build muscle on calorie deficit?
bb_tiu
Posts: 24
Hey guys! I've read that you need to be at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. If I am following MFP guidelines and eating at a deficit but eating at least 1 gram of protein for each lb of body weight can I still build muscle?
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Replies
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Hey guys! I've read that you need to be at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. If I am following MFP guidelines and eating at a deficit but eating at least 1 gram of protein for each lb of body weight can I still build muscle?
Yes you can. Many people on here will tell you otherwise but they are flat out wrong.0 -
Read everything you can, everywhere you can and learn what's possible. Try going to Ask.com and asking that same question or a shorter version of it and read the top 5 answers that aren't opinions.0
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Age makes a difference to!0
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Hey guys! I've read that you need to be at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. If I am following MFP guidelines and eating at a deficit but eating at least 1 gram of protein for each lb of body weight can I still build muscle?
Yes you can. Many people on here will tell you otherwise but they are flat out wrong.
Care to elaborate and provide sources?
I would like to know.0 -
There are exceptions to the rule. If you are obese, if you are new to lifting, are a few cases where you can build muscle but for the majority of the rest, you need to be in a calorie surplus. Now eating enough protein and eating in a calorie deficit will help you maintain lean body mass while losing body fat which will expose the underlying muscle.... Best of Luck.... :-)0
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There are 3 conditions that would allow building muscle on a deficit:
1) Steroids
2) Newbie Gains
3) Very overweight
and one possibility with very strict calorie cycling to maximize gains.
Newbie gains are minimal and short lived, I honestly don't know much about the very overweight condition except that it's not much and probably won't be noticeable with all the extra fat, and I'm going to assume you're not looking in to steroids. So, basically you can't build muscle on a deficit- but the question becomes- does it matter?
I am lazy so I'm copying what I wrote in another thread, but it all applies:
It's a common misconception that if you can't build new muscle on a deficit, then there's no point in lifting- but the truth is you won't know the difference between gaining muscle or not while lifting on a deficit- especially if you're new to it. The common goals are increased muscle tone and firmness, increased strength, increased metabolism, increased fat loss, increased bone density, feeling bada$$, and looking hot. You can achieve ALL of those goals without packing on any NEW muscle tissue. Most people (women in particular) have all the muscle you need to achieve those goals already, and by using neuromuscular adaptation (which is the primary source of gains whether you're in a deficit or not at the beginning) you train your CNS system to use the muscle that's already there. It's win-win-win-win-win. You'll feel like you're gaining muscle whether you are or not- so what does it matter, really?0 -
There are 3 conditions that would allow building muscle on a deficit:
1) Steroids
2) Newbie Gains
3) Very overweight
and one possibility with very strict calorie cycling to maximize gains.
Newbie gains are minimal and short lived, I honestly don't know much about the very overweight condition except that it's not much and probably won't be noticeable with all the extra fat, and I'm going to assume you're not looking in to steroids. So, basically you can't build muscle on a deficit- but the question becomes- does it matter?
I am lazy so I'm copying what I wrote in another thread, but it all applies:
It's a common misconception that if you can't build new muscle on a deficit, then there's no point in lifting- but the truth is you won't know the difference between gaining muscle or not while lifting on a deficit- especially if you're new to it. The common goals are increased muscle tone and firmness, increased strength, increased metabolism, increased fat loss, increased bone density, feeling bada$$, and looking hot. You can achieve ALL of those goals without packing on any NEW muscle tissue. Most people (women in particular) have all the muscle you need to achieve those goals already, and by using neuromuscular adaptation (which is the primary source of gains whether you're in a deficit or not at the beginning) you train your CNS system to use the muscle that's already there. It's win-win-win-win-win. You'll feel like you're gaining muscle whether you are or not- so what does it matter, really?
This to the nth degree.0 -
Question is how much muscle, and what situation? And what gender? There are situations where you might (refraining from saying can) build on a deficit. Such as when you are 15-20 and your hormones are in the best level they will be in your life. We are talking about males here mostly. Building muscle isn't something you can do naturally with ease.
