Protein cannot get stored as fat

honkytonks85
honkytonks85 Posts: 669 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I had someone at work tell me today that protein could not be stored as fat. At all. Regardless of how much you had of it.

I don't believe this is true but it's hard to find any scientific evidence either way. Can someone please enlighten me?
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Replies

  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html
  • haroon_awan
    haroon_awan Posts: 1,208 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    This.
  • suelegal
    suelegal Posts: 1,282 Member
    I read that but the logic doesn't follow. If you eat too many calories you will gain weight. Ok, I understand if you are exercising to build muscle, then you might not gain fat, however, if you eat too much food, and are not doing anything to use the excess it's not just sloughing off, it's adding fat.
  • honkytonks85
    honkytonks85 Posts: 669 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    I'm kind of more looking for journals / peer reviewed papers into the matter. I did come across this article but it doesn't list any citations.
  • barrattandrew
    barrattandrew Posts: 148
    I can't make head nor tail of this. Bumping in the hope that either SideSteel or Sarauk2sf will comment.
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    There are probably few "peer reviewed papers" around because this is accepted knowledge. A textbook on metabolic biochemistry will show how metabolic pathways are linked and excess macronutrients (whatever they are) are broken down and reassembled and stored as fat if in excess. If you would really like to see some evidence, I can probably find something in an online textbook. I'll have a look...

    Edited to add this. It's a simplified image of the metabolic pathways from one of the textbook publishers (Pearson). It shows how macronutrients are broken down in red (catabolism) and enter common pathways. Is also shows that many of the pathways go in reverse so that the body can produce macronutrients (with a few exceptions) from precursors from the common pathways by a process called anabolism. With proteins, the nitrogen component is removed and excreted and the rest enters the common catabolic pathway where, if excess to the needs of the body, it can certainly be converted to fat for storage.

    http://biology-pictures.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/cellular-metabolism-summary.html
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    I read that but the logic doesn't follow. If you eat too many calories you will gain weight. Ok, I understand if you are exercising to build muscle, then you might not gain fat, however, if you eat too much food, and are not doing anything to use the excess it's not just sloughing off, it's adding fat.

    Excess calories lead to fat gain - that's pretty much the take home message.

    It is harder for protein and then carbs to be processed by the body and then converted to body fat than it is for dietary fat when in a calorie surplus.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    There are probably few "peer reviewed papers" around because this is accepted knowledge. A textbook on metabolic biochemistry will show how metabolic pathways are linked and excess macronutrients (whatever they are) are broken down and reassembled and stored as fat if in excess. If you would really like to see some evidence, I can probably find something in an online textbook. I'll have a look...

    Yup.

    590metabolism.gif
  • honkytonks85
    honkytonks85 Posts: 669 Member
    I read that but the logic doesn't follow. If you eat too many calories you will gain weight. Ok, I understand if you are exercising to build muscle, then you might not gain fat, however, if you eat too much food, and are not doing anything to use the excess it's not just sloughing off, it's adding fat.

    Excess calories lead to fat gain - that's pretty much the take home message.

    It is harder for protein and then carbs to be processed by the body and then converted to body fat than it is for dietary fat when in a calorie surplus.

    My understanding had always been excess calories leads to fat gain.
    It seems like this person was saying protein could never be stored as fat.

    Seems more to me that protein is less likely to be stored as fat than fat or carbohydrates, but if you ate a diet of 3000 calories of protein and your TDEE was 2000 you would gain fat, that's what I think anyway.
  • Warchortle
    Warchortle Posts: 2,197 Member
    Protein takes a larger amount of energy to break down and if you are on a low carb diet the protein can be synthesized into glucose for energy... This means someone who maintains at a 2,000 calorie generally balanced diet and shifts most of their calories to protein... over time they'll experience weight loss because they're actually in a caloric deficit.

    You can look up the thermogenic properties of food and biological values, but it still comes down to calories.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    Seems more to me that protein is less likely to be stored as fat than fat or carbohydrates, but if you ate a diet of 3000 calories of protein and your TDEE was 2000 you would gain fat, that's what I think anyway.

    Correct.

    It is the excess calories that lead to fat accumulation.

