UK Programme on fasting

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  • barmum
    barmum Posts: 73
    I saw this and after doing some reading up was going to give it a try because I have to lose quite a lot of weight which I've only ever managed to do in the past by getting down to unhealthy levels of low calorie intake. Hoping this might be a more sustainable approach :/
  • Brentm77
    Brentm77 Posts: 24 Member
    I have lost 45 pounds since February with a combination of fasting and low-carb diet. I actually fast 5-6 days a week. This means that on the fasting days, I only eat dinner and sometimes a light snack before bed. It sounds terrible, but for me it is so much easier than the six small meals advice. Instead of being hungry all day as I am when I try to eat six small meals, I start to get a little hungry at about 4:00 pm. Dinner is just around the corner, so it is easy to wait and eat at dinner time. I also get the benefit of not getting the sleepy afternoon feeling.

    I don't count any calories at night. But again, I eat less than 20 carbs a day. If I wasn't doing low-carb, I would count calories, which would still be great because you could eat a huge dinner and not feel guilty every night.

    I have to question the advice of several small meals and snacking. Am I the only one who always counts down the minutes until the next snack/meal, to only be left unsatisfied by the small amount of food?

    I would recommend trying it. It really isn't as hard as it sounds.
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    Krista Varady who was in the programe was involved in http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138.long a study of alternate day fasting.

    That paper reported that " Fat mass decreased (P < 0.01) by 5.4 ± 0.8 kg after 8 wk of diet, whereas changes in fat-free mass were not significant (−0.1 ± 0.1 kg). "

    The diet intervention used was "All subjects consumed 25% of their baseline energy needs on the “fast” day (24 h) and then consumed food ad libitum on each alternate “feed” day (24 h)." So the "fast" is actually a 75% calorie reduction.

    On the "fast" days they ate 25-30g protein only, 450 calories. http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138/T1.expansion.html

    On his Twitter feed the presenter says that exercise isn't helpful to IGF-1 reduction.

    ETA For clarity, the paper above is for illustration and to anwer the lean body mass question, it isn't directly related to the TV programme other than through its lead author appearing.
    Thanks Yarwell.
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    did the program mention any long term effects of intermittent fasting? it may lose weight quickly but i'd want to know what effect it had on my hormine balance in the long run before considering it!

    the programme was about longevity and the effects that calorie restriction and fasting could have on the production of IGF-1. I recoomend trying to get hold of it if possible if you want to know more. It wasn't really about weight loss, that was just a side-effect.

    Yes that's right. The new brain cells growing was interesting. Its also perhaps an easier way for some to lose weight (if they had weight to lose) AND get all the benefits.
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    This sounds like "calorie cycling". I read up on it and I hear it's a pretty good way to break a plateau.

    With calorie cycling you don't go that low on calories, and its not just one meal. On the fast day:

    ''All subjects consumed 25% of their baseline energy needs on the “fast” day"
    (as per Yarwell's comment)

    I presume baseline energy needs is BMR so as an example, on fast day 1400 x 25% = 350 calorie meal
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    You Tube of Horizon fasting program:
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...6&amp;feature=plcp
  • barmum
    barmum Posts: 73
    I know I was advised to do the six small meals as it's less stress on the stomach and better in cases of hernia or acid reflux if thats any help? I find if there is at least some fibre in every meal then its not so bad
  • Whisperinghorse
    Whisperinghorse Posts: 202 Member
    I would be interested in the reduction of Alzheimers risk as that scares me most, yes the weightloss is great too, but having watched both my grandmothers dying in the last 10 months with it, if I could somehoe reduce the risk that'd be great.... Appreciate no human trials but it was interesting what the mice study showed.
  • mandyw30
    mandyw30 Posts: 73 Member
    I watched the programme and found it very interesting. What I'm trying to find out is, do the fasting days HAVE to be on consecutive days or any two (non consecutie days) in a week??

    This would seem to me to make a big difference.