In high school we had female wrestlers who happen to go through the rigorous strength training routines and I never recall one of them building a great deal of muscle. Through the year regardless of what they were eating or were not. Same thing happen with some males that had a body closer to a person with a really good metabolism. They gained minimal to acceptable muscle and they went through the same rigorous training that we did as well. There were others who gained some pretty good muscle as a freshmen or sophomore starting to lift weight for the first time with no problem and made some really good gains their first year. Genetics play a strong role bottom line regardless how you eat. We are talking about guys 14-17 of course, and gals.
This is a controversial topic also because water weight can also be another factor that hides real lean muscle mass growth. In the end most people who are on a calorie deficit are there to lose fat/weight. Now to answer your question, can you gain muscle while on a deficit? Directly with goals where you can set them and gain an expected amount of muscle? Absolutely not! Indirectly? Possible if the circumstances are in your favor. Possible if you are taking AAS. Even while taking AAS it is still an indirect effect.
This question has been asked before. Not all people who start lifting out of nowhere gain any acceptable amount of muscle either. If that was the case then I would be seeing a bunch of built people in my gym. Many look the same after a year lol.0 -
There are 3 conditions that would allow building muscle on a deficit:
1) Steroids
2) Newbie Gains
3) Very overweight
and one possibility with very strict calorie cycling to maximize gains.
Newbie gains are minimal and short lived, I honestly don't know much about the very overweight condition except that it's not much and probably won't be noticeable with all the extra fat, and I'm going to assume you're not looking in to steroids. So, basically you can't build muscle on a deficit- but the question becomes- does it matter?
I am lazy so I'm copying what I wrote in another thread, but it all applies:
It's a common misconception that if you can't build new muscle on a deficit, then there's no point in lifting- but the truth is you won't know the difference between gaining muscle or not while lifting on a deficit- especially if you're new to it. The common goals are increased muscle tone and firmness, increased strength, increased metabolism, increased fat loss, increased bone density, feeling bada$$, and looking hot. You can achieve ALL of those goals without packing on any NEW muscle tissue. Most people (women in particular) have all the muscle you need to achieve those goals already, and by using neuromuscular adaptation (which is the primary source of gains whether you're in a deficit or not at the beginning) you train your CNS system to use the muscle that's already there. It's win-win-win-win-win. You'll feel like you're gaining muscle whether you are or not- so what does it matter, really?
Correct. Do not listen to idiots who try to tell you otherwise.0 -
You can absolutely build muscle on a calorie deficit, but not for a long time. If you're just getting into weight training, you'll get some decent results up to 6 months, give or take. It also depends on how restrictive your diet is. You should try not to exceed a deficit of 500 calories if you're getting into weight training. The most important factors for putting on some muscle are:
-consistent training (full body workouts divided into separate days for different muscle groups)
-progressive training (increase weight and effort week to week)
-increase water consumption (depends on your height/weight but at least 64 ounces, more if you need it, less on days off if you can't drink it all)
-plenty of rest/recovery (you can hit the gym 5-7 days a week if you have it in you, but don't hit the same muscles for at least 4 days before returning to them, make sure you get enough sleep too, good for hormones, good for growth and recovery)
You don't need gobs of protein or supplements. Under optimal conditions the human body can't really synthesize more than a pound of muscle per week depending on the persons size of course. And that will only happen in the beginning. Incorporate your entire body in your weight training. That doesn't mean all at once, but throughout the week. This will increase the release of hormones you need to build muscle, and it will also help to keep your from over/under developing muscle or muscle groups which can have a negative effect over long term.
This might all sound like a lot but just getting into the gym and lifting consistently is the thing to do. Find what works for you. Some weeks you won't feel like there's a difference, some weeks you just see a muscle that wasn't there last time. Just give it a good 3 months. It takes time for the body to change. And don't get discouraged, it is a little harder for females to put on the muscle. Less testosterone, which is powerful hormone for growth. And don't worry about getting to big, because its a lot of work and takes a good amount of time.
