Hunter-gatherers vs Westerners

One other interesting thing is that rats don't appear to respond to leptin the same way humans do, so that makes metabolic comparison somewhat questionable (I am not knocking rat research at all, but in this case there are some distinct differences).

OTOH genetically suppressing the insulin response in rats results in a doubled lifespan, which is pretty cool.

“China Study” by Campbell represents, as mentioned, his conclusions about this data – conclusions which have been fiercely debated, by the way. He uses hand selected, cherry picked data from the study to support his rabid pro-vegan position and leaves out everything that contradicts it.

(Campbell is associated with Physicians for Responsible Medicine, a vegan animal rights group masquerading as a responsible medical organization.)

At one point, defending his “anti-animal protein” position, Campbell quoted a study done at Harvard University which, he said, had reached the exact same conclusion that he, Campbell, had reached. Even Harvard researchers agreed with him, was the implication.
A man sitting at the other end of the dais got up and introduced himself. “Excuse me, Dr. Campbell”, said the man.”I happened to be the lead researcher on that study you mentioned. And we made no such conclusions” It was David Ludwig, MD, of Harvard University.

What I find interesting about the “China Study” is that it also compltely contradicts everything that my Chinese friends tell me about what they eat “back home”. Fish, eggs, chickens, and pork, PORK! They love all of these things, they’d love more beef too when they can afford it. China is one of the least vegetarian countries on Earth.

I was a Ph.D. Research scholar to China as part of India-China Cultural Exchange program. The day I landed in Xiamen University, I couldn't find anything to eat for a vegetarian.I was a Ph.D. Research scholar to China as part of India-China Cultural Exchange program. The day I landed in Xiamen University, I couldn't find anything to eat for a vegetarian.

Freerange are we getting vegetarianism confused with vegan-ism? A lot of vegetarians will eat fish and eggs.

My first reaction was that the hunters and gatherers have become more efficient at burning calories because I have to work so much harder now to burn the same amount of calories as I did when I first started losing weight.

The issue highlighted in the study is that they are thinner and lighter than you, so they burn less calories on account of that - even accounting for greater activity levels.

Doubly labelled water and respiratory gas analysis was used to determine energy consumption and expenditure, they also had GPS devices fitted and were measured for energy walking on a test track. It's all in the paper.

The "paleo diet" is mentioned by Dr John Briffa's blog http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/07/27/hunter-gatherers-most-likely-to-be-leaner-than-us-due-to-differences-in-diet-not-activity/ where he points to papers that find the "Paleo diet" to be more satiating resulting in lower ad lib energy intake of ~1400 vs 1800 cals/day compared to a "Mediterranean" style diet.

"Paleo diet" - http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222/fulltext.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009971 includes macro & micro nutrient profiles.

I use "Paleo diet" in quotes to indicate what is currently eaten by those following such a diet, without any reference to ancient history ;-) There's a lot less carbs in the Paleo vs Mediterranean diet comparison.

Why do you defend a diet that has never been shown to have anything going for it?

You still haven't posted those links...

What links? Surely you are not asking me to repost links to the China Study, the German Study, the Framingham Study or any of the dozens of others that we have argued about in the past? If you are asking me to do that, why?

In case you are intersted, however, I will give you this link:

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/slideshows/top-rated-diets-overall

I am not at all defending this "study," or its conclusions, or for that matter anything else it says. The US News College Report is about as accurate and scientific as this, but I did find it interesting that of all the diets mentioned (of which I am unaware of most) the Vegetarian diet, the Vegan diet, the Ornish diet , and virtually all of the veggie diets finished on top in just about every category, while the Paleo diet finished last. Any comments?

but I am sure these people have significant differences in genome from the wider population.

You are sure? Well scientific man, where is you scientific study to back that up? LOL

This actually makes sense. That tribe probably only reproduce, so to speak, with their own tribe. That may not ALWAYS be the case, but I would bet they keep within their tribe.

True but it doesn't mean they are genetically different than us.

The environment can determine which genes are experessed. (If interested, look up Epigenetics. ) After many years and mutations, certain phenotypes which have survivability characteristics become dominant and recessive non-valuable characteristics disappear. The Inuits and Lapplanders have a superhuman ability to eat fat and meat and not get cancer or heart disease. They are different from other populations. Additionally the Trobriand Islanders mentioned previously probably also evolved similarly.

