21 day 5000 calorie challenge: debunking the calorie myth?

tonytoo

I've kept a weekly spreadsheet for the past 10 weeks showing my current TDEE, calories in and calories out and therefore the calorie deficit .

Using 3500 calories as a pound I've lost within 1/4 pound of exactly what the spreadsheet estimates I should have.

aelitaangels

So if you're saying eating a large amount of calories in healthy clean food won't make you put on weight, then how does healthy weight gain happen? You know for people who are underweight and want to put on some flesh in a healthy way?

Iron_Feline

Just asked him if he was eating at this ratio of macros before the challenge - it is a good point that if he wasn't then he should drop some water weigh which will alter the results.

Also 21 days isn't long enough - I would have said a minimum of 6 weeks as that is how long it take the body (generally) to adjust to a change in diet.

mhcoss

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.

People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit or could you achieve it by switching to healthy food. for some people maybe, but for any meaningful results consistency is key and counting is what allows you to achieve that consistency.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

Ambitious to put it nicely.

Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

yarwell

not sure what the point of any of this is. some people would gain weight doing this whether they ate clean or not. Some people wouldn't. People's bodies are different.

that is kind of the point, if the "calorie is a calorie" theory is as universally applicable as many would have us believe then everyone would gain weight.

The experiment won't collect enough data to understand the outcome I suspect, for example if his non-exercise activity level goes up significantly then the weight gain will be correspondingly less. Unless he's in a metabolic chamber or using doubly labelled water we'll never know.

taunto

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.

People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit or could you achieve it by switching to healthy food. for some people maybe, but for any meaningful results consistency is key and counting is what allows you to achieve that consistency.

So what you're saying is... that I can have my cake and eat it too?

What about steak? And fries? And ice cream.

This is too good to be true. Wheres the diet pills and me starving?

BeachIron

not sure what the point of any of this is. some people would gain weight doing this whether they ate clean or not. Some people wouldn't. People's bodies are different.

that is kind of the point, if the "calorie is a calorie" theory is as universally applicable as many would have us believe then everyone would gain weight.

The experiment won't collect enough data to understand the outcome I suspect, for example if his non-exercise activity level goes up significantly then the weight gain will be correspondingly less. Unless he's in a metabolic chamber or using doubly labelled water we'll never know.

There are bodybuilders that cut on 5,000 calories a day. For the most part, it depends on activity levels, muscle mass, sex, and age.

0OneTwo3

Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

Ambitious to put it nicely.

Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

OK, so he proves that he can burn 5000kcal a day. good for him.

But as I understand he is trying to disprove the "Calorie Myth" and the Calories in = Calories Out "Theory". See the original Post.

These are no myths or theories its a law of physics.

His experiment is therefor not based in Science which makes it objectively worthless.

Iron_Feline

Just asked him if he was eating at this ratio of macros before the challenge - it is a good point that if he wasn't then he should drop some water weigh which will alter the results.

Also 21 days isn't long enough - I would have said a minimum of 6 weeks as that is how long it take the body (generally) to adjust to a change in diet.

I was right - his regular macros were 30 carbs 40 fat 30 protein - so he has actually changed more than one variable. This could well account for the initial weight loss.

Plus weight gain and loss is not linear.

This is a vanity experiment with no real basis in science.

tootoop224

A trainer, Sam Fellham, is consuming 5000 calories every day for 21 days to see what happens, and to prove or disprove the calorie in-calorie out theory. According to traditional weight loss dogma, this should result in a gain of around 6kg. He is eating clean (vegies, protein and fat). He is up to day 6 and I am finding it very interesting ... each day he documents his weight and measurements.
http://live.smashthefat.com/the-21-day-5000-calorie-challenge/

http://live.smashthefat.com/5000-calorie-challenge-day-6/

If you need some persuading to believe that it is not the number of calories that matter, but the quality of calories, or if you have been getting no results with calorie restriction and calorie deficits, check it out:

Very interesting. Thanks for posting!

cheiderman

I've struggled to lose weight for some time. I'm in the gym doing weight training and cardio 5 days a week. I'm 48 so my metabolism is not what is used to be. A co-worker who is training to be in a fitness competition mentioned MFP and told me to give it a try. Over the past week I cut out processed food, starches and alcohol in addition to using MFP to watch my overall carbs, sugar and calories. I take in about 1700 calories a day and only eat fresh food and a protein shake after working out. By no means am I starving. In one week I went from 181 to 177 and did not increase my exercise. The food prep takes a lot of planning but it seems to be working.

pixtotts

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

Thanks for explaining this
I hadn't heard it before, or maybe I hadn't really listened...but I find this!!
I can stay under my cal but have bad food and I wont lose, over cal but healthy and I'll still see a loss on the same amount of exercise
x

SideSteel

How would eating food debunk the calorie myth, and what is the calorie myth again?

There are a lot of people that do not believe in cals in/out. They feel that it's the quality of the food that matters. So, if you were eating very clean, whatever that means, I guess no junk, no soda, pop tarts, ice cream, cheeseburgers, etc. just clean food. If you eat that way, you can consume 5000 cals a day without gaining.

There are entire groups so passionate about this, and are successful too. As an example, you don't need to count calories eating Paleo/primal. You just don't. If you stick with it.

funny because i was eating paleo primal and not losing weight until I started counting calories.

Special snowflake, you're so beautiful.

no need to hate man. just stating it how it is.

People who think you don't have to maintain a caloric deficit to lose weight don't have their head planted in reality. Now the question is do you have to count calories to maintain that deficit

^ All of that.

Iron_Feline

Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"

I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.

He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:

auroranflash

Yes, you have to count calories to lose weight. I know this because all of the successful people on this site have done so without becoming psychotic about their food intake, they've just managed it at a reasonable deficit and worked on building strength and physical endurance. If you know what you're taking in, you know what you should be putting out. Thermodynamics, read about it.

taunto

Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"

I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.

He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:

People are never wrong in the interwebs

auroranflash

Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"

I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.

He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:

win.

He'll still get a spot on "Good Morning America" or "The Today Show".

Iron_Feline

Well based on my tweet conversation with him he doesn't understand a scientific experiment at all - He's changed more than one variable and wants to be able to count water weight loss as a win in the calorie is a calorie "experiment"

I've lost weight - but should have put on fat therefore I'm right, even though the weight loss is likely water. Sigh.

He's set it up to prove he will be right. This is everything that is wrong with internet crusaders :noway:

win.

He'll still get a spot on "Good Morning America" or "The Today Show".

Very true.

Dynamis600

Very interesting I notice that he is eating a lot of coconut oil and also walnuts both of these foods increase metabolism so could in theory prevent him form gaining weight. If he has a high metabolism he may well be able to eat 5000cals a day and not put on weight. Where as me who has been blessed with a slow metabolism would get fat just looking at his menu. a case in point is this lady and she doesn't eat clean.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/4660129/Ive-had-five-kids-eat-5000-calories-of-junk-food-a-day-and-size-6.html