that amount.0 -
If you go to many BB sites you will see guys cutting using a range of 1,500 - 1,800 calories. It is pretty aggressive but sometimes people prefer quicker loss over the slow and steady approach.
I think if a person does does use this range they should incorporate refeeds and well timed diet breaks to prevent metabolic slow down over and above predicted by loss of weight. For example a 6-8 week aggressive phase followed by a 1 - 2 week diet break before going back on the aggressive cut can work well as well as a refeed once or twice a week depending on leaness.
The real killer though is not metabolic slowdown in my opinion but unconscious lowering of daily activity and higher efficiency of movement. Therefore you should do as much as possible to keep normal daily activity as high as possible. I think limiting cardio is a good idea and keeping your diet tight so it does the work for you.0 -
Function? yeah.....no. he's burning through all types of muscle mass at that amount.
OK. I'll honestly accept that statement if you can back that up with a scientific medical study0 -
Function? yeah.....no. he's burning through all types of muscle mass at that amount.
OK. I'll honestly accept that statement if you can back that up with a scientific medical study
I don't have time to argue over the internet,I have better things to do. it's common sense. look it up yourself0 -
I don't get it. If your TDEE is 3100, how can you maintain at 2200 and your BMR be higher than your maintenance level? It makes no sense to me at all.0
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Function? yeah.....no. he's burning through all types of muscle mass at that amount.
OK. I'll honestly accept that statement if you can back that up with a scientific medical study
the OP, who you are basing your argument off, said it himself:
"1600-1900 calories = Weight loss of about .5lb/week - Problems gaining strength
1200-1500 calories = Weight loss of about 1lb/week - Strength reduction "
in other words, he was losing muscle mass at those caloric intake levels.
body builders use 1500 to 1800 to cut for a very short amount of time. your whole idea that doing this long term is idiotic, and every body builder or athlete you talk to will agree that it is NOT conducive for building or even RETAINING muscle.0 -
I don't have time to argue over the internet,I have better things to do. it's common sense. look it up yourself
Here's the thing: I have looked it up and cannot find any supporting medical study.0 -
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He's right, it doesn't have to suck. I'm eating at a calorie deficit and I'm eating FOOD, lots of food....steak,chicken, fish, turkey, veggies, fruit, bread, peanut butter, cheese, occasional ice cream (yea sugar free) and chocolate.
He's right, you're right. You can eat at BMR or TDEE levels and lost a tenth of a pound a week and feel like everything's great... Until you get frustrated that you're not losing 2 pounds a week and you say "f-- it, I'm incapable of losing fat" and binge. If that's not you, then I really applaud your patience and your patience is a virtue I wish I had.I don't know if it's patience or I'm just plain sick of feeling crappy. I started this slow, and really went through my diet first. I made changes that I knew I could live with for the rest of my life. If I don't lose 2lbs a week it's ok. I will lose and I've given myself plenty of time. I'm not under any illusion that I"m going to be at my goal weight in a month or two. More like 6 or 7 months. I don't binge, which I'm thankful for. If I know I want something that's going to push me over in calories or sugar etc. I push my exercise further so i can have that. For me it's a give and take kind of thing. I'll wish my patience or whatever it is on you :flowerforyou: and best of luck
Your mind's saying one thing.
Your body's saying another thing.
When it comes to weight loss your body will win.
Accept it or accept a slower rate of loss.
I say your willpower (or lack thereof) will win.
________________________________________________________________________
Greco roman wrestlers, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners, MMA fighters, et. al. all choose to "cut" weight by implementing low calorie diets. And they are athletes who train, and train hard.
So to suggest a male shouldn't eat below a certain number of calories is a fallacy. It all depends on how fast a person wants (or needs in some cases) to lose. Before anyone jumps in with muscle loss or "metabolism shut-down", two things:
Some muscle loss is a part of a calorie deficit, and cannot be avoided (with the exception of chemicals). Just accept it, and while you're losing weight, put some time into reading up on putting lean mass back on without excessive fat gain.