While I completely agree with the environment adding to the genes that are expressed, I'm not an Inuit or Lapplander, or Chinese, soooooo... I try to eat what I've adapted to and feel best with. Lots of dairy. I really don't care what others eat as they are not me, and do not share what I have evolved from.

To quote Moalem, "there is mounting evidence that where our ancestors came from, how they adapted to manage their environment, and where we live today all combine to have a significant impact on our health."

While I completely agree with the environment adding to the genes that are expressed, I'm not an Inuit or Lapplander, or Chinese, soooooo... I try to eat what I've adapted to and feel best with. Lots of dairy. I really don't care what others eat as they are not me, and do not share what I have evolved from.

To quote Moalem, "there is mounting evidence that where our ancestors came from, how they adapted to manage their environment, and where we live today all combine to have a significant impact on our health."

Love this...

n=1 baby.

Wrong. Studies show that HIGH PROTEIN diets are correlated with weight loss. When caloric and protein intake are controlled for, there is no difference between high carb and low carb.

Low carb is pointless for most people on this site. If you like it, then great, go for it, but don't delude yourself and mislead others.

I'm glad you have it all figured out -- makes everything much easier when you know all the answers and everything fits neatly into your world view. But the researchers conducting the studies think additional research is warranted and while a low carb approach might not be required for everyone, for a whole lot of people having control of their appetite is a pretty big deal -- duluded and mislead though they might be.

Conclusions. The rapid absorption of glucose after consumption of high-GI meals induces a sequence of hormonal and metabolic changes that promote excessive food intake in obese subjects. Additional studies are needed to examine the relationship between dietary GI and long-term body weight regulation. glycemic index, obesity, dietary carbohydrate, diets, insulin.

It's not an issue with appetite, or leptin supplementation would be effective or weight loss (it's not). It's an issue with poor eating habits and lack of self-control. I eat 200ish g of sugar on workout days pretty regularly, and would be willing to bet that if we compare our relative health, body composition, strength, and endurance that I would come out ahead on all counts (I would be happy to be proven wrong here, but I have only ever met a handful of low carbers in better shape than myself, while the number of people who regularly eat 500-2000g of carb in a day who are in better shape is fairly large). If insulin is the devil, you need to avoid meat as well, since e. g. fatty cuts of beef produce as much of an insulin response as grains. Even Lyle McDonald (who literally wrote the book on ketogenic diets) isn't sold on them any more.

Lyle likes low carb diets for their better appetite suppression but he will say weight loss is all about a calorie deficit and that LC offers no magical metabolic advantage.

I don't think LC provides a metabolic advantage either in my humble opinion, sadly. If only it were that simple.

You do talk like someone who hasn't struggled to lose a lot of weight. Perhaps I am wrong and you're a 100+ lb loser or something, but I find the "self control" line often comes from those who have lost 10-20 pounds. Although at it's most basic it boils down to that, of course. If us fat b@stards had awesome self control we'd all do 1200 calorie diets (perhaps Lyle's fat burning diet) and lose the weight quickly and we'd all have six pack pictures in our profile. However, I suspect there is a lot more going on in relation to how we got fat to begin with. I have three siblings, they are all thin, my mother swears blind she didn't feed me any differently. Of course, we don't know that, she doesn't have food logs from when I was growing up, but I struggle to believe she overfed just me. I was an active child, a competitive swimmer, soccer player etc. I led an active outdoor lifestyle, yet I always struggled with weight. I saw a dietician in elementary school and was on diets when most kids were eating donuts for lunch. On the flip side you can argue I ate more, I HAD to have eaten more, but WHY did I eat more. Did I just have less self control than other kids? That's crazy, kids don't think like that. In fact, I was probably the only kid at the party NOT eating something because it was too high in calories.

I also don't have poor eating habits, my sister, 10 years my senior is a dietician, there were no ding dongs, twinkies, potato chips etc. in our house, my diet was tightly controlled. I would lose weight, but regain it easily. WHY would my body drive me to do that? My conscious mind certainly didn't, I hated being fat!

My gut feel is there is far more to this equation than we like to believe. For sure, weight loss for me right now means a calorie deficit, I know, I've done it, I've experimented carefully on myself, what works is a calorie deficit. I still have the outstanding question of WHY I am this way. I agree with SilverKittyKat that epigenetics could be one explanation, I've heard others.