I dont agree with myFitnessPal methods

Thank you for enlightening us.

BTW, taking pictures of yourself in a mirror with your iPhone is grounds for having your man card revoked.:laugh:

AWESOME response!

I recommend he does a little more homework before jumping in and not knowing how to swim.
Fact: Muscle is heavier than fat and it will always be that way. Buy a tape measure and a scale.

Muscle is not "heavier" than fat. :huh:

Oh now don't start that!! It would totally depend on how much of each you had, so saying it is not heavier without specifying an amount is no better than saying it is. Except that most people of at least average intelligence would assume the same volume making the original statement that it is heavier true.

MFP works for me :bigsmile:

Obese simply means very fat or overweight. So both fat and weight are indicators of obesity.

But I think your point is that by most population based charts someone with a lot of muscle mass can fall into the obese category, even though they have little body fat. This is true. People with a large amount of muscle mass are outliers from the general public so the population based measures may not apply.

But for most people, the charts and the scale are good indicators of obesity.

My understanding now is that...

1) Weightloss is not an accurate indicator of obesity

You are correct, weightloss is not an accurate indicator of obesity, weightloss is an indication of change of weight in a descending trajectory. Weight is the generally accepted method of diagnosing obesity when paired with BMI. Is this a perfect system certainly not, but it covers most average people. If you are so far above us then please feel free to use whatever method you prefer.

2) The only way to be certain of one's obesity is to measure body fat percentage and this involves a scale AND a tape measure

While you are correct in technicality you are missing that the accepted method of diagnosis of obesity is BMI. If you have a high BMI and have a low body fat percentage then perhaps you are not obese, but considering the BMI is a scale that is based on averages it works surprisingly well. Since we have established that you are not average you really need to go by whatever method you prefer. Personally, I like the belt hole method which shows I have gone down 5 belt holes since starting MFP.

3) Muscle mass can completely throw off your understanding of how fat you are if you are just using a scale because it will in same case make you heavier

"Completely throw off" is a bit of an exaggeration. Muscle being denser than fat (as it has been well established on this thread) can cause weight gain without actually changing your health status, that being said, health should always be viewed from a holistic perspective which should include BMI, measurements, body fat percentage, labs, etc.

In the end what I am confused by in your post is what protest do you have with MFP? MFP does not tell you to only rely on weight as a measurement (in fact it has places to measure neck, waist, and hips). Ultimately if you goal is to get healthier or stay healthier MFP is simply a tool to help guide you. It is neither a philosophy nor a diet.

If you are really unhappy with it then feel free to find another service that offers as much as MFP, I doubt you will find it. If you want to log more then do it, I always have exercise notes to document things MFP does not track. Make the tool work for you instead of complaining in the forum for the sole purpose of complaining.

I literally laughed out loud. I am always making fun of my 13year old daughter for doing this.

ok. I'll stop using it then

this

That is why BMI is bs, but do use body fat percentage calipers. I tell my clients all the time, would you rather lose 20lbs and look the same or lose 4 inches and lose 3lbs. All go with the latter.