"Metabolism shut down" here is a partial quote from someone from somewhere else that has actual results (from "clients" following his guidelines) and near as I can tell, knows what he's talking about:
"Malnourished prisoners (POWs etc.) do not stall out in a consistent calorie deficit. There would be a point where you would start catabolizing muscle tissue to meet energy needs if your output was much greater then your intake (and were not talking one day we are talking week long chunks here)."
[/quote]0 -
Your numbers aren't making any sense. I'm 5'1", 125 lbs, 19.3% body fat and I maintain at around 2100-2300. I strength train/lift 4-5 days a week. I do cardio 5-6 days a week.0
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[/quote]
Lol, dang it....I'm just learning how to quote on these boards and I did it wrong again....the "minds saying one thing, body's saying another wasn't meant to be in that quote, someone else said that[quote
]
He's right, it doesn't have to suck. I'm eating at a calorie deficit and I'm eating FOOD, lots of food....steak,chicken, fish, turkey, veggies, fruit, bread, peanut butter, cheese, occasional ice cream (yea sugar free) and chocolate.
He's right, you're right. You can eat at BMR or TDEE levels and lost a tenth of a pound a week and feel like everything's great... Until you get frustrated that you're not losing 2 pounds a week and you say "f-- it, I'm incapable of losing fat" and binge. If that's not you, then I really applaud your patience and your patience is a virtue I wish I had.I don't know if it's patience or I'm just plain sick of feeling crappy. I started this slow, and really went through my diet first. I made changes that I knew I could live with for the rest of my life. If I don't lose 2lbs a week it's ok. I will lose and I've given myself plenty of time. I'm not under any illusion that I"m going to be at my goal weight in a month or two. More like 6 or 7 months. I don't binge, which I'm thankful for. If I know I want something that's going to push me over in calories or sugar etc. I push my exercise further so i can have that. For me it's a give and take kind of thing. I'll wish my patience or whatever it is on you :flowerforyou: and best of luck
Your mind's saying one thing.
Your body's saying another thing.
When it comes to weight loss your body will win.
Accept it or accept a slower rate of loss.
I say your willpower (or lack thereof) will win.
________________________________________________________________________
Greco roman wrestlers, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners, MMA fighters, et. al. all choose to "cut" weight by implementing low calorie diets. And they are athletes who train, and train hard.
So to suggest a male shouldn't eat below a certain number of calories is a fallacy. It all depends on how fast a person wants (or needs in some cases) to lose. Before anyone jumps in with muscle loss or "metabolism shut-down", two things:
Some muscle loss is a part of a calorie deficit, and cannot be avoided (with the exception of chemicals). Just accept it, and while you're losing weight, put some time into reading up on putting lean mass back on without excessive fat gain.
"Metabolism shut down" here is a partial quote from someone from somewhere else that has actual results (from "clients" following his guidelines) and near as I can tell, knows what he's talking about:
"Malnourished prisoners (POWs etc.) do not stall out in a consistent calorie deficit. There would be a point where you would start catabolizing muscle tissue to meet energy needs if your output was much greater then your intake (and were not talking one day we are talking week long chunks here)."0 -
Function? yeah.....no. he's burning through all types of muscle mass at that amount.
OK. I'll honestly accept that statement if you can back that up with a scientific medical study
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_ExperimentSemi-Starvation Period (24 weeks): During the 6-month semi-starvation period, each subject’s dietary intake was cut to approximately 1,560 calories per day. Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war.
and what happened?Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.[1]:161 There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[5] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation.[1]:123-124 The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema in their extremities, presumably due to decreased levels of plasma proteins given that the body's ability to construct key proteins like albumin is based on available energy sources.
and one of them chopped their own hand off.
but yeah man, 1500 calories for a 6'2" man sounds just right.0 -
u aient doing enough cardio
i dont see how u are losing aNY WEIGHT0 -
True, but their diets are extremely nutritious and a lot of the weight they cut is water weight. They are used to cutting this weight and it's under the guidance of pretty knowledgeable experts. Even with all of this, there are frequently performance issues on fight day because this extreme weight loss has impacted them so badly.Greco roman wrestlers, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners, MMA fighters, et. al. all choose to "cut" weight by implementing low calorie diets. And they are athletes who train, and train hard.
