21 day 5000 calorie challenge: debunking the calorie myth?
Replies
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A trainer, Sam Fellham, is consuming 5000 calories every day for 21 days to see what happens, and to prove or disprove the calorie in-calorie out theory. According to traditional weight loss dogma, this should result in a gain of around 6kg. He is eating clean (vegies, protein and fat). He is up to day 6 and I am finding it very interesting ... each day he documents his weight and measurements.
http://live.smashthefat.com/the-21-day-5000-calorie-challenge/
http://live.smashthefat.com/5000-calorie-challenge-day-6/
If you need some persuading to believe that it is not the number of calories that matter, but the quality of calories, or if you have been getting no results with calorie restriction and calorie deficits, check it out:
Very interesting. Thanks for posting!0 -
I've struggled to lose weight for some time. I'm in the gym doing weight training and cardio 5 days a week. I'm 48 so my metabolism is not what is used to be. A co-worker who is training to be in a fitness competition mentioned MFP and told me to give it a try. Over the past week I cut out processed food, starches and alcohol in addition to using MFP to watch my overall carbs, sugar and calories. I take in about 1700 calories a day and only eat fresh food and a protein shake after working out. By no means am I starving. In one week I went from 181 to 177 and did not increase my exercise. The food prep takes a lot of planning but it seems to be working.0
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How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?
There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.
There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.
Thanks for explaining this
I hadn't heard it before, or maybe I hadn't really listened...but I find this!!
I can stay under my cal but have bad food and I wont lose, over cal but healthy and I'll still see a loss on the same amount of exercise
x0 -
How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?
There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.
There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.
funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.
Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.
no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.
People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit
^ All of that.0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:0 -
Yes, you have to count calories to lose weight. I know this because all of the successful people on this site have done so without becoming psychotic about their food intake, they've just managed it at a reasonable deficit and worked on building strength and physical endurance. If you know what you're taking in, you know what you should be putting out. Thermodynamics, read about it.0
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Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
People are never wrong in the interwebs0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
win.
He'll still get a spot on "Good Morning America" or "The Today Show".0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
win.
He'll still get a spot on "Good Morning America" or "The Today Show".
Very true.0 -
Very interesting I notice that he is eating a lot of coconut oil and also walnuts both of these foods increase metabolism so could in theory prevent him form gaining weight. If he has a high metabolism he may well be able to eat 5000cals a day and not put on weight. Where as me who has been blessed with a slow metabolism would get fat just looking at his menu. a case in point is this lady and she doesn't eat clean.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/4660129/Ive-had-five-kids-eat-5000-calories-of-junk-food-a-day-and-size-6.html0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
And lots of people will probably just see his results and believe them.
Biased ''experiment'0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
And lots of people will probably just see his results and believe them.
Biased ''experiment'
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Funny since intake/out take of calories is science, and taught in college health...Darn scientist with all there facts and stuff....Kind of like the Twinkies experiment...he lost weight counting calories eating Twinkies only.0
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He should stay in bed during his challenge to control for calories burned.0
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Funny since intake/out take of calories is science, and taught in college health...Darn scientist with all there facts and stuff....Kind of like the Twinkies experiment...he lost weight counting calories eating Twinkies only.
gtfo with your 'facts'. We don't want that here. Ain't nobody got time fa that.0 -
This is not a fair test. His body is use to not putting on fat. It is exactly the same as someone very heavy starting to diet. There is usually little to no loss the first 2-3 weeks then it falls off. If you looked purely at math that heavy person should lose instantly as technically their calorie deficiency says so. In fact that is the biggest reason people quit diets, no results in the first 2 weeks. His experiment won't work. He would need to do it longer then 21 days. In fact i find it highly suspect that he uses 21 days considering this is a standard amount of time for the body to readjust. I think it is sad that a trainer who obviously knows this would set out to confuse people even more.0
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Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
And lots of people will probably just see his results and believe them.
Biased ''experiment'
Yep. Unfortunate too, because if done properly, it would be interesting and informative. But, we can't have that, everyone's got an agenda. :sad:0 -
Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"
I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.
He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:
And lots of people will probably just see his results and believe them.
Biased ''experiment'
:drinker:0 -
I find it funny that he is following the 21 day sugar detox diet, which doesn't limit calories either. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually loses weight due to the shock on his system.0
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Brb breaking thermodynamics.0
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How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?
There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.
There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.
They don't count calories, however you are still supposed to pay attention to portion sizes, and they do say its a self limiting diet. So you are controlling calories, just not outright count them. It's not a matter of eating however much you want.
It's also not a "low carb" diet, you can have carbs just not from grains. It does tend to be lower carb.0 -
Just asked him if he was eating at this ratio of macros before the challenge - it is a good point that if he wasn't then he should drop some water weigh which will alter the results.
Also 21 days isn't long enough - I would have said a minimum of 6 weeks as that is how long it take the body (generally) to adjust to a change in diet.