But anyways, after a while you'll need to get into a calorie surplus, but if you're trying to burn fat also, your body will use that as the extra energy it needs to grow muscle. When you're out of excessive fat reserves you might want to start eating extra calories, but only 250 extra a day to start. Don't play into the bulking hype. If you're just starting out, you have a long time before you need to worry about that. Nothing to it but to do it!0 -
I'm no expert but it's working for me!0
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AMAZING!!! I like the sounds of that!! Thanks!0
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Thanks everyone thats really encouraging. I am 23 and about 10 - 15 lbs to lose and just starting to lift weights and increase protein so really hoping to tighten up and notice a difference! Thanks all
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I know from experience that one can gain strength on a calorie deficit. Cannot necessarily say that it was due to muscle mass increase or not. One would think if you are able to maintain strong protein intake, that would count for something... Of course everything in balance.0
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You can absolutely build muscle on a calorie deficit, but not for a long time. If you're just getting into weight training, you'll get some decent results up to 6 months, give or take. It also depends on how restrictive your diet is. You should try not to exceed a deficit of 500 calories if you're getting into weight training. The most important factors for putting on some muscle are:
-consistent training (full body workouts divided into separate days for different muscle groups)
-progressive training (increase weight and effort week to week)
-increase water consumption (depends on your height/weight but at least 64 ounces, more if you need it, less on days off if you can't drink it all)
-plenty of rest/recovery (you can hit the gym 5-7 days a week if you have it in you, but don't hit the same muscles for at least 4 days before returning to them, make sure you get enough sleep too, good for hormones, good for growth and recovery)
You don't need gobs of protein or supplements. Under optimal conditions the human body can't really synthesize more than a pound of muscle per week depending on the persons size of course. And that will only happen in the beginning. Incorporate your entire body in your weight training. That doesn't mean all at once, but throughout the week. This will increase the release of hormones you need to build muscle, and it will also help to keep your from over/under developing muscle or muscle groups which can have a negative effect over long term.
This might all sound like a lot but just getting into the gym and lifting consistently is the thing to do. Find what works for you. Some weeks you won't feel like there's a difference, some weeks you just see a muscle that wasn't there last time. Just give it a good 3 months. It takes time for the body to change. And don't get discouraged, it is a little harder for females to put on the muscle. Less testosterone, which is powerful hormone for growth. And don't worry about getting to big, because its a lot of work and takes a good amount of time.
But anyways, after a while you'll need to get into a calorie surplus, but if you're trying to burn fat also, your body will use that as the extra energy it needs to grow muscle. When you're out of excessive fat reserves you might want to start eating extra calories, but only 250 extra a day to start. Don't play into the bulking hype. If you're just starting out, you have a long time before you need to worry about that. Nothing to it but to do it!
One of the best written posts I have seen on this subject. Makes a LOT of sense...0 -
I know from experience that one can gain strength on a calorie deficit. Cannot necessarily say that it was due to muscle mass increase or not. One would think if you are able to maintain strong protein intake, that would count for something... Of course everything in balance.
The strength gains are a result of Neuromuscular Adaptations- they're not necessarily indicative of muscle growth. An adequate supply of protein prevents muscle loss. Generally the recommendation for preventing muscle loss while strength training on a deficit is 1gm/pound LBM (lean body mass).0 -
Yes you can. Many people on here will tell you otherwise but they are flat out wrong.
Care to elaborate and provide sources?
I would like to know.
Google is your friend. Try typing "Lose fat gain muscle study" in the search bar (without the quotes) and you will get a good start. You will see there have been a BOATLOAD of studies that have proven you can build muscle while simultaneously burning fat.
Take, for example, the 1996 Ballor study. People cite this study all the time because the aerobic group lost more "weight" than the weight training group so they claim "cardio is better than strength for weight loss". If you actually LOOK at the numbers, you will see that the cardio group 1.8 kg of fat but also lost 0.6 kg of lean mass. If you look at the strength training group, you will see they didn't lose as much "weight" because, while they lost lost 1.2 kg of fat, they GAINED 1.5 kg of lean mass. Yup, they gained muscle while burning fat.