    The presenter chose to do his fasting days on Tuesday and Thursday as they suited him best, so no they weren't on 2 consecutive days.
  • neontiiger
    neontiiger Posts: 1
    I saw the programme and rather like the idea. However, I am diabetic so not sure how I would cope with my sugar levels on the 2 fasting days. Any comments from other diabetics would be most welcome.
  • beattie1
    beattie1 Posts: 1,012 Member
    I saw the programme and rather like the idea. However, I am diabetic so not sure how I would cope with my sugar levels on the 2 fasting days. Any comments from other diabetics would be most welcome.

    I think I remember that the presenter specifically said that this way of eating was not suitable for some people - including diabetics & women who were pregnant. If you want to try it I strongly recommend that you get medical advice before you do. While fasting has been around since prehistory, this is an experimental diet. I'd let them try it out on others first if I were in your shoes.
  • littlemissnibbler
    littlemissnibbler Posts: 9 Member
    I watched the programme and found it really interesting. He did a 2 day fast and 5 day non fast.

    is similar to the "Milk Diet" advocated by Genesis for breast cancer prevention on the "fast days" you have 2 pints of semi skimmed milk 1 salty low sal drink 2 pints of other low calories drinks 1 portion of fruit 4 portions of vegetable. you can swap 1/3 pint of milk for a 200g diet yog or 100g cottage cheese. on the none milk days you just eat normally. You can make the vegetables into soups etc.

    It is also similar to JUDD
  • sunshine_gem
    sunshine_gem Posts: 390 Member
    The other thing he did say is that it may not work for everyone and that more research is needed. I'd love to know if it would work for me as the idea of significantly reducing the risk of cancer and heart disease along side getting healthier is really interesting.

    I wonder what difference exercise makes to the need to fast...

    I do IF but in a 16/8 pattern. Meaning I fast for 16 hours (overnight is easiest) and then fit my calories in the 8 hour window. It's best to workout in the fasted state as you get the most benefits from it and then you fuel your body when you break your fast. If you're not sure about it then try it for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. There's so many different methods. I've done 16/8 for about a month now and my trainer's just changed it up where on a Saturday I cheat and eat around 3500 cals and then on the Sunday I fast completely. We'll see how that goes!
  • Bus2012
    Bus2012 Posts: 13 Member
    So many opinions, so many choices I guess like everything it is about what is right for you! And being patient so you can work out what that is (something I'm not good at).

    I actually spoke to a trainer about IF (16/8) a couple of months ago and he swears by it, then i spoke to my trainer and he's not so keen. The other thing I'm unclear on is exercise whilst fasting as the program didn't really discuss it (although it did show him hill walking). Again Trainer advocate said training pre food is best but I know I won't train as well if I haven't eaten and if I don't eat after it's a very dicey and long train journey home from the gym!

    Nothing worth having is ever easy or simple is it?!

    Will be good to hear about peoples experiences it's certainly very interesting.
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    So many opinions, so many choices I guess like everything it is about what is right for you! And being patient so you can work out what that is (something I'm not good at).

    I actually spoke to a trainer about IF (16/8) a couple of months ago and he swears by it, then i spoke to my trainer and he's not so keen. The other thing I'm unclear on is exercise whilst fasting as the program didn't really discuss it (although it did show him hill walking). Again Trainer advocate said training pre food is best but I know I won't train as well if I haven't eaten and if I don't eat after it's a very dicey and long train journey home from the gym!

    Nothing worth having is ever easy or simple is it?!

    Will be good to hear about peoples experiences it's certainly very interesting.

    I think steady state walking would be fine but should save resistance training for feed days.
  • Elizadolots
    Elizadolots Posts: 178
    What was the name of this programme please?

    Here's the link for the iPlayer Eliza;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/Horizon_20122013_Eat_Fast_and_Live_Longer/

    Thanks a lot. :bigsmile:
  • essemmgee369
    essemmgee369 Posts: 6
    What was the name of this programme please?

