21 day 5000 calorie challenge: debunking the calorie myth?

carrington2005

A trainer, Sam Fellham, is consuming 5000 calories every day for 21 days to see what happens, and to prove or disprove the calorie in-calorie out theory. According to traditional weight loss dogma, this should result in a gain of around 6kg. He is eating clean (vegies, protein and fat). He is up to day 6 and I am finding it very interesting ... each day he documents his weight and measurements.
http://live.smashthefat.com/the-21-day-5000-calorie-challenge/

http://live.smashthefat.com/5000-calorie-challenge-day-6/

If you need some persuading to believe that it is not the number of calories that matter, but the quality of calories, or if you have been getting no results with calorie restriction and calorie deficits, check it out:

neanderthin

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

ramonafrincu

I don't know about that trainer but in the past I lost 15 kg by eating whatever, just small portions...Maybe he is a special snowflake, or maybe I am....

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mhcoss

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

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ironanimal

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

Didn't work for me either.

rchille

He's working off the conventional wisdom that 1 lbs is equal to 3500 cals.
That is, if you short yourself 3500 cals over a span of time, then you lose a 1 lbs.
So if I naturally burn 14,000 cals a week (7x2000 cal/day) but only take in about 10,500, then I should lose a pound that week.

I did this about 5 years back over the course of about 6 months to lose about 70 lbs. It was brutal, and I lost a ton of muscle mass ( I wasn't exercising in the process).

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ramonafrincu

:drinker:

zornig

Lol. Ok. I'm just saying that's what they say. Every Paleo/primal website and book says you don't have to count cals.

In case you're not aware, there are more site like MFP popping up. With restaurants getting pressure to add cals to their menus and food labeling under more scrutiny, I think there is an entire culture of people that is growing against counting calories.

I'm neither for or against. I'm agnostic. I was simply try to answer a question.

You can say whatever you want in a book--doesn't make it true. The fact that there are more sites like MFP popping up, and that restaurants are making nutritional information available, actually suggests that the culture of calorie counting is getting *stronger*, not weaker.

I'm not saying that counting calories necessarily causes me to lose weight. But I know that when I am counting calories, I am far more conscientious about what I eat and how much, and that makes it far more likely that I will lose weight. If something like paleo works for you, great. Don't count your calories in that case. But I know exactly what happens to me when I stop counting my calories (no matter how clean I eat).

darrensurrey

Edit: just found his other page. Answered my question.

yarwell

Should be interesting. Similar things have been done before, for example http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48/2/240.full.pdf+html

He's eating low carb too.

0OneTwo3

Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

Ambitious to put it nicely.

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CyberEd312

I will put my 4 years of experience and 312 lbs. lost by using the so called myth of calories in vs. calories out vs. this guys 21 day challenge.... but more power to him..... :drinker:

BeachIron

The guy needs to gain some weight anyway so it will probably do him some good. As for my body, I'll stick with science.

obeseandsassy

not sure what the point of any of this is. some people would gain weight doing this whether they ate clean or not. Some people wouldn't. People's bodies are different.

phatguerilla

The fact that it is a 21 day challenge makes me a bit suspicious tbh, since he is doing low carb its not impossible that he will lose water weight to begin with and only show a small gain if even by the end of the 21 days, but if he followed the plan for 60-90 days and his body adopted to his new diet I can't see how he could lose or maintain weight without increasing activity. Also does this guy give a run down of his regular schedule, diet, and activity levels? It might be that he is an active person and already eats close to 5000 calories anyways, in which case all he would prove is that rda's don't fit everyone which isn't really a surprise.

taunto

I think people often forget the vegan fatties out there.



They're out there.

tonytoo

I've kept a weekly spreadsheet for the past 10 weeks showing my current TDEE, calories in and calories out and therefore the calorie deficit .

Using 3500 calories as a pound I've lost within 1/4 pound of exactly what the spreadsheet estimates I should have.

aelitaangels

So if you're saying eating a large amount of calories in healthy clean food won't make you put on weight, then how does healthy weight gain happen? You know for people who are underweight and want to put on some flesh in a healthy way?

Iron_Feline

Just asked him if he was eating at this ratio of macros before the challenge - it is a good point that if he wasn't then he should drop some water weigh which will alter the results.

Also 21 days isn't long enough - I would have said a minimum of 6 weeks as that is how long it take the body (generally) to adjust to a change in diet.

mhcoss

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.

People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit or could you achieve it by switching to healthy food. for some people maybe, but for any meaningful results consistency is key and counting is what allows you to achieve that consistency.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

Ambitious to put it nicely.

Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

yarwell

not sure what the point of any of this is. some people would gain weight doing this whether they ate clean or not. Some people wouldn't. People's bodies are different.

that is kind of the point, if the "calorie is a calorie" theory is as universally applicable as many would have us believe then everyone would gain weight.

The experiment won't collect enough data to understand the outcome I suspect, for example if his non-exercise activity level goes up significantly then the weight gain will be correspondingly less. Unless he's in a metabolic chamber or using doubly labelled water we'll never know.

taunto

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.

People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit or could you achieve it by switching to healthy food. for some people maybe, but for any meaningful results consistency is key and counting is what allows you to achieve that consistency.

So what you're saying is... that I can have my cake and eat it too?

What about steak? And fries? And ice cream.

This is too good to be true. Wheres the diet pills and me starving?

BeachIron

not sure what the point of any of this is. some people would gain weight doing this whether they ate clean or not. Some people wouldn't. People's bodies are different.

that is kind of the point, if the "calorie is a calorie" theory is as universally applicable as many would have us believe then everyone would gain weight.

The experiment won't collect enough data to understand the outcome I suspect, for example if his non-exercise activity level goes up significantly then the weight gain will be correspondingly less. Unless he's in a metabolic chamber or using doubly labelled water we'll never know.

There are bodybuilders that cut on 5,000 calories a day. For the most part, it depends on activity levels, muscle mass, sex, and age.

0OneTwo3

Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

Ambitious to put it nicely.

Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

OK, so he proves that he can burn 5000kcal a day. good for him.

But as I understand he is trying to disprove the "Calorie Myth" and the Calories in = Calories Out "Theory". See the original Post.

These are no myths or theories its a law of physics.

His experiment is therefor not based in Science which makes it objectively worthless.

Iron_Feline

Just asked him if he was eating at this ratio of macros before the challenge - it is a good point that if he wasn't then he should drop some water weigh which will alter the results.

Also 21 days isn't long enough - I would have said a minimum of 6 weeks as that is how long it take the body (generally) to adjust to a change in diet.

I was right - his regular macros were 30 carbs 40 fat 30 protein - so he has actually changed more than one variable. This could well account for the initial weight loss.

Plus weight gain and loss is not linear.

This is a vanity experiment with no real basis in science.