Many times the study is not about losing fat while gaining muscle, but that is the end result. Like the one above, here are a couple more:
This one was done on police officers comparing whey to casein : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10838463
Here is one comparing milk to a carb drink post workout: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19997019
Common thread? The conclusions show fat loss plus lean mass (muscle) gains.
I could go on and on but, in reality, it is silly since there is plenty of science to back it up. Please note, you would not want to be on a crazy deficit if you are working toward body confirmation changes. Also, if you are an elite athlete, you are not going to get anywhere trying to do something like this.
Also, if you want to maximize it, you might want to look into calorie cycling or even macronutrient timing. I don't do any cycling so I can't tell you if that stuff is backed by science (although it makes logical sense to me). The premise is something like this: Your body does not grow based on your weekly caloric target (or even daily). Your body uses calories for a purpose and also burns fat when it needs to. So, if you supply calories when your muscles need to 1) exert energy and 2) repair after exertion you should be able to grow your muscles. At other times during the day/week you stay at a calorie deficit so your body burns fat as fuel. Again, I have never looked into the science of cycling so I won't comment to it being a fact but it might be something you want to look into.
Conclusion about building muscle while burning fat -- Yes, it can be done and is backed by science.0 -
Maybe, if you're new to lifting.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html0 -
Cosigning, then qft.There are 3 conditions that would allow building muscle on a deficit:
1) Steroids
2) Newbie Gains
3) Very overweight
and one possibility with very strict calorie cycling to maximize gains.
Newbie gains are minimal and short lived, I honestly don't know much about the very overweight condition except that it's not much and probably won't be noticeable with all the extra fat, and I'm going to assume you're not looking in to steroids. So, basically you can't build muscle on a deficit- but the question becomes- does it matter?
I am lazy so I'm copying what I wrote in another thread, but it all applies:
It's a common misconception that if you can't build new muscle on a deficit, then there's no point in lifting- but the truth is you won't know the difference between gaining muscle or not while lifting on a deficit- especially if you're new to it. The common goals are increased muscle tone and firmness, increased strength, increased metabolism, increased fat loss, increased bone density, feeling bada$$, and looking hot. You can achieve ALL of those goals without packing on any NEW muscle tissue. Most people (women in particular) have all the muscle you need to achieve those goals already, and by using neuromuscular adaptation (which is the primary source of gains whether you're in a deficit or not at the beginning) you train your CNS system to use the muscle that's already there. It's win-win-win-win-win. You'll feel like you're gaining muscle whether you are or not- so what does it matter, really?0 -
Yes you can. I am eating a significant deficit, am not new to lifting, and am not overweight (actually i am classified as underweight) and I am gaining muscle. I guess its just a personal thing depending on individual cases. I only have to look at a weight and I gain muscle- have always been like it. I am young, so may have youth on my side?0
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What makes you think you're gaining muscle? Its very difficult to tell that without sophisticated testing. And why are you eating at a significant deficit if you're underweight?Yes you can. I am eating a significant deficit, am not new to lifting, and am not overweight (actually i am classified as underweight) and I am gaining muscle. I guess its just a personal thing depending on individual cases. I only have to look at a weight and I gain muscle- have always been like it. I am young, so may have youth on my side?0 -
Let me throw a few more things out there too. You need to have realistic goals as far as adding muscle. 12 pounds in a year is significant! That can be done in your first year if you have the time to spend in the gym and you're doing everything you need to do out of the gym. Year after year it becomes increasingly hard to add more muscle.
Don't let the body building hype discourage you from doing what you're doing. You're not adding insane muscle like they advertise on TV or the internet. Bodybuilders are actually considered beginners for at least a year of training, I would say more like 2. So when someone says only beginners can do it, you have a good two year window for that!