    Here's the link for the iPlayer Eliza;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/Horizon_20122013_Eat_Fast_and_Live_Longer/

    Thanks a lot. :bigsmile:

    :) Outside of the UK it is also available on http://www.tunnelbear.com/ Apparently it is over 500 MB so follow the instructions on Tunnelbear to tweet them for a free extra 1 GB.
  • vico1612
    vico1612 Posts: 18
    also on Youtube
    http://www.youtube.com/user/BBUK0001?feature=g-all-u
  • ficklefiend
    ficklefiend Posts: 3
    I'd like to try this but I think I will make sure the eating days are my exercise days. If I don't eat quite a lot on roller derby days I find I just can't perform. Everything is slow and hard going.

    Fortunately I already do exercise day/off day with my week, more or less, so I think I might try and put two or three 500 cal days in on those rest days. I just can't stick to daily calorie restriction! I like variety.
  • Benphi91
    Benphi91 Posts: 31 Member
    I'm trying 24hr fast once a week, but I already find it difficult to reach my calorie goal... Guess I'll just see how it goes.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    I presume baseline energy needs is BMR so as an example, on fast day 1400 x 25% = 350 calorie meal
    Baseline would be maintenance - ie what you were eating before going onto a diet.

    So probably more like 1400 * 1.2 (sedentary) * 25% = 420 cals
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    I presume baseline energy needs is BMR so as an example, on fast day 1400 x 25% = 350 calorie meal
    Baseline would be maintenance - ie what you were eating before going onto a diet.

    So probably more like 1400 * 1.2 (sedentary) * 25% = 420 cals
    Thanks
  • furby1
    furby1 Posts: 114 Member
    Bump
  • barmum
    barmum Posts: 73
    I'm trying 24hr fast once a week, but I already find it difficult to reach my calorie goal... Guess I'll just see how it goes.

    I've been trying it and honestly the fast days haven't been too bad but my mood has been fluctuating which I'm not sure if thats linked :/
  • Whitezombiegirl
    Whitezombiegirl Posts: 1,042 Member
    I saw this programme and thought it was really interesting- I have been curious about fasting for ages, ever since my sister lost 3 stone in 2 months by fasting and exercising. She went from a UK size 14/16 to a UK size 8 and then got pregnant first try- so obviously it can't be too harmful, indeed quite beneficial.
  • kazzyv
    kazzyv Posts: 30 Member
    I am trying to start this this week - first fast day tomorrow. Good luck to you.
  • kazzyv
    kazzyv Posts: 30 Member
    Why not start with those health benefits why wouldn't you start as soon as possible
  • ficklefiend
    ficklefiend Posts: 3
    Well to add a little feedback- I tried a fast yesterday. I decided to combine a little from all that we have learned and ate around 400 calories between 1pm and 5pm.

    And I felt like death.

    I drank black tea/peppermint tea and water but I could feel a headache creeping up on me all day. I did a few chores round the house and watched the last of the olympics, but still I felt snappy, grumpy and tired by the evening. My guess is that because I have not cut my sugar down before attempting this, I was feeling serious sugar withdrawal.

    I don't think I could bring myself to try that again in a hurry. Now I am going to eat some breakfast and lift some weights!
  • Agator82
    Agator82 Posts: 249 Member
    If you are feeling those types of negative effects you could increase your calories to maybe 600 or 800. Also if you are looking at the 5:2 Horizons method then there is no reason not to break it up into two meals and go from there (say breakfast and dinner). I know you said you are not eager to try it again, but I can say from personal experience that fasting at any level is a mind game and that it takes time to learn how to make it easier on you body.
  • HunterKiller_wechange
    HunterKiller_wechange Posts: 369 Member
    I'm trying 24hr fast once a week, but I already find it difficult to reach my calorie goal... Guess I'll just see how it goes.[/quote}

    I was thinking of doing this also. Be interested to know how you get on. :smile:

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