    In short this kind of question about whether protein can get converted into body fat (theoretically possible but unlikely) is rather missing the point. Ultimately it is about calories ;)
  • carolyn0613
    carolyn0613 Posts: 162 Member
    Here is a study that shows that if you increase protein in diet but keep cals same, loss of body fat was seen

    Title: Changes in body fat percentage during body weight stable conditions of increased daily protein intake vs. control
    Author: Soenen, Stijn ; Westerterp-Plantenga, Margriet S.
    Subjects: Fat mass ; Fat-free mass ; Body weight ; Protein
    Is Part Of: Physiology & Behavior, 2010, Vol.101(5), pp.635-638 [Peer Reviewed Journal]
    Description: Objective The objective of this study was to examine if increased protein intake vs. control influences body fat percentage during stable body weight.
    Design Body composition was assessed before and after a 3-month isoenergetic dietary intervention of 2MJ/d supplements exchanged with 2MJ/d of habitual ad libitum energy intake. The parallel design consisted of protein-rich supplements in the protein group ( n = 12) and an isoenergetic combination of carbohydrate and fat supplements in the control group ( n = 12). Daily protein intake was calculated from a 24 h urinary nitrogen. Body composition was measured by a combination of underwater-weighing technique, deuterium-dilution technique and whole-body dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA), a method that allows for estimation of 4-body compartments (fat and lean; water, bone and rest).
    Results Subjects were weight stable and did not change their habitual physical activity. Daily protein intake increased in the protein group during the intervention compared to baseline with + 11 ± 14 g ( P < 0.05) vs. the control group that did not change their protein intake − 1 ± 15 g. This resulted in a significant difference in protein intake during the intervention of 80 ± 21 g of the protein group vs. 59 ± 11 g of the control group ( P < 0.01). Change in body fat percentage showed a significant group × time interaction of decreased body fat percentage of − 1.0 ± 1.1% of the protein group vs. 0.1 ± 0.6% of the control group ( P < 0.05). The group × time interaction of change in fat mass was significant ( P < 0.05), and change in fat-free mass was a trend ( P = 0.05). Fat-free mass of the protein group had increased with + 0.9 ± 0.6 kg ( P < 0.01), and fat mass had decreased with − 0.6 ± 0.8 kg ( P < 0.05), while the control group had not changed.
    Conclusion During increased daily protein intake vs. control body fat percentage decreased with unchanged physical activity during 3 months of stable body weight.
    Identifier: ISSN: 0031-9384 ; DOI: 10.1016/j.physbeh.2010.09.014
    Language: English
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    on a diet that consists only of protein you will get rabbit starvation and die. The human body can't run on protein alone for long periods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation (it's called rabbit starvation because it's what happens if you try to live on nothing but rabbits or other very lean meat)

    so the point about protein not being able to be stored as fat, even if it was true, it would not mean that a high protein low fat low carb diet would be remotely healthy.
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    There are probably few "peer reviewed papers" around because this is accepted knowledge. A textbook on metabolic biochemistry will show how metabolic pathways are linked and excess macronutrients (whatever they are) are broken down and reassembled and stored as fat if in excess. If you would really like to see some evidence, I can probably find something in an online textbook. I'll have a look...

    Yup.