Your first few months may be weird. You won't know if you're losing fat or adding muscle because the scale will be playing tricks with you. More than likely you'll be doing both so you may think nothings happening, but it is. Also the increased water intake may add more weight to the scale because most people are generally not optimally hydrated to begin with. Once your nervous system gets acquainted with resistance training you'll hit your stride. You need time for your body to adjust before it can start adding optimal muscle. It needs to strengthen bones, ligaments, veins and other things to make sure it can handle the stress before adding muscle. The body is smart, it will handle everything for you.
Just give it what it needs to do it, i.e. rest, proper nutrition, water, and consistent stress (weights).
I'd also recommend a personal trainer in the beginning. They can offer encouragement and PROPER TECHNIQUE! I stress that because lifting wrong can hurt you and nothing throws a wrench into muscle building quite like an injury. It would be good to get acquainted with why you lift, what you lift and how you lift.
Sorry, my point was, I hate when I see people give up or get discouraged because of a false preconception they've had about how fast and easy it is to get the results some 10-15+ year bodybuilding veteran has, and because he chugs protein shakes out of an oil drum. The only thing that will get you results is progressive consistency.0 -
Let me throw a few more things out there too. You need to have realistic goals as far as adding muscle. 12 pounds in a year is significant! That can be done in your first year if you have the time to spend in the gym and you're doing everything you need to do out of the gym. Year after year it becomes increasingly hard to add more muscle.
Don't let the body building hype discourage you from doing what you're doing. You're not adding insane muscle like they advertise on TV or the internet. Bodybuilders are actually considered beginners for at least a year of training, I would say more like 2. So when someone says only beginners can do it, you have a good two year window for that!
Your first few months may be weird. You won't know if you're losing fat or adding muscle because the scale will be playing tricks with you. More than likely you'll be doing both so you may think nothings happening, but it is. Also the increased water intake may add more weight to the scale because most people are generally not optimally hydrated to begin with. Once your nervous system gets acquainted with resistance training you'll hit your stride. You need time for your body to adjust before it can start adding optimal muscle. It needs to strengthen bones, ligaments, veins and other things to make sure it can handle the stress before adding muscle. The body is smart, it will handle everything for you.
Just give it what it needs to do it, i.e. rest, proper nutrition, water, and consistent stress (weights).
I'd also recommend a personal trainer in the beginning. They can offer encouragement and PROPER TECHNIQUE! I stress that because lifting wrong can hurt you and nothing throws a wrench into muscle building quite like an injury. It would be good to get acquainted with why you lift, what you lift and how you lift.
Sorry, my point was, I hate when I see people give up or get discouraged because of a false preconception they've had about how fast and easy it is to get the results some 10-15+ year bodybuilding veteran has, and because he chugs protein shakes out of an oil drum. The only thing that will get you results is progressive consistency.
Not to mention the fact that many elite body builders/fitness models and movie starts who's bodies we aspire to are usually doing more than "chugging protein" and usually shooting 400mg in their glutes every 7 days0 -
You can absolutely build muscle on a calorie deficit, but not for a long time. If you're just getting into weight training, you'll get some decent results up to 6 months, give or take. It also depends on how restrictive your diet is. You should try not to exceed a deficit of 500 calories if you're getting into weight training. The most important factors for putting on some muscle are:
-consistent training (full body workouts divided into separate days for different muscle groups)
-progressive training (increase weight and effort week to week)
-increase water consumption (depends on your height/weight but at least 64 ounces, more if you need it, less on days off if you can't drink it all)
-plenty of rest/recovery (you can hit the gym 5-7 days a week if you have it in you, but don't hit the same muscles for at least 4 days before returning to them, make sure you get enough sleep too, good for hormones, good for growth and recovery)
You don't need gobs of protein or supplements. Under optimal conditions the human body can't really synthesize more than a pound of muscle per week depending on the persons size of course. And that will only happen in the beginning. Incorporate your entire body in your weight training. That doesn't mean all at once, but throughout the week. This will increase the release of hormones you need to build muscle, and it will also help to keep your from over/under developing muscle or muscle groups which can have a negative effect over long term.
