"Starvation mode", exercise calories, dillema?

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  • paperducks
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    Wow, thank you so much for posting this! You've definitely helped and enlightened a lot of people. Thanks again!
  • TonyaBtrfly
    TonyaBtrfly Posts: 118 Member
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    Exactly! Thanks for taking the time to post that!

    :drinker:
  • cbendorf13
    cbendorf13 Posts: 87 Member
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    Exactly! Thanks for taking the time to post that!

    :drinker:

    What I was thinking
  • CoderGal
    CoderGal Posts: 6,800 Member
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    Bump so others will read.
  • CyberEd312
    CyberEd312 Posts: 3,536 Member
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    Could not agree more and Thanks for the post.... After 38 months and dropping 311 lbs. I have experienced just about every faucet of loss and stalls and gains... This in my opinion is spot on..... Thanks again..... :-)
  • NotThePest
    NotThePest Posts: 164
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    SHBoss1673,

    I had to go check your profile to see where you lived because the information you just gave is the same info I received while attending my church's Get Fit program. Since you're in Mass, and I live in Brooklyn, NY, I don't think you were there or maybe you were. Big church, and folks come from all over. But I can't see you coming from Mass every week to attend the workout and information sessions. I just posted this (see below) on My Home page.


    Yesterday @ my church's Fitness Program, before the exercise seasons, they had a Certified Nutritionist, soon to be Registered. Amongst other things, she explained why it is dangerous to try to lose more than 1 to 2 pounds a week (3,500 to 7,000 calorie deficit a week). Even if we are big overeaters, having a consistent calorie deficit of 250 to 500 calories not eaten and 250 to 500 calories burnt through exercise, basically destroys the body and will get your metabolism out of wack. Very interesting.
  • Sapporo
    Sapporo Posts: 693 Member
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    Thank you so much for taking the time to write this! I remember the old days when there was more common sense on MFP and you were on here all the time. Lately this place has been a mess, just this week I was shaking my head reading the forums and thinking we need that SHBoss or Banks (was that part of your name at some point?) guy from way back when,
    :)
  • RawVeganFlirt
    RawVeganFlirt Posts: 189 Member
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    great analysis , i agree 100%

    i'm constantly telling people NOT to eat below their bmr! it's crucial for good health and successful weight loss, and people wonder why they always gain back all their weight and plateau so often. this is why!!!
  • tangiesharp
    tangiesharp Posts: 315 Member
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    Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post.
  • monicalosesweight
    monicalosesweight Posts: 1,173 Member
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    Great post! :)
  • geekyjock76
    geekyjock76 Posts: 2,720 Member
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    great analysis , i agree 100%

    i'm constantly telling people NOT to eat below their bmr! it's crucial for good health and successful weight loss, and people wonder why they always gain back all their weight and plateau so often. this is why!!!
    You can eat below your BMR or RMR for a very brief period of time (4 to 5 days for most people of slightly above average weight) which is usually slightly over a 35% to 50% deficit. Your body will just use present fat stores for energy during this time. The problem is that: a) people resume massive deficits for too long and b)in general, resume a calorie deficit for too long - even maintaining a 200 calorie deficit for 2 straight years is going to lead to metabolic decline. I've talked to so many people who have been eating well below maintenance for 10 or more consecutive years...
  • rosied915
    rosied915 Posts: 799 Member
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    Bumping
  • karenk89
    karenk89 Posts: 31 Member
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    Bump
  • beccyleigh
    beccyleigh Posts: 847 Member
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    Thank you for posting this.

    Finding the "magic" number was the hardest part for me. I'm 6ft, female, with 41% body fat, 240lbs & a type 2 diabetic & I find as soon as I increase my calories near 2000k a day the weight piles on. I gained 15lbs in a week when I stopped doing 1600, which is just stupid as I know for a fact I didn't eat an additional 52,500 calories that week. This is down to bm's getting out of whack, everything gets stored. Bummer!

    I have experienced "starvation mode". Shortly after joining MFP I was doing 1200 cals & had lost 16lbs, all of a sudden, whilst on 1200 my weight loss stopped dead, I did cal cycling for a couple of weeks & dropped another few lbs but then that stopped working. After several months of no loss I lost interest & stopp cal counting & have gained 25lbs in the last 4 months & it took a while to get my head back in it but I am back on track again but know that I HAVE to consume at least 1600 a day up to 1800 for me to show a loss.

    Finding the sweet spot is key.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
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    Low calorie diets can be effective and preferable in some circumstances so I imagine it's also infuriating for those people to read posts like this. Maybe studies like these are why doctors prescribe very low calorie diets and don't seem to fear "starvation mode" in their obese patients? This is what a quick search turned up:
    VLCD compliance and lean body mass.