    590metabolism.gif

    Nice. :smile:
  • carolyn0613
    carolyn0613 Posts: 162 Member
    Title: Dietary protein, metabolism, and body-weight regulation: dose-response effects.(Simple carbohydrates and obesity: Fact, Fiction and Future)(Review)
    Author: Westerterp - Plantenga, M S ; Luscombe - Marsh, N ; Lejeune, M P G M ; Diepvens, K ; Nieuwenhuizen, A ; Engelen, M P K J ; Deutz, N E P ; Azzout - Marniche, D ; Tome, D ; Westerterp, K R
    Is Part Of: International Journal of Obesity, Dec, 2006, Vol.30(S3), p.S16 [Peer Reviewed Journal]
    Description: Body-weight management requires a multifactorial approach. Recent findings suggest that an elevated protein intake seems to play a key role herein, through (i) increased satiety related to increased diet-induced thermogenesis; (ii) its effect on thermogenesis; (iii) body composition; and (iv) decreased energy-efficiency, all of which are related to protein metabolism. Supported by these mechanisms, relatively larger weight loss and subsequent stronger body-weight maintenance have been observed. Increased insulin sensitivity may appear, but it is unclear whether this is due to weight loss or type of diet. The phenomenon of increased satiety is utilized in reduced energy-intake diets, mainly in the ad libitum condition, whereby sustained satiety is achieved with sustained absolute protein intake in grams, despite lower energy intake. Elevated thermogenesis and glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) appear to play a role in high-protein induced satiety. Under conditions of weight maintenance, a high-protein diet shows a reduced energy efficiency related to the body composition of the body weight regained, that is, in favor of fat-free mass. Indeed, during body-weight loss, as well as during weight regain, a high-protein diet preserves or increases fat-free mass and reduces fat mass and improves the metabolic profile. In the short-term this may be supported by a positive protein and a negative fat balance, through increased fat oxidation. As protein intake is studied under various states of energy balance, absolute and relative protein intake needs to be discriminated. In absolute grams, a normal protein diet becomes a relatively high-protein diet in negative energy balance and at weight maintenance. Therefore, 'high protein negative energy balance diets' aim to keep the grams of proteins ingested at the same level as consumed at energy balance, despite lower energy intakes. International Journal of Obesity (2006) 30, S16-S23. doi: 10.1038/sj.ijo.0803487 Keywords: body-weight regulation, body composition, thermogenesis, substrate oxidation, energy efficiency, protein metabolism
    Identifier: ISSN: 0307-0565
    Language: English
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    Title: Dietary protein, metabolism, and body-weight regulation: dose-response effects.(Simple carbohydrates and obesity: Fact, Fiction and Future)(Review)
    Author: Westerterp - Plantenga, M S ; Luscombe - Marsh, N ; Lejeune, M P G M ; Diepvens, K ; Nieuwenhuizen, A ; Engelen, M P K J ; Deutz, N E P ; Azzout - Marniche, D ; Tome, D ; Westerterp, K R
    Is Part Of: International Journal of Obesity, Dec, 2006, Vol.30(S3), p.S16 [Peer Reviewed Journal]
    Description: Body-weight management requires a multifactorial approach. Recent findings suggest that an elevated protein intake seems to play a key role herein, through (i) increased satiety related to increased diet-induced thermogenesis; (ii) its effect on thermogenesis; (iii) body composition; and (iv) decreased energy-efficiency, all of which are related to protein metabolism. Supported by these mechanisms, relatively larger weight loss and subsequent stronger body-weight maintenance have been observed. Increased insulin sensitivity may appear, but it is unclear whether this is due to weight loss or type of diet. The phenomenon of increased satiety is utilized in reduced energy-intake diets, mainly in the ad libitum condition, whereby sustained satiety is achieved with sustained absolute protein intake in grams, despite lower energy intake. Elevated thermogenesis and glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) appear to play a role in high-protein induced satiety. Under conditions of weight maintenance, a high-protein diet shows a reduced energy efficiency related to the body composition of the body weight regained, that is, in favor of fat-free mass. Indeed, during body-weight loss, as well as during weight regain, a high-protein diet preserves or increases fat-free mass and reduces fat mass and improves the metabolic profile. In the short-term this may be supported by a positive protein and a negative fat balance, through increased fat oxidation. As protein intake is studied under various states of energy balance, absolute and relative protein intake needs to be discriminated. In absolute grams, a normal protein diet becomes a relatively high-protein diet in negative energy balance and at weight maintenance. Therefore, 'high protein negative energy balance diets' aim to keep the grams of proteins ingested at the same level as consumed at energy balance, despite lower energy intakes. International Journal of Obesity (2006) 30, S16-S23. doi: 10.1038/sj.ijo.0803487 Keywords: body-weight regulation, body composition, thermogenesis, substrate oxidation, energy efficiency, protein metabolism
    Identifier: ISSN: 0307-0565
    Language: English
    The OP asked if excess protein can be stored as fat and it is certainly well established that it can. The articles you have posted are about something different altogether.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html


    OP: I know you're looking for research but please read the above.
  • carolyn0613
    carolyn0613 Posts: 162 Member
    OP, maybe the confusion arises because excess protein can't be stored as protein in the body. Therefore it is broken down to glucose and used by the body for energy or storage in that form.