This might all sound like a lot but just getting into the gym and lifting consistently is the thing to do. Find what works for you. Some weeks you won't feel like there's a difference, some weeks you just see a muscle that wasn't there last time. Just give it a good 3 months. It takes time for the body to change. And don't get discouraged, it is a little harder for females to put on the muscle. Less testosterone, which is powerful hormone for growth. And don't worry about getting to big, because its a lot of work and takes a good amount of time.
But anyways, after a while you'll need to get into a calorie surplus, but if you're trying to burn fat also, your body will use that as the extra energy it needs to grow muscle. When you're out of excessive fat reserves you might want to start eating extra calories, but only 250 extra a day to start. Don't play into the bulking hype. If you're just starting out, you have a long time before you need to worry about that. Nothing to it but to do it!
Thanks monte, I needed that too.0 -
Short answer - No
Longer answer - Try it for yourself and tell us what happens0 -
I lost 50 lbs over the past year and made consistent muscle and strength gains over the entire period. Generally speaking, building muscle on a caloric deficit is difficult, especially if you are already relatively lean. However, it can be done in the following scenarios:
1) You are new to weight training;
2) You are returning to weight training after a layoff; or
3) You have a high percentage of body fat.
In my case, I was both returning to weight training after a layoff and I had a high percentage of body fat. If you have a significant amount of weight to lose, I'd recommend training like you want to get bigger, while eating like you want to get smaller. Just make sure to eat plenty of protein and don't try to lose the weight too quickly. Aim to lose one to two pounds per week at the most.0 -
No. A small amount if you are a newbie or really overweight. Or maybe if you are on steroids. But for most people, no. If you are serious about gaining muscle, you should be in a surplus.0
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I lost 50 lbs over the past year and made consistent muscle and strength gains over the entire period. Generally speaking, building muscle on a caloric deficit is difficult, especially if you are already relatively lean. However, it can be done in the following scenarios:
1) You are new to weight training;
2) You are returning to weight training after a layoff; or
3) You have a high percentage of body fat.
In my case, I was both returning to weight training after a layoff and I had a high percentage of body fat. If you have a significant amount of weight to lose, I'd recommend training like you want to get bigger, while eating like you want to get smaller. Just make sure to eat plenty of protein and don't try to lose the weight too quickly. Aim to lose one to two pounds per week at the most.
I really like this phrase......I think I may steal it...hope you don't mind!0 -
Ok.
It is entirely possible to increase muscle mass whilst losing fat. It's not easy by any means, and requires careful monitoring of your diet and training.
If you're happy with slow weight loss (read 0.5lb/week) then you actually can consistently gain lean mass as you are not operating at a heavy deficit, but it requires plenty of training and also your splits when it comes to the calories you take in must be bang on.
A common number that most people quote is 1g/lb bodyweight minimum to see any kinds of gains - which is probably what I would recommend. Any more than that, and there is quite a bit of research that has seemed to point at an upper absorption limit for protein contrary to what most supplement suppliers will say, which also seems to tally with research I have done on a personal level. As for your other splits, it's pretty much up to you how you want to split them. Some people go high protein, high fat, low carb - others do vice versa, and others do a 60/40 split between carbs and fats.
The old saying "Muscles aren't grown in the gym, they're grown in the kitchen" is a very apt phrase. You can train as hard as you like, but if you don't supply your body with the right stuff you will come undone pretty quickly.
What you'll also find is if you run your diet in cycles (so say 4 weeks at a deficit, 1 week at maintenance whilst still doing the same training) you will continue to get muscular gains, and avoid burning out.0 -
It's tough, but doable. Check out the website leangains. It's all about the very idea of gaining muscle while eating on a weekly caloric deficit.
In a nutshell, on your training days you eat over maintenance. Then on your non training days, you eat under maintenance. This adds up to a weekly caloric deficit, although your body is still fueled for muscle growth when it needs it most - post workout.0
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