    Abstract

    Very low calorie diets (VLCD) have many advantages, as they are inexpensive, safe and easy to comply with, and give rapid and encouraging weight loss. On the other hand, many patients complain of hunger and constipation. We have shown that these drawbacks can be reduced by the supplementation of 30 g of dietary fibre to VLCD. By the use of a VLCD which provides approximately 60 g of protein for women and approximately 70 g for men, the dietary regimen is safe and no excessive loss of lean body mass seems to occur during VLCD in obese patients. However, the changes in body composition that may occur after cycles of weight loss and regain have not been clarified. After weight cycles with weight losses obtained by conventional diets, obese women have lower lean body mass than obese non-dieting controls. Hence, more information about the changes in body composition during dieting on conventional diets and VLCD are needed.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2559044
    Factors influencing body composition during very-low-calorie diets.

    Abstract

    Apparent body composition changes with weight loss on very-low-calorie diet (VLCD) can depend on the method of fat-free mass estimation. In this report the implications of differences in measurement by direct versus indirect methods are examined. The nitrogen sparing and protein economy associated with ketosis is relevant and results of clinical trials with diets of varying composition are presented. The analytical findings of a multicenter, multimethod long-term VLCD study illustrate protein and metabolic conservation during VLCD. Protein losses, by total body nitrogen, over 10 wk dieting, independent of body mass index, were 4.75% of weight lost, as conservatively expected from obesity tissue reduction with no degradation of total energy expenditure. The implications of utilization of glycogen (water and potassium release) in interpretation of diet success and of body compositional change is evaluated. Evidence is presented that ultimate compositional changes with weight change may be individually specific and that body composition may be predicted from weight considerations alone.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1615887
    Reduction of body mass and change in body composition on a very low calorie diet.

    Abstract

    The quality of weight loss was estimated during a very low calorie diet (VLCD) weight-reducing regime by determining the body composition every second week using near-infra-red interactance (NII). The study was performed on 127 overweight volunteers, aged 18-72 years, who, for eight consecutive weeks, used a VLCD to lose weight. Mean weight reduction was 12.7 kg (12.6% of initial weight). Mean body fat (BF) loss was 9.5 kg (23.8% of initial BF), which constitutes 75% of the weight loss. Mean reduction in lean body mass (LBM) was 3.2 kg (5.2% of initial LBM). We found no correlation between initial body mass index (BMI) and loss of LBM, or between initial body composition and weight loss. Weight reduction observed in this study is mainly due to reduction in body fat, and the loss of LBM is considered not to be larger than acceptable.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8383636

    If you're concerned about the loss of lean body mass that occurs with dieting, lift weights.
    Effects of resistance vs. aerobic training combined with an 800 calorie liquid diet on lean body mass and resting metabolic rate.

    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:

    Utilization of very-low-calorie diets (VLCD) for weight loss results in loss of lean body weight (LBW) and a decrease in resting metabolic rate (RMR). The addition of aerobic exercise does not prevent this. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of intensive, high volume resistance training combined with a VLCD on these parameters.
    METHODS:

    Twenty subjects (17 women, three men), mean age 38 years, were randomly assigned to either standard treatment control plus diet (C+D), n = 10, or resistance exercise plus diet (R+D), n = 10. Both groups consumed 800 kcal/day liquid formula diets for 12 weeks. The C+D group exercised 1 hour four times/week by walking, biking or stair climbing. The R+D group performed resistance training 3 days/week at 10 stations increasing from two sets of 8 to 15 repetitions to four sets of 8 to 15 repetitions by 12 weeks. Groups were similar at baseline with respect to weight, body composition, aerobic capacity, and resting metabolic rate.
    RESULTS:

    Maximum oxygen consumption (Max VO2) increased significantly (p<0.05) but equally in both groups. Body weight decreased significantly more (p<0.01) in C+D than R+D. The C+D group lost a significant (p<0.05) amount of LBW (51 to 47 kg). No decrease in LBW was observed in R+D. In addition, R+D had an increase (p<0.05) in RMR O2 ml/kg/min (2.6 to 3.1). The 24 hour RMR decreased (p<0.05) in the C+D group.
    CONCLUSION:

    The addition of an intensive, high volume resistance training program resulted in preservation of LBW and RMR during weight loss with a VLCD.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,962 Member
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    Blast from the past!

    *sniff - another great post by Banks, one of my first buddies here. :largequantitiesofflowersforyou:

    Nice to see someone lit your fire.
  • ThinMint_Stac
    ThinMint_Stac Posts: 59 Member
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    Love it!!! Bump Some peeps just don't get it:)
  • NWCountryGal
    NWCountryGal Posts: 1,992 Member
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    Ditto! I just naturally go up and down in my calories but try to stay within a reasonable range of my goals. I can't be perfect on the numbers each day so I don't try, nor do I want to ****er over cals when I know if I stay active and eat whole, healthy foods most of the time, I will get to a healthy size.
    Thanx Boss!

    So what you are saying is:

    Eat like a person should eat and move like a person should move and we wont have excess fat?
    This sounds soooooo familiar!
    =D
  • snowbab
    snowbab Posts: 192 Member
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    So much truth here and so well written. Thank you! Bump :)
  • Shara126
    Shara126 Posts: 144 Member
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    Well said.

    bump for later