This quote is directly contradicted by the facts and evidence learned in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. These prisoners were eating 1600 calories a day, having deficits of over 1600 calories a day, yet their weight loss was much less than .5 lb per day such a deficit should suggest. The data collected during this experiment has been exhaustively analyzed and one of the major reasons suggested for this is metabolic slowdown."Malnourished prisoners (POWs etc.) do not stall out in a consistent calorie deficit. There would be a point where you would start catabolizing muscle tissue to meet energy needs if your output was much greater then your intake (and were not talking one day we are talking week long chunks here)."
So you can listen to what science has to say or you can follow the advice of some dude on some site somewhere who 'as near as I can tell, knows what he's talking about'
It's a fascinating study. If you want to read more about it it's here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
EDIT: Looks like CoachReddy beat me to it 0 -
I'm not one to give advice, but this kind of stood out to me. You said you're walking (I extrapolate) 10-20 miles a week... That's not a lot of activity for most "active" people. Probably not much burn going on there. A mile walk is like 100 calories for me, or about 45-50 calories over sitting on my butt doing nothing. You're bigger than I am (and male, which I know makes a difference) and would burn a bit more per mile, but still. It's no wonder that level of exercise has "little or no impact on weight loss."6'7 male, 255 lbs, 24% body fat.
Exercise is lifting 3-5x a week, 45-90 minutes.
Walking 5+ hours a week.
Bicycle on occasion.
The above exercise seems to make no difference to fat gain or loss.
...
The problem is, of course, that I won't eat 1500-1800 calories to lose weight. It's just not enough. I've also found that exercise has little to no impact on weight loss for me.
So if you want to burn more fat and eat more than your current deficit, maybe boost your cardio? Perhaps adding an activity that burns more calories would give you a higher ceiling on your daily deficit and help resolve the dilemma. Your regular lifting should keep you from losing much muscle in the process.
Burn more, eat more... It works for a lot of folks, including me. May be worth a try for you. Just a thought, since you seem frustrated with what you're doing now.0 -
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
and what happened?
and one of them chopped their own hand off.
but yeah man, 1500 calories for a 6'2" man sounds just right.
1) Semi-starvation lasted 24 weeks and consisted of: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni. Protein consumption of at least .8 grams per pound of bodyweight has been proven to prevent/slow the loss of muscle mass.
2) each man was assigned specific work tasks, was expected to walk 22 miles each week. So the subjects walked 3 miles a day (assuming a 7 day work week) in addition to a job in which no hours were specified. Could've been 1 hour, or 12 hours. Naturally anyone walking 3 miles a day + working needs more calories. This study was trying to copy "people in Europe during the latter stages of the war (WWII)". These folks were working hard all day to grow/hunt/gather food and quite likely chopping & sawing wood for heating.
The average overweight american dieter today drives everywhere and (generally) does not work a labor-intensive job.
3) The "results" all describe physiological results, and only 1 physical: edema.
In the link you provided, there is no mention of percentage of muscle mass lost. And even if there were, it would be largely irrelevant due to the lack of protein. Which (again) slows/prevents muscle mass lost.
In the end the only thing we're arguing about is HOW MUCH mass is lost. Which, thanks to adequate protein consumption, can be minimized.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23645387Current research suggests that dietary protein supplementation can augment resistance exercise-mediated gains in skeletal muscle mass and strength and can preserve skeletal muscle mass during periods of diet-induced energy restriction.
I have nothing else to say, I'm done here.0
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