    Sorry if the abstracts I included confused people. I did think it interesting that the protein rich diet could help change body composition in favour of lower body fat
  • acidosaur
    acidosaur Posts: 295 Member
    Seems more to me that protein is less likely to be stored as fat than fat or carbohydrates, but if you ate a diet of 3000 calories of protein and your TDEE was 2000 you would gain fat, that's what I think anyway.

    Correct.

    It is the excess calories that lead to fat accumulation.

    In short this kind of question about whether protein can get converted into body fat (theoretically possible but unlikely) is rather missing the point. Ultimately it is about calories ;)

    This is not the case, as there is an upper limit on the amount of calories of protein that can be used by the body daily. Something like 600 calories. Google rabbit starvation.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    Seems more to me that protein is less likely to be stored as fat than fat or carbohydrates, but if you ate a diet of 3000 calories of protein and your TDEE was 2000 you would gain fat, that's what I think anyway.

    Correct.

    It is the excess calories that lead to fat accumulation.

    In short this kind of question about whether protein can get converted into body fat (theoretically possible but unlikely) is rather missing the point. Ultimately it is about calories ;)

    This is not the case, as there is an upper limit on the amount of calories of protein that can be used by the body daily. Something like 600 calories. Google rabbit starvation.

    I don't really get your point. Could you clarify it please?

    How does rabbit starvation make what I have stated "untrue"?
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
    It can, it's just harder and less efficient to store as fat. Fats take almost no energy to store as body fat, carbs require a little bit more energy, and protein takes a lot more energy. It's a very inefficient macro. Hell, the TEF of protein is 25%.
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    I don't really agree with some of the claims in this article. How can he be certain that the carbon skeleton from an amino acid or a carbohydrate for that matter is unlikely to be used for lipogenesis? A substrate is a substrate no matter it's origin.

    Curious now....I must go and do some reading...
  • servilia
    servilia Posts: 3,452 Member
    Bump
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Seems more to me that protein is less likely to be stored as fat than fat or carbohydrates, but if you ate a diet of 3000 calories of protein and your TDEE was 2000 you would gain fat, that's what I think anyway.

    Correct.

    It is the excess calories that lead to fat accumulation.

    In short this kind of question about whether protein can get converted into body fat (theoretically possible but unlikely) is rather missing the point. Ultimately it is about calories ;)

    This is not the case, as there is an upper limit on the amount of calories of protein that can be used by the body daily. Something like 600 calories. Google rabbit starvation.
    And if they're not used, guess what happens to them.
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
    There are probably few "peer reviewed papers" around because this is accepted knowledge. A textbook on metabolic biochemistry will show how metabolic pathways are linked and excess macronutrients (whatever they are) are broken down and reassembled and stored as fat if in excess. If you would really like to see some evidence, I can probably find something in an online textbook. I'll have a look...

    Yup.

    590metabolism.gif

    yup yup. ;D
  • iamkass
    iamkass Posts: 122 Member
    If you can find a source of protein that is zero calories and has 0 grams of every other macronutrient... let me know.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    wow. according to this link neither protein nor carbs can be converted to fat. since we've heard that fat doesn't necessarily turn into fat i guess nothing turns to fat. nothing but magic.

    i'm gonna have to pass on that one
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    wow. according to this link neither protein nor carbs can be converted to fat. since we've heard that fat doesn't necessarily turn into fat i guess nothing turns to fat. nothing but magic.

    i'm gonna have to pass on that one

    He acknowledges that carbs can convert to fat, it's just under very limited circumstances.

    More detail about it here:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html
  • Mother_Superior
    Mother_Superior Posts: 1,624 Member
    Fat is distilled from the wishes of fast predators. Oh and zombies.
    tumblr_mmjf3avZQr1s10m6fo1_400.gif
  • K_Serz
    K_Serz Posts: 1,299 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    wow. according to this link neither protein nor carbs can be converted to fat. since we've heard that fat doesn't necessarily turn into fat i guess nothing turns to fat. nothing but magic.

    i'm gonna have to pass on that one

    So I can go back to drinking 4 gallons of high fructose corn syrup packed soda a day and I have nothing to worry about?

    5apb13.jpg

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