I was right - his regular macros were 30 carbs 40 fat 30 protein - so he has actually changed more than one variable. This could well account for the initial weight loss.
Plus weight gain and loss is not linear.
This is a vanity experiment with no real basis in science.
:drinker:0 -
I think people often forget the vegan fatties out there.
They're out there.
Because they're eating processed food. Have you seen how many calories are in a piece of tofu meat? Not to mention all the processing it undergoes. There is all types of unhealthy junk available that's vegan approved - candy included. Just because someone is vegan doesn't mean they're eating healthy or counting their calories.0 -
I think people often forget the vegan fatties out there.
They're out there.
Because they're eating processed food. Have you seen how many calories are in a piece of tofu meat? Not to mention all the processing it undergoes. There is all types of unhealthy junk available that's vegan approved - candy included. Just because someone is vegan doesn't mean they're eating healthy or counting their calories.
All foods are processed foods.0 -
Well the calories in calories out model IS a myth - that's just science. the body pursues homeostasis regardless of the number of calories in and the number out. Carbohydrates will tend to add to adipose tissue (i.e. grow fat). so if you eat a lot of carbohydrates you can expect to gain fat. however if your calories are high protein and high fat, unless you are rigourously exercising muscle, the body has no recognized need to add lean muscle mass (i.e. pounds of muscle) unless it is getting the signals (through heavy exercise) of that requirment. so it will pursue 'homeostasis' and those additional 'good calories' will be converted to urea and excreted. that's the chemistry and that's been proven many times. (see the 'good calories bad calories pdf online).
so if this guys is a trainer, he may gain weight but it will likely be muscle mass. i'm assuming he's not consuming excess carbohydrates.
one of the challeenges with MFP is it does tend to support the calories in calories out mythology. but for most people, because of the caloric density of high carbohydrate foods, when you restrict calories but balance your nutrition you will tend to restrict carbohydrates automatically. I've been on WW and Jenny and if you analyze the diet plan, you will find you're restricting your carbs to under 100 grams per day anyway. so most successful diets recognize the importance of carbohydrate restriction whether they tell you that or not.0 -
How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?
There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.
There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.
If you're eating primal to lose weight and following Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint, then you count carbs. So, you're still counting/tracking something.0 -
Well the calories in calories out model IS a myth - that's just science. the body pursues homeostasis regardless of the number of calories in and the number out. Carbohydrates will tend to add to adipose tissue (i.e. grow fat). so if you eat a lot of carbohydrates you can expect to gain fat. however if your calories are high protein and high fat, unless you are rigourously exercising muscle, the body has no recognized need to add lean muscle mass (i.e. pounds of muscle) unless it is getting the signals (through heavy exercise) of that requirment. so it will pursue 'homeostasis' and those additional 'good calories' will be converted to urea and excreted. that's the chemistry and that's been proven many times. (see the 'good calories bad calories pdf online).
so if this guys is a trainer, he may gain weight but it will likely be muscle mass. i'm assuming he's not consuming excess carbohydrates.
one of the challeenges with MFP is it does tend to support the calories in calories out mythology. but for most people, because of the caloric density of high carbohydrate foods, when you restrict calories but balance your nutrition you will tend to restrict carbohydrates automatically. I've been on WW and Jenny and if you analyze the diet plan, you will find you're restricting your carbs to under 100 grams per day anyway. so most successful diets recognize the importance of carbohydrate restriction whether they tell you that or not.
:laugh:
I don't even know where to start. So I don't think I'll bother.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html0 -
That's why I mentioned Paleo. I think that's what he's doing.
Not really, I haven't heard him say "paleo" yet and the word appears 4 times on his site in links to other resources.0 -
Well the calories in calories out model IS a myth - that's just science. the body pursues homeostasis regardless of the number of calories in and the number out. Carbohydrates will tend to add to adipose tissue (i.e. grow fat). so if you eat a lot of carbohydrates you can expect to gain fat. however if your calories are high protein and high fat, unless you are rigourously exercising muscle, the body has no recognized need to add lean muscle mass (i.e. pounds of muscle) unless it is getting the signals (through heavy exercise) of that requirment. so it will pursue 'homeostasis' and those additional 'good calories' will be converted to urea and excreted. that's the chemistry and that's been proven many times. (see the 'good calories bad calories pdf online).
so if this guys is a trainer, he may gain weight but it will likely be muscle mass. i'm assuming he's not consuming excess carbohydrates.
one of the challeenges with MFP is it does tend to support the calories in calories out mythology. but for most people, because of the caloric density of high carbohydrate foods, when you restrict calories but balance your nutrition you will tend to restrict carbohydrates automatically. I've been on WW and Jenny and if you analyze the diet plan, you will find you're restricting your carbs to under 100 grams per day anyway. so most successful diets recognize the importance of carbohydrate restriction whether they tell you that or not.
did you just called WW and Jenny successful diet